Izhuark

I did not wanted to do this on my first NOC in a long time but the irl concern became too important and I need a break from the internet so i'm requesting a sub out. I just want to point out it's not because i'm discouraged from the game even if it happened a lot in the past. Sorry again. Have fun evryone. Requesting a Sub out

Okay read Elie's full post again and it indeed make no sense. I guess i was just biased because him towreading me was a huge part of his post (god i'm so bad). His justifications for his reads are really weak (taking rvs joke seriously into account at this point ? I heard that rvs was elie favourite part of mafia but i think there was enough interaction to have more groundings) and doesn't had anything to the state of this day 2 ##Vote : Elieson

Really ? I actually don't know how elieson noc, i don't think I read or played a game with him before. Care to explain this in more details?

Shin the least thing before sheeping prim's vote on me would be to make a comment on the question i asked you litteraly the moment i said i would have a hiatus. The Shin/Cam argument make me more confident that my reads on cam D1 don't stand anymore. I still think refa is one of the most consistent player, his reads are those that make the most senses to me as of now. Elie post seemed strongly town to me and i don't want to pressure him more. ##Unvote the game evolved in a way that I have really a hard time making sense of. The post are way more dense lately than the rest of the game and my scumreads are fleeing like waters. That said the case on me don't bother me so much since i flaked hard. I will continue reading the thread again until I find something that bother me.

Ugh IRL sucks. Can't i upload my mind into the internet ? (Terrible idea actually) More seriously i had important irl matters and my mind wasn't really into mafia mind state ( and still is not to be honest but i will try my best) really sorry. Re reading the last three pages right now.

In the eimm that*

I am half there, there was just a problem (an actual problem not a game problem) eimm thzt really concerned me and i want to be sure all is right. So if you can put what you want from me in the same post shin it will help me respond to it easily once i can fully concentrate on noc again.

Well i'm not sure about this. Apparently it's an thing that happened before for you but you made a point here by saying scum buddies could have coached you. (But then why would you say that like this ?) I disagree completely with the second point though because i'm not voting elieson to have reads on you. I want the reads to be out of pressuring when you interact with cases that involves neither of us. (We saw what happened last day when we confronted each other and i would prefer to avoid it happening a third time.) So that i can confirm or not my previous reads on you while avoiding emotional bias.

Because i said it myself i wanted to see more of your posts and interaction before getting back to your case. I found the reasoning of your first D2 post good where Elieson barely posted something meaningful.

@commie scum Wait you used Roleblock without any knowledge of the Power roles except prims number claim ? Even if you might block the night kill there more chance to hinder town roles. I guess both strategies are good but it might backfire badly if your using it blind.

I think a list post is the best to organise my thoughts. Prims- His reads were pertinent except the gaius case that i did not really understand but since the main wagons where on me at the time it would have been way easier to scum to choose one of us. Boron- Ouch the comment on me hurt but i respect the honesty. The fact that she sticked from after the RVS to the end of D1without upher case seemed a bit odd like pointed out Junko but that could be explained by her bias. The rest of her interactions where fine to me and I'll wait to see more of them this day before giving an opinion on her. Cam- My stance from D1 still stand but his few last post are way more level headed and coherent, This sudden change from spamposting that take me aback honestly. I'm a bit more cautious on this one and i still think's he's scummy but i'm a bit less confident on this case. Paper Blade- I really don't know what to make out of him. He has not posted that much and his interactions are pretty few the only persons that read him D1 were Elieson who voted him out of nowhere just before deadline and me for weak reasons after RVS. The rest seems just to not really be productive. Refa- I personally thought refa's actions were fine D1 he's still clearly one of those who have been the more active and most his reads were consistent. The only dubious part would be the gaius vote but deadline approached and he made clear he was not up for lynching cam or me. Elieson- he clearly caught a severe case of eimming and should come back in the game quickly. His vote just before deadline really appeared out of nowhere and was really off topic. This is just weird to me and i don't se how this kind of comportement can be pro town. Shin- if we except his RVS he proved to be one of the most productive player mid to late D1 and made pertinent comments on the different cases. His D2 post are top notch. SB- I don't know how to read SB period but he feels town to me. He's action at rvs were good call and was definitely the most consistent on his cases. Junko- Turbo sub to the rescue ! You did more on D2 than Elie, Gaius, Paperblade and Zeonth on D1 and that's really impressive. I want to see a bit more of your interaction but that's some pro subbing right here. Town reads : Shin, SB, Prims, Refa Null-town : Junko, Boron Null-scum : Paperblade Scum : Cam, Elieson I want to see him interact a little before updating or abandonning my cam case. In the meantime i will follow boron on the Elieson case, he did nothing for town and none of his action D1 made sense to me. ##Vote : Elieson

The pact is sealed.

Yeah I know it's a joke on the fact that nobody knows the deadline and that he's not updating votals often. x)

Seriously, after reading his posts again i'm not really that up on a gaius lynch... sure he's globally inactive and didn't produce much content but his few points were fair and don't seem really scummy to me. It's more like he's more concenteating on eimm and real life than really lurking. The same thing could be said on Elieson, Zeonth and Marth but they produced even less content than him.

Ok, i got back, sorry i was distracted by eimm talk will read gaius's post again to expand my thoughts on him.

Okay i really need to sleep for now and i'm not sure i will be here on deadline. I don't want to jump on the gaius wagon so quickly but i don't have anything against it. Cheers.

@Refa Sorry about that it was supposed to be more on Cam's rebuttal in your vote but it inevitably bleed on yours in the process.

1. So what did both us did ? Argue on each other case and on semantic, your other interactions were minor at best. I wont say that you started it but your at least as much to blame than me on this so don't make it look like it's all my fault. 2.We already had this discussion for me making no sense as town is at least as scummy as making sense for scum if not more. I told you why i thouht it made sense as scummy but you ignored it, like 70% of my posts anyway. 3. Your actual read on me evolved so little since that they could seriously be from ED1 it would be the same. 4. He says when voting on one of the main wagons. There are a lot of other person that actually consider me as a viable lynch target like shin or prims, BBM even said a lynch on me wouldn't bother him. So yeah scum would gain nothing from voting excep lynching town of course but what scum would want to do that ? @Prims I had no other reads other than a minor read on paperblade. I need to read gaius posts again to confirm this but i would not be against his lynch he did nothing to help town and his overall inactivity doesn't help.

1. I'm not defending myself and i never was. Sure i freaked when you jumped on me after my paperblade vote, but i was not defending myself but my reasoning. It was akward yes but saying defending my reasoning is like defending my self is dubious as best. 2. So you either don't read me at all or don't understand my points to say that. If you want me to clarify ask me to but don't try to contradict me if you don't even get my point. 3.Yes, Paperblade seemed scummy to me for jumping on SB for no real reason other than shin meta. It's way too early to say if it affects Shin or not but it could lead to association reads eventually. 4. I tried to make my own reads and it happened to coincide with other people. Even if i my post may seem hard to understand i think i at least reinforced a bit your case while bringing some older posts to illustrate it. I don't think arguing over semantic is useless especially if scum try to use it wrong to make it look like they are scum hunting when they basically do a whole lot of nothing and you are the other 50% of those argument remember? So i don't think you are well placed to criticise me on this one. Yeah but it doesn't make your vote suspicious either when it actually had little to back it up. Sure it not beneficial as town and that's the point. Look at point 3. of my last post again I don't think that less than 24 hour before the deadline we are still in ED1 and you ED1 reads are all but relevant anymore. Paper blade wich made me first wagon ex equo.

1.The fact that you ignored 90% of my post to concentrate on a part that can be easily dismissed is no different to me than cutting down the discussion. 2. I'm not saying that you don't read me has scum but that nothing to back it up except ED1 confusion and vague suspicion. 3.Well i'm well known for my lack of confidence, stressing under the pressure and overall bad play votes so keeping a vote on me to force me to spoof under pressure bringing vote upon my head seems a good strategy especially since i rapidly grew into a wagon. 4. Simple, eluding even more the different reasons you have to keep your vote on me making it seems it's totally normal.

For the third time i don't think refa ever meant that BBM was scum but that i was bothering him. Even then there never really was a real SB wagon (wich you seem to think a lot) so scum!BBM could have a lot of reasons to change his vote like trying to get a better case than the one on SB that was pretty weak anyway. But if we think as town if we ignore the explanation that refa missed there was not a lot of reasons for BBM to change vote on you wich is easy to understand why it would not necessarily be scummy but bothering

No that's not the case. It's not because town can make something scummy than they shouldn't be pointed down on it. But the possibility of town doing a scummy thing should not be dismissed at the same time. The thing is that refa never said BBM was scum but that it bothered him that he change his vote so quickly (personally i read here that town!BBM would be unlikely to do that not that Scum!BBM woul do that wich once again is a totally different reasoning)

Well then don't ask for it, you make an argument and i respond to it at the best of my abilities.

It's two way of catching scum but it's two widely different reasoning that require two different mindset. You can't say than "What BBM as done is scummy because it's what scum want." and "What BBM as done is scummy because it's something town would have no reason to do." is the same thing. There are a lot of case when a town reasoning can overlap with a scum one. Even if it's more easy to think them as binary (something is scum or is'nt) this is not actually the case and there are a lot of reasons for town to do something that may seems scummy.

The thing is that discussing what scum!BBM want to do is pointless since scum!BBM will do is best to seem town and avoid to seem balantly scum. What's more interesting and worth of scum reading is what town!BBM would not do. And even if he made a mistake Refa was on this line of thinking on his read wich i found producting. Taking the opposite reasoning to counter the former add nothing to the point imo because they search for totally different reads.