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BBM

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Everything posted by BBM

  1. tunneling is suspicious bc it means the person may not be capable of making more than one case. whether that case was on town or scum is not really as relevant because people can be wrong. this is not a 1v1. lynch kirsche if you find him the scummiest, don't lynch him just because you now think junko is town
  2. yeah my agenda is lynching the people I find scummiest. having no agenda means you're just playing aimlessly, which probably means you don't care who gets lynched, which is scummy. assuming that junko can only target the same dead person once (which is how I have always seen amnesiac/gravedigger implemented), this is a strictly null claim. I can literally link role PMs of me having this role as both town and scum. it's also not a role like mack's which will just get itself killed as town. i still don't understand this 1v1 people are setting up between kirsche and junko and why people want to default to kirsche over eclipse if they don't want to lynch junko. if kirsche gets lynched and flips town, what extra info are you getting on junko? just that he was wrong. two people tunneling each other all game doesn't give you anything beyond that with regards to the others alignment if one gets lynched. the most informative interactions are when people change their opinions on things, and by definition that doesn't exist in a tunneling interaction.
  3. also wait wait do you target living people? i assumed you could only target dead people
  4. that role is more commonly known as gravedigger. claim doesn't really change my opinion on junko's alignment. i've been both town and scum gravedigger. forcing 1v1s for non-role reasons is something that I really dislike because it's basically lining up lynches. you can get two people lynched on consecutive days for the price of one case, and like 5 people are doing it, which is very frustrating because i can't even scumread anyone for it
  5. i would lynch junko over kirsche but I'm just really uncomfortable with this 1v1 people are making out of it. i've seen a lot of town vs town tunneling instances. and kirsche is someone who we all KNOW tunnels. i fundamentally disagree with the premise that one of them has to be scum because of how much they've been focusing on each other.
  6. do you pick one dead role and become that role for the rest of the game or do you get to use each role as a 1x ability?
  7. i was scumreading jb for a good portion of d1 and d2 but his response under pressure seemed pretty decent? that's something i've been struggling with where I feel like the people I've pushed have responded in a good way. i don't think eclipse really did though, it felt like she kind of avoided answering a lot of questions. especially the ones makaze asked; once or twice she was basically like "i'll decide whether or not I want to respond to you" which is just ???. part of mafia is that you agree to respond to cases people make against you unless you think they're making them in bad faith. she also made it seem like he was scummy just for casing her.
  8. i'm not going to case only weak players just because I might be wrong. then only weak players would get lynched. ugh I don't really want to lynch kirsche. do you guys really find junko subbing back in to be such a strong argument that you're basically willing to lynch anyone else? because that's what it seems like to me based on switching to eclipse and now kirsche
  9. I'm good with voting Eclipse bc I find her scummier but i don't really think that the atgument that junko wouldn't sub back in as scum is good? He probably just felt really bad. Plus even though i enjoy town more i think I'd be more likely to sub back in as mafia because i would feel bad screwing over my teammates. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Eclipse
  10. Oh must have missed that. I'm not faulting eclipse for not having a lot of reads. It just feels more like a lot more of her game has been based on pushing people without any content than it normally is. And her fixation on tone changes seems over the top
  11. Rip i woke up late and have to leave almoat right away. Why are people waiting for junko to claim when he subbed out? His sub subbed out too so... Did I miss something?
  12. anyways i'm off for the night, I should be around tomorrow morning for a little while but unfortunately i won't be here for phase end, or if i am it'll be with less than 30 minutes left
  13. to elaborate a bit, it feels with junko that the main thing you're using to balance out the suspicious things junko did is that he's explained himself better than kirsche. i don't really see that as the case at all so it feels really weak. actually, thinking you two might be buddies now, as opposed to what I said in the last post about you pushing for a mislynch without tying yourself to the wagon. that makes more sense, although i'm not putting a ton of stock into that reading of it without a scum flip from one of you
  14. ehhh I think I'll probably keep shinori in the leaning town pile. I think his d1 was pretty good and i thought he had some pretty good points on bartozio early on and nightmare later. i think his start to d2 was kind of weak because he didn't really talk much about his reads but he clarified them later and they seem reasonable. i don't quite like his auto "scumread everyone finding bibbon suspicious" but that's relatively minor. @Snike- honestly I forgot about eclipse's rvs case; i kinda skipped over rvs when rereading her (and everyone else's) posts. i agree that it doesn't really fit the pattern of the rest of her play but I think coming up with those kinds of rvs scum intent cases is a lot easier than doing it later in the game, because later on as scum you have to start actively ignoring townie things that people are doing. so I don't give the rvs stuff as much importance. my big mafia-related takeaway was that I didn't like it because it seemed like you came up with plenty of good reasons to find junko suspicious (non-evolving reads, misrep on kirsche, tunneling), and yet still ended up at a null read on him. it feels like you're pushing the wagon while trying not to tie yourself to it. just not sure if i'm confirmation biasing because although it's scummy it doesn't quite fit the type of scummy you've been so far. my big non-mafia-related takeaway was that you got a migraine from a stomach ache and that sounds like a bad time. interested to see what your read on omega is. i feel like your reads post before you started the big kirsche/junko reread was less a reads post and more of a "this is what I remember about these people" post. you said that athena "was" the scummiest person. what's your current read on him?
  15. it's honestly impressive how many words eclipse managed to write to come to a null conclusion on both junko and kirsche
  16. @Refa once Snike subbed in for Poly my approach has been to not let Satsuma's posts affect my reads on the slot (barring like a major slip or something). reading players with mafia experience is a lot easier than reading players without it, so yeah I could find flaws in satsuma's posts, but it would be really hard to know how much of it is due to him being scum vs being new. there's no reason to try to make the newbtown vs newbscum distinction for satsuma when I can read snike instead. now, I think the things you point out about Snike's Athena read are valid, but that's only a part of his athena read, which is itself only one part of snike's play. i haven't really gotten the sense that he's trying to push everything athena does as scummy, and i thought his nightmare case was decent. and more than that, just... i don't know, he just seems super involved and pro-town. sorry man. not to mention, you say that you think any half-decent scumteam would have told satsuma to claim how his role sounded fishy, and it was something to keep in mind if someone like me flipped scum. but I'm not the only person who would tell him to do that- eclipse, via, kirsche, marth, shinori, etc. would all say similar stuff. the weapons sub out request is really frustrating. inclined just to lynch this slot so the mods don't have to find another sub. it's annoying that his defence was basically just wifom. i don't know what to do with that because weapons is definitely someone whom I could see using a wifom defence as scum.
  17. there are still mafia uses for a martyr, and the macho thing could be put in by the mods to make it a more town-sounding fake. i just think it's a bad lynch at this point in the game. dinner and then shinori
  18. martyr redirects actions aimed at their target to themselves. macho is a modifier that makes him unable to be protected. he's already proven the martyr because he redirected the co-network from refa to himself. fwiw it's pretty standard practice to give scum either fake roleclaims or two-part roles where one part is what they're supposed to use as their town claim. plus nightmare was the one who actually made the claim, before mack subbed in, so mack's inexperience doesn't really matter.
  19. i think your bottom two paragraphs are mostly ok and i'm even fine with PoEing down to refa/shinori/eclipse/athena but it's really shitty to just vote shinori without saying what puts him above the other three. if you can barely remember what any of the 4 have done then why do you single out shinori here? which posts by kirsche or by others made you change your opinion on kirsche? is there any order to how you would vote between those 4 people? this post just reinforces my opinion on weapons because he still avoids actually making a case on anyone. this is the scummy way to do PoE bc he narrowed down to a few people and then basically just picked one out of the hat as opposed to actually looking more deeply into those 4 people and trying to figure out who's scummiest.
  20. it feels like everyone is ignoring my reasons for why mack is a bad lynch today??? seriously i don't think a single person has even responded to it i heavily dislike this. makaze wasn't saying you were inactive or weren't posting enough, he was saying that your content in your posts was easy and not impressive. and what exactly about his attitude stinks? is he just not allowed to find you suspicious? feels like you're basically using the way he worded his case against you as a reason to not even respond to his case. i guess this is an acceptable reasoning for why sudden toneshifts are suspicious but it still seems like you were way overexaggerating how different the tone shift was when you consider that people are naturally going to have a more aggressive tone when attacking than when answering random questions. you didn't say he was scummy for having to go away, but you DID say he was hypocritical for calling out walrein for flaking while he was flaking. (and the implication in context was that the hypocrisy was scummy) did you read the case I made against you eclipse?
  21. yeah i didn't realize you actually thought snike was scummy until just now. i'll reread your case but uh this feels like town v town to me
  22. so this is basically my PoE: obvtown people: via, refa, snike/satsuma other town: marth/omega: i think marth's claim is town and I also think omega has been super good since subbing in elie/sully: don't see sully making that claim as scum. reads like newbtown getting overeager bc they thought they had something. iirc as newbscum in antihero he defaulted to asking sb/iris a lot of questions before doing anything big bibbon/kaoz: covered why I thought bibbon's response to me was town. also don't see the jailer claim coming from scum. fable: i don't see him defending bibbon with meta as scum ed1. everyone was pushing him for not having a lot of content at that time, doesn't make sense to reveal townmeta that nobody else knew when he could have just pushed bibbon. leaning town/would not lynch today: nightmare/mack: covered why this is a bad lynch at this point in the game. this might still be a scum slot but the upside is not worth the possibility of lynching a protective role that is very likely to kill itself if it's town and end this discussion for us zeus/makaze: said a lot about zeus already. he was probably higher on this list earlier but it makes me uncomfortable that he stopped posting as soon as people stopped voting him. makaze's posts are fine so far though i think. walrein: whenever he's around and been posting i've liked his tone. athena: defended him a lot already. shinori: tbh this is just a gutvibe overall but he's going to be the next person I reread. remaining: eclipse, jb, earendil/gaius, junko/radicate, kirsche, weapons, anime/fenrir/alette no opinions on the gaius and alette slots obviously, and they should get some more time to give content. i want to lynch either weapons or eclipse today, would consolidate on junko > jb > kirsche if I had to.
  23. but you investigated kirsche, said "i have a minor scumread on him" and then did nothing and kept your vote on fable.
  24. sorry, posted early. some questions for @eclipse: what are your opinions on kirsche/junko? it feels like you've only tangentially talked about them and when you did you basically just said that kirsche made you uncomfortable tonally because he was being hyper-aggressive. i feel like you should know that that part is pretty null regarding kirsche? being waffly isn't a scumtell by itself. it just adds to the feeling that you're not really pushing anyone when that's your strongest scumread. so how do you plan on coming up with scumreads if you're not going to scumread them even after they ping you and then you reread them in depth?
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