BBM
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eh I was really hoping Junko would come back first to react to vague aspersions but w/e it felt a bit weird that he just voted someone without any joke or any attempt to start a wagon or anything at all (I'm aware that he was the second post). almost like he felt he was obligated to do it? shrug
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i don't think the hydra is alignment-indicative but come on lol you can't have a widely panned bastard role in the back of your mind at all times when assessing other roleclaims.
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after all the games of Refa getting me as a role, I finally got him as a role!!! Refa-senpai teach me how to RP as you also Iris baited me into subbing in by telling me the game would start late Tuesday evening and then they started it on Monday gg. WONDERING IF THIS WAS ALL A MOD SETUP TO GET ME TO PLAY. gonna be busy until Thursday so don't wait up all night for me to post D1 quite honestly I know there were concerns about Poly flaking (sorry Poly) so I don't know if this hydra is part of the setup or if the mods thought pairing him with another new player might result in one slot's worth of content in total. weird vibes from Junko so far #RVSSTRONG ##Vote: Junko
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fe4's politics are too black and white for the resistance to sell off ayra to an evil dictatorship for a pardon. plus i doubt she would agree, and I doubt shanan would order her to do so either. maybe in real life something like this would have happened but fire emblem has never dealt in stuff like this. i mean i wouldn't really care if they added what you're suggesting but i don't think there's a plot hole or anything due to them not saying why the kids aren't there
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but nobody's going to line up to marry a wanted fugitive, even if she is a princess... and the entire continent is under alvis's control except silesia, and they have no eligible men for her to marry either (unless she marries ced but lol)
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IIRC it's implied she dies in the Battle of Barhara but if she survives she'd presumably be in hiding with the resistance? Nothing would "stop" her from marrying someone else but that doesn't mean she has to either, so there's no reason you have to give an excuse for why her kids aren't there. Why would they care whether Ayra marries someone or not? Shanan is the rightful heir to the throne of Isaac. I guess you might want a line of succession in case he dies, but FE has never really been big on political marriages (off the top of my head, only Nyna).
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tinny isn't the substitute lol, linda is (but yeah she's story connected) confused why turning paragon ring into a consumable would make lex a worse dad? makes him a better dad bc now only one other person can pass it along instead of whoever has the ring. making things consumable rather than tradable reduces flexibility and eclipse, if the moms died or didnt marry, the kids would never exist...? that's the entire point of the sub. if anything the excuse should be for why the substitute isn't there, because radney/roddleban should theoretically be there even if you did pair ayra and she had kids.
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yeah I definitely agree that Gen 2 needs more work than Gen 1
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Tying weapon crit to character is okay in that gen 2 characters can't become OP through gen 1 characters getting kills for them, but it still encourages using only a few units. changing the game so that that's not incentivized, or just heavily reducing or flat out removing weapon crit would probably be better. i don't think switching to the new crit damage formula would do much by itself.
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the weapon triangle isn't SUPPOSED to be balanced. yes, axes suck, but guess what, you only get one gen 1 axe unit and he has a mount and gets his own Hero weapon and has Elite and is one of the 3 best units in gen 1 anyways. lances aren't great, but again only mounted units can use them. fire sucks, thunder is a bit better, and wind is best- so then it makes sense that that's the exact order in which azel gets his weapons. again, if sigurd isn't there in gen 1 (or hell, if you even take away his mount) you can't horse emblem the game. lex is basically just an elite-bot father if you don't know about the Hero Axe event, and even if you do he's 1-range locked because Hand Axes suck. plus, he very quickly reaches a point where enemies don't even attack him on EP. cuan can't orko and faces WTD for half the time he's around. noish doesn't have pursuit, alec has it but is mediocre otherwise (especially if you nerf magic swords). fin has pursuit but faces WTD and lances aren't good and Prayer is pretty difficult to set up. midir is bow-locked. jamka is bow locked without a horse but has better stats. ayra/holyn have very good offence but no mounts. dew is purposely shitty at combat because he's the only one who can pass money around (and he has a hidden magic sword event, good growths, and a good promo class if you succeed in using him). lachesis is purposely crappy before promo because she promotes into the best class in the game. ardan is a joke unit, but he gets Pursuit Ring in an event. aideen is a staff bot and the only non-promoted unit who can use Warp, and gets Rescue through convos. ethlin is a mounted staff bot who can combat just enough to survive, but doesn't have the staff rank to use the best staves. if you're not horse embleming, azel can keep up and he has pursuit and accurate 1-2 range that hits res, which is non-existent for most enemies. then he promotes and gets a horse. levin has 1 more move than azel, but is stuck to only one magic type until promo (albeit the best one) and doesn't get a horse on promo. they made holsety too strong though. once you start beating this game with 10 units instead of 5, everything else falls into place too. the weapon crit system can't be abused because you're probably not getting 50 kills on any one weapon in gen 1 (which you could even in this version of the game if you could trade on the map!). suddenly celice can't solo chapter 6 with 70 kill light/hero swords and the leg/elite rings to promote at the start of c7. celice probably barely even kills anything in chapter 7 because he's behind all the action. you can't promote him mid chapter without back-tracking so he maybe doesn't even promote until the start of chapter 9.
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tbf fe4 wasn't really meant to be played blind. iirc you got a guide with the game that would tell you about the need to pair people, as well as where the hidden events like Hero Axe, Pursuit Ring, etc. were. but to a certain extent fe4 and especially fe5 were both designed to be ragequit games
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that would also be pretty hard to set up? you could only really do this against moving bosses, not gate bosses, since nobody who can use Balmung has a horse, and even then you'd need multiple other people to stand between the Balmung users to facilitate the trade. the only boss for whom you'd possibly want to do that is Ishtar, and honestly if you go to all that effort to pull this off, good on you. it kinda just sucks with FE4 that it's a game where the devs clearly put a lot of thought into balancing the game in 50 different ways but made one or two glaring errors that made everything irrelevant. if you remove Sigurd, make Holsety less broken, and nerf magic swords, this game is nearly perfect (as long as you don't immediately blow a gasket due to not being able to trade).
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If anything, less characters should have pursuit. if only infantry had pursuit, game would instantly be way more balanced. giving everyone pursuit makes the game less balanced because most of the infantry have it already. pursuit isn't why this game has balance issues.
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but... aideen gets warp and rescue through events. the only staff you'd ever want to trade to her is physic I guess but it's not that important. lana gets all her staves from aideen. the other staff users can fight. if they're running out of gold for repairing those staves, that's on you for overusing them. all the village/boss weapon drops in gen 1 suck except Silver Lance, Thunder Sword, and maybe Armorslayer. The two bosses are right on or beside castles. i can't remember where you get Armorslayer so that might be one case where you would want to do it. the gen 2 drops are all mostly only if you messed up with inheritance, except for hero axe. it's just so confusing because I'm literally playing through FE4 right now and I haven't experienced a single situation (on Chapter 10 right now) where I have gotten a weapon from a village and been like "I want to trade this NOW. Literally, NOW. I cannot wait five more turns until I capture the next castle. I have to go back so I can do it RIGHT NOW". there would be a strategy element to trading around weapons a bunch on PP to maximize usage every turn (particularly in a game like FE4 where enemies are clustered) but nothing you've said indicates that you would use it this way. if you just really dislike the fact that lex!ulster needs to wait one castle to get a better sword, well, you can just allow lex to buy swords even if he can't pass them down. if you just want to do it because that's how it is in every other game, sure I guess although I personally like it this way. but then it's very confusing why you'd be okay doing it for weapons/staves but not rings. i'm also confused why anybody would want 1-time use statboosters/skills over ones that can be traded for a price. if you don't plan on trading them, just stick it to one person the whole time...?
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why do you want to trade weapons and staves so badly? the only staves that are important are Return, Warp, Rescue, and healing staves, and they all end up with people who can use them well. the only weapon that's good that you'd want to trade is the Hero Sword. is all you want to do trade the Hero Sword between like three different characters on PP so they can all use it to kill someone?
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unequippable skill scrolls that cost money to trade in base is literally the exact same thing as the current system
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the movable convoy trading removes the extra level of strategy that the pawn shop approach carries, while also not having the speed/efficiency of direct trading. it's the worst of both worlds lol. skill/stat rings are the most important things you'd want to trade... almost all the weapons that get dropped suck. edit: event weapons I guess but the Hero Sword is the only weapon where you would want to trade it right away what you see as tedious I see as an extra level of strategy. if you don't see it that way there's like a fundamental gap between us.
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that too, sure, but this doesn't really hurt many people, and movement is a bigger problem for the people whom it does hurt The Hero Axe is the only weapon that can't get passed down...? and you get it back almost right away I guess this is an issue if you're playing blind and screw up all your pairings, but if you do that, again you have bigger problems.
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c'mon now you're being facetious. what I meant is that it adds more to the game than it takes away through its inconvenience. it makes you have to actually put units in positions to get the items you want them to get. maybe if you want Lachesis to get that Elite Ring so that she can become a Master Knight quicker, you have to actually set up a kill for her rather than having her get it for free. if you want Cuan to get the Silver Lance, have him kill Elliot, etc. the argument that it reinforces horse emblem is silly. if you're horse embleming the game and having them kill all the bosses, why do you even want to give the drops to infantry? and if you're not doing it that way, then have the infantry kill the bosses. and item inheritance is a cool thing that adds tradeoffs to certain pairings... like for example Lex is generally speaking a very good dad because he gives Elite and makes his kids bulky, but if you do that his son (or if you pair him with Briggid, Patty) is stuck with an iron weapon at start.
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Honestly other than the Elite Ring and Hero Sword, I can't think of many situations where I've ever gotten an item and wanted to trade it immediately. Almost everything other than the Elite Ring and Pursuit Ring are cheap anyways. And sure I guess if the mounted unit is the one who gets the item it costs the infantry to buy it, but there are lots of cases where infantry end up with the item through events and villages. Not to mention there are cases where you should split your party up and the infantry should kill the enemies and get the items (eg the Orgahill pirates in C3). The real thing that needs to get fixed here is for Sigurd and Lex to not be close to invincible and able to ORKO everything by themselves. Then you need to slow down and then the fact that Ayra/Holyn/Jamka etc are better than their mounted counterparts at fighting actually matters because they can keep up. And then if you fix weapon crit so you don't have 50 crit Light Sword and Hero Sword, Celice can't solo either. Why wouldn't you transfer items at the castle before the desert??? Even if you're playing blind, where are the situations where a unit can't wait until the next castle to get the item? Like sure some of this stuff can be inconvenient but honestly I really feel it adds more to the game than it takes away.
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Pawn shop is a pretty critical part of inheritance. If you open up trading between everyone, the entire inheritance mechanic becomes useless and pairings are basically just for skills and holy blood. Plus, pawn shop and individual gold make the game more balanced. Otherwise it would be even easier than it already is to stack everything on a couple characters. It makes training weak characters a bit harder but there are a ton of villages that you can use to get them money and whatnot (and besides, the lategame Est that's difficult to train is a FE archetype). Fixing combat balance would automatically make it easier to train weak characters too. honestly, like... balance is a fair criticism of FE4's gameplay. But a lot of the actual mechanics you dislike are integral to what FE4 is. I'm open to some adjustments, but just flat out removing them like you suggest would only exacerbate balance issues and remove what makes the game unique. They should try to make FE4 the best possible version of itself, not a shitty version of other games. what problem do you have with pairings? I think most of them take too long, so personally I would shorten time requirements for marriage (who needs to marry to have kids anyways), but make it something you can choose to activate rather than being automatic, so you don't need to worry about people who you recruited earlier in the game falling in love automatically or whatever. And then add more conversations to flesh out characters.
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you might not like the mechanics, but saying it's bland is silly. fe4 has pawn shop stuff, unique gold, pairings and inheritance, holy blood, etc. FE1 is extremely vanilla in comparison, which makes sense since it basically just established core FE mechanics and little else. it makes sense that a game that outdated, even with reclass slapped on, wouldn't do well way later, especially in comparison to other main entry games. FE4 echoes isn't going to be a bust. FE2 echoes made its money back in a few months. If they devote a similarly small amount of resources, there's no way a game that was more popular in Japan, was played by a lot more NA fans, and has Heroes lead-in will get less sales. not to mention that pairings and kids have been very popular in Awakening/Fates and this is where that mechanic originated. They've hinted once or twice at wanting to do a FE6 Echoes first, and that's the one which I think might fall flat. fe6 is another pretty vanilla game, with the most memorable thing (for me anyways) being shitty accuracy weapons, high evade bosses on thrones, and low growths/stats. if they fix that stuff (and they probably will, given that they did for FE2), FE6 doesn't have anything beyond core FE mechanics to it. Frankly I think there should be a lot more focus on story stuff in this thread. FE4 does a decent job on big picture narrative, but waaaay too much of the worldbuilding is in exposition and hinted at through one-liners in villages, particularly in Gen 2. They did a good job facelifting the FE2 story and filling in gaps and giving more attention to side characters. FE2, like FE4, had a similarly good big picture story but with a lack of detail, so I hope they can do something similar here. FE4 characters have a bit more to them than FE2 ones did, but there's still a lot that can be improved on that side. This is where the big-picture army gameplay hurts storytelling capabilities a bit. It's tough to add those kinds of more personal touches, for example with regards to seeing how civilians were impacted by the brutality of Arvis's dictatorship.
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I'm not really a fan of the indoor idea tbh. While it's true that FE4 maps get a bit repetitive with just a castle seize every time, I don't see how it adds more of a climax? just feels like it would add more length and more stuff to kill to a game that's already kind of long. It also takes away from the general large-scale vibe of the game. the reason fe4/fe5 are so polarizing for both better and worse is that they're the games where gameplay mechanics are tied most to the identity of the game. you don't want to add/remove stuff that takes away from that identity I guess if you force units to dismount (and that carries stat penalties) it's something for infantry to do? but infantry are so far behind even getting to the castle most of the time. the infantry warping is like, a super contrived mechanic to provide value to infantry when there are other ways to make them more valuable (nerf Sigurd, nerf holy weapons, nerf weapon crit). I also don't think backtracking is a big deal? It favours infantry because they can get started towards the second castle while your cavalry take the first castle. And you have Return/Warp to transport any important cavalry like Sigurd around.
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i'm okay with a pretty faithful rendering of FE4. tbh I would be fine if non-utility/non-holy weapon infantry sucked again but some balance suggestions: I would probably just nerf holy weapon bonuses so that you're not almost useless without one in Gen 2 and make the maps a bit smaller and remove roads. Roads only exacerbate the move difference between infantry and mounted units, and making map size smaller would remove the need. I would probably also remove the weapon crit bonus, or reduce the max crit you can get. It just adds a snowball effect with regards to beating the game with a handful of characters, when FE4 was trying to go for a whole army vs army thing. I don't think the argument that a straight FE4 remake would be a bust because SD was a bust is good. Firstly, SD wasn't that straight a remake- reclass for example was a pretty huge mechanic change. Secondly, they tried to get SD to have sales equivalent to a brand new game, which it was never going to have. FE4 Echoes doesn't need to sell like Fates, it just needs to make some cash between main entry games. If that means you're not going to get many people who didn't like the original, that's fine. Thirdly, FE4 is a game with a lot more interesting mechanics and vibe than FE1. You might not like those mechanics, but it's definitely not bland in terms of gameplay. Fourthly, the size of the FE market is a lot bigger now than it was back before SD, and there are a lot of new FE fans who haven't played FE4 but know FE4 characters because of Heroes, and will pick up the game bc of that. With SD they were banking on people recognizing Marth from Smash, but as it turns out Smash and FE are two totally different types of games, who knew???
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it's less about activity and more about being concise and not making wallposts when it's not necessary
