ATNAK

Maybe it's those cases where the evil spirit give the host absolute powers and immunity against everything else, but because human body isn't good enough to withstand so much power so the host were basically dying from the inside out the whole time anyway? I know Kaga basically said "this is magic, it's all random okay?!" but the whole "incest mean a lot of major blood carriers running around" is a solid mechanic and common knowledge... I feel like it's very likely the old Loptyr imperial family had a lot of babies and incest arranged marriages.

It sound like your entire reasoning hinge on Arion having no idea about Loptyr, but honestly I couldn't see how that would be possible. The empire is basically called Loptyr empire now, the sect is in so much power their dark bishops hold official positions all over the continent, there's even one in Thracia! Dark bishop Judah is a boss in Thracia map, we fought him. Everybody and their grandma are calling the stolen children as sacrifice for the Dark God, like the empire couldn't be more obvious about being evil if they tried. Arion had to be beyond stupid to miss this fact. So following that, saying that Arion is continuing the fight for the people by fighting for the empire doesn't work. Even the villages on this chapter are happy when the liberation army took out the Empire reinforcement and they are uneasy about the whole dark mage ruling Grutia business too. The people don't want to fight this war, and considering how blatantly evil and how the empire hold Thracia in zero regard, hoping that the empire would give a silver of care toward Thracia is beyond logic, reason and emotional instinct. The empire just don't care and all Thracian know that. So if you want to say Arion is running purely on emotions? The empire is never the answer. In fact after reading the script again, there's more support from the game on the "Arion is just being a stubborn man with warrior pride that rather die a warrior's death" than anything you have mentioned. We could say it's just the liberation army's guess of course, but it's noteworthy that this is the only explanation for Arion's motivation the game gave us. With the fact that Trabant got to talk for himself in mind, it make more sense to say that if the game want us to think differently it would make a point to show us differently.

But Trabant's actions have never been confusing and even at the end when he decide to basically commit suicide his motivation is what's up for debate not his actions. Precisely because despite not being the main character (or even the main villain!) he does spell out his motivation for us. We saw him discussing it with Arion on screen, it's not a designer's notes or left out on the cutting room floor stuff, it's right there in the game itself. The only ambiguity is exactly what Trabant thought and feel as he fly off to his death when he was super gung-ho on fighting the liberation army before. Still by his actions, saying Arion is complying with Trabant's wish by refusing to even entertain the thought of a truce feel off. If Trabant is really all for siding with the empire (which he explicitly said before that he's not) and want to fight the liberation army to the best of his ability there's no reason why he should gave up his holy weapon. That make it seem like 1) Trabant literally don't care anymore and just want to die or 2) He's getting himself out of the equation so Thracia could reasonably call for a truce. Either way, Trabant clearly left the decision up to Arion and well you brought up how lowly Thracia is regarded in the empire's eyes... that just make the case for Arion's decision is all logic look weaker here. Arion knows what the empire is like by now, there's no way he doesn't because we already see Trabant already talk to him about this. Sure Julius teleport in to save him for a bit, but there's no illusion here. Thracia has already lost. Well we does see Corple as a victim in the child hunt in FE5, so that's where my assumption came from. Even with only FE4 info though, I thought it's only reasonable for Thracia to get no special treatment or else there would be a mad scramble to seek refuge in Thracia from parents with kids/the plot would have make a big deal about it because everywhere else within the empire reach all suffer the child hunts.

There's one problem with this interpretation though, Thracia is never better off under the Empire's rule. Thracia is not exempted from the child hunts and the only reason why Manster isn't already under Thracia control in Gen 2 is because the Empire just move in and took over (when Trabant already succeed in offing Cuan and everything!). If the empire won, there would still be child hunts in Thracia and I am sure Thracia still wouldn't get their hands on Manster anyway (we are talking about an evil empire run by a human hating dragon after all). So with that in mind, even an uneasy truce with Manster would still be an improvement for Thracian people and it's not like the new emperor couldn't force a fair trade agreement that would solve Thracia's starvation problem (even if the solution is hardly permanent and Manster could still force outrageous tariffs on Thracia later down the line just like what started off the civil war to begin with) Thracia always have it bad, but siding with the evil empire isn't going to change that.

But considering how FE5 really doesn't give a damn about being canon compliant with FE4 wouldn't that render anything you would consider as evidence from FE5 moot? Combined with Kaga's words that just mean everything from FE5 isn't canon and are all just a dream possibility. Then there's how Beo sword isn't explicitly a linage item either, so saying that any circumstantial evidences that could be glean from it is canon is definitely not true. It mean the theory doesn't pop out of thin air yeah, but that's still isn't the same as canon.

My whole spiel about just because you like a theory doesn't make it true is honestly more about Lachesis than Nanna's parentage. Like my reply to SatsumaFSoysoy, I don't consider the idea of Delmud and Nanna having different fathers automatically slut shaming. With Fin it's not about disrespect, there's a difference between a noble and the lord he is serving considering him a father because in the latter case Fin would find himself in a position where he might "usurp" Cuan's rightful place. I must reiterate again that I have no problem with the idea of Fin being Nanna's biological father in FE5, but your argument for it have some holes. An absence of evidence is not an evidence of absence. Considering that the game writers definitely doesn't want to upset the fans by ruling out a popular fan preferred pairing like Fin x Lachesis, of course they wouldn't make it clear that Nanna is Fin's adoptive daughter. The best way to handle this is to let the player decided the pairing for themselves, and maybe even add some support for the popular vote while they are at it to please the fans. And here's the biggest kicker, FE4 was released before FE5! And in FE4 the Fin as father convo only happen to reward his daughter with extra stats! He literally couldn't have a convo with Nanna if she isn't his daughter so no I don't see why she should have a convo to give her extra stats if she isn't already his daughter. Considering how Fin couldn't have a talk with his own son, I don't see why the writers would deem Fin and Nanna relationship important enough to write for when he isn't her dad. Plus no, FE5 doesn't make Fury and Levin canon, FE4 already made that pairing canon! If we are going down that route, you basically undermine your own argument for Fin as Nanna's dad here since the family tree chart doesn't support that. Honestly, it's because Levin and Fury are already so canon to begin with that they had no problem straight up admitting that Sety is a prince in FE5 instead of leaving any wiggle room.

Liking a theory is not the same as saying something is canon though. I have a lot of headcanons and theory I continue to enjoy even after canon totally kill all the possibility of them being true, but my love doesn't make any of them canon. It's not about OTP forever either since all Gen 1 pairings are doomed in canon no matter what, and whether the pairing is Beo x Lachesis or Fin x Lachesis neither ships end well. As you said these characters are honestly not that developed and most of them end up not really doing anything other than play the part the plot put them through, which mean the whole affair thing only exist because scandal appeal and does not really happened. You could enjoy the theory as much as you please, but that doesn't make the theory canon. I just think it's really important to respect source material even if we don't like it or feel it should be fix one way or another. After all, canon is about facts, about the stuff that the fandom has experienced and like that and that's what everyone had in common. It's not like we couldn't play around with any ideas we like regardless anyway. As for the whole Fin as Nanna's biological dad thing, I am not personally opposed to the idea but comparing Nanna's situation to Leif honestly weaken that argument. Because it's not about how Fin is just a knight while Leif and Nanna are both nobles. Fin wouldn't give a single damn if Nanna replace her dad with him in her heart and let the whole world know it (after all she's not his liege), but that sure as hell would never be the case with Leif. Fin has repeatedly shown and reiterate that his entire identity is about being a good, proper knight that serve Cuan. There's zero chance Fin would ever let Leif forget (or at least shown) he forget that he is Cuan's son first and foremost. In FE5 Fin frequently act subservience to Leif and make it extremely clear that their relationship is of a knight serving his liege. Fin most likely does treat Nanna like his daughter but Leif? NO WAY. If Leif ever call Fin "father" instead of like a father, Fin would have been filled with despair and a huge sense of failure. No we aren't supposed to even think for a fraction of a second that Fin is supposed to be seen as Leif's father instead of his servant. Edit - That just sound like the ending suggest Fergus is Beo's son not the sword directly. The staff has explicit in story statement that said it's linage locked, while FE5 have lots of personal weapons that was user locked for gameplay reasons rather than have in-story justification that said only xyz linage could use them. For example - Leif's light sword, Nanna's earth sword and Fin's hero lance. All weapons that anybody could use in FE4 but was restricted to certain characters in FE5

Wow you are right, my theory couldn't fly if Leif is dead and he could actually die! The fact that if you recruit Altenna and Leif died, the peninsula goes to her is what make my theory deader than dead. Well there goes my attempt at making Arion look better. Since FE5 exist, I would say even Kaga agree with you that Leif's blood feud with the Thracians is a big missed opportunity. I'm not sure about the idea of a remake though, it's extremely likely they would mess things up instead of fixing anything.

But the game never paint the situation as regrettable circumstances though. Arion is the only one saying that while everyone else keep consoling Altenna that Arion will come around eventually. This is more into conjecture territory but I wouldn't say it's 100% a warrior's pride thing with Arion. Yes, his established motivation before he got stubborn is his love for his father and Altenna, but throughout all that Arion also share in Trabant's vision of a unified Thracia peninsula with Thracia as its head. Joining the liberation army does mean letting go of that vision (since as cousins Celice would naturally favor Leif). Of course as Altenna and Hannibal pointed out stopping the empire is more important so this reason isn't that reasonable.

I mentioned slut shaming because there's a lot of posts on this topic that said Lachesis have an affair in canon and call her names...except it isn't canon and it isn't even an in game possibility. Yes, the idea of Lachesis having Delmud with Beo and then having Nanna with Fin later on doesn't have anything to do with slut shaming inherently. But a lot of people who support this idea doesn't see it as "moving on after Beo died", but that surely Lachesis must have an affair/cheat on Beo/have serious case of wandering eyes. It doesn't have to be about slut shaming, but from the tone of the posts I have seen? Slut shaming is the general appeal.

So I really want to reply to this post But I do realize that would be necroposting, so I make an awkward new topic here. I don't have any revolutionary idea to add, but I am really surprised nobody brought up the simplest possibility. He just wasn't listening to Trabant. I am being serious! Trabant was pretty clear on telling Arion to do whatever he want but please take care of Thracia before basically going to die and Arion's instant response is "I will never surrender/call for a truce!". For all Arion said about understanding his dad to Altenna, Arion's instant response is to keep repeating how he would never surrender over and over it become his motivation when his dad basically engineer an ideal situation for said truce. At this point I would say it's clear that it's not about fate or his dad or whatever Arion told himself is his motivation, in reality it's just his pride. Arion really doesn't want to surrender despite all the pros and cons or for whose sake. From how Arion talk of Trabant's last words, you will be forgiven for thinking Trabant told him to die fighting, but since we know what Trabant actually said we also know Arion had no good reason to fight. Really from how Arion himself instantly pick up Trabant's last words as a suggestion for a truce and how he also instantly deny that course of action, it's clear to me that Arion isn't fighting for Trabant or Thracia or safety from the empire. Altenna is right, he's only fighting because he has a pride issue where surrender is unacceptable and literally rather die (which is straight up stupid when the liberation army is busy fighting Anti-Christ for the future of the continent meanwhile Arion is being a petulant brat who insist he doesn't lose because he never give up -_-)

I actually played both FE4 and FE5 first before stumbling across the whole fandom controversy on Nanna's canon dad later... and this really get me wondering - how many people actually read the Beo & Lachesis chapter 5 talk and all the times Nanna called Fin father before hearing this rumor? I know not many people played FE4 and FE5 so most of the opinions on this topic is purely from hearsay or that they just really love the scandal of an affair and slut shaming, so this rumor will never die even if we have official English canon support and statement disproving this theory/headcanon. (Kinda like how Dragon Quest V has a rumor that one love interest would become an abused barmaid and her dad will die if she's not chosen, but no such thing actually ever happen. Still that rumor is like the only thing people who barely heard of the game know about it) Before hearing about the rumor (and honestly after), I don't see anything that suggest Lachesis have any feelings for Fin at all. Sure Beo brought Fin up, but it's always strike me more as a "well we know a guy in Lenster, so you could go there to look for Ares" than anything else. And yes I am sure Beo is actually talking about Eldigan/Eltshan instead of Fin. Like in Heroes, the one trait that Lachesis was allowed to have to defined her is having a crush on her brother. Why wouldn't this talk be about her brother??? Why shouldn't Lachesis go to Lenster when her brother's son with his major holy blood is there? Then in FE5, sure the game make Fin and Lachesis a couple, but even then I always thought Nanna is Beo's daughter and Fin is like her stepdad. And the debate on Beo sword is just weird. Fergus and Delmud are both Freeknights, so what if they got a special class locked sword named after a Gen 1 Freeknight? Why is a non holy weapon being used to gauge parentage anyway???

Good Lord, I thought I was the only one who considered this black/white morality business an issue! Thank you so much for posting this. This game's story problems are so bad, it made Awakening look good in comparison. Seriously, Awakening story is also problematic, but ultimately salvageable compared to what we got with Fates. I always considered Fire Emblem to be a tactical RPG with war stories which every games except Fates managed to deliver to varying degrees. You're right, in this game the world was not even built on cardboards, there were barely any substances to anything at all. At most Nohr is considered a gray area while Hoshido is perfect and totally an innocent victim, the writing show such obvious bias to the point of fetish. It's not even a Japan vs Europe thing, since real Japan and its history is hardly shining and perfect. Hoshido does not even qualify as a fantasy of feudal Japan... There is nothing peacefully loving about infighting among various warlords. Basically, Hoshido is supposed to be bountiful in natural resources with 'nothing but good natured' people. A sterilized mockery of peace loving nation whose goodness stemmed from word of God and lack of sins rather than the presence of its virtues. And definitely not Japan expy. Hoshido the nation is so far apart from realism its unrelatable to me. PS. Japanese culture is fascinating to me. It's unique brand of life is something I really like and value, so while I don't think I qualify as a Japanophile...the notion that Hoshido is comparable to Japan still feel insulting. Japan has its faults, but the virtues it does possess more than make up for it. Personally I think making things black and white actually weaken the theme of choice. Plus, I feel that the Nohr army is human enough. Not to say that Hoshido should be dirty to make things even, but white vs grey is still uneven compared to different shades of grey. Really NOT going all Hoshido is picture perfect should be good enough.

Please, could someone translate Ronku x Olivia? Pegasus Knight already has the full script and everything. I tried google translate, but the only thing I could understand is that they talk about Basilio. A lot.

Sorry for the late reply. The reason I need to use valkyrie staff is that if I want the stats up for Lachesis without pairing her with Beowulf, I need to kill him off. Of course in a normal run I wouldn't care, but nobody can die in a ranked run. As for the whole holsety on a horse thing, I believe having Arthur kill Ishtor is going to save me a lot of turns as opposed to waiting for Shanan to get through the desert. So let's recap Midir x Aideen and Holyn x Brigid are okay. Ira should be paired with Noish (wouldn't that be hard?). Sylvia should go with Lex for those kids really need elite. Beowulf x Lachesis is really good, but valkyrie staff aside it's possible to pair her with other people (personal bias: I don't really like Beowulf), and I have no idea who should have Levin's babies.

From what I understand, easy to acquire pairings are optimal for ranked run, but one should not neglect performance as well. I just can't decide which set of pairings would be better for this purpose. Set A Midir x Aideen, Lex x Ira, Beowulf x Lachesis, Claude x Sylvia, Levin x Fury, Azel x Tiltyu, Holyn x Brigid Pro: Easy to pair, don't need to use the valkyrie staff Con: No holsety on a horse, have to pair Lachesis with Beowulf Set B Aideen, Ira and Brigid pairings are the same, but with Azel x Lachesis, Alec x Sylvia, Claude x Fury, and Levin x Tiltyu Pro: Holsety on a horse, great Nanna, don't have to pair Beowulf Con: Harder to pair, need to use valkyrie staff Any suggestions?

If it's not too much trouble, Lachesis should be the one to get the Elite ring. After all, she's a lot more useful as a Master Knight and being mounted made talking to Eltshan a breeze. Or you could give the ring to Fin, since he's going to leave soon and would reappear in Second Gen. Seriously, Fin hardly seem to get any exp in second gen, so it's best to promote him before he leave. Do be very careful and made sure you made Fin sold the ring when he's done with it. I made the mistake of allowing Fin to leave with the ring once and have to replay the whole chapter for that oversight. Not fun.

I have nothing against Lex/Tiltyu really, but a lot of people said that the bad magic stat outweigh the ambush and wrath. The RNG Goddess is not very fond of me so I'm not sure Lex/Tiltyu would work out. So Azel has nothing important that Claude couldn't offer? It's decided, I will just stick to the good old bread and butter, Levin/Tiltyu and Claude/Fury. Oh my, Amid's skill set sound terrible. I'm sorry Linda that I have to ditch you, but I don't think I should try my luck with your brother. Waiting that long for the bargain skill that I never need before sound like too much trouble for me. Alec sound pretty good through, I'll definitely put it on my next to do list.

Never used. I won't mind doing some pairings again though. Better try to be on the safe side. Rana seem just fine with a physical weapon user for a dad to me. Does having Claude as her dad made her so awesome, that it wouldn't matter that we has to benched Lester? Thank you very for your comment! But really, is Amid that's much of a dead weight? I'm sure he's nothing compared to Levin!Arthur but Linda look so good... If I'm going to pair Levin with Fury, I need to know how bad the replacement kids are going to be. I'm glad to know that Lex wouldn't be too bad. Thanks for the Holyn suggestion, but I already tried that. Hero sword for Patty is excellent but Moonlight is not as useful as I hoped it would be. It's still a pretty good though. As for Dew, isn't their love growth rate made this the hardest pairing to make? I realize that hence the topic title. I'm just glad that people are still willing to reply. Thank you for your suggestion, and this is really off topic but I don't like Beowulf either. Am I the only one who hire him for those stats up before killing him off? I realize now that I should be more through at the beginning. Oh well. So far it looks like Noish is better than Holyn for Arya, no problem with Midir and Aideen, Fin might be better than Beowulf, Laylea and Sharlow could still beat Leen and Corple with Holyn/Azel as their dads, and Lex and Brigid wouldn't screw me over. I'm still undecided about Fury and Tiltyu. Levin made both Sety and Fee awesome, and I'm really interested in Linda. Too bad, I might have to ditch that plan if Amid suck too much. And I never seen anyone talk about this before, but really is Claude better for Fury than Azel?

So recently I'm getting back to FE4 and for this replay I want to try some pairings I never used. Still, I don't want to put myself through torture when I'm playing a game. How do my chosen combinations look? Arya: Noish or Holyn Aideen: Midir (I paired her with both Midir and Jamka before, still pursuit made the game easier) Lachesis: Fin (Tried both Azel and Beowulf) Sylvia: Holyn or Azel or Death Fury: Levin or Claude or Azel Tiltyu: Levin or Death (I already paired her with Azel and Levin. Linda look pretty good, have any tried using her before?) Brigid: Lex

If you really need to pair Dew up with someone... As previouly stated you could pair Dew with Arya whose children will actually make good use of Sol. Sure, Astra and Sol can't activate at the same time, but that's not nescessary a bad thing. Or you could also pair him with Briggid. Sure, Sol do absolutely nothing for Patty, but Faval sure could use bargain skill since holy weapons are so expensive to repair. Plus, Dew could pass down swords.