Chromagna

I feel that Awakening's story and characters were much better than Fates' but the gameplay of Fates heavily outdoes Awakening's. That being said, I still prefer certain elements of each story and gameplay over the other games but overall, I felt like I could ignore Awakening's problems more. Having Corrin as a self insert amongst characters I wasn't compelled to save kinda ruined the game for me in a way. I am gonna try and create a list of things I feel like Awakening or Fates did better, if I can think of everything. (Please note I haven't played either in a fairly long time as I have been focusing on studies so this is just going off my memory) Awakening: - Story. Plain and simple. While it was not by any means great and was pretty cliché after watching anime or reading manga, it still gave an emotional connection and had no plot holes or absurd events like Fates did. - Characters. This is a bit more subjective but I want to draw attention to mainly the character integration to the story. Awakening's child characters had some good supports with parents and were decent reads. Of course, there was an occasional hiccup but it isn't forced in as fanservice like Fates and is just a lot smoother compared to half of the gimmicky supports of the children and parents within Fates. For Fates, they also neglect the divide in cultures which is HUGE in a game about two nations coming together when they are completely different. There are next to no supports that show anyone trying to adjust to the cultural habits and lifestyle of the two nations in comparison to Awakening where the children show problems due to the past. Examples being Owain or Gerome who have completely changed due to their losses and having to deal with the new world which they are alienated from. I would also like to draw more attention to Corrin and Robin. Robin had a lot going on, the dependence on others and lack of confidence in his abilities, constantly blaming himself etc etc but Corrin felt like cardboard in comparison. His naive and idiotic decisions distanced (for me at least) him from being a reliable character for self-inserts which is the main point of his character. Not only this, he is showered with affection when it isn't really necessary where as Robin earns it, which is pretty much what Awakening is all about. Atop of this, whoever the hell thought that giving him complete command over the army was a smart idea should be strapped to a chair and forced to complete chapter 10 conquest on lunatic difficulty over and over. Seriously, who the hell thought it was a good idea? With Corrin, I felt alienated from him because he would make stupid choices that I, or any rational person would make. Sure, you could treat him as a seperate character and its sorta justified given his conditions but whats the point of him being customisable then? I could go on about more such as Owain/Inigo/Severa or even Anna but you get the picture. - Forging. Okay, again, a bit more subjective but dang, getting 100 copies of the same weapon over and over and having people have to farm them to make good weapons is kinda stupid. Awakening's forging was much more simple, removes the time needed to get a 7+ weapon which makes attacks so big that some S rank weapons are useless (what is the point in having them if you can forge something to be more powerful?). Weapons in general are all over the place in Fates. In birthright, iron weapons are typically better than silver because of the speed reliant units. They also screwed up the balancing of hidden weapons and made them the new ranged physical weapons... I am appreciative of the other weapon balancing though. Fates: - The visuals and map design were outstanding. I do think that some of the maps were a bit gimmicky (snow? really? whyyyy?). Its much better than the old route the enemy or get to this point style maps. - Classes and skills. Much more balanced this time around and much more classes to play around with. - (Okay so I will edit this later but I need to go, so for the time being, have the skeleton of what I want to write out)

First off, the rules are set in place for a reason. This is to make gameplay fair and that was the intent the whole time. The rules are actually only minor in the grand scheme of things. For staves, I don't think they should be banned. Using a unit to debuff another means you have to use a turn AND place yourself in a vulnerable position to do so. If you have delved in to PvP with Fates, the josephine build the most over-powered yet and this is why -breaker skills are banned when in conjunction with each other and limited. Remember, this is about balance, not necessarily keeping track of a minor number (just a side note, its not just tomebreaker, its all -breaker skills). Logbooks are banned so that point is moot. With galeforce, you don't use it independently and that is the point. When used in conjunction with pure offence skills, it is crazy OP. Even with just the 'bare minimum', it can still pass off as being really powerful. Banning certain skills limits a lot of gameplay and strategies and also brings what smogon did wrong in to question. When the OP skills are removes, other skills become the staple OP skills and will be used instead which means we would just end up using these boring characters with boring skills. With boots, the whole idea of this is to create a file purely for PvP. This means that your units will need to be created and done before you actually get around to training them and the like. Just like pokemon, you need to plan the items and the pokemon before you use them. My issue with your rules is that it does not quite remove the problematic OP teams that are around and while tries to, just limits gameplay options while still allowing a lot of teams to slip through the cracks. That being said, I am glad you have taken the time to consider the rules and agree that the rules are a bit too specific and require working around. I just find that with this particular game that we have been given, it is necessary to do this otherwise we have the same thing over and over.

You have to remember that when comparing master ninja and heroes that master ninjas have higher speed by 3 (which makes a lot larger difference then at first glance) and have an S rank in a 1-2 ranged weapon. This is crazy stuff and I wouldn't really try comparing them because master ninja is just a much better class and is also more versatile. Hero doesn't do much in any particular role and that is its let down.

For 5. That is the standard for online multiplayer

I am actually doing VGC 17 when it comes around but thanks anyway xD I have been doing my fair share of competitive pokemon but haven't taken it seriously due to other commits but that changes as of next year. While paying $20 is a bit ridiculous, this would still be the case for anyone who bought conquest unless they relied on RNG or bought DLC. On top of this, I just think Revelation is a much better platform for it all. Venge weapons don't allow you to pick an opponent meaning that the enemy can take you down at their own pace. This is scary if you cannot counter-attack with 1 tile weapons against ranged weapons.

I had a full reply to this but my internet was being buggy and it wouldn't post. Lemme just do a quick reply to get it done though. Revelation breaks everything to begin with and just by banning it means that it is less level, it is level versatile and less balanced. Revelation brings more strategy with pairings, weapons, characters etc and will be used a base at least for now. My take on the rules was no multiple of any skill but I think this was changed. Venge weapons lose turns to attack because they are only stronger than other weapons when in defence. Otherwise, it is better to use brave weapons. Especially with quixotic, a high damage proc and galeforce as that is twice the chance to proc.

Pretty much this ^ Take your time. We aren't going anywhere fast. Besides, I won't have a team for a LONG time so its actually decent for me xD

Glad to hear we have more and more people on board with this idea. While I think it is fine to limit the royal weapons, I really don't think it is necessary. Corrin needs all the help he can get as he is stuck with the dragon weakness meaning wyrmslayer/dragon spirits will be scary. With the other weapons, they aren't completely scary but we may want to look in to this a bit more. Lethality in our rules can only be used once on a unit anyway along with aegis and pavise. The combination may need to be restricted though as tanking everything and waiting for lethality proc is a fair annoyance. With the healing skills, I guess I agree but it is probably fair to look in to it a bit more first. Venge weapons are usually fine as long as they aren't on a tanky unit. As for forging, we will most likely be allowing legal +1s tops. The problem with venge weapons is you a) lose that first turn to attack, b) miss out on a lot of attacking opportunities and c) rely on the enemy not being able to effectively counter your unit. Using a seal mid-game requires a turn and wastes a lot of inventory space plus only has one use. Probably not that useful to begin with. Hoshidan unity is not a hugely OP skill but with our rules, it is already limited anyway. Our rules already counter anything OP about breaker skills much like yours. Boots is still in controversy but the general rule at the moment is banned. I personally think this is better as it can make flier teams even more ridiculous and also allows for some crazy support staff that is a little on the OP side.

I would be in but I don't know how I will go with time restraints due to year 12/grade 12. Are you aiming to win or aiming to make a good team or just a fun team? I need to know what I should build up first.

I just got off holidays but once I am a bit free on work, I will make a team, do a run and battle people some time with these rules to help trial them. That's a shame D: I am just glad people are jumping on board the idea and contributing to be honest and any input is appreciated. Of course there is going to be disagreement at some point, we can't create perfect rules that work for everyone but we are trying to make it somewhat free without making it a hugely boring meta game. I would bump up galeforce because as soon as it claims that kill, that is potential to kill another. It also means that you don't need warp if planned right. Lets say a galeforce unit finished up a tanky unit which was just rallied. That galeforce unit can then also take out that rally/support character. This is even worse if it is a flying unit with 10 unit which gives them an effective 20 movement if it picks up a kill. Breaker skills as stand alone are decent but when combined, they become downright a pain such as josephine builds so seperate I would chuck them in A and combined in S. The ability that hits hard on puppets doesn't work from what I read in its description. Apparently it only works on the NPC battle units within my castle. If any of the proc skills are used in a particular set, they can become much more dangerous. Draining abilities are moot in pvp. You need a reliable 2-3 kills for it to even start to make a difference and on one unit. It is better reserved for something else. In the case of Midori, her personal only effects luck based skills and not skill based skills so sol would not gain the bonus but something like miracle or dragon ward would. It is probably unnecessary to put skills and characters in to tiers. By limiting skill combinations through rules and by limiting classes, half of these problems are mitigated. We have already discussed forged weapons and agree that they should be limited at the very LEAST. Thank you for your contributions. Stick around and play a game if you have time.

PvP is a mess but some of us are looking to fix it so its kinda just a one track mind thing for me right now. For story, not so much if you include galeforce. It allows you to either clear the area or retreat. Not to mention that you have multiple units and those units can all use replicate...

You were doing the ! format right haha. I guess it is worth trying out but I am still against the whole multiple of same classes. This is just something a lot of people have experienced. I can try making a team for when we get the whole ruleset pvp off the ground but I don't think I will have one by then. This is just in the trial stages for now so a lot can be changed. We included these in our rules already :D

I was mainly talking about pvp but that doesn't mean its a write off. Counter was good for streetpass teams in awakening and quixotic works well in and out. Quixotic is not on the same line as counter and is more offensively based. Because within the main story, enemies tend not to have many procs and generally, each unit on your team is going to have a proc, it is a decent skill. My castles also allow really early access to this skill.

Felicia is magic based and Dywer is a physical child so it is probably best to change this pairing. Selkie wants a speedy mother and Oboro is mainly going to give her defensive mods so she is better off with someone else. Asugi is best fit for speed and physical so it is tricky but Hana should do okay.

I disagree with this list wholeheartedly. I have done a lot of research in to the pvp scene, the meta, played through it myself (only minor since I don't have all the dlc or much time) and the game has been out for a year. First off, if a team of kinshi knights with warp, galeforce, replicate and 2 offensive skills play against you, you might as well give up. It is broken, boring and takes the fun out of pvp. These skills are literally everywhere for a REASON. They aren't just chucked on the units for the sake of being chucked on. Replicate is pretty much a vantage at full hp but also gives a sort of brave weapon/galeforce effect too as you can attack on your terms 8 times with brave weapons. That is uber powerful in a game with only 5 units. Pair this with galeforce and bam, that is 4 units you can kill and 16 attacks you can put in to 1 unit. Because pvp is about killing the opponent in one turn, all you need is one turn of retreating to set up replicate anyway. You can even pair up replicate units with themselves (although this limits your over-all attack capabilities). In the case of tonics, again, all you have to do is move out of range and set them up along with replicate and the like. The boosts from a rainbow tonic are much more potent then most weapons can provide. With staves, we have not banned them but reduced them. Two rescues and a unit with warp is still enough to get 2/3 units in to attack without galeforce or replicate. Same classes is a huge rule. We did this to minimise boring OTKO teams that just swarm you with kinshi knights, dark fliers, warp witches & snipers as well as master ninjas. These teams are not only OP but take the fun out of pvp. While you claim that they run these at their own risk, there really is no risk other than someone managing to chuck an enemy out of the 10 range of a warping kinshi knight in which case, that enemy can't retaliate anyway. Pvp has limited tactics and the major one is OTKOing which kinshi knights are the best classes for. Tier lists are also necessary to stop people from using all of these OP classes. The only objective of the tier list is to limit S rank classes and possibly A rank classes so they aren't a plague. For example, if we let people use 2 S rank classes, 2 A rank classes and 1 of the C rank classes, it diversifies teams, creates strategies and limits things such as kinshi knight, master ninja, dark falcon, sniper, witch teams that could spawn off of not having this rule. In the case of breaker stacking, they really are OP. When used in swordmaster or lodestar which ALREADY have high avoid, they can gain a 100% avoid rate pretty easily and are pretty much only countered by the weapons that they didn't get breakers for (axes already have an appalling hit chance so might as well not bother with axebreaker). The best build in pvp atm is a female Corrin with 4 breakers and nohrian trust who is S ranked to Jakob (personal skill) who has aegis, pavise, lethality, miracle and filler. This is a really stupidly broken build. Even if you hit, aegis/pavise will trigger and even if you hit and proc something amazing for the finishing blow, miracle will trigger. Meanwhile, the hagakure blade will clean up anything that the unit attacks. Breakers are OP. With my castle seals, we never actually put any restrictions on them. This is just my opinion on things though.

Even create another post for the trial itself. I will join in, granted I can actually set up a decent team

Because we all have bold stance don't we? xD

Sure, quixotic is a double edged sword but if you talk about story than it doesn't really work against you much at all. If you are talking about pvp, tanky builds that you cannot do much damage to no matter the combo (depending on class etc), lethality instantly means you don't need to worry about them. Because pvp is all about killing your opponent in one turn, with brave weapons, this can give a 4x chance of it getting a proc. Not to mention one of the more viable builds in pvp with nohrian trust such as a josephine, works excellently with lethality.

Or just use galeforce, spendthrift, life and death with any decent damaging proc. Again, I know other builds are more useful and more practical. Lethality though, still is 'useful'. The only problem with it is proc rate. You use 2 skills to mostly guarantee a kill with that build and this uses 3 to guarantee it. I am not suggesting it is the pinnacle of all builds but that it is useful. If lethality procs, all other procs are moot.

As long as you don't use the royals in PvP then I would say it isn't a problem. Hacked stats, items and weapons. Yeah, 5 +7 omega yatos is just overkill.

I do see your point and I do not exactly like lethality myself but if the proc rate is that high and you only need to do 1 point of damage to trigger it, you can kill most things in your path with ease. I know there are much better skill sets and I personally prefer not to use it but when this works, it works well. EDIT- Lethality is literally an instant kill so its undeniably powerful.

That is arguable. If a unit has quixotic, hoshidan unity, skilltaker, lethality in a skill heavy class... Stuff goes down...

And then they go online and ruin everyone else's experience of the game? I am fine with it so long as they keep it to their 'my castles' and whatever else but as soon as they go online and play pvp, it is not fun for those who play without cheats.

Yeah, in that case it would be fine. I don't mind aptitude because it pretty much just saves money from eternal seals. When its against other players, its not fun or cool to have those skills.

My personal opinion on this would be to chuck her in wyvern lord or berserker. You could even chuck sol on her from hero if you want extra survivability as a wyvern lord.