leesangstar10

why would I use this over dancer? Does the same thing, but better utility since you can dance. Sylvain using black magic is such a meme build. He has a 30% mag growth and base 5 mag. With no class growths(doesn't matter much anyways), by lvl 40 hes gonna reach 17 mag on average. Never gonna kill anything.

You have to recruit Caspar for Mercedes paralouge(and c-support for Annette and Gilbert for their paralogue) Option A: recruit Catherine and do(more than one combination): Gilbert+Annette, Dimitri+Felix, Dedue+Flayn, Ashe+Caspar, Catherine+Seteth Option B: recruit Shamir(only one combination): Gilbert+Annette, Dimitri+Felix, Dedue+Shamir, Ashe+Caspar, Flayn+Seteth Option C: recruit anybody else that can A-support Seteth. This includes leonie, Hilda, Bernie, Manuela Gilbert+Annette, Dimitri+Felix, Dedue+Flayn, Ashe+Caspar, [a-support]+Seteth Option D: recruit anybody else that can A-support Felix. This includes Leonie, Lysithea, Bernie, Dorothea Gilbert+Annette, Dimitri+Dedue, Seteth+Flayn, Ashe+Caspar, [a-support]+Felix There are tons of other combination. Personally, I recommend Linhardt(he can just pair with Caspar) since he has both physics(having another is nice) and warp. Lysithea is a good choice since you get one more unit that can deal lots of magic dmg(mercedes is going to just heal all the time) and warp. And Catherine cause if you recruit her early she can be broken and make mid game a breeze. Lvl 9 unit with swordmaster bases is insane.

Sniper could work for him too if you need more player phase unit like Sylvain. Personally, I always grab hit+20 for all my bowknights to actually be able to hit 4 range. I would say switch Petra out with Hilda mainly because of ch 13. Your main roster only has 3 units useable by turn 3 of ch 13. I would say replace her with Lorenz. Again because of ch 13. Yes. Even if you are not planning on going wyvern lord, she should still train in axe to become wyvern rider. Making her assassin or any other advance class kinda makes her worse imo than Pegasus knight. It also shouldn't be that difficult since you would only need C in axes for a chance to pass(flying requirement should be met at this point so no worry there) Personally, I think wyvern lord is a better class for her cause more damage. Also you can still use windsweep as wyvern lord. Falcon knight provides no benefit when using a sword other than skill exp. Also in the current main roster, there is only one axe user so even more reason to make her into wyvern.

I mean you could also buy gifts. Uh but she is still prefers to dance rather than heal though. I rather just make Mercedes do all the healing and have Marianne dance. Using Lysithea anyways so no need for another warp(I'm assuming no ltc) If you spend your monastery time wisely, then no. Whenever you are at the monastery you should never do dining cause you can just use flowers/gifts for motivation, do tournaments for prof rank and just train Byleth(and gardening too, but thats obv). Gauntlets arent that great at late game. imo I think it is the better class for him. Also people dont realize but you can just recruit units but not use them. So you can still use weapons like thunderbrand and luin and not use said unit.

I recommend you to get DB on him either along the way or through grind. Hit+20 is imo optional for him since he already has it as his personal. So don't stress to much about picking up 2 skills from intermediate. Also don't worry about having too many bow users. Bows are the best weapon so you should be using them. It could at least be a secondary choice for units like Byleth and Petra. For all my maddening run I had at least half of my team had a bow weapon in their inventory. Wyvern lord are amazing so dw about having too many. Catherine is so busted. She makes the mid game rlly easy especially if you recruit her early. Base > growths. You could also make her a permanent adjutant for Sylvain/Felix. Thats basically +6 dmg for Sylvain and Felix if he use brave/gaunlets. Its not like Wyvern Lord cant do player phase damage. Byleth with DB and brave axe should be enough. If you pick Marianne as your dancer I would use Mercedes The current team lacks a lot of healing. Marianne has limited physics use and Lysithea only has heal for healing. both don't have +10 heal that comes with Bishop. Mercedes's healing abilities is better so I'd pick her. However, if you really want to use Linhardt, change Marianne to Bishop to have 2 good physics user. Your dancer can be anybody else. I'd recommend Lorenz cause he also has a boon in riding and house unit so he will be able to actually contribute for ch13 instead of being dead weight. Might be difficult though since he has terrible base charm.

To me I didn't find any dlc battalions that great imo. The maids(i forgot the names) are decent, but not amazing. I would say it is prob the most accurate, but I would include battalions that have gambits such as: Dance of the goddess. Absolutely ridiculous how good it is. Should def be added. Retribution. Or at least make special note of kingdom archer cause it is so early and can help you deal with annoying enemy archers. Impregnable wall. Imo this is pretty good especially in maddening.

Imo Alois should be in C at least for CF. His availability is very bad especially in this route cause part 2 is shorter. Can't master skills like QR and DB as quickly before the last map. For Alois vs Caspar debate, ppl said that Caspar is better cause late recruited stats are similar to Alois, but Caspar has the flexibility to pick up useful skills like DB and others(me included) said Alois is better for overall stat and weapon proficiency. For now I just had them in a tie. Jeritza, while has insane stats, skills, and proficiency, he's only available for 1/3 of the game. Its like the same argument ppl make for fe7 how athos is S tier. Early game contribution > late game contribution. Dedue has better stats and personal; however, I do feel A is actually to high cause his late game contribution isn't that great. I am thinking about getting rid of C tier cause the gap between C+ units and C units isn't that big.

so is it an argument then? 1) Can you tell EXACTLY what is wrong. Dont tell me it is wrong, but why. You just characterize data and never really make a point. That isn't telling me if I underrated or overrated a unit. 2) So am i suppose to look at every single post and comment on everything? I got places to be, Im sure you got places to be as well. Im not perfect there are things that I will overlook and I apologies for that. 3) I only pointed out yuri because that is the one thing I disagree with you. The rest is fine. 4) You accuse me of attacking people.That is pretty hypocritical considering you attack people. evidence:

Literally nobody mentioned dancer yuri but me and it was for a question based on his relic ring whether if canto works on everybody or just him, and it turns out it works on everybody so he's not the best dancer. At least I am consistent in what I say. Also you quoted the whole thing. So I'd assume you also wanted to talk about the tier list as well, my bad for misunderstanding. My bad for not being specific enough. Your response was "Hapi has a good spell list" and such. That is just stating facts/evidence. Be more specific. Say "I think you underrated/overrated x unit cause of [some fact/evidence]. I think x unit should be in A tier" or something like this. You just telling me that this unit is good doesn't help me or this tier list. Sure I agree that the rules could use some improvements. I don't think it is the best hence why I changed it before. Isn't this technically team synergy... Idk just rescue alone I feel isn't enough to bump her a tier above, but I am still considering moving her up. Maybe, for now hes at least top of C. (recruited them in a new game+ file so not knowing this is my fault lol) yeah i'll just assume players beaten cindered shadow. Honestly might move them up cause my dumbass thought they had recruitment requirement cause most ppl do think they should be higher.

For now I assumed the player hasn't beaten cindered shadows. I am debating whether if I should assume so or not.(Also i did not know this until now) I mean it really depends if people think we should or not(i could also put in two diff placing like how i did with Sylvain) You should take a good look at the rules that I put in the OP. I don't consider dancers. Anybody can be a dancer and be at least A tier. I am considering putting dancer in the tier list though. Also just because he has the ring, doesn't mean he is the only one that can use it. For example, Felix could do the exact same build but better since he has a better str growth, proficient with bow from the start. Well I clearly stated that this is a general summary of the changes. This doesn't apply to everybody(I even stated lysithea as an exception). It is still a better alternative than warlock for most units(especially annette) and it is enough reason for most female mages to get a bump at least cause their mov problem is fixed in the mid game. To be more specific, I haven't finished using them(I recruited them in the middle of a playthrough). Also if you are going to critique my list please at least tell me what is wrong. Sure I realized that I underrated Hapi but tell me [insert unit] should be at [insert tier] cause he/she has amazing [insert reason]. Also I mentioned this, but please look at the rules I put in the OP. I am rating them individually. Just because a route comes with said unit doesn't mean the player themselves have to use that unit. [also these placing may seem lower than they should be as i didn't know they are instant recruit if you beat cindered shadows] Again nobody is reading the rules. This is getting really annoying. Now thinking about it, honestly Caspar should be moved down cause he's getting doubled no matter what. Changes: Hapi B->B+ Caspar & Alois C+ -> C Balthus C->C+ Debating where to put Raph now

yeah most ppl r saying trickster/sniper which imo are below average to average end game classes. Its hard for him to become a top tier class without requiring lots of investment. And now in the OP I have included the new units and changes General gist is: female mages got bumped/stayed(except lysithea) rip male mages cross recruitment unit is bumped down. New units placing(will be the same all routes): Constance B+, Hapi B, Yuri B, Balthus C. Explanation for these units will be posted eventually.

I don't think we really should consider renown for tiering/the limited amount of free Abyssian Exam Passes. I mostly agree with this. Personally I still think physics is better imo but yeah recover has become a lot better. Dorothea is the only one I am not sure if she really got buffed or not because it requires lots of investment for her to get to dark flier, but all the other female mages def got buffed. its his proficiency spread that makes him a very awkward unit; however, he has an advantage of getting windsweep early at c+ in swords where everybody else gets it at a. I honestly think his best class is mortal sevant or possibly bow knight/sniper. Haven't used him yet so can't tell.

okay cause I remembered it being secondary effect only apply to crest bearers. Maybe im getting confused with sacred weapons.

y can't ur other archers like claude and leonie do this as well? They still have a good enough hit rate with curve shot. And I don't consider enemy terrain advantage cause then you aren't playing optimally. Included in the OP rules. Because thats so many factors to consider. Not everybody is going to use their in house units. Heck some people in other games like FE7 don't even use their main lords. Just because they are required to deploy/in the same house does not mean you have to use them. If I do, then I can argue something like this: Sylvain is op cause he can get +15 free damage from +6 from supports from ingrid and felix, +5 standing next to Hilda for her and his own personal, and +4 from Annette. On maddening they are pretty bad. None of them double cause of tomes r heavy and can one shot. Fiendish blow is not enough to one shot. They are also stuck with 4 move until master(I haven't really taken account of dlc classes yet, but either way males mages r screwed). Sure you can use break shot, but you have to take in account that is investing in two proficiencies. I rather focus on one proficiency to get better spells. Also they dont have that many spell uses early game during noble/commoner phase. They literally can attack like 4 times. Sure they could use actual weapons but its like hitting someone with a wet noodle. But for basically any unit, getting to S rank in authority without instruction requires grinding. Also quick question, does yuri's ring give canto to any unit holding it or just him/crest bearers? Cause if it is only him, Yuri is the best dancer no question. Literally fixes the one problem dancers have, staying behind. Imo thats kinda broken.

Personally I find +20 not that impressive until you can reclass to an archer. You can just combat art spam curve shot and that's usually enough for any archer to hit reliably so his early game isn't that amazing. And going to the magic route doesn't do much for him. He only has 30% growth rate and base 5. On average, he's never going to go over base mage class. So his physic range isn't going to be that great. I'd rather bench him and recruit a diff physics user than make him to a mage. Just dismount then if there is an archer in range. Also what makes M! Byleth better? Theres no male locked class that makes Male Byleth better other than maybe warmaster(which imo is not his optimal class). We are looking at units individually so there being only one battalion shouldn't affect it. And as mentioned in the rules too, we are not counting team synergy, also that is very niche imo and shouldn't be really factored. Except mage classes are super underwhelming in this game. And of course, team synergy should be a reason why a unit should be ranked higher. I agree early game he's pretty good, but falls off super fast.

Honestly its a better grappler, but thats not saying much. The only good thing you get is brawl avo, but i rather be war master for superior end game class(if im going to infantry). Depends on what route you are talking about, but overall Imo its either lorenz or Caspar. Dorothea imo isn't contender for worst cause dark flier made her much better. C in flying isn't that hard and meteor+flying utility imo makes her decent.

Never found a point using it. Usually all my battalions on my units are alive with yellow or red health by the end of a map. After I can just replenish it. I could see it useful early game where battalions are so weak, but it requires B in authority.

It seems that there is a huge empathize on war master and a unit's placement is determined on whether if they can be a good war master or not. I think your tier list is accurate if war master was the best class; however, it is commonly agreed that wyvern lord/falcon knight is the best.

First impression Yuri: Can't tell what his optimal class is cause he has a pretty bad proficiency spread. His growths are great, but bad in axes, lances, flying, riding. Makes him hard to become wyvern, bow knight, and such. trickster/mortal sevant might actually be his best class lol. To me he has the same problem with Catherine and Manuela of optimal class, but at least Manuela has warp and Catherine has amazing mid game and bases(could also become Falcon knight). Most likely B or C+. Balthus: Basically raph but could become okay war monk. Imo he is worse than raph cause raph gets battalion warth, but either way C Constance: Lysithea but bad speed and gets rescue instead of warp. Offensively I would say Constance is better since she makes better use out of dark flier and spd really doesn't matter. I prob would put her B+ Hapi: Prob B. Similar to Hubert but a bit better cause she could become Valkyrie These are just first impression and the tier list prob has to be re done cause of Dark flier

No. Assassin is infinitely better. As people mentioned before, I would use it for wrath/vantage build, but it is too niche for me.

Welp dlc dropped with new characters and new classes that affects the tier list. I haven't used the new features yet(still finishing cinder shadow), but here's a general gist of what I think. Female mages got a buff cause of dark flier. Not sure how much, but dark flier in my opinion is the better end game class for female mages than dark knight. Still early, but we will see. Unsure about valkyrie viability. Helps the transition to dark knight easier. Trickster imo is an underwhelming class, but the mastery skill is nice. Would be useful for ltc possibly, but in a non ltc tier list pretty sure it isn't that good. Can provide support and a good class for manuela, but imo bishop is better for her for double warp use. War monk: Why would you class change into this class. Its basically grappler that can use faith spells. Bad class imo. It still early and I might have looked over some things, but I think female mages deserve a bump. Unsure about the placement of the new character cause I gotta actually use them lol. Whats your guys' opinion? (Also prob not going to do cindered shadow tier list cause theres only 11 units. I see no point rlly cause you are using everybody)

I was thinking just equipping a non offensive faith skill to avoid tank for healers. +20avo from skill, +20(or so) from spd. But honestly I usually have my healers equip some kind of light weight spell. If we are doing Astra we should just do swordmaster just cause Astra is so hated. Honestly we could just do Hero/Swordmaster since they both share the common problem, being inferior to assassin. (Ig hero has worse because its stat modifier is inferior to assassin and swordmaster) But yeah I nominate Hero/Swordmaster

huh thats interesting and kinda funny. Never knew that. I was mainly arguing that they shouldn't be in the same tier, but he def should be out of C tier. Im wondering, is Caspar worse on black eagle routes vs other routes cause his bases r so bad early. If he was recruited later, he can auto level to the point where his bases aren't that big of a deal.

Its awarding units that have more flexibility. Like mages you normally want to recruit as early as possible, but Leonie you can recruit early or late and she still be pretty viable. Idk we could still tweek the rules I am down for that. Ishmael did say that late recruitment fixes his bases so I assumed you are recruiting Caspar around that chapter. Hmmm still having difficulties placing him. Ig he can be out of C tier at least in B for now since Alois is B. Honestly thinking about it, I feel Caspar is better outside his route since you don't have to be stuck with terrible bases. Idk maybe Claude is better than mByleth. idk maybe dlc will give a good exclusive male class. One thing that bothers me though is that Ashe is in the same tier as Caspar for AM. Ig i could just move Alois and Caspar down a tier, but not sure.

Assuming you get Caspar at lvl 23: Caspar: hp:47 str:26 mag:9 dex:15 spd:16 lck:17 def:15 res:4 cha:11 Alois at ch11 at lvl21 Alois: hp:50 str:27 mag:8 dex:12 spd:15 lck:12 def:18 res:8 cha:16 Their stats look pretty similar(not sure where you got Alois being much slower). But considering Alois has better Authority rank(C vs E), comes with weight-3(and could get smite at B), respectable charm stat, and no recruitment investment needed, I would say Alois should be rated at least a tier higher than Caspar, but at the very least should be higher.