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leesangstar10

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Everything posted by leesangstar10

  1. But y would he be in the same tier as alois. Alois has sim bases(pretty sure his is better but not sure) and comes with weight-3 and overall better ranks. If you actually want to have a good enemy phase late game, yes. Avoid tanking is really the only way for units to be good enemy phase.
  2. huh I thought she starts E. Welp ig i was wrong. Never thought about using meteor for linked attacks will use it. I am not counting team synergy so her support with few Deers would not affect her rating. hmm compelling enough argument to make her a tier above Hannaman at least, I still do think she is worse than Raphael on VW though. Im just not sure if she deserves to be in the same tier as Lysithea for CF and SS(ig i could make Lysithea higher) I never found Fallen Star to be particular good. It only lets you dodge one attack guarantee. I found waiting+alert stance to be better. I don't think Byleth getting Weight-3 is that hard imo. I usually do monastery 2-3 times a month. I can just train with Alois each time(and eventually Gilbert) and should be able to get it by ch 5. Weight-3 isn't the only skill though, he could get healing focus and alert stance+ earlier than Claude. Also if we need to consider early game. mByleth is better early game than Claude who imo is the worst out of the three lords in early game wise. I rather have a unit that has a better early game vs better late game.
  3. Well this doesn't apply to all units. Just the ones mentioned. Also its better to attack at range so you don't take retaliation dmg since hammer doesn't kill in one hit(or at least from what I saw). I had base magic seteth almost kill an armor knight with bolt axe, I'm pretty sure at least Edelgard can kill without using helm splitter.
  4. I think it is possible. Lysithea really only needs B in faith, so after that you can just focus only on reason for tutoring. Of course if you are going for dark knight then it is impractical. I mean you could use a black pearl which I believe you get by then. I personally wouldn't change him to a dancer, but it is an option. Imo i found Dedue still useful late game. Dedue could actually tank the annoying sword masters and assassin with some combo of stat boosters/meal, silver/sieros shield, Duscar battalion(forgot name), and personal. And if you get QR he becomes the only one that can actually kill sword masters and assassin. Def not as useful as he was early, but acceptable.
  5. I dont remember his bases being that good for auto level. Hilda at least train both lance and axe for auto level so she can promote to wyvern easier. You would only have to train flying with the added bonus of pegasus if recruited early+armor hidden talent. Mercedes I agree see, but I'd argue with Dorothea. One mages are not that good in Maddening and imo her offensive capabilities is worse. She doesn't train in faith and initially bad at it(unlike the other physic healers who gets it when you recruit them). She realistically isn't that relevant for most part of the game. At least Raphael is decent early(not that great of a tank but something) As mention before, damage wise he isn't going to do that much more using a bow. When Byleth uses axe he's going to do more dmg vs Claude bow. Spd wise the difference isn't that big. Claudes on average is 3 more spd but Byleth can get other weapon ranks like -3 weight and alert stance earlier and could use magic weapons to better kill armor knights. Claude has better combat art , but the options that Byleth have imo is what makes Byleth better. Still they r very close. I agree mainly because I believe that there should be 2 tier difference between Linhardt and Lysithea. Lysithea can get warp much earlier and is in house. If we are valuing warp as Ishmael, then Lysithea should be bottom of S and Linhardt A.
  6. Imo I think you should drop ashe for leonie because exp is scared in maddening. Ashe isn't that good tbh and I would say the worst unit out of all the blue lion students. You could make him your dancer if you are worried about ch 13. Dancers don't necessarily have to have good spell list since most of the time they are, well going to dance. But I think you should be fine since you got a flying Byleth that can fly. Recommend Catherine or Shamir because of base advance class. Makes the mid game easy imo. Lysithea's class path is fine, but i recommend instead of bow breaker, go for dark tome flaire. You can get it early enough because of her personal. Personally I found bow knight Felix to be better. Also I found that having too many fliers isn't that good because there isn't many flying battalions. I would recommend making Sylvain a palidin for swift strike+lance flaire(class)+DB+lance flaire(from S+ lance) and other good skills like +mov or lance lvl5
  7. Its probably Lorenz thats the advising student then since he always tries to correct Claude.
  8. Personally, I found it to be useful on Seteth too. He has a decent magic growth to make actual use out of it. Just having the option to 3 range should be enough of a reason to be consider usable. Mages with 3 range option r better than mages without 3 range even if they do more damage. Ex Lorenz with Ragnorok. Its good chip dmg and better at killing armor knights than hammer. I agree that levin sword is better, but still not entirely useless. Its just good on some characters vs the other skills/class we talked about are utter garbage for anybody. Can we talk about faith lvl 5th(or just any of the levels). I feel its trash since most mages' offensive faith spell is nosferatu. Even if they get other spells, I feel magic accuracy is enough and rather put magic+2. I could see Byleth nosferatu avo+tanking build, but tbh being a flier is much better.
  9. sorry for the late response in the rules i do state no team synergy. So 3 warp users is something I wouldn't consider. I feel like I may need to be more specific on the rules. I still think this is too LTC focused, as mentioned this tier list isn't meant for that. I feel efficiently was not well defined as it should have so I'll try fixing that. I'd have to argue on your placement with Caspar. He at least should be below or same tier as ashe since it is easier for ashe to promote to wyvern and much better bases. I agree with Cyril and admit I have been underrating him(i think personal bias got the best of me). Hanneman is really this high up solely because yes his spd sucks but so do the other mages(maybe except lysithea) sucks. In a way, mage's inability to double on maddening buffed him since he has one of the better dmg output among the mages and he has 3 range. Of course his utility isn't that good thou, but I argue he is just as good as hubert. I dont want to over value warp since like i said this isn't ltc. Annette personally I think should stay cause when you get her, rallies aren't as good as it was in the beginning. Also I dont understand why you would put Mercedes at C but Flayn at A.Their utility is about equal(imo Mercedes is better), but Mercedes has the advantage of being recruited earlier. Also putting much thought into it, I personally think mByleth is better than Claude. Sure Claude has a better class, but their dmg output is about the same since Byleth has 2 more str at base and will have 1.5 more str than claude(assuming when through the same class line) by level 30. As wyvern master, Claude would do 0.5 more dmg with a silver bow than wyvern rider Byleth with a silver bow(rider has 2 str bonus vs master +1 str bonus) Update: Have included blue lion explanation. Will edit again later. All list Hannaman and Dorothea went down a tier Hubert down a tier Cyril in AM and VW went up a tier Hilda and Ashe down a tier in AM Claude below mByleth
  10. Could you tell me why Cyril is better recruited at level 21? Doesn't he use his non aptitude growths and commoner class growths for auto level? His bases are already bad as is. Also should I place Dorothea a tier below Hubert? I feel like Hubert provides much more early game than Dorothea. When she gets physics it doesn't stay relevant long enough. I feel recruit!Marianne will get physics around the time Dorothea will get it so they should be in the same tier. I still think Dorothea is better but not a tier difference tbh.
  11. Dodge tanks imo is reliable enough where its not rng divine pulse abusing. You can reliably get +100 avoid (+10 evansion ring, +30 alert stance+, +15 weapon lvl, +10 avoid flier skill, +25 spd +10 battalion)- rough estimation btw. Idk how I feel being like being able to effectively kill one boss for one map seems a little too niche for me. I will put Lysithea up top of A+ but not S for now because I forgot she is the best warper. Update on list: Moved Ingrid down to B+ on non house routes. Seeing now how I overestimated her auto level. Idk I do find it weird that shes on the same tier as petra though. Yeah Petra auto level stats are better, but she trains in swords and axes making it harder for her to promote to wyvern but thats just my opinion. Also debating on Cyril's placement. I believe he should stay where he is for SS, but VW and AM I feel like he deserves a bump cause of point blank volley and great proficiency spread making him flexible too. Not sure how much to bump him though.
  12. I personally found myself doing 1 week of paralogues/aux battles per month. Idk what other people do. Ig they are useful for class mastery, but idk its really hard to gauge. We could do like an average on what other ppl do. Correct. I am looking at them individually. hmmm maybe I am overestimating it. oh when I meant by rng strats I meant by using divine pulse repeatedly to get a kill or something. I've seen ppl say that Caspar is good because you could use wild abandon. Could just reset whenever he is hit and theres so much divine pulse. Im fine with min certification. I am judging them individually. Ig saying no team synergy wasn't enough. I'll change the rules so its more specific. I only suggested Bernie could provide flying utility as an option. I should prob focus on editing the OP lol.
  13. Opps sorry still work in progress. I think i meant Has terrible growths and weapon proficiency. He's only C+ in CF due to how short it is. You only get like 6 ch to use him. He's realistically not hitting it until like the last 2 chs. CF changes: Lysithea top of B+ Caspar down to C+ Annette up to C+ SS changes: Lysithea top of B+ Caspar down to C+ Hilda down to B Annette up to C+ VW changes: Annette up to C+ Thoughts? Also thanks for helping with the explanation. Honestly really need the help.
  14. I can agree with monastery usage, but stat booster and stuff I think isn't necessary with to add because if one unit can get something, so can the others unless they have bench line stats. I guess I could do that, but at least for me I want to punish units more for being later recruitable on CF since it is so short, but I just realized now I haven't really done that. I will include your description! It took me so long to even make the tier list so sorry for my explanation being crap. I plan on updating as it goes. Can't you use the knowledge gem to make the process faster? Also I said I will not consider team synergy so that does include retribution and support bonus. Personally I found her best build to be falcon knight since it gives her a better player and enemy phase. Sure hunter volley is amazing, but staying as sniper makes her player phase exclusive, but ig this gives her flexibility if you have too many fliers. Yeah opps I meant after ch5. But still Pegasus knight has the best auto level growths. Additional 15 str and 10 spd is amazing. When you recruit her early shes solid and even late her bases are absurd. She's probably the only recruitable student along with Petra that even has a chance doubling. Mages in general doesn't do that well in maddening. Shes only above Hubert due to the fact that she can also provide support. As I said not accounting team synergy. Ig frozen lance is really good early game haven't thought about that, but I don't think its really enough that I can rank him any higher than B+. Idk we'll see. Requiring B support imo is lots of investment in felix's case because you would want to recruit him fast as possible. I prob should add that to be a bit more clear. Again sorry for my shit explanation. Same with Lysithea you would want to recruit her fast as possible to get fiendish blow and early warp. I was though debating putting her in A or not though. I thought putting her higher is overrating warp, but if enough people want her up then I'll bump her. His best performance is CF and SS though. But I do agree he does suck. I might move him down. I just think he should at least be a tier above Ashe since he'll prob do better as wyvern. Again lack of utility brings him down. By the time he joins Dorothea has physics. Honestly thats whats really carrying her placement. Maybe I'm overrating it. The problem is that auto level he trains in sword and bows. So when you recruit him his authority rank isn't that high. I heard mixed opinions on the wyvern build so honestly I don't know how I would rank her in that case, but her rallies are only really useful early game. By the time you recruit her she's and get her authority rank high enough, rallies aren't going to be that useful. Okay I should prob update the description then. But I do think physics and 3 range does put her at least in B+. For in house physics users I put them all at least A except her to punish that. Yep I think I underestimated authority too much. Def should punish felix and hilda more if recruited. I feel silence is very niche. Most of my playthroughs I found just using physics on a unit is better.
  15. Made a different topic for separate route tier list since I think thats more useful. Hopefully it doesn't get closed
  16. Tier is ordered This is not LTC. I tried to be as non bias as possible. This consist of theory crafting/discussions from this forum. If there is something you disagree with tell me :). Currently working on explanation for AM. Will continue to work eventually and quote ppl. Rating criteria: This is Classic Maddening Mode. Not new game plus. So no using renown to get class mastery skills etc I WILL consider the skills/art units can get as they class change or level their weapon skills. Ex. Getting death blow from brigand along the way to wyvern lord Will consider the investment into the unit. Like how hard it is to reach the minimum certification requirement for a certain class. Ex. Difficulty of getting Dorothea to a dark knight since she is bad at riding and neutral in lance. Recruiting students will be considered investment. I will also consider late game recruitment since xp is more scarce(so does that unit have good auto levels?) Optimal plays. No unreliable luck based strats like using divine pulse to get 50% hit or killing one enemy per turn. Assume everything is available to you if possible. Ex. Thyrus on CF, Dark seals, but not Arrow of Indra on any route except CF(technically you can get it at VW but on the last map) How relevant are they throughout the whole route(being good early will rate unit higher) . Ex. If they suck early and mid gam, but good late, I am still going to give that unit a bad rating. Mount affects unit's rating a lot. Canto/dismount broken. I am judging units individually. Basically judging on their best build for a certain route. If a unit has flexible options it will be rewarded. Factors not considered: Team synergy: utility gambit, triple warp, etc Dancer class change. Anybody can be a dancer and can be really good. Grinding and new game plus features. Can make any unit good/broken Crest for a specific weapon. Technically everybody can use it. If that unit can get you a certain relic. Ex. Lorenz gets you Thyrus or Sylvains early Lance of Ruin. Technically you can get the relic, but never use the unit. What weapon they let you get access to should have no affect to their rating. Now on to the tier list *With in tiers it is roughly ordered atm. Crimson Flower Explanation(WIP): Azura Moon Explanation(WIP): Verdant Wind Explanation(WIP) Silver Snow Explanation(WIP) So let's have a healthly discussion 😉 (hopefully this doesn't get ban)
  17. I honestly think we should make a separate topic with route specific tier lists and doing an overall tier list averaging all the routes. Since everybody judges a unit differently. Some judge on best performance that unit and some judge on overall like are they good in their house and other routes? We even did this in sacred stones(while the difference isn't as big). I feel like this would provide "healthier" discussion. Thoughts? I'd be down.
  18. uhhhh but getting S+ reason, B flying, at least B in axes and faith(to get gremory), and at least D in lances seem pretty unreasonable to me considering shes bad at both axes and lances. Idk I just don't see how this isn't a lot of work without expending most if not all my resources(not to mention investing so much on her is going to hurt other units' performances) So basically you are saying a good portion of the people on this forum are bad at the game....... In all serious though, you can literally say anybody can be an enemy phase unit with a build like this. I could make say Anette is an enemy phase monster with this build.
  19. No. Because thats what healers are for. Additionally, only mages and Edelgard gets battalion renewal. Mages do not need healing since they r gonna be at the back. Even if they do need healing they can just use vulernaries. While you could say that it is nice to have on Edelgard, i find there being much more useful skills to have on her like DB and such.
  20. lol shes a player phase exclusive unit that doesn't one shot that much anymore. lol never knew that. Shows how little I've used it because its crap(at least on mages). No I don't think so because that is taking account of team synergy. People could be using different units as their main team.
  21. literally anybody with that much investment can be good like that. Sorry but I don't see this as a viable build considering it would have to take at least +500 turns to accomplish this. Her strength is a very big weakness, she caps at 30. Sure its fine if you use levin sword but against late game generals you are going to do nothing. Some help is an understatement. Setting up for a triangle attack requires so much effort and only really useful when going against a boss and all the enemy is dead. Also triangle attack is so bad its a meme. So basically you have to grind to achieve this build. Hence impossible for most players who play semi efficiently. (I say semi meaning trying to get the lowest turn count as possible but not using LTC strats like warp skip and grind little as possible) Sure you can do whatever you want in your playthrough, having fun is whats most important. But still most people are not going to achieve these builds in a semi efficient regular playthrough on maddening NG.
  22. Terrible class. Never use it on any unit. Any offensive mage should just go to dark knight or gremory. Most offensive mages like Hubert and Lysithea have a decent reason spell list(if they don't, their faith list is trash). As mentioned, theres not many offensive faith spells and they r pretty bad (lack 3 range, heavy). Faith spells are just better better at supporting and using bishop helps the most. Personally I think for Marianne she benefits more from mortal servant than holy knight. Yes you get 1 less move, but you get black and sword flair. Sword flair helps her dmg output with blutgang and black tome flair helps her dmg output with reason magic, which helps with thoron. Both still are not optimal classes for her though. Couple ways to improve it 1. Support: replace terrain res with white tome x2 and give it one more move. I think +4 move > healing +10 and it would give players more of a reward for even achieving these stupid requirements. 2. Offense: replace terrain res with white tome range +1. This helps the fact that theres no 3 range faith spells. Helps units like Lysithea and magic Byleth who have this problem. Some might think this is broken cause you could stack it with white tome range +1 from S rank faith, but I think its balance since faith spells r bad offensively. 3: Mixed: replace terrain res with lance flair. Like the idea of paladin -> holy knight.
  23. Stop talking about personal experience on a certain unit's stats. We should evaluate units based on their AVERAGE performance. We don't care about how you did in your playthrough, unless you were experimenting with some kind of build. Base magic stat is very important to look at because thats what determines a unit's early game performance, which in this case is very bad. Lorenz gets doubled by everything. He doesn't get anything that can really make up for this until B reason Ragnorock which is mid game. Also Lorenz will always be behind Lysithea magic wise. She starts with 11 mag and has 60% mag growth rate vs Lorenz terrible base 7 mag and 40% growth rate. He's already 4 mag behind and every 10 lvls she will have 2 more magic than Lorenz(.6*10 - .4*10 = 2). Nearly dead is not the same is dead enemy. That requires one more unit to attack that enemy. You are wasting a unit's player phase turn. No you do not. You get fiendish blow as a class skill for dark bishop, which doesn't stack. Still going dark bishop isn't worth it over warlock(which you can get blacktome flaire, +5 dmg). There's some miscommunication. I don't disagree with your idea of getting poison strike. If Lorenz already mastered mage, might as well get reclass and get another skill that could be useful for bosses. But I do think it is a niche skill. Poison strike+Lifetaker isn't as useful what other mages can provide. Annette can provide rallies, which is super useful early game possibly allowing you to possibly double. Dorothea, Marianne gets physics and thoron. Lysithea has warp.
  24. First not sure what you are trying to say with availability. Its just Hubert is available for one route thats it. You should just judge his performance on the one he's in. I personally think that there should be separate tier list for each route since doing an overall tier list a unit's performance varies due to availability and stuff. And yes ik what game ur talking about fe7 dw i played it, lyn is literally my propic lol. Second ig you can do that I just assumed no mage since you didn't mention it. Third I just said his magic stat is the worst out of all the magic users because of low base and mediocre growth rate. On average he will do the least amount of damage out of all the mages(except linhardt due to his low dmg spells). As mentioned above, he does get early ragnorok so thats the one time he does more damage but before and after A reason he doesn't perform as well. Forth sure hp could matter based on play style(i usually never want to have any of my mages in the front line). Also he doesn't get restore I believe, unless serenes forest is wrong. Unless you are talking about recover but every mage gets recover or physics at C(except lysithea). Yeah I get it, but what we are saying is that he is the worst mage. Does the least amount of dmg(except B reason) and offers the least support(only has recover and ward vs others that have physics, rally or warp). We are just comparing him to other units and saying why he is worse than unit abc. Just because a unit is "bottom tier" doesnt mean they are unviable.
  25. I dont see how she becomes relevant the whole game. What weapons would she use? She can't use spells in any of the class you listed above and using bolt axe is going to weigh her down a lot, she's going to get doubled by everything because of her piss poor strength, and its going to take a while to even use it(impossible to use early game). Non magic weapons are going to hit like a wet noodle. Additionally you are missing out on fiendish blow so making your early game even worse. I just don't see how in maddening she can really contribute much with these builds. Ppl mainly make fun of her being a player phase exclusive unit because shes so squishy and how ppl way overrate her. To be fair every mage is a player phase exclusive unit since all of them are so squishy.
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