-Ruby-

I really, really like the maps in RD. Every single map makes me really excited. I pick up the game and just can't put it down, because I love playing every chapter. That said, I think PoR has a better story. RD's is certainly ambitious, and really cool, but PoR feels more solid and efficient. There's also something just really nostalgic about it. Going back to play it after playing RD feels like revisiting your old friends. The music? That art, maybe? I'm allowed to factor in nostalgia when thinking of which I prefer, right? And honestly, the crappy supports in RD never bothered me. So much was happening with the plot, and we had great base conversations with every character, so I don't feel like I missed anything.

Look at his poofy shorts! :D Anyone else interested in the fashion of this game? I'm excited for avatar customization to return! I really enjoyed the European looks in XY. I'm much less familiar with Hawaiian fashion, but it looks like lots of loose, airy clothing. Cuuute!

Agreed! I married the two because their first couple conversations were pretty interesting. It seemed like they connected in a way I hadn't seen before. But then their S conversation was "let's agree to stay at a distance from each other because we both feel comfortable with that... forever, with marriage". It was bizarre. "Not enough content" is not a bad way to describe it.

OH MY GOD Tommy is the first thing I thought of as soon as I heard Hinoka's voice!! That makes everything make sense! It's not the voice I expected from her, but I think it kind of suits her. Changes my perception of her character, too. With this voice it feels like she's trying so hard at everything she does, that her voice is just a squeak... but imagine if her voice was more Laura Bailey-like, for example. It'd be more elegant and controlled. Just changes the way I interpret her. Like others said, I also have some issues with Beruka's voice. It's higher pitched than I imagine it. Nyx is also a little squeaky. My biggest issue is actually with Soleil. To be fair, Soleil's entire personality is different than I thought it'd be. Her character design looks noble and majestic. I thought she'd be a charming, musketeer-like character, with a deeper voice. As soon as I heard the valley girl-like squeak, I was super confused. Then it made more sense as soon as she said something about kitten posters in the treehouse. Still, I think I'd prefer her with huskier voice.

Ephraim! Lord foot soldier with a lance? Noble, competent, caring? Suuuuper sexy. :3 Is it bad that my favorite is the one I'm most attracted to..?

Hey guys. I don't have a fanfic idea, but I do have thoughts on Fates' story structure. I hope this is the right place to post. I didn't read all 13 pages of this thread, so I apologize for any redundancies that have already been brought up, or if what I'm saying doesn't quite fit in with the purpose of the thread. Fates' story is frustratingly bad. I think it has a whole of lot of really cool ideas, but they're not built on each other in a way that has as much emotional weight as they could. If we took a broad look at what the game wants to be, found the bare essentials, and rebuilt the story again focused on these essentials, I think the game would be a lot more cool. One of the big reasons I was frustrated by this game's story is because it simply does not live up to the hype of its marketing. So my goal is to figure out how to restructure the game so that it is just as dramatic and exciting as it looks like it should be. What does the game emphasize as things it wants to be important? What elements does it sell as awesome? What ideas are planted in your head about what this game is going to be, before you've booted it up and started playing? Azura's song. Corrin's dragon form. Azura dancing. Valla. Love and war between nations. A greater force controlling it all. A terrible, enormous secret, which the fate of the universe depends upon. And biggest of all, the idea of Corrin making an enormously important choice that affects the entire world. I think these things sound amazing. This is the game Fates wants to be. This is the game I wanted to play. But Fates isn't this. How can we structure the story so that it's built around these awesome things? Rather than the current story, which like.. brings these cool things up, but then doesn't go anywhere with them. [spoiler=Revelations discussion] The "greater force happening that controls it all" is revealed in Revelations. When the player plays through Revelations, they are supposed to feel wowed by all the secrets. These elements influence Conquest and Birthright, but the story's success ultimately rides on Revelations. This is the awesome story at its core. So I will start my thoughts here. Revelations promised in its opening sequence a couple of things it wanted to be important: Valla, the tunnel housing Anankos, and Corrin holding Azura under the water. In fact, Corrin holds Azura under the water for a solid 15 seconds. When I saw this opening, I thought for sure that meant that the ultimate conflict would be between Corrin and Azura; surely something incredible would happen between those two to devote that much time to that one scene in the opening. Of course, that didn't happen. I thought its actual climax was pretty boring. But an emotional conflict between Corrin and Azura? That's hella dramatic. So for the drama it sells with its own opening sequence, Revelations needs to ultimately be about Corrin and Azura's relationship. This tells me that Azura's character needs to be significantly more important than she is. In fact, she needs to be equally as important as protagonist Corrin. In the current Revelations, she doesn't do too much. She arbitrarily reveals the secret of Valla, and then kind of sits back as Corrin does the nonsensical legwork of recruiting everyone to help. The plot pretends she's important, but she isn't really. Her song doesn't do anything past chapter 5. She brings us to Valla and then she's basically done. The stuff with Arete was trying to make her cool and relevant again, but it... didn't really work. So what would make Azura more awesome? She's marketed as the "mysterious songstress" character. In the game's official art, she looks like some kind of arbiter of fate. Like a judge. Her position on the box art makes her look mysteriously, directly involved in Corrin's choice of fate. I think we need to amp up her mystery and plot significance. I think that'd make her way more cool than having a dead-ghost-mother subplot. Past "mysterious lady" fire emblem characters have been pretty awesome, in my opinion. Dierdre was mysterious, and was kidnapped and brainwashed before we really knew what she was. That was dramatic. That was emotional. Ninian was mysterious, and was killed at one point. That was pretty cool too. Azura is clearly this same archetype. How can we make her just as cool? She's built up as having an enormous secret. Secrets are pretty cool, and they certainly add to her mystery. You're always wondering what her agenda is, how much she knows. That's awesome. But honestly, her secret about Valla was pretty lackluster. To be just as mysterious and otherworldly as Dierdre or Ninian, she needs an even bigger secret than that. Something so enormous that it changes everything. What could this secret be, and what could happen with her in the second half of the game to make Corrin hold her under the water like that? How could we make a big reveal that makes the player go "woooaaaah"? Maybe she's kidnapped, or brainwashed, like past "mysterious songstress" characters. And at the end of the game, you meet her on the battlefield, like Julia in fe4. That's pretty dramatic. Or what if she was the mastermind behind the plot? What if she betrayed you at the very end? Or you betrayed her? Maybe her morality and yours are both grey, and there is a major disagreement right on the eve of changing the world? Or what if she's some kind of messenger of the gods, guiding you on the right path, like Levin? Is she the villain? Is she the hero? Are you the villain? Whatever it is, her secret must be big, deadly, and directly have to do with Corrin's choices. Her song and her dance in the theater are super cool, and to be relevant they must be critical to enacting her plans. And Corrin is probably integral to her goals because of his dragon form. That's probably the big secret--something about Corrin's dragon form, and the enemies she wants Corrin to slay with it, and what will happen when that happens. I think the idea of Azura really being more in control than you think she is sounds like an awesome secret for her to keep. It's always awesome to learn something about someone that gives you a completely different perspective on who they are. Like, I loved the Soren reveal at the end of fe10. Something like that. So that brings us to Valla. I think the idea of Valla is really cool: a breathtakingly beautiful alternate world, with floating islands and mysterious spiritual forces you don't understand. That's rad. But the current backstory of Valla is pretty dumb. It needs to have more weight, and what we do there needs to explicitly have heavy consequences. Rather than it being some kind of invisible kingdom (which is just.. dumb), what if it were like something like... the realm of the gods? It influences the normal world in a greater way than we can imagine, because spiritual forces reside there that control the world? That's the kind of epic vibe the game feels like it wants Valla to be. A dangerous place whose beings are powerful and difficult to understand. So Azura bringing Corrin there has to do with the plans she wants accomplished. What could she want to happen there? Does she want Corrin to slay a god? Is Azura righteous for doing this? Is she the villain? The huge, universe-changing thing she wants Corrin to do there must be something that creates a disagreement between them. And have to do with Corrin's dragon form. And that is why we had 15 seconds of draconic Corrin holding Azura under the water in the opening sequence. That is the climax. Corrin's dragon form, Azura's song and necklace, and their relationship should be the most important thing to support the game's whole theme of Corrin's choices. Revelations is the path where we finally learn the truth. That means that in this path, Corrin probably does what Azura wants him to do, so all her secrets come tumbling out. This is the choice that furthers her goals, her involvement. Do away with the nonsense about Garon and Arete and the slime monster and the curse. Just make the story about two countries at war, Azura who has a plan to change the fate of the world, and Corrin who is instrumental to her. A grand, terrible plan, a magic island world, and uncontrollable dragon powers. Trim the fat. Amp up the importance of her singing a song about fate. It must be made explicit how it affects Corrin's dragon form. How much control does she have over him? A lot? Is that why he's holding her under the water in the climax, because he's betraying her control? Punishing her, maybe? I don't have answers to these ideas yet. But I think, in general, structuring the story this way would be a lot more romantic, emotional, and interesting than the game currently is. Revelations tries to tie up plot threads with nonsense: something about a kingdom nobody's heard of and no one can talk about, and a dead mother, and a terribly nonsensical family tree, and things that seem like they should be important but ultimately aren't. Do away with the nonsense. Start from the bones, and then fill in the necessary supporting details. Based on its own marketing and cinematics, this seems like the game that Revelations wants to be. [spoiler=Conquest/Birthright discussion] So how does this big plot affect Conquest and Birthright? The game clearly wants to hint at secrets in Conquest/Birthright, so that the player pays more money to find out the answers to the secrets in Revelations. The way the game currently is structured, the secrets revealed in Revelations are lame, and the plot is anticlimactic. It isn't really worth the money. So how can we rewrite these two games so that they are awesome on their own, but playing Revelations makes them more awesome? How do we make that feeling of "woooaahhh" when the player finally finds out the big, world-changing secret in Revelations? I think it has to come down to Azura's relationship with Corrin, and how Corrin's choice affects her plans. Why did her grand plot not play out if Corrin chose to participate in the war? Why did she keep her secrets in these paths? Why did the events of Revelations only happen when Corrin chose neither side? The opening sequences of Conquest/Birthright still emphasize Valla, and Corrin holding Azura under the water, but to a lesser amount. So some of that "grand plot" still needs to leak through, but not much. Some major disagreement between Corrin and Azura still needs to happen. Perhaps one that hints just enough to tell players she's up to something, but not enough to spill the secrets. The way the games actually handled this is done poorly, in my opinion. I remember in Conquest, you're transported to Valla for one chapter, only to escape immediately and Azura tells you nothing. It was dumb. It was lame. We were left hanging, and nobody brought it up again or thought to explain it. How could that have been handled better? In my opinion, it could be handled better by revealing a small part of the secret during the climax. Similar to my proposed idea for Revelations, if we make Azura become super important in the climax--such as, maybe she betrays you, or she fights you somehow, and it has to do with her role in the fate of the world--and then resolve what Corrin decides to do with her and her secrets, I think that is way more awesome. If we make the final climax hinge on the fact that Azura has secrets, then it is much more cool and interesting that she has secrets. And we don't get the "she knows something, but you just don't get to know what it is" nonsense that the games currently pull. Conquest and Birthright are for playing out the grey-grey morality war, and tying Corrin's role in the war to the fate of the universe, and then revealing that a greater force is at work and it all comes back to Azura and her secrets, and then having conflict between Corrin and Azura--and then taking care of her before all her secrets are revealed, because Corrin decided to do this path instead of Revelations. So the war has to influence the fact that we don't learn all of her secrets, somehow. Maybe we learn all her secrets in Revelations because we go to Valla, and in Valla we stop a great plot, but in these games since we don't go to Valla, the great plot comes to us? Some kind of "great-god-taking-over-our-world" plot? And in Revelations, maybe we stop it before it happens? I am not sure how to fit these pieces together, myself. But I know there must be a way to make it work and not feel like a cop-out to the player. You guys have tons more great ideas for how to make the war between Hoshido and Nohr more interesting. I am more concerned with figuring out how this war could relate to Azura's great world-changing secret in a way that's better than in the current game. Does anyone have an idea? Again, the game already tries to do a lot of these things that I bring up. But the game handles them poorly, and flounders about, and then makes up nonsense plots to try to fix it, because the game's writing loses focus. I think approaching it this way makes it much simpler, and more dramatic. [spoiler=Other things] Some small things that I think could be modified for a better, more interesting game. Azura's song bothers me because the lyrics are very explicit... the song is clearly a "look, this is a metaphor for the player, aren't we great writers" kind of thing, but the song doesn't really do anything. So the overt-metaphor lyrics are pointless. Like a distraction meant to fool the player into thinking it means something, when it doesn't. But if we re-structure the story to make the song matter, and make it significant to Azura and Corrin's relationship that she knows the song, I think it'd also be important to change the song's lyrics. Because that's cool. Mysterious songs by mysterious songstresses are cool. More ambiguous lyrics would be pretty neat. The kind that imply that Azura knows more about you and your involvement in things than she should, but then when you listen to them later you understand what she knows. Or even, lyrics not in English? Like the way the special song was handled in fe10. I'll admit I'm not a musician, and not too great at writing lyrics myself. But I think it'd add to Azura's mystery if they were better. The Nohr/Hoshido war is meant to be pretty grey-grey morality, so I think it'd be nicer if all the family-tree-confusion-nonsense was done away with, and the siblings were all related to you exactly as the game tells you in the first place. You'd have familial ties to both contries, as the premise wants. It might also be more efficient to reduce the number of total family members. You could spend more time writing better characters that way. Trim the fat. It might be interesting, as well, if Mikoto were kept alive. So Mikoto vs. Garon was an element of the war, and maybe the "great and terrible secret involving the fate of the world and maybe also Anankos" affected both of them. It'd be much better than Garon being a slime monster. That's all I've got. Sorry it was a lot, hopefully it's relevant and okay to post here. Does anyone have any ideas to expand on the story being structured this way?

Thank you. :) Is it alright if I ask more about that? If I have a large, in-depth topic about Fates' story to discuss, do you think it's still better suited for jumping on another thread, rather than starting a new one? Sorry, I know that's a little vague. I have a lot of thoughts I want to start a discussion about. Is it okay to start a large discussion in the middle of another large discussion? Or is that where it reaches the point of maybe starting a new thread?? Sorry if it's a weird question. It's been awhile since I've been on a forum. I don't want to bother people by putting things in the wrong places.

Interesting topic! Honestly, a lot of Fates characters. But I particularly agree with this: I didn't want to even *touch* Arthur, because he looked like a ridiculous 1-note comedy relief character. His personality is pretty flanderized, for sure. But then I grinded his supports with Azura to get his kid, and I didn't mind him so much. He treated Azura with respect and kindness, and seemed like actually quite reserved a polite a dude, despite the "bumbling hero" persona. Probably won't go out of my way to use him in the future, but I don't mind him anymore. Then there's Takumi. I played Conquest first, and Takumi as a villain is just ridiculous. I got annoyed by him real quick. Then I played with him in Revelations, and his personality got a bit better (for like no reason) and he was too good to not use. So I don't mind him too much anymore either.

??? I'm afraid I still don't understand... is this an inside joke that I'm missing? Thanks for the welcome, though. I want to fit in here and not be the newbie outsider for too long. :)

Um... sorry, what?

This is a fun topic! For me, there's usually a unit or two I can't touch due to their design / personality, as well as their bad stats. I can put effort into bad units for funsies, but just... can't bring myself to ever use these ones. 4: Arden, Johan/Johalva 5: Halvan 6: Wade/Lott 7: Lowen 8: Innes (I know a lot of people like him, but for some reason I can't stand the sight of him) 9: Devdan 10: Fiona 11: Bord/Cord 12: Bord/Cord (seriously, why would I ever use these guys) 13: Panne 14: Hayato I also have strong dislike for Miriel and Azama. Their personalities make me shudder with intense dislike, I never want to use them ever. I'm surprised to see so many people dislike dancers. I guess, yeah, their movement is pretty bad, and they can't take more than one hit. But I am always aching for a dancer when I don't have one. They are too useful for me. Is it just not worth it for others?

Heyy, SF forum! I've used this website's resources for a long time now. I am a huge FE fan, but haven't been active online. I am tired of isolating myself and want to meet other FE people! :) My passion for this series is huge! Time to stop lurking and start participating. My favorite game is Fe9, which was also my first game. I think its writing was some of the best of the series. One of the big reasons I finally made an account for these forums was to talk about the games' stories. I want to discuss story problems, what made the good writing good, what makes the bad writing bad. That sort of thing. Could anyone be so kind as to direct me to places I could do that? To be honest, the real big reason I made an account is to talk about Fates' story. I'm sure a lot of people have probably been talking about it quite a bit. Today I was hit with a fiery need to fix its issues and make it better. And this seems like a great place to talk to other people about that! I'm sure there are already threads going that discuss the problems and fixes for Fates. Would you guys recommend I jump in on those, or should I start a new thread? Under what circumstances do you think it's alright to start a new thread, rather than piggybacking on an old one? Thanks a bunch. Looking forward to making new friends and having good talks. :) (PS Is it tacky to have hyphens around my name? Just normal "ruby" was already taken. OTL)