SullyMcGully

It's D1. We'll be lucky if we find something particularly damning. I just want you to tell me if there's something you think I should know about Dunn that would change my read on him.

OK well then whenever you get to my big quotewall with my Dunn read, I'll need you to tell me exactly what you think I'm wrong about if you're going to convince me not to lynch Dunn.

Unvote Vote: @Ichigo I'm going to work. DL is at 9, right? I'll be back before then.

Claire, my sweet angel! My beloved muse! Oh, dear goddess that granteth the ability to tell night from day and scum from town, will you not bless me with your insight regarding your dear friend, here known as Ichigo, sometimes known as Dunn, who is most assuredly cute if only from having been in your presence, and fill my mind with understanding of how his current behavior stands in the light of his meta? (Please give me your thoughts on Dunn, Claire.)

As for Bartozio vs. Claire, I feel like it's a distraction and Bartozio especially needs to become less focused on his own defense and more focused on reading others. Is Bart still scumreading Claire? I feel like it's time to let that whole thing go, they're still fighting over something that's ancient history now. There are better reads to pursue, and neither of them have substantial wagons, so they could use to be less defense-focused.

On reread, Weiner looks a bit wishy-washy. They haven't really committed to any of their reads. And they've pretty much ignored Dunn with like one exception. I feel like with the logic they've been using this game, they should be more interested in Dunn's slot.

As for Bartozio, I need some input. I'm noticing that he's been extremely rude and condescending this game, especially when he's defending himself. I know Bart as a friend and he isn't usually like this. So could those of you who've played with Bart more than I have tell me if he's normally this way and if it is at all alignment indicative?

Alright, time for another quote wall. After reading the entire game again, I feel a little bit more knowledgeable about some things. I'm going to let Bart off the hook for now, though I do have some serious annoyances with their slot and questions about their meta because apparently I don't even know how one of my own best friends plays NOC. I'll address those things later though. For now I have a beef with Dunn. Oh dang, I forgot what this post was in response to. I think it was Soup? Pretty sure it was Soup. Anyway, if Dunn were to flip scum then I'd look at Soup as a potential buddy. BZZZ BZZZ that is the sound of a chainsaw starting. This post has been torn apart enough so far, but defending Claire and attacking Bartozio is definitely what Dunn came here to do. I really don't like Dunn's style, he posts like he expects a single sentence to carry all of the logic a normal player's paragraphs would. I understand that a lot of players (I suppose I myself am guilty of this) can be too wordy at times, but this is the opposite problem. This was an OK read when it came out and I agreed with it. However, Marth's posting has progressed. Dunn;s read on Marth needs to progress too. He can't just keep scumreading him based off of his first few posts. This is where Dunn starts to sheep my Marth case. All I did was point out some discrepancies I noticed. I didn't say Marth was scum. I find it scummy when a player sheeps a read by radicalizing it beyond the original creator's intentions. It gives them a framework and some logic with which to hunt their prey. They merely provide the bite. He also promises more content in the lat paragraph. I don't feel like we've seen satisfactory content yet, though. What Dunn is saying here is that since Marth isn't perfectly well-informed, he's scummy. Shouldn't scum be better informed than town? Dunn bases his case against Marth here on rather nit-picky grounds. This is the kind of answer I hate from Dunn. Did he really expect Via to just take him at his word? It's a cheap answer which is perhaps too obvious for actual scum, but the way I see it, I'm almost inevitably going to end up voting for somebody who is doing a very bad job at not looking scummy. Explain why Weiner doesn't feel coasty. Don't just contradict everything Via says. If you have reasoning behind your opinions, share them. If you don't, then it's very likely that you're scum. Yes, but could we get some details? And if you had even this much reasoning behind your original response to Via, why didn't you state it then? Why are you giving an almost deliberately small amount of information when Via obviously wants an in-depth explanation? I've disowned this case. I explained why above. Do you still think it has merit? If so, explain why? Anti-town behavior... RAD, did you know when you ask people to ask you questions instead of coming up with questions to ask them, it makes you look like scum? Could somebody who has played with RAD before let me know if he usually does this as town? I suppose RAD you can look at my Dunn case and give feedback.

Oh yeah, just real quick if you're wondering how I feel about Bart: probably just really cocky town early on, for which he is now paying the price. Not entirely OK with him but he doesn't have to be the lynch today. I'll take a look at Dunn later on. I also need to read RAD, Athena, and X(b)nad but I'm unfamiliar with their metas so I have a hard time there. @Mitsuru Kirijo You know Dunn a lot better than any of us, what's your take on him? What is he usually like as scum?

OK I'm getting interrupted by work right now but here's what I've got so far: Notice the use of the word advice here. Bart giving Amy advice? It feels kinda tongue-in-cheek but it gives off a very cocky vibe. That cocky vibe defines Bart's early game. He's extremely confident. He's thinking way too far ahead in the bolded section. Even if the paragraph afterwards is a joke, I find it hard to believe this one is. However, Bart is right. This jump here is so stupid. I'm not sure scum!Bart would be that dumb. But I don't see why town!Bart would do this either, and I think Claire is justified in being defensive in response to this. What Bart is suggesting here is getting an associative read by lynching a player off of an early post which they haven't even defended yet. It definitely sounds like he has an agenda. I actually feel better about this post on reread. The first paragraph feels better to me because I feel like I can see now how Bart seemed to be so confident early on, and I don't have much of an issue with the second one anymore. Which means my case on Marth can probably be laid to rest. Which is what Dunn was leaning on for his case. I already have other issues with Dunn. Maybe when I finish reread I'll vote him. Also I totally agree with Jester that Bart claiming he "grilled" Amy is a complete mischaracterization. They just had a passing conversation. Bart was a little condescending, but I don't feel like there was any friction there at all. Will be back before deadline and finish reread.

OK so I feel like the portion of my post that you quoted is being taken out of context. It was in response to Athena asking me to expand on how I felt like some defenses of Bart weren't townsided. So basically, that's not me saying Bart is scummy. I already said that in other posts. That was me commenting on other player's defenses of Bart. If you want to see me factoring in Bart's meta then look at my other content on him, where I'm actually trying to read him and not just mentioning my case on him in relation to something else. Will get back to you on Claire vs. Bart after reread. I have repeated myself on this already. I'm not scumreading Marth. Marth is being Marth, which, as I remember it, generally means having really weak reads at the start of D1 which improve as time goes on. If they didn't improve, he'd be scummy. And it wasn't his production that bothered me, he lives on the other side of the world and I don't expect him to post frequently or anything. It was his actual content. It seemed illogical. I'm going to reread most of the game and update my opinions.

I'm caught up on reading. I'm really exhausted tonight but just a few thoughts: @Athena_57 when I said some defenses of Bart weren't very townsided I was referring mainly to Marth's which I felt like was sugarcoating Bart's scumminess. This logic of mine is getting a little dated at this point and I'll update it later, but here's what I mean: Bart is definitely acting scummy. Anybody who says Bart is town should be saying "I know he looks like scum, but he isn't really." They should not be giving him a pass or acting like this is a normal way for town to act. And IIRC that's what Marth did in his first post regarding Bart. It wasn't until later that Marth started to treat Bart like he actually needed defending. @Bartozio I'm not saying you're an idiot, sorry if I sounded offensive, but I'm saying that it's not outside of the realm of possibility that you slipped up early on. And then backtracked afterwards when you realized it was a mistake. And the more you post, the more I can see this as being you as frantic town not wanting to be mislynched, but this is all dependent on your meta of being a frequent D1 mislynch. In a vacuum you look scummy. If another player were doing what you're doing they'd look scummy. And I don't feel entirely comfortable with it. I think it was Marth who said they expected you to be lazier as scum, but IMO how lazy/motivated scum is isn't necessarily as tied to an individual player's meta as it is tied to how they fit in/what is required of them by the rest of the scumteam. My posts are starting to be less grounded in reality and more grounded in reality as I remember it. I'm too tired to be doing this right now. Sometime soon I'm going to do some rereading and get my reads straight. It's gonna be a while before I post again though. I'll probably be back in before DL but in case I'm not, I'm leaving my vote on Bart because he's the player I feel like is most likely to be scum. And if he isn't, at least it gives us a lot of info to work with regarding Claire, Dunn, Marth and some others. I was actually considering making a case on Marth while I was gone today, but some things in his later posts have given me a better feeling about him. Like I said early on that I expected better from him and it feels like he's improved his reads a bit. There's probably more there if I read into it. Also interesting fact: the entire game's focus is supposedly on Bart right now but I'm the only one voting him. Yet most of his recent content has been devoted to defending himself. Somebody who isn't sleep-deprived should take a look at that, it could be a townie going above and beyond to clear themselves or reactive scum. Dunn has been really subpar TBH, but they've only posted minimally and the wagon on them popped up pretty suddenly. Not super comfortable lynching there. I like Jester's content. If I may address some of the cases on Refa before Jester showed up, somebody called him "unmotivated" and I feel like that's wrong. What we saw in this game wasn't lazy Refa. Lazy Refa is very distinctive and annoying. Refa this game seemed pretty much in-line with their town meta and I know they've been busy with making an EiMM which could explain why their posting was infrequent. I seriously wouldn't have signed up for this while designing an EiMM so I can see why he subbed out. @Fenrir Aesir I can talk about subouts right? The rules don't say anything about it, but I know that's a rule in some games. @Jester's Gestures Via plays Mafia high. That's pretty much the only way they play, that's why they're pretty easy to read. Refer to their signature if you want. Goodnight.

@Jester's Gestures do you know me? Should I know you? What site are you from? Is there another username you go under?

You've got your evidence wrong. Bart's vote on Any wasn't reasonable at all, it was pure RVS. Look at the timestamps if you have to. There wasn't any reasoning behind it, he was just joking. Have you played with Via before? Because he started pushing a case without reading the entire thread. It's weak, but I feel like scum would have been better informed. That's all that really stood out to me on my first readthrough. I thought I said this: I don't have a "scumread" on Marth. At least not yet. Marth is super annoying to read in these games even as town. Their latest posts aren't quite showing the logic and conviction I was hoping for. Bart made a big post mostly addressed to me. I won't have time to address that for a while. I guess as my final thoughts for the next 12+ hours: I think this kind of reactive behavior could easily be townie Bart, seeing his N1 mislynch looming again. But if he's scared of getting mislynched, then why is he so confident at first? And Bart's main argument right now is "do you really think I'm that stupid?" I mean, what if I do? What if you are that stupid? I don't feel like the wagon on Bart is entirely scum-motivated, and I don't feel like the people who are scumreading Bart are tunneling him. People are keeping other reads open. A good many of you need to stop trying to make this out to be the entire game hating on a single poor player and accept that Bart's behavior has raised valid concerns that need addressing. It makes sense to be paranoid about mislynching Bart given his record but stop making it out to be some kind of scum agenda being the only reason he's under pressure. Overall, I feel better about Bart but some things are still nagging me + some player's defenses of Bart have been very weak and lack town motivation. I'll take a look at some other people whenever I get done with my other obligations today. I just wanted to reply to the stuff directed at me for now.

OK I'm finally in for the night. I did some reading! I actually feel like I might be not-useless this game. Ironically, Amy right here is doing the very thing Claire said she wouldn't do: "faking" a scumread. Basically, when Claire made her "fake scumread" post, that was the first post in the game that was even slightly serious. Amy took the golden opportunity to make bank off of that post, which is honestly something I had considered doing (that post came out right before I went to bed.) I don't think it was scummy for her to do so, and it started some good conversation. But I also don't feel like there's supposed to be any conviction behind Amy's posts. She's just starting the conversation, so when Bart comes in later with a serious scumread on Claire acting like he's just sheeping Amy, it feels off to me. Here's what I mean: The bolded is supposed to be a joke? That's what one of his later posts would suggest, but I feel like Bart is moving too fast to make Claire into a lynch target based off of marginal reads. Like I said, we're talking about the first game-related post in the game. It'll always get picked on. Bart is taking this too far. Especially considering that Claire hadn't replied to anything on her yet. This post feels off. The bolded part lumps together two players who I feel have been different this game and acts like they're both doing the same thing. And Bart's posts at this point had been very bare-bones, only providing original content when provided. Bart's play up to this point should look scummy in a lot of ways, and people who think Bart is town should be addressing how despite how it looks, it isn't really scummy, instead of pretending there's nothing suspicious there. Also I'm OK with Soup, IMO they're just doing the same thing as Amy and starting the conversation. Like yeah it's a weak conversation, but it's better than no conversation. What's important here is saying "just because Soup participated in the early conversation (generally town behavior) doesn't mean he's town." Keeping an open mind is good. However, saying "Soup participated in this conversation, therefore he is scummy," is jumping the gun a bit. Can't say for certain that I scumread Marth based off of this as I feel like they've been similar as town in the past, but I expect better reads from them. This feels natural and helps put to rest some concerns of my own about Claire's reactive behavior in her first reply. Yeah me too please be town buddy! OK, well you vote people because they're scummy. Not because their behavior doesn't necessarily come from town. Marth feels really weak in these posts, I'll forgive him for now because there's not much content but he needs to get better or else. This feels like a rollback. This is why I assume that bit about "clapping Claire" in that earlier post is a joke. His earlier posts have a lot of confidence, which is even why Marth townread him, but now he's saying "oh I wasn't confident really." And this is after he starts to get flak for his scummy behavior. And what Bart did to Amy's read on Claire isn't sheeping, it takes a simple read and treats it as if it could be a ride-or-die case. This just doesn't feel right. Yeah this. Dunn's posts are a little barebones though and all he's done so far is chainsaw Claire (I think that's the right terminology? What I mean is, he's defending Claire and attacking her attackers.) Looking forward to seeing him interact more. As for how I feel about Claire, I agree with Soup. Claire is really good at mafia, tonereading her is pointless, if we are to lynch her it will be on a later day with associatives to help us. All of the attention Claire has garnered so far is just what you get for making the first serious post in an NOC mafia game. I'm scumreading Bart. He could fix this by posting some good responses to the points being laid against him, but right now everything he's done feels rather opportunistic. It's almost obviously so, which makes it seem too bold of a move for scum to make. But honestly my faith in Bart's scum ability isn't strong enough for me to think he's beyond drawing too much attention to himself as scum. We'll see how things develop. I'm putting my vote there. ##Vote: @Bartozio As for reads on other players, I feel like I need to go back and reread Shinori, RAD, and Athena. Especially Athena, there was something about his posts that felt off to me and I need to double-check and see if said suspicion actually exists. Refa could be town, could be scum, but at least he isn't being lazy! Amy and Soup both feel town based off of early interactions, but aren't confirmed yet. Something about Xnad's posts rubbed me as townie, looking forward to seeing more from him. Via is probably town based off of meta. I need to see more from Dunn. You guys know how I feel about Marth, Bart, and Claire, so I think that's everyone! It's very late here, but I'll stay up for 30 more minutes in case any of you have anything to say regarding my wallpost. I'm going to be gone most of tomorrow unfortunately, so if you have anything else for me, let me know soon.

Hey I'm gonna be at a wedding all day. Talk to you all later.

Go ahead Claire. In fact, skip the whole game. I'll carry you.

There. Does this make it all better?

That's no way to talk about a lady, boy. ##Vote: @Magnificence Incarnate

Even cuter <3

I meant politically. I'm a patriot who loves America, but I disagree with... just about everybody with any sort of leadership position in the country.

Try not to sneeze...

...to put trash in their yard. The proper way to throw your video game controller at a TV screen is...