MaskedAmpharos

I'm actually hoping the next Tempest has a new, awesome seal at 50k and then maybe Quick Pulse at a lower value (like 40k maybe?) It's also possible they just don't have QP at Tempest at all anymore and allow you to gain it through some new quest in the future. I'm hoping they at least make "free 5* at 30k" and "awesome seal at 50k" a recurring thing though. Another suggestion I was thinking of was to have quests related to the Tempest to spice things up a bit and make it less monotonous. Maybe something like "beat a Tempest run (not necessarily Lunatic) with Alfonse" or "do Tempest runs with a cavalry team" or something and have the Quick Pulse seal be a reward for one of the more challenging quests in the next Tempest.

Are you sure it's a 10-point range? I could be misremembering, of course, but I'm fairly certain my team's been matched with as low as 688 and as high as 702, so it's at least a 14-point range.

Ver 1.5 is a really significant milestone, so I'm expecting some fairly sizable changes. Maybe this means we'll finally get another set of story chapters? The timing is ripe for it. We now have every single character that was in the story missions as a playable character (barring Bruno and Veronica), so it makes sense to add more now. Especially since we got Legion and will be getting Clarisse, which seems to suggest a third return to the World of Mystery, which sets them up to do another cycle (though I hope a Sacred Stones world is interjected somewhere in between). People have also speculated the additional of Infernal difficulty to existing story chapters, which would be another welcome change (because moar orbs). Either way, I'm pretty excited for this new update!

Katarina and Tharja have the same base attack and speed, so the one with the least detrimental offensive nature is going to be better (in this case Tharja).

Alright so I think part of the problem with Ice Dragon and Smokestack's disagreements is a difference in what you want the tier list to do. @Ice Dragon seems to see the tier list from the perspective of someone who has (or can get) a bunch of units and wants to know which ones are the best to work on. He views the list as a resource for more experienced players who have more resources at their disposal. @MrSmokestack, on the other hand, seem to view the list from a more beginner-friendly perspective. He doesn't know if people will be able to get certain units or natures and so he just wants to give newer players a rough idea of where certain units stand in comparison to each other on average. Both have their merits, but they're two different types of tier lists. And from what phineas said when the thread was made, this tier list is meant to be more of a guide for newer players who don't have a lot of units or resources at their disposal, so I'm going to side with Smoke on this one.

Don't you dare defile my daughter's image like this My dad is rather...anti-gaming in general. He wouldn't be pleased to know I'm even playing this game at all, much less pulling himself. Also (so that this isnt off topic), I decided to do a few pulls the other day focusing reds because why not. Either I get Katarina (who I want), Swift Sparrow fodder (if I get a bad natured Kat), Wo Dao+ fodder, or Brave Sword+ fodder, all of which are things I need. Took me 71 orbs, but I finally got a Lukas! Wasn't expecting it to take so many orbs when I was pulling only red on a banner with 3 red focus units, but... I finally got the fodder :D

I'm gonna have to try it on the healer banner to get my daughters Elise and Genny. I hope they come home soon ;___; Even a -Atk Reinhardt is better than most other ranged units in this game. Yeah, any Reinhardt is good.

Here, this is a site you can use to check damage calculations and test different builds yourself.

Oh hey that's a really simple way to implement what I had in mind. I like it!

Just go for it. Putting DB3 on Reinhardt is worth any natured Klein honestly.

Yes. Especially if you're running her on a horse team (which I assume you are since she has Gronnblade). I recommend also giving her Desperation if you haven't already.

I don't see where people are getting this idea. Eirika was dropped to 4* but not Ephraim. Reinhardt was dropped to 4* but not Olwen. There is no reason to assume that just because two units are part of a set that one will get dropped simply because the other is.

Screenshotted for future use

I agree that armorslaying weapons are lackluster in Heroes, but the specific cases you mention are less because armorslayers suck and more because Caeda is a pretty terrible offensive unit without SI or team support. She's dumped all of her attack and defense for speed and resistance, which makes her really not suited at all for fighting armored units.

Double post.

There's a very wide middle ground between "barely scraping by with 3 crests" and "hoarding over 90 crests" that I think is ideal.

I've been seeing some disagreement on how to handle the issue of natures and merges, so I just want to bring this up so that we can come to a consensus. Are we going to take natures and merges (so that free, neutral-only units like Sharena and Xander are placed lower in the list) into account? Or are we going to look at each unit in a neutral natured and un-merged (ignoring the possibility of future merges) state to compare all units on a level playing field?

I see where you're coming from, but I just worry that Nintendo giving into these complaints will lead to a slippery slope of people feeling entitled when it's not easy enough to get the rewards they want and complaining to Nintendo to change that for them. I think part of the problem with this event (and part of why there's so much complaining) isn't so much the amount of grinding but rather the lack of variety. The grinding by itself is somewhat tedious but not unbearably so (at least in my eyes), but when the grinding occurs on the same handful of maps over and over, I can definitely understand players feeling worn out more quickly. In that case, my suggestion would be to not reduce the points to 50k but rather make the grind to 50k less monotonous by adding more variety. An additional suggestion would be to increase the number of points earned per round but also increase stamina cost to compensate. This way you're still spending the same amount of stamina to get the rewards you want, but you wouldn't need to repeat as many runs. In fact, Nintendo could even do both! In one of the gacha games I used to play, players would have to grind event maps for points, much like in Heroes. However, there was an option to spend 4x the amount of energy/stamina to play the map and get 4x the amount of points. The tradeoff, of course, is that if you messed up during the run, then it would be as if you messed up four Tempest runs instead of just one. Since that game was much more competitive in terms of score cutoffs for rewards, messing up a 4x run would be quite punishing. Additionally, it was less efficient since, while you got the same amount of event points from a 4x run from doing a single run 4 times, you only get the same amount of gold (also earned during maps) as one completion of a map. So in Heroes terms, doing a 4x run would be less HM and SP efficient. I think that if Nintendo added that option, letting players choose to spend extra stamina on a run to also make it worth extra points (while keeping the original option intact for people who wish to use the event to grind SP/HM), then that would solve a lot of the complaints about how grindy the event feels. tldr - I don't think the score cutoff for rewards should be lowered, but instead I think Nintendo could alleviate the tedium by adding map variety but more importantly alleviate the amount of grinding by adding the option to spend more stamina for more points (ex: 60 stamina for a Lunatic run with a max reward of 2115 points) Since it would be an optional setting, the players who simply want to grind less can use the option but get less HM out of it while the players who want to grind HM efficiently can simply choose to not use the multiplier. Everyone wins. EDIT: May as well tag @DehNutCase and @Ice Dragon in this and see how they feel about the suggestion, since I've been seeing them and Ice discussing a similar issue. I guess @Rezzy too since she just weighed in on the issue.

You'd be fishing every other week since I doubt you can stay in 20 even with fishing (unless your team is significantly more merged than mine). And in any case, they don't do you much good just rotting away there collecting dust, right? The whole reason you're given crests is to spend them. And if you're in danger of crossing 99, you clearly aren't spending them (or you barely are).

Perhaps it's just a difference in perspective/expectation. I didn't think the grind was that bad because I was comparing it to the grinds involved in other gacha games' events, which are far worse. However, within the context of just Heroes in a vacuum, this is definitely by far the most grind-heavy event, so I can understand people being thrown off. If we're assuming perfect runs though, you only need to be about 30% efficient with your stamina to get the seal, which means you could spend most of your stamina on non-Tempest stuff or just simply spend a bunch of time doing non-Heroes stuff and letting your stamina overflow and still get the seal. I think people tend to exaggerate how single-mindedly focused you need to be on grinding to get the seal. I also think a lot of the blame falls on the people who choose to spend a lot of time and effort grinding when they aren't enjoying themselves. Gacha events in general are not designed for most players to get the best rewards. The rewards are generally tiered in a way that the top players (even if that simply means the top spenders and not the best players because they want to encourage spending) get the top rewards, people in the middle get the middle rewards, and the people at the lower end get lower rewards. In my eyes, the Quick Pulse seal is the top reward, with the 5* Marth being the middle reward, and the 4* Marth being the lower reward. If you look at it that way, it's designed so that, for people with good teams who can consistently get max score, getting the seal isn't too daunting (but it would be for people who cannot consistently score well). However, getting the 5* Marth reward is at a good amount of grinding for people in the middle, and the 4* Marth reward is at a reasonable point milestone for people below that. Most games would enforce this more severely by letting only a specific number of top scoring people attain the highest rewards, but Nintendo is nice in that it leaves it open so that you can get higher tier rewards if you grind enough even if the event wasn't designed for you get it easily. However, with that in mind, if you desire reward tiers that are higher up than your performance tier, then of course you will have to grind really, really hard, maybe uncomfortably so because the event was never designed for you to be able to comfortably get them in the first place. And if you choose to aim for the higher rewards even so, then any fatigue and tedium you feel can only be blamed on you and not the game or its developers. Put in a simpler way, imagine you're in an RPG game and have the choice between three different quest lines. Quest 1 is for level 1-10 players and gives a bronze chest reward. Quest 2 is for level 11-20 players and gives a silver chest reward. Quest 3 is for level 21-30 players and gives a gold chest reward. The quests are designed so that if you are in that level range, the quest won't be too difficult for you. However, in the case of Heroes, the quests are not level-locked (the level ranges are merely a recommendation), so a level 12 player can do Quest 3 and try to get the gold chest reward. But it's too hard for them because Quest 3 wasn't designed for a level 12 player to complete. Makes sense, right? Except the level 12 player is complaining that Quest 3 is too difficult and should be made easier. That's how I see this situation. (And if you're a player that's level 25 and can complete Quest 3 without too much trouble but thinks it takes too much work, then I'm going to have to disagree with you there because I think that getting to the QP seal isn't very grindy at all if you can consistently get max score or close to it. And if you can't consistently get max score then you aren't the type of player Quest 3 is designed for.) With all that said, I hope I didn't come off as too negative. You do seem like you overall like the idea of the event and seem like a pretty reasonable person in general who isn't exactly raging at the developers or anything (so apologies if I made it sound like you were). I guess I've just been rather annoyed by all the people complaining about the grind when they aren't forced to grind so much in the first place. The fact that it's literally even possible for them to get the best rewards with grinding (albeit a lot of it) is already amazing, and I don't think the bar needs to be set any lower.

I mean it sounds like you have plenty of crests to spare, so I don't see the problem ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Now I can't help but think about sacrificing Donnel to give your Lucina Aptitude. Players will have to choose between having a full roster by endgame or just a few really decked-out units :P

If it helps at all, the team I've been consistently getting deathless Lunatic runs with is Tharja, Ephraim, Nino, and Azura, which you have 3/4 units for. To be fair though, there was certainly some SI involved, most notably with giving Desperation to Tharja and Nino and Ephraim having Hone Spd (so that he buffs +4 spd, +2 res with the seal, and +12 total attack (since bonuses are converted to attack) for the blade mages just by standing next to them) The mere fact that the top prize is even possible for the majority of players to reach without spending premium currency speaks volumes about Nintendo's generosity. 50k is already more than low enough, and the bar really does not need to be set even lower to pander to people unwilling to put forth effort.

I believe some previous titles, like Path of Radiance, let you have the option between random growth rates and fixed rates. I don't think random rates should be replaced entirely, but I agree that I think choosing between the two should be an option they have in future titles. I actually like the weapon triangle's implementation in Heroes and wish the triangle played more of a role in the main games. Also the idea of active skills is a cool idea. Echoes somewhat implements that through its Arts system, but something based on the number of actions a unit has taken like what we have in Heroes could add another layer of strategy. It would also be cool to see more movement-oriented assist skills like Reposition and Draw Back in the main games. I know they already have Swap and Shove in some capacity in some games, but I'd like to see more of that kind of thing.

I can too, but I often need to blow crests to fish for higher point teams in order to squeeze into Tier 20 with my team. Just doing a plain 'ol deathless run relies too much on RNG, and I often am not able to get the point values I need without blowing some crests.