Pegasus Knight
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Posts posted by Pegasus Knight
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10 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:
This is the most grammatically bizarre response I've ever gotten from somebody that didn't get the joke.
people were too dense about this issue so i wasnt sure if were joking or not... glad u weren't serious
As for that's sentence grammar i guess u dont speak the lingo ... its ok
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3 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:
I tried the "she looked the same age as me" defense in court once. Didn't go very well.
well its a game not real life... you give me "kids play violent video games so they will turn into criminals" teas
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If there's anything i would complain about the relationships is that i cant at how unrealistic it is for Nobles to marry peasants... Maybe one or two can or a country like hoshido which seems more democratic but in which universe would king garon accept Xander to marry a servant like Felicia for example....
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people read way too much on this teacher/student thing..... your avatar and the students look exactly the same age.... and its not like if u pair them together that reflects how u behave in real life....
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1 hour ago, Lewyn said:
Subtlety implies there is something there, being open for interpretation/vague is something else entirely.
Just have to say it is just some people never got that from Ike and don't interpret him that way. It doesn't mean they are anti gay, or they are denying he is gay because they feel that would make him inferior...they just never saw him that way nor should they feel forced to.
cool no one is forcing you... as for the other thing let me not get into it cause i really dont want to go there...
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8 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:
That's literally what I implied with the reference to Marth being the great-nephew of Anri. It was meant as a joke.
i just wanted to make it explicit! No more vagueness
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what about a Heroes original character? I like Eir
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2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:
I'd prefer him to not be that, honestly. I'd like to see him with a wife and children if anything involving romance and family. Supporting him would be fine, but I don't want to see anymore everyone x everyone and characters that can only support the avatar.
maybe he could return with his husbando soren
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5 minutes ago, Book Bro said:
Anna, and that better be it. Let Three Houses stand on its own, please IS. The Awakening expies and cameos added nothing to Fates besides making its world even more confusing.
i am not familiar with any pre 3ds games, so no one else makes sense? echoes has many recurring characters but i guess gaiden was a somewhat a direct sequel of a previous game, right?
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4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:
The only character that would make sense to me, honestly, is Ike. Anyone else would feel like a shoehorning/forced inclusion.
And I am biased for Ike, but I have a good reason for this opinion. As shitty as I still think his ending is, he still traveled to other lands and he's the only notable and popular character known to have done so. I wouldn't mind seeing him again though, of course, so long as his implementation is done right.
I would love to have Ike especially if he is going to be our gay choice
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Many FE games have at least 1 previous character returning. So who do you think might be this time or who do you want to be?
I would prefer to have at least 1 from pre-awakening games. Since Heroes has introduced previous characters i think that's possible..
In the end i hope its anything than what they did with Fates with awakening characters...
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17 minutes ago, PrincessAlyson said:
Here's a question for everyone: Who, out of the revealed playable cast, would you S-Support with, if any?
Right now, I would go with Sylvain, Ashe or Dimitri.
Maybe Dimitri but tbh the cast has been pretty disappointing to me so far....
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18 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:
You said, "That's not how death of the author works […] when it comes to things that creators couldn't be explicit since they might weren't allowed or they could experience huge backlash..." and my very first example was one where the story literally got censored.
I don't know anything about that example you're giving. But, if that's the case that the dub did that, then anyone who watches the dub will say that they are cousins, and they would have every right to say that because it was the version that was presented to them. It does count.
If it were always the original that counts, then how come the version of The Hobbit that everyone reads and considers canon is the rewrite, and not the original? Changes made in localizations and rewrites have to be considered. It doesn't inherently make the original invalid; it makes them different versions of the story.
If IS made a character that was then made gay in the NA localization, I'd consider that character gay; as would pretty much everyone that buys the North American localization, because that's the version that they bought and played. That's the nature of localizations.
Except for, well, Priam. But then again; Marth is considered Anri's descendant despite being his great-great-grand nephew.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure most of that is due to the immense "shipping war", and believe me, I've seen plenty of Ike and Soren shippers do that kind of stuff as well to people that have argued in favour of the Ike and Elincia interpretation and the Ike being ace interpretation. Don't get me wrong; it is horrible to see stuff like that happen instead of reasonable debate and discussion.
No problem. Thanks.
i am not familiar with the first example that's why i didn't dive into it... As for the death of Author i disagree because people and especially YTbers have run with it the same way they did with the term plot hole... the Death of the Author is not as broad of a term as it might seems... and of course as everything is depends on the particular work we are discussing....
They might had this idea based on what they saw BUT that's why research exists.... especially in today's word with the internet there is no excuse.... I am sorry but this one is something i wont even agree to disagree with you.. i am firmly supporter of the original's creators story... sure revisions can exist and can be welcomed but if we dive into discussions like this its always the original that provides the biggest evidence.... i wont allow America's homophobia to take away some great gay representation... sorry no...
Priam could be Misty's son tho...
No, i actually saw these comments in threads and YT videos discussing Ike's sexuality... i wasnt aware of this debate before yesterday as i haven't played the games....
Anyway to end this, i do agree with you that its ambiguous if he is or he isnt... and since we hardy get any explicit representation for us gays things were always like that (reading among the lines) and that's why i do think he is... anyone can interpret it tho however he wants, i just find it funny how strong the straights deny this fact as if a gay lord existing would harm their franchise... Again not referring to you it was great discussing with you...
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20 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:
Actually, it still applies, as one shouldn't judge a story or its characters based on what could have been. I'll give you three examples that illustrate my point:
- Shakespeare's Henry VIII was censored by the Lord Chamberlain because Henry VIII was Elizabeth I's dad. While it may be good to bear in mind that the play was censored, it ultimately has little bearing on interpreting the play, as the censored version was the version that the audience got. Even if we had a copy of the original version, interpreting the version that was actually played in 16th Century England based on the original would be judging based on what could've been; which is actually what you're not supposed to do when interpreting a written work.
- Aldous Huxley, when discussing his book: Brave New World, quite famously said that he wished he could go back and completely rewrite the last the last chapter. (I don't really understand why he couldn't; J.R.R. Tolkien, after finishing The Lord of the Rings, went back and completely rewrote the Riddles in the Dark chapter of The Hobbit) Since he never actually did rewrite the last chapter, his desire to rewrite it has no bearing on interpretation of the book. I myself would never bring it up when discussing how I interpret the story or any of the characters; I usually only bring it up when discussing how badly written the book is (very badly written).
- Final Fantasy XV was originally going to be Final Fantasy Versus XIII, but it was rebranded and its story was heavily altered. The story of Versus XIII has no bearing on interpreting the story of XV or any of the characters in it. To do so would be judging based on what could've been. I myself would have much preferred to have Versus XIII than XV, as XV was a complete mess, but Versus XIII has no bearing on how I interpret XV.
You would be correct about that, and I was actually going to bring that up in my original post, but I felt that my post was getting long, it was unnecessary to bring it up, and I already sort-of mentioned it when I said that I would disagree with someone who tried to justify their interpretation with things that weren't in the story or were taken out of context by the person with the interpretation, so I deleted that part of my post before submitting it.
For an example, a few months back I had an interesting debate with someone who's interpretation of Rudolph from Echoes stemmed from things he had cherrypicked and taken out of context, so I disagreed with him by pointing out that he had cherrypicked and taken points out of context.
Thanks for making a strawman out me and completely misrepresenting my argument (obvious sarcasm).
Also, I'm starting to get tired of correcting your spelling; are you typing this on your phone?My argument was never, "Ike is not gay". My argument in my post earlier was that, due to the nature of how Ike is written and due to differences between localizations, those three different interpretations I mentioned are almost equally valid. Because of that, Ike really isn't an example of the point that Kori made:
She followed this with "see: any discussion about Ike". She has a good point about the subtlety bringing about ambiguity and going over people's heads, and I agreed with her about her point, but I disagreed with her about Ike being an example, due to the differences between locations presenting different pieces of evidence, etc.
Plus, I think it's funny (and disingenuous) that your evidence you presented was a supposed (I say supposed because you left no proof that it is) quote from the Japanese version, when I explicitly said:
I was explicitly talking about the NA localization of Path of Path of Radiance. If you want to refute the argument that I made there, present evidence from the NA localization or try (and fail) to argue that the NA localization somehow doesn't count.
All these 3 examples are "what could have been" if they were written differently BUT in this case we arent discussing something like this.. we are talking about an intentional or not ambiguity.... in which in an interview of some sort the creators make a comment about the relationship pretty much conforming that it was a romantic one.... And tbh when it comes to Ike the evidence of him being gay is pretty strong and the only evidence towards his straightness is Heteronormativity... and watching all the heteros going crazy any time this issue comes up its no wonder the creators didn't make it explicit... (i am not referring to you)
sorry for my typing mistakes
I actually find Ike's example perfect for the discussion, cause it truly highlights the problem. When gay characters aren't explicit and only vaguely suggested we have issues like these where the str8's call us delusional and don't want to accept the ambiguity or even the possibility... ( again not talking about you but if u visit a forum or YT video discussing Ike's sexuality u will see the negative responses)
Of course NA doesn't count.... That's like saying that sailor uranus and Neptune wasnt gay because the American Dub censored their relationship and made them cousins.... its always the original that counts... even if IS doesnt make a gay character in 3H and the NA branch change it i wont accept that character as truly gay and pretty much no one will...
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13 hours ago, vanguard333 said:
The thing about Ike is that, given what's there, you could say there's no indication towards any particular orientation, or multiple or even contradictory indicators; a lot of it comes down to interpretation given what's there. Part of that is thanks to localization differences, while other parts of it are simply due to how Ike is written as a character.
Because the version of Path of Radiance I (and many) played was the NA localization, which heavily implied Ike and Elincia having romantic feelings for each other while clearly defining Ike and Soren's relationship as that of two close friends; similarly to Sherlock Holmes and Watson (the book versions) and many other examples, I and many were left with that interpretation about Ike, and that interpretation is not inherently less valid than anyone else's. Even if IS were to say, "The intent was always Ike and Soren", that would be one interpretation no more or less valid than anyone else's thanks to The Death of the Author.
To clarify, if someone interpreted it as Ike and Soren, I would not inherently disagree with anyone, nor would I disagree with anyone who thought Ike was Ace after playing PoR and RD based on what was written. I would only disagree if someone presented evidence that wasn't actually in the game, or was presented out-of-context.
And there's the problem with just leaving it as implied: unless you make sure that the implications can only point in one particular direction, and you make sure not to have anything that can unintentionally imply anything else, there will be ambiguity.
Thats not how Death of the Author really works tbh especially when it comes to things that creators couldn't be explicit since they might weren't allowed or they could experience huge backlash..
In the end u can interpret any work of art however u like but this doesnt change the fact that some interpretations are more valid or at least have better arguments to back them up than others ....
Anyway from what i have seen form the japanese texts Ike is gay like come one "his heart and shoren become one"... plzzzz but if u want to not see it u are free to do so....
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36 minutes ago, Lewyn said:
Movies and Television in America is overall very progressive, it isn't just about money. We have much female empowerment and huge queer representation, in fact entire movies based on transgender or gay issues. Even at the risk of such films bombing badly (and some indeed do), they put it out for the sake of art, pushing things forward, etc. We aren't talking about a new game or new company here. We are talking about IS, we are talking about a series that debuted on the NES. How progressive have they been thusfar? Why do people expect there is suddenly with this game going to be tons more representation? I think maybe there might be a little more than Fates but IS does indeed care a lot about sales which is why we have Camilla's amazing pandering skills and all the anime tropes we got in Fates. They are more about sales than ever before.
Also can't compare anime to Disney which is mostly aimed at children. Anime is for all audiences, a better comparison is anime and Japanese film compared to American cinema. Which has been more progressive? What culture is overall more accepting of diversity in sexuality, gender, and ethnicity?
well no one expecting IS to give us a perfect representation we just hope for the best so more than Fates means 2 gay characters? i would be extremely happy with that... heck even if have 1 that isnt controversial like nyles and rhajat...
flash news but America isnt the only place in the world just the loudest.... LGBTQ movies for the sake of art and representation are happening to many otehr countries... included Japan... and this is irrelevant we arent talking indie companies and efforts here we discussing Big companies who's only goal is money.... when companies adopt campaigns to raise awareness for the environment or for any social issue rest assure they don't it out of kindness but because these actions translates to money in one way or another....
You can compare anime with Disney because i didn't compare all anime BUT shonen and shoujo who are targeted to children... and sailor moon an anime aimed at young children back in the 90's was full of gay characters while disney is afraid because of homophobic parents... oh well give it a lil more time and they soon will bend.... the world becomes a lil more progressive time by time and that translates to money and thats what Disney loves more....
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On 2/20/2019 at 12:33 AM, Kori said:
I'm not sure I would call Leon subtle, or "never outright confirmed". He may never say "I'm gay", if that's what you mean, but once you start having him go "you're not my type" at Kamui and go on about how and why Valbar is, or talking at you about how he fell in love with a guy, I'd say we're past simply implying it.
The problem with subtle is that people who forget LGBT characters are a possibility will not realize it, and people who don't want their faves to be LGBT will refuse to see it, clinging to the subtlety and lack of outright confirmation, which basically negates the "representation" part of having these characters. Yes, we'll be happy about their inclusion while playing the game on our own, but we'll be called delusional for it in almost every fandom space. See: any discussion about Ike. (And probably others; I haven't really looked around, say, the fe7 board yet, so I don't know if the likes of Lyn/Florina or Raven/Lucius are similarly just-platonic-friends-zoned. There are probably people who think Maribelle is straight, too, and she was anything but subtle.)
They've written characters this way, and it was nice, but now that video games as a whole are starting to catch up with reality on that level, we shouldn't have to settle for "implied".
Ike is gay? no wonder he is my fave...
On 2/20/2019 at 2:36 AM, Critical Sniper said:Medieval setting and those that go to school are probably not allowed in if they are gay.
With that in mind, I really don't care if they appear I just hope that their personality isn't "I'm gay, notice me you homophobe REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" because then it will get annoying and feel more like they are trying to be political and stuff. But I didn't really mind them being there in Fates and Echoes (Well I dont think Valbar and Leon have a pair ending?), the only problem and the only problem is........................................................ when it becomes too obvious, tell me, aside from SJWs and protesters, do you think gay people are always trying to make others notice that they are gay? No, I could have a gay friend for years without even knowing they are gay and it would be no problem and even stay like that once he told me or I found out.
But with the general thing of supports. I want more quality not quantity, I know some Senpai X Student UwU BS will get there because JAPAN but with that I mean something like FE6 or 9 supports, especially with FE6 ones, with how they are short but you finish reading something like Hugh and Niime's and it's so good despite them being readable in under 3 minutes. Then again I'm a sucker for FE6 [Does the kaga laugh that he does in every interview].Medieval setting has nothing to do with gay pairings.... If the medieval setting was so oppressive over the franchise then we wouldn't have any female warriors/leaders and any otehr occupation than wives. prostitutes or mothers cause women were oppressed during that period of time ....
Also what do u mean Gay people are trying to make others notice they are gay.... Str8 people do it all the time.... The kiss each otehr outside, they have a relationship status and photos on social media etc Gay people arent allowed that and if they ever try anything like that then we get the "gay people try to make a scene and people notice their sexuality".... Also you cant have a friend and don't know whether he is gay or str8.. dont friends talk about sex and relationships?
On 2/20/2019 at 4:01 AM, Lewyn said:I think this is the problem with bringing up such discussion about LGBTQ+, it has gotten to the point that there really can't be much discussion/debate. It is like walking on eggshells, any questioning brings an immediate strong accusation of being a homophobe. This is the sake with many of these issues in the US. Everyone deserves fair treatment, equal rights, etc. However certain things need discussion and I won't go into it here, but they possibly step on other groups rights or have other problems. Complex problems (I am not speaking of sexuality but issues otherwise) often don't have simple solutions. Okay hard to know what I mean without giving an example, note this is not for this thread and don't want to derail it. However there is debate that people should be able to compete in sports/athletic competitions as the gender they identify with. The problem is the main reason sports are split between biological sex, is cause of the huge advantage males have over females in many of them. The issues this presents are obvious.
Relating to Fire Emblem well and most games particularly ones with a big budget, they are most going try to cater to the majority of their fanbase. Now one can say that fanbase has to deal with all bi, or much more gay and trans representation. However this is a game, entertainment, if something is going to hurt sales like IS is going to be very wary of it. We see the treatment in Heroes, even though that is a gacha game and Three Houses likely won't pander so hard. When we see loli, siscon, this kind of stuff it is commonly seen in anime. Fire Emblem is appealing to the Japanese market primarily, and so stuff that is popular in media there is something they are going to try use as an example for how they design their own characters/supports/etc. This is likely why ethnic diversity is almost nonexistent (like anime) and why there is some but very little LGBTQ representation and the ones there often fit an anime trope.
Shouldn't this be a character discussion more than supports? Supports I hope tell a lot about each character, depth to their history, insight into their personality and way of thinking stuff that may not be readily apparent, interests, motivations, etc.
well unlike the issue u brought this is a very insignificant issue so yeah most questionings in diversity in movies and games should be viewed as homophobic or racist because that's what they are... I dotn see why anyone would have a problem if we have more than 1 gay characters or if anyone can be Bi to the protagonist or if we didnt had an avatar and teh protagonist (ex ike) would be gay...
As for money talk... rest assure that in a capitalistic system companies have put the numbers into account and they saw that having more diversity actually brings more money than not having.... otherwise rest assured that they wouldn't even try it... there are money making companies not civil rights activists... thats why queer baiting is so strong in movies/tv series these days
Also please dont use the Japanese market as an argument cause most of it is empty words... anime had gay characters for years and i never saw any backlash while disney havent gave us any LBGTQ character....
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17 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:
Well thats quite an uphill battle in Japan.
They have LOOOOOOONG way to go before you get them to decide to be inclusive to the degree the west has been. Its just that this kind of thing has gotten people quite bitter on franchises, like for instance the Persona fanbase who wants gay and trans content but its just a thing that japanese are slowly (And i mean SLOWly) getting introduced into, so i think people just have to adjust expectations, moreso in a series which relies heavily in relationships like Fire Emblem and Persona do.
IS already did the first steps in fates but dont expect them to try to push the envelope just yet (Moreso when those steps were merely aiming at a demographic that doesnt really wants such content for the progressive aspect of it).
I am sorry but this doesnt prove anything.... especially when Japanese anime are full of gay characters and no oen bats an eye while "progressive west" disney hasn't given us any gay character!!
for example sailor moon had a lesbian couple, a gay couple, other gay characters and even in a sense trans (sailor stars) while all these were changed or were cut in sailor moon dub version....
so yeah real life politics doesnt always translate in art...
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14 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:
Nationality matters in this case since the focus group that IS based their desicion on artist is inherently japanese so wether this desicion was the correct one or not will be decided by their recepion.
Also Kozaki IS the most popular artist, the forums reception are rather inconsequential. Like how you will read Camilla hate on the internet while she is very popular for the general public. So my point is mainly that despite the reception you read around this artist in the internet might has been of the liking of the general public.
Lucina actually did it, to the point that Nintendo basically ignored Chrom's status as the Lord protagonist and put Lucina in Smash first and she has the most alts in Heroes compared to the other popular characters i believe.
FE has become a global franchise so pretty sure Japanese nationality doesn't matter anymore.... Not to mention that NA has close to double the Japanese sales...
Look for example pkmn Gen5 was popular in japan but its the least popular everywhere else.... so for 2 str8 gens now GF parents to the global market and their nostalgia for gen1....
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10 minutes ago, RexBolt said:
I understand, but there will be never a time where i'm not all over a (possible) Gentle Giant archetype.
It's my favorite archetype together with the money-hungry schemer (Anna's my eternal BFF)!
It seems we have a common! My ultimate BFF is Charlotte.... they way i staned her when she was introduced in conquest.... Best introduction ever!
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5 minutes ago, RexBolt said:
Exactly, like i may not have been clear on my previous post but Raphael being cute was just to me, not all of us in general. I may not see what's so ugly you find in him but i also don't feel much into the 2 main dudes beyond the chance of them being cool friends to have. Now Raphael looks like he could easily big spoon me (i'm way taller than i want to be).
It just proves that it all comea down to preferences.... and saying that a character is gay bait (solely on his appearance) its silly... Personally not only i dont find Raphael good looking but i hate this over the top masculine body.... My FE crushes are Shiro lucas, Lonqu ... From the ones i played... from others Ike is definitely a snack!
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35 minutes ago, Book Bro said:
As a gay person, I can confirm that our likes and dislikes are just as diverse as heterosexual people and while Claude may appeal to some gay men, others may have different opinions. I'm sure that he'll be popular in general with that audience since he's a good looking young guy, but I'm not convinced he was designed exclusively with the LGBTI community in mind; I'm pretty sure the "pretty boy" look also appeals to heterosexual women.
this!! Its silly how str8 people patronize us.... As they like good looking people so are we... but its not like we have some super specific "profile" that all gay men share...
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10 minutes ago, starburst said:
Want to bet who will be the # 1 gay pick of this game, by far?
Today is February 17th, shall we give it until release date to collect? A month later perhaps?
That gay friend who told me that line is back in Ireland, I think, and I am currently overseas. But if I won, it would be great to invite him, share a drink and tell him how profound his words are ten years later. He he he.
and how are we going to count the gay vote?
Well i am gay and i dont vote claude.... are u? cause if u are not it seems like i am winning so far....
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20 minutes ago, starburst said:
Claude does not need to be. But the target of his design is clearly not women. That is the nod.
As a gay friend told me years ago about a guy at a party: ‘Oh, dear, but with that look, he surely is. He might simply not know it yet.’
u are talking about 2 different things here.... Also claude's design definitely doesnt target to gay man....
3 minutes ago, RexBolt said:I think you have no idea about what you talking. If Claude doesn't do it to you fine but straight women is the artist #1 target demo and Claude and Dimitri are influenced by that.
If we are talking designs to draw a gay guy attention we can get more with Raphael's design frankly.
ew no offence but i dont think u know what u are talking about either... who would chose raphael when he has that kind of face
FE16 Same-Sex Relationship Discussion
in Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Posted · Edited by Pegasus Knight
this!
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Anyway i am disgusted! instead of making the logical option and make claude Bi (as it would to make sylas in fates) they gave us one option and its below average.... why cant we have a hot dude! 🤣