Makaze

Yeah man, you're beginning to sound like Fable: I am feeling a lot better about Evan and Bart both after interacting. Evan more so. I think he genuinely annoyed and busy, and he is responding perfectly as he would if he were town in this scenario. Back to Zeo ##Vote: @Zeonth

Like... If this is the best you can do, it's simply not good enough to win the game, unfortunately. At some point -- IMO, D2 is the standard -- you have to have read every player and be up to date on all of them so that your reads aren't happening in a vacuum. The longer you wait the worse the catchup is, and then you're just a drag on the team. How do you plan to make up for that disadvantage?

No... Solving is trying to put together the entire game state. You're not actively trying to convince others. You're distancing yourself from the lynch the same way you did with Satsuma. If you're sure he's town, then you need to do a better job of steering the town to the right people.

I'm really liking how you're responding to my case, and I don't think you make sense with my other scum reads, so you have moved down. But, lines like this "It's like... his posts are bad, but they're better then last game, so I'm not really scumreading him for it?" ping me really bad, and make me doubt my never w/w statement. You are the most likely lynch today. Evan has to be aware of that. What do you think of Evan's passive town read on you in light of how people have you as their top read?

You've been floating there for a little while, but yeah, these questions aren't going anywhere. The right question is "How are you solving?"

Evan and Bart are never w/w I believe lynching Evan clears the PoE significantly, and I don't think what he is doing is solving, including how he replied to that ISO read Evan > Fable / Bart > Zeonth And we have a three way tie, which should be fun, who is switching?

##Vote: @EvanManManMan

... Fair.

He was pointing that all of your lynch candidates were also all of the people on the wagon. Since its unlikely all 3 were on the wagon, you should have at least one suspect who's not.

Okay, he's shading you. But, he also had a point. Do you think all three scum were on the Satsuma wagon?

Who are you talking to, in particular?

It's a general rule that you don't need to prepare statements you believe in or come naturally to you. Your reads list reads as posturing. lol My mentor does know how you play, they were the one who pointed out your other scum game to me, but yeah, I meant that more generally in that others haven't defended you for that behavior on meta basis (which is the only basis I can see).

Alright. When I was reading Bartozio's ISO there were some things that seemed tonally off to me. This (in rvs) just seems weird to me. It's not natural, and the preparedness of his statements is pinging. I wanted to chalk it up to just way of talking, but there are inconsistencies. I'll talk more about that later. He spends all that time casing Xanodj and then switches to Fable with a one liner. As others pointed out to me, this isn't normal for him, and there is only a single lead up post before this. First he asked Fable to produce reads, and then when he did produce reads, his entire case was "Those reads weren't worth the wait". I'd expect something more damning than this, like, you don't believe the reads are real, they agree with your ideas of who else is Mafia, and so on. This is a lazy casing tactic because it puts the work on Fable to implicate himself and Bart doesn't have to do a thing. He waits. If Fable produces real reads, he can back off and do it to someone else. If Fable underperforms, he can case him for underperforming. The fact that this is where his case begins and ends makes me think its not a genuine read, and could be bus or mislynch chasing as just as easily. None of that is really damning, but then when I read his reads list, something stuck out to me. Some of his reads come off as overly formed, while others read more naturally. Some of them are first drafts, and others are revisions. Most of the off ones are people I am town reading, and the Rapier is one we know is town, so this jumping between tone in one reads list is highly pinging. To check on my sanity and see if this was his normal game, I read his day 1 from his recent scum game. Here are some examples: He got lynched, losing the game. One thing I notice is he was a lot less formal and seemed more natural than he has in this game. I am baffled by that as town because you should not be more tense and uneven as town than as Mafia, so I'm going to chalk this up to him taking mentors advise in some cases, but being more natural in others. This is the real scum tell for me, there is no town reason to have these uneven tones across your post. You can tell these statements are prepared and copy pasted because of odd line breaks, so I'm not going to consider that the reason, before you try to defend and say you always type them up in a word document, I can see that line breaking in both games. What's pinging is the difference in tone from one read to the next, where you seem casual in one breath and tense in the next. Then there's the Satsuma vote. His Satsuma vote comes just one post after his Fable vote, and he quickly jumps on the grounds "Fable wagon isn't going anywhere". This is two easy vote swaps that lack actual strength compared to his Xandroj read in the space of a post. THANK YOU! This THANK YOU is just bad and pings me really bad, and makes me look back at his Xandroj wagon and think he only dropped it because it wasn't gaining traction, and his read didn't actually change. I'm pretty sure Bartozio is Mafia independent of who else is, based on these points and associations being all over the place.

I'm actually thinking that Zeo needs to get invested, and right now he can just ignore the votes. Maybe votes don't scare him, I don't know.

Evan's EoD quickfire reads read similar to his behavior in IDSFMM5, and his reads pretty much agreed with mine. He also brought up points about Rapier that made me question my town read, overall it seemed like he was making good content in a short time. On later inspection, he didn't do anything hard, and there wasn't a big progression to draw on since it happened in the last hours. I am withholding my thoughts on Bartozio until Bartozio posts... But, he and Zeonth were just viewing the thread and now they are gone again. A little more.

@Fenrir Aesir @RADicate @Mackc2 Can one of you vote for Zeonth so that we avoid a no lynch tie which pressures no one? I've seen Zeonth lurking quite a few times and not seen a lot to show for it (Bart is also viewing the thread right now).

I don't mean any offense, but if you don't at least read that Bartozio ISO well before EOD, I'm going to consider you stalling, real life be damned.

this is not doing you or me any favors. here, ill paste them for you, it's a big post though Bartozio Fenrir Aesir

Can you do a Bart or Fenrir ISO for me? I need to know how you handle being caught up as well as catching up.

If not Fable, who are your second and third lynch choices? Who do you think Fable is buddies with?

I think we've established our read on Fable. What do you make of other people? Do you have a reads list?

If you're not doing that, disregard, sorry for the shade.

In b4 he responds to that with anger... Fable, if that's what you're about to do, I'd rather you didn't engage unless it's trying to understand each other, because otherwise it's a waste of time.

Now that Fenrir has delivered their reads, going to respond to their RADicate question. I read a little bit of those games, @Fenrir, and I did see what you meant, but I still get strong towny vibes from RAD. It could be that they are being reserved because this is a mentor game, so it's not a strong case on its own, but something to consider if they do something else damning. TL;DR It's something, but it's weak. Should be obvious, I recently got called out for undermining my case by pushing it. I'm not going to press my own case because it has worn out by now, so it's going to be up to others if they find out he's scummy too. Sure. I went ahead and reread Fable's D1 there to make sure memory serves, he was definitively more relaxed than he is in this game. He did such things as: The overall attitude is that he is not aggressive, not defensive, and he spits out town reads on the fly based on his gut reactions, very similar to the way I have been ("X is town" out of nowhere, no quotes, etc) His entire demeanor in this Day 1 is very different. He's tense, defensive, and is more concerned with pushing suspicions than creating a town core. He even goes so far as to insult other players and say they need to get gut. It's a completely different attitude toward the players despite having a lot of the same members and it makes no sense to me. That, and it feels bad. Which is what set me on it. Not sure if this is a good answer, but this was my first handful of posts in IDNSFMM5: This feeds into my answer to the first question, but yes, I think it's scummy. He's not trying to interact with me or create a town core, and he has pretty much taken to hating on me because of how sure I am instead of how scummy I am. Town motivation is to re-evaluate if you aren't sure of my alignment, or to at least interact to bring new information, which I have tried to do. When I am scum read, I tend to think "What is this person thinking, and why?" and if I think they genuinely scum read me, I try to appeal to their instincts, and give them something else to believe in: that I am having genuine thoughts too (usually by casing someone else). Fable is just responding to everything I say with anger and "LOL nice shade bro", and it seems to go beyond OMGUS and into "I have to push his lynch until it happens" territory. Where I have moved on from my D1 case and have been trying to interact with him, he is the one who is shutting down this phase. His anger after having the Night to think about it is irrational as town, and scummy as scum. I'm assuming he's not irrational.

##Vote: @Zeonth I have a feeling the best pressure we can apply to him is with votes, otherwise we'll wall post toward EOD again.