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Mandokarla

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Everything posted by Mandokarla

  1. The reason I chose to exclude heart seals / other seals is because those seals functionally remove the lines between classes in the sense that anybody can be anything (with few exceptions). I'd have Odin high on the Swordfighter list because I have had exceptional success with Swordmaster!Odin. He'd probably be #3. But he comes as a mage, and his character is focused around being a mage, not a swordsman. Consider this from a newcomers perspective: Is it more helpful for a first playthrough to have an idea of who is best at what at base, or is it more helpful to a newcomer to look at a hyperfluid, situational, and expensive listing of Heart / Partner / Friendship seal combinations that may or may not be optimal? I'd say a newcomer will find more use out of the former. This isn't a character tier list, which would allow all of that. This is specifically for those base classes. Also, I actually had completely forgotten that Villager can promote into Master of Arms (edited, mistyped). How would you describe Mozu's viability as such, or as a Merchant, and where would you put her on the list as a result?
  2. Honestly, the class skills are better. Rally Defense will ALWAYS be useful in either route, and it gives Camilla something to do when she doesn't have anything to kill. I also find that Swordbreaker is much more valuable than trample, as the only things Camilla can have problems hitting are enemy swordmasters or heroes. Swordbreaker just kills the WTA swords have over her default axes. Savage Blow is inconsequential chip damage, and trample, while a nice damage boost, isn't going to be the thing that makes you win in the lategame -- you probably won't really need it. Now, I dont heart seal her into WL until she gets savage blow anyway, just cuz its not a hassle to wait four levels, but thats the big thing for me. But this discussion is tangential, as HS are not to be considered here.
  3. Shit, you're absolutely right. I almost want to make the exception for her because she's worthless as a villager, but you're right, I'll shift her down.
  4. So having beaten Conquest Hard (too scared right now to try Conquest Lunatic) and just about finished with Revelations Hard, I was wondering what you guys think of the various classes/archetypes and which characters are "best in class". As in, which of the three base ninjas is the best, which of the casters (mages and diviners) is the best, and so on. I am thinking purely in their base classes and promotions, and for the story mode. So I guess the rules for this discussion are as follows: - No DLC classes or characters. - No Corrin. - No consideration of Partner/Friendship / Heart seals (because at that point you can create a monster of any character given enough gold). - Join times \ availability are important, but that cannot be the main staple of your argument for or against a unit. For example, Revelations Odin joins late, at the point where your main party is promoted, and is a pain to grind up into use -- but his damage/utility results are subpar at best without some interesting reclassing using seals, which breaks the rule above (I do love Swordmaster!Odin, but that doesn't adhere to this ruleset). Arguments can be on a game-by-game basis. I don't want to talk about healers, because there's a lot of them, and it is very route dependent. For example, Conquest Elise is Jesus Christ in pigtails on a horse. Revelations Elise is an adorable benchwarmer, and eventually Odin's bedwarmer. Not going to talk about the beast units because the Kids are just straight up better because they get access to a parent's skill. The Wolves are better than the foxes IMO though, because of bulk. EDITS: 10/11/17: Mozu moved to lances (we all make her an archer and think of her that way, but she does technically need a heart seal to be usable, so I can't break my own rules, can I? I'll leave her description though, still kinda works. Some minor clarification edits 10/11/17: I FORGOT KIRAGI I'M SORRY. Also, some shifting in the Archer rankings. 10/13/17: I forgot more people. Such a bloated cast. Adding Percy, Anna, Izana. Will add Rhajat, Fuga, and Scarlet after reasoning for their placement is provided (I've never used them). I suppose I'll start with my personal ranking, which will probably change as the discussion develops: Mages 1.) Ophelia -- Conquest is a specialist-oriented game, meaning you want someone to do their one job super well. Ophelia consistently turns into a glass cannon that can one-round or one-shot many units with her personal tome. In Conquest, where your only other mage option really worth talking about is Leo (Mage!Odin just never performs for me, sadly), this makes her very valuable. Odin's early join allows for her birth relatively early on in the game when compared to other kids (with the exception of F!Corrin Dwyer and Effie!Percy). In Revelations, she is harder to get by a decently large margin, but the work required to build a support between Odin and someone else is, in my opinion, worth it. 2.) Leo -- Leo being #2 and not #1 is going to trigger people, because in Conquest he joins at a good time, with good bases (needs a speedwing, that's it) and is mounted. There, the key requirements for a strong unit. Oh, and also a powerful personal tome with a situationally useful effect (Final battle vs. Iago comes to mind, with Leo dueling the room full of Sorcerers). So why do I put him this low? Well, its because his damage output is just not high enough for endgame without heart sealing him into a sorcerer (which would then make him quite powerful indeed, I've tried it). Leo not being #1 is purely opinion. Strictly speaking, Leo is probably a better choice for #1, but I value Ophelia's damage highly. He does take a penalty from his late join time in Revelations, but it really isn't that late, so it's nbd. 3.) Hayato -- He's got acceptable bases and good growths in Revelations, so he can make a quality Onmyoji. I think his potential outscales that of the other options, though I admittedly haven't done a ton of digging for that comparison -- and I haven't played Birthright. I don't have a lot else to say here, I found myself not using him in my Revelations run despite his nice early join time and the lack of real mages at that point in the game. 4.) Orochi -- She can hit hard, with a good magic stat, but she's slow. Oh dear god is she slow. If you can't double, that's a major problem. Her personal is also functionally worthless, as there's no reason to really capture units in any of the games except MAYBE Haitaka in Conquest for the Rally Defense pre-Ch.10. 5.) Izana -- He is a strong replacement unit. He is a decently strong, but not exceptional, Onmyoji, with a personal skill that makes ALL units within 2 tiles of him take 2 less damage. If properly positioned, this can be helpful, if not properly positioned, this can be a detriment. You get him in by getting the bath house to max level IIRC, which takes awhile, and is a waste of DVP for a lot of the game. So he's good, but any of the above mages are just flat out better (except maybe Orochi, because of how many levels she would already have). 6.) Nyx -- She has higher dps potential than Orochi, in my experience, but she at no point avoids getting one shot by a physical unit -- even some mages can ORKO her, and that frailty is really bad for me personally as a player (I have a tendency to miss 83+% hit chances. A lot. It's a curse I swear). Ophelia above is not much bulkier, but she does a fair amount more damage and has a strong personal weapon, so I forgave her for that. 7.) Odin -- I'm sorry Odin, I love you, but you are just a middling mage at best. You are at your peak magic performance when Nos-tanking, and that isn't even as strong a tactic in Fates. A forged and named Mjolnir tome can potentially patch up your offensive problems, and your skill ensures a lot of Vengance procs (which doesn't matter, as Nos can't use offensive skills, so no synergy), but you just aren't a stellar mage. You are leagues better as another class, but we cannot consider this, because of my rules. You make a decent Dark Knight I suppose, but unless you're Corrin or Leo, Dark Knight just isn't a great class. Ninjas 1.) Kagero -- Based purely on my experience in Revelations, Kagero joins at a decent time, and only a level or two behind, so getting her to be in line with the rest of the team requires practically no effort. She has the highest strength growth of the ninjas, and her speed is equally high (70%/70%), both of those being higher than Saizo's, and her speed only being 15% lower, which doesn't affect much. She joins only three chapters after Kaze, and has a much higher potential for damage. While yes, ninjas are primarily debuffers, being able to have the strength to reliably kill things is incredible for a ninja. As a master ninja she won't proc Lethality much, but it's useless ass Lethality so who cares. She abuses Shurikenfaire to do even more damage (my kagero is currently doing roughly 30+ x2 to everything she initiates against that isn't another Master Ninja), and in the more even pairup against enemy Ninjas, her personal skill functions like a situational counter that also mirrors the debuffs. This allows Kagero to win just about every 1v1 (and a lot of 1v2, if paired up) Ninja duel in Revelations. She's also hot as fuck, so I can't in good conscience leave that out. 2.) Kaze -- In every route of the game, you get Kaze early. He's one of your first locktouch units (except for Niles), he's fast, so he can kill weaker enemies in the earlygame to scale up his level to stay somewhat relevant, and his natural Ninja kit allows you to easily set up kills for other units that need exp. His personal skill has saved me a few times, but you can't rightly rely on it (unless you have Kaze support Midori -- then you might be safe). However, as the game progresses he simply stops doing damage -- especially in Conquest, where you can't really get good shuriken for him (No Barb or Sting shuriken, those are the big-uns to make him useful). As a master ninja in conquest, he can be a BOON to you with a Hunter's Knife during the Furry Genocide, but after that he just can't hold his own. He's also made of wet tissue paper, so oneshots happen if an archer looks at him wrong. 3.) Saizo / Asugi -- His best growth is 80% in skill. Ninjas don't have issues hitting things, and lethality frankly is a trash skill that isn't worth using, if given the option to replace (which you wont, no heart seals, remember?). Every one of his other growths are average at best, and fall severely lacking behind the other two ninjas in the stats Ninjas need to be effective. Combine that with a personal skill that is literally only a positive in scrub-casual (phoenix) mode, and Saizo is the weakest ninja of the bunch. Again, we aren't considering seal usage here, even though I've heard he might be a decent Samurai. Asugi's base growths are similar to Saizos, but they might be able to be patched up with a good parent. I'm not sure. Cavaliers 1. ) Xander -- Siegfried is an amazing weapon, Xander always comes into the game with excellent bases, and in a class that can be both a damage class and a physical tank class (especially post-Defender). Good movement is obvious as a Paladin, and he is just a solid unit that most players agree is a very powerful and necessary unit for higher-difficulty runs. I don't need to say much more. 2.) Siegbert is a mini-Xander sans Siegfried. His personal makes him a decent pair-up bot, but his stats are respectable upon recruitment, and he makes a solid Great Knight (a class I'm not particularly fond of, but his stats are good). His effectiveness is depended on his mother to an extent, however. 3.) Sophie -- Silas' kid outshines him by default, especially with a good mother. She has a fun personal skill and can grow into a solid Paladin come lategame. She's a decent choice to pair up with Siegbert actually. Again, effectiveness may be hindered or buffed by her mother. 4.) Peri -- Peri is a mixed bag for me. On one hand, she has decent growths in strength and speed (60+% at base and with either promotion). On the other hand, she is frail. 35% defense growth frail. In Revelations, you get her too late for her to be worth training. In Conquest however, she could be worth training, as she comes into the game early on, at the same time as Laslow, and at a decent level with usable bases. Her personal skill is weird and slightly un-intuitive to make use of, as it gives her +4 to all offensive stats after initiating combat and killing the target. But only for one turn, meaning that to USE that stat boost you either need to dance her (which may be worth it, depends on scenario), or put her in a position where she can use those buffs in enemy phase, while counterattacking. Let me remind you, 35% defense growth, and base 10 in both defense and res in Conquest upon recruitment. She can counterattack mages fine (55% res growth), but if she's counterattacking on enemy phase, she is probably in melee, and Bloodthirst doesn't give her any defensive buff. So she's clunky to use to maximum potential. 5.) Silas -- He's good earlygame, and should be benched in the midgame, because he is painfully average in every way, and his personal skill encourages risking a reset-by-Corrin-death. Lean on him for as little time as possible. In Revelations, he's hot garbage with a late join time. In Conquest, he's mediocre at best but you get him early. Use him for his kid and move on with your life. 6.) Gunter -- It's Gunter. I need say no more. Swordfighters (Mercenaries and Samurai) 1.) Ryoma -- He has a personal 1-2 range weapon that gives him +4 str. This weapon pushes Ryoma into a power tier with Xander, though perhaps less reliable because of Swordmasters' reliance on dodging for survivability. Vantage is a skill I like a lot, and paired with Ryoma's high skill and Astra can lead to some clutch 1vMany scenarios -- but don't rely on these, please? His stats and growths are above average, and in Revelations he joins even before Xander and Leo IIRC, so you have more time to abuse him if you should so desire. There isn't a ton to say here. 2.) Soleil -- With a non-mage mother Soleil can be a very solid unit. As both a Bow Knight and a Hero she can perform as a solid offensive threat with her base 60% strength growth, though her defenses aren't amazing. An argument could be made for placing Laslow here instead because he is slightly bulkier, and therefore can more effectively use Strong Riposte, but Soleil is a reliable unit with a strong personal skill. Her personal benefits from having a bulky female unit support her (In my runs I've supported Soleil with GK!Sophie), and that can effectively patch up her defensive problems. 3.) Laslow -- Laslow is a (Marginally) bulkier Soleil, and his high skill, strength, and luck let him be a reliable, if not exceptional, player phase and enemy phase unit (if given a 1-2 range weapon). All of his pros are generic Merc/Hero pros, aside from his unique personal skill. His personal rallies +1 speed and +1 strength, which may not seem like much, but can make a distinct impact on a chapter. If you promote him into a Bow Knight he also picks up Rally Skill, so he can (by still following these rules) become a semi-respectable rallybot, which is never a bad thing. He is a solid unit all around. 4.) DISCLAIMER -- In my Revelations runs I have not ever found much effective use out of the samurai retainers, and therefore I don't have much of a good idea for how good they are. They just never seem to pull their weight, especially fucking weak ass revelations Hana. So I'm going to assume at least one of them (Probably Hinata's kid, kids are usually better) falls in here. 5.) Selena -- Selena is a slightly weaker, but noticably faster, Mercenary that comes into the game just a couple chapters before Laslow, in a chapter that has many axe users that she can just kill for easy experience. She, much like Laslow, won't become a stand-out combat unit in the lategame, but she can, like Laslow, be a reliable pick with a good pair up, however her personal skill provides disincentive for pairing up, as it is solely a situational crit for the attack stance -- a situation in which her supported ally's crit doesn't kill the enemy, which doesn't happen often. She's decent, but second rate. 6.) If they werent in #4, they go here. Fliers 1.) Camilla -- Joins early in both playable routes, has excellent bases and actually okay growths, she has flier utility, and is just generally strong. Malig Knight is not the optimal class for her, Wyvern Lord is, but that takes a Heart Seal so I won't consider it. She as a Malig Knight still has strong speed and strength, allowing her to scale into the lategame as a damage threat without babying (or even dedicated use). Her magic stat is just bad, so its not worth trying to use her as a flying magic threat -- so unless you're one of those people who burns a ton of spirit dust on her, she will be a physical threat pretty much exclusively. That said, she is a strong flyer and can ORKO most of the other characters in the game without much effort. She also gives some nice physical attributes to her kid, some good strength and some good defense. Excellent unit. 2.) Caeldori -- Cordelia, because we all know the best pairing is the Selena!Subaki pairing for story reasons, is a quite solid flying unit, and frankly the only flyer besides Camilla that that I found good use out of. Hinoka was good, but fell flat. Her personal evens out power imbalances to an extent, she has good stats, and a good parent can double down on that. She is a solid flying unit that is worth using useless Subaki for. 3.) Hinoka -- Her personal skill is really nice, but other than that she just never works out statwise in my Revelations. I might just be unlucky, but I don't have much to say. Remember, I have not played Birthright. 4.) Shigure -- Shigure can either be quite powerful or totally useless depending on his father. If he gets some rally skills passed down to him, and then promotes into a Sky Knight, he can double down on his personal skill, which is a rally that does small heals. This is usefull, but rarely lifesaving. It is just easy sustain. Like other pegasus riders, he will not hit super hard, but he will usually double, and his utility as a flier makes him usable by default. His combat effectiveness is reliant upon his father, and his best non-Corrin father is Kaze by far, giving him a 53%/65% strength/speed growths, which can make him deadly indeed. 5.) Reina -- Reina is a powerful midgame pre-promote in Revelations with a mini-Lifetaker personal skill (which I am a fan of). Her stats are decent, and she will serve as that strong flyer until you can get actually decent fliers trained up. A big weakness of hers is her total lack of supports with non-Corrin units, which limits her pair-up potential for stat bonuses. She is your midgame crutch unit if you need it, and I say that's okay. She will be effective for awhile, but she stops being useful lategame. 6.) Percy (tentative ranking) -- Percy has always been hit or miss with me. I usually get access to his paralogue (which is the child chapter that actually gives me the most trouble for some reason) pretty early because it's easy to pair off Effie and Arthur and then forget the dad exists. Percy is another wyvern rider, with decent growths and really high skill and luck. But he has never seemed to work out well enough for me to justify filling a slot on my team with him. I'm interested in other opinions here, potentially in what mother is better off for him. I've tried a few different ones, but Percy just never works out. 7.) Beruka -- Tankier Camilla(?). Without the lovely breasts. Her personal skill frankly doesn't matter, dealing +4 damage to helpless units makes little difference when those units are healers or archers 9 times out of 10 -- the latter of which you probably wont double, and therefore shouldn't be hitting. She's decent pair up fodder, gives good defense to kids, but she's overshadowed by just about every other flier. 8.) Subaki -- Subaki doesn't do damage. At all. He's hot garbage and literally exists to help bring Caeldori into existence. I hate this unit. Fighters / Savages These are just kinda...bad. Across the board. I don't use them for similar reasons as a certain Berserker-triggered user that will probably show up here ( <3 ). Doesn't help that Arthur is abysmal, Charlotte is bad, I didn't use Rinkah and I just don't have an opinion on where they fall relative to eachother. I'm interested in what you guys have to say on this one. Knights 1.) Benny -- Benny is a min-maxed tank, make his ass a General for wary fighter, and watch him just not take damage from anything that isn't a mage. His strength is decent, his defense is excellent, his res actually could be worse, and that's fine. I personally don't find myself using this entire class of units in the endgame, just because of low movement. 2.) Effie -- She is Benny, but with earlier Conquest join time, and respectably higher damage output. In Conquest, she's better because of availability and damage, but Revelations Benny is better across the board, so why use her there? 3.) Ignatious -- He's like Benny, but a child unit, and therefore potentially really good or gimped. It's hard for me to rank this class of characters, because they all do the same kind of thing, with slight variation. Lancers 1.) Oboro -- Comes early, comes strong, her base classes have some excellent skills, and her personal skill is only situationally effective in Revelations, but that's okay. Lances in general are pretty damn strong in Fates as a whole, and she can abuse that. She's your best candidate for the Waterwheel come lategame, and can be both a debuffer, a frontliner (if not a tank, per se) and a damage threat. 2.) Shiro -- Child unit, child of Ryoma. Potentially stronger than Oboro, but I haven't personally used him, so I'm not sure. Again, this is a category i'm interested in discussion about -- for learning purposes. 3.) Mozu -- She has a lot of levels to get stats in, and as Conquest's only potential Sniper, she has a lot of value. Her stats will lead her to out damage Takumi in the late game, she is only #2 and not #1 because of the amount of effort it takes to level this little girl up. She can scale up super hard, and can be decent, but I find that she isn't worth the grind required. That exp could go towards other units. But all of this is moot because she needs that heart seal to do literally anything. Archers 1.) Takumi -- His stats are only slightly above average at best, but he is #1 because the Fujin Yumi is just...strong. His availability is excellent, his usability is similarly so, and he can scale into the lategame because he gets carried by the Fujin Yumi. 2.) Kiragi -- He's a better Takumi without the Fujin Yumi by default, and give him a strong mother like Camilla and he can make for a super powerful Kinshi knight. His personal skill is designed around enemy phase, which isn't a great thing for any archer unit, but it can be helpful if you want him to duel Ninjas with WTA. His good stats and strong weapon options in Revelations make him quite powerful, and is worth a slot on your team. Come endgame, he might be more powerful than Takumi (especially if you make him a Sniper instead). 3.) Nina -- She's Niles but with more magic focus. I haven't personally had her be incredible ever, but she can put in work with a Shining Bow and provides excellent staff utility. Her personal benefits from you having two dudes paired up nearby, and that isn't a hard thing to do. Her biggest flaw for me has always been her abysmal defense. She is super frail, and that can make her a liability. That said, I think my experiences with her have resulted from me making really bad decisions regarding her mother, and I have been told by others that with an actually good mom she becomes a very nice adventurer or bow knight that can replace Niles on Conquest or be a solid unit in Revelations. 4a.) Setsuna -- She's either #4 or #5 depending on which Shura you are looking at, but she can become another Mozu, with just a little less effectiveness. Her personal is kinda just...bad. It's not useful, so she gets not unique combat edge. 4b.) Shura -- In Conquest he's a decent Adventurer that you will usually kill for free Boots. In Revelations he's a super powerful prepromote that you can get pretty damn early. You can bench him until chapter 20, then pick him up and he will put in work. He does decent damage, and he comes with staff utility. His personal lets him debuff 1 range units, which is situationally quite nice. He's solid. 4c.) Anna -- Anna will be a better archer for you than Shura outside of Revelations. her personal is a fun little quirk that nets you some spare cash, but she won't be doing a lot of damage until she promotes to Adventurer to make good use out of her magic stat with a Shining Bow and staff utility. Shining Bow Anna can hold her own, but her biggest weakness is her physical frailty, so don't misposition her. Her recruitment chapter is...interesting. I have problems with trying to do it early (as in pre-CQ ch.10), but if you can do it, it's pretty decent. 6.) Midori -- She can be a money-generator for you, or a decently powerful unit as a Merchant. Mechanist is also an option for her, and her stats are decent enough to facilitate both option, but as a merchant she gets the capability to generate gold, and then throw it at people for bonus damage. She has some powerful sets that abuse heart seals and the like, but she's a solid unit with just her base promotion options. Her personal makes her generate gold so much more often, it's really nice, especially in college-debt-poor Conquest. But, she doesn't kill as efficiently as others, and as such is somewhat gimmicky. 7.) Niles -- He's great earlygame in Conquest, unusable in Revelations, and he will never be a superstar or even a reliable lategame unit. You use him into the midgame, then you should either not need him or replace him with Nina. I'm really interested in what you guys have to say :)
  5. Characters that I like, that others dislike: I really like Owain/Odin, because while it is easy to shit on him for his eccentric mannerisms, he has some depth that a lot of people just don't seem to see or appreciate. He suffers from survivors guilt as bad as any of the Awakening kids -- especially because (in his support with his father) his parents died protecting him. He writes his stories and comes up with these ridiculous names because they are something he can control, something that he can use to motivate him to be a better warrior, a better hero, so that nobody else he loves has to die for him. He copes with PTSD through creative writing essentially, and in both Awakening and Fates his proficiency with martial weapons and their maintenance is expressed -- a skill that provides a strong foundation for his character's worth as a fighter. In Fates, both in his supports and with the DLC story chapters, you see that part of the reason for him doubling down on these behaviors is to enforce his identity in this new world, to create a persona that he can lean on as he adapts to a new name, a new life, a new style of things. In his supports with Ophelia and his Awakening buddies, he clearly expresses a longing for home and a maturity towards his duty that shows his growth as a person. His support with Leo is one of my favorite supports in Fates, for two reasons: firstly, it is shown that now-Odin has pulled off some incredible shit in the service of Leo (which puts his power level higher than his stat spread would suggest -- something that also occurs in his supports with Selena), and secondly it shows that Odin is still trying to be better, to grow and protect people -- but that his heart is as big as it has ever been. I honestly feel like part of the reason he breaks down in a couple supports (w\Severa in Awakening, Felicia in Fates) is because the persona that he has to lean on -- the identity that he has had to lie about, when identity is a huge thing for him (and me) -- is being broken, and he goes back to being alone again. He has a big heart, and a rich mind for creation, and I admire that. I like all of the Awakening trio honestly, though I think Severa/Selena is the lowest of those three for me. Laslow matures (in perhaps the wrong, but funny, ways?) too, but Selena kinda just...doesn't as much. But I still like her supports. I have others, but Owain is the big one for me to talk about. Characters that others like, that I hate: I've always found Lucina to be incredibly generic good-girl-lord with the addition of PTSD. She's like a more mature/broken Eirika, and I'm pretty meh towards Eirika (and Ephraim for that matter, SS is my fave in the franchise, but I like the supporting cast and villains significantly more than the Lords). I suppose I could give her another shot, but ehhh.... I've never liked Hinoka, she's goddamn Tommy Pickles. I can't un-see Rugrats Emblem. Her voice man, ugh. I've always thought Gilliam and Moulder were both boring characters and bad units. The only armor knight I've ever been able to use without feeling hobbled is Effie, and Effie is low-key busted for a lot of Conquest. Moulder is just a boring character -- though I take it back, he isn't a bad unit. Staff utility alone is nice, and his Con is great, but I've always used Natasha instead because I like her more. Perhaps overrated is the best word for my view of them. Lyn is a garbage unit. Her "mode" in FE7 is far too long, and unskippable the first time through, and just bad. Her supports are mediocre, but as a unit she is just not redeemable. She is made of paper and I've never had a promoted Lyn be able to ORKO a single promoted enemy in any run. Hector can do it, Eliwood can do it. Lyn suffers from "first-girl" status, and I just don't care about her.
  6. Bumrush left ASAP for CH8. I screwed it on my first run and had to burn a Freeze use to keep that lancer on the middle left house away -- I think you can make it without wasting it. Pair up odin with Niles and have Niles kill those bottom mages, he takes practically zero damage.
  7. The list looks fairly solid to me, aside from a few things already addressed above. For me, Joshua I think should move up to B. While, yes, Swordlock is bad, Joshua has a lot of time to get exp, which lets him become a pretty reliable combat unit with very little investment. I also think Myyrh should move up to C purely because she levels super easily, and if you only deploy her on the last two-ish maps she should have plenty of Dragonstone to use against Lyon, and maybe even have a few uses against the Demon King. That said, she does lack utility and availability -- and not having additional dragonstones hurts her hard. But I think C is fair. I also think Knoll should move up to C, but I'm a sucker for interesting caster archetypes. I think that mostly because his summons are the best main-game summons possible, they can actually kill things (wasting exp, but in an emergency its nice), but using them to bait out enemies risk-free is super helpful. You can also have him get decent with staves, so I think Knoll has some amazing utility. He's just made of wet tissue paper.
  8. I mean Heart Seals are limited but there aren't a super large number on units I'd use it on. Jakob is an option if F!Corrin to get an early paladin, and you want one Heart Seal for Corrin, but I found that I didn't need a lot of weapons or staves earlygame, so I had the funds to spend on a few seals. All I needed was a Javelin for Effie and all was set on that score for like 10 chapters. I honestly don't see a laundry list of reasons not to HS him, unless you hate his character and just don't like to use him as a result of that. In that case, debating taste in character writing accomplishes nothing (especially in a shitshow work of writing like Fates).
  9. I'm on Chapter 18 right now. Camilla has gotten enough use to be level 8, so she's still usable. Xander is a wall, that's all I need him to be. Leo is kinda deadweight, but he's level 5. Xander might be level 2, I don't remember. I've already used them more that I'd like, but at this point I can't afford not to. It's two more chapters until I can go on a child spree with offspring seals.
  10. I don't know how much longer I'll be able to go without them, aside from Pearl Harb-- Chapter 10 I mean, it hasn't been hard like I was expecting until now. Resets in the interim chapters came from me hitting end turn accidentally, 3% crits, or me just miscounting range. Chapter 10 is actually as it stands one of my favorite chapters in all of Fire Emblem, I feel it is a very fair and nuanced challenge map. It was hard in the right ways, but now the game is getting hard because enemies have defense stats now. I think I might have to start using Xander as a meatshield. Still torn on Leo, he's so damn slow. I might feed him Felicia though, I hadn't considered that pairing for some reason. Yeah, I'm conviced that this chapter is the chapter where Swordmaster!Odin has to bide his time and just wait to kill bosses.
  11. I know it isn't good for Selena, but she's not my focus here. Mine does decently on her own, though I need to feed her a few kills, she's behind a few levels. I'm actively trying to not abuse the royals because frankly I don't like them much. I think Leo is pretty objectively bad, Camilla is too good, Xander misses every other attack/counterattack, and Elise is mandatory. I try to keep Leo/Xander undeployed and only use Camilla sparingly. I need Elise as a healer, so she stays. Selena is also my least favorite of the Trio, so I am not gonna be sad if she falls off super hard. Laslow and Odin are my bros. Regarding the mokushu, when I played the chapter I think they only managed to Hit Odin twice in total. I had him paired with Laslow because I like their support convos. In my first playthrough I did Selena and Laslow which seemed much better to me. It also made Soleil decently strong, if somewhat lackluster in regards to inherited skills (which is because I didn't wait to get her, oh well). Anyway, I could reliably camp Odin out as a chokepoint holder or as bait and be completely fine. Made the chapter a lot easier for me. Also, Ophelia got vantage, so I can set up that Vengance + Vantage combo once I reclass her into Sorc. Only just thought about that.
  12. My Swordmaster Odin is level 8 right now, his spread looks like 36HP/20Str/9Mag/24Skl/28Spd/25Lck/17Def/13Res. His S support with Selena puts him over 30 speed and gives him some other lovely stats, but speed is best stat. Since posting this I cleared two chapters, now on the chapter where Zola captures the Hoshidan royals -- at this point I can't just throw him about willy nilly, things have defense now. Before that I could have him and Selena paired up and cut through the Mokushu ninjas. My problem on that map was me misplacing Elise....a lot. I'll admit to babying him a bit early on, and I might have just been rng blessed, but yeah. I'm on chapter 18 now, and I definitely CAN'T use him the same way now. Too many Great Knights and Generals. Edit: Tangential side note, Selena as Ophelia's mother actually isn't terrible. It's definitely not optimal, I think Elise is the best mother for Ophelia, but Selena as her mom doesn't reduce any of her growths or lower any of her stat caps, it just rounds her out. Again, I know well-rounded isn't good for Conquest, but it's not terribad.
  13. I've been playing Conquest Hard Classic lately, and I was determined to use Odin because I love the Awakening Trio's characters, and I decided to test how Odin performs when you heart seal him back into Owain (Samurai). For me, this has resulted in a unit that I can quite reliably give a pair up partner to, and then throw him at half of the map and win. I realize that as a mage Odin is objectively bad, but after trying this I honestly think he is supposed to be heart sealed into a samurai. Unless your Corrin can go Samurai/Swordmaster, this would make him one of, if not the, only swordmaster-capable units on the Conquest route. This means Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, and the (to me) underrated Duelist's Blow. I know that sword-lock is traditionally a not-wanted attribute, but in Conquest a lot of the bosses are either at WT Disadvantage, or neutral WT, so Swordmaster!Odin is a fairly reliable boss-killer too. His personal skill lets you get acceptable amounts of crit from even just a forged Iron/Steel sword, but a forged and properly named Killing Edge gives him enough to crit reliably. Additionally, even though his skill growths don't make it really necessary, starting with Heartseeker lets him hit targets with high avoid in the early levels more easily -- though there aren't a terribly large number of ninjas before he would likely be promoting. I guess what I am posting this for is for discussion on whether or not you think it's worth the early Heart Seal. If you bring it with you to his recruitment chapter, there are a lot of axe-users that he can get easy kills on, but that heart seal might be better used on Corrin? What do you guys think?
  14. I think the reason people like Sacred Stones so much is because while yes, the basic plot is super simple good vs. evil with relatively little moral ambiguity, the characters are well developed in their supports -- they show different sides of themselves without being tropey or predictable. I think that people, myself included, love Sacred Stones so much because we love the cast more than the story. I will admit, as much as I love the Lyon/Eirika/Ephraim conflict, it isn't AS big as many think. Earlier someone mentioned that there were some pacing issues with Sacred Stones, and with some of the chilling reveal moments like with Orson or Ismaire's death. I would tend to agree with him, though I think Orson's case was given at least the minimum appropriate build up, the mention his wife and he shows some early signs of mad grief. That said, as I play Echoes, with all of its changes and improvements in writing, I find myself thinking that if Sacred Stones were given proper development time on a new gen it could become truly incredible
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