SpaceSamurai
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Posts posted by SpaceSamurai
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On 7/12/2017 at 3:33 AM, Hawk King said:
They might get 2-3HKO'd but they face abysmally low hitrates. The player is also assumed to be intelligent enough to use dracoshields and Angelic robes when they can significantly increase a units survivability.
Lute and Artur are no dodgetank. 30-40% hitrates sure seem low, but abysmally low? No. Every angelic robe in this game should be used on your main fliers. Dracoshield does help their durability but how much does it help? They might be able to take one more hit but probably still get 3HKO'd by stronger enemies. I would rather use the Dracoshield on someone that is actually durable and has better combat ability.
On 7/12/2017 at 3:33 AM, Hawk King said:The thing is that if Seth prevents Franz from ever becoming anything special then Garcia doesn't have a chance in hell of doing anything worthwhile. However on an optimal LTC run, it is best to use Seth basically only for boss kills or anytime that it is absolutely necessary. Overusing Seth in the beginning can actually cause for a lower total turncount than a Sethless LTC run can achieve. It is perfectly possible to make it to Chapter 8 with Seth having gained 4+ Lvs and both Franz and Vanessa at Lv 10 or higher. Garcia isn't doing squat in this scenario.
I don't see how Vanessa can reach lv 10 in just 9 chapters. She sucks at killing stuff, is lance-locked when the game is filled with axe users and gets 2HKO'd by almost everything. Not to mention, she's usually busy transporting other units so there's no way she could get enough kills to reach level 10. Garcia, however, doesn't have those issues, he starts at higher levels, doesn't get 2HKO'd by anything, doesn't get destroyed by archers and can deal significant damage to most enemies. Franz and Vanessa have higher move so they can catch up with Seth, but what's the point? Seth would steal all the kills before they could even land a hit on anything.
On 7/12/2017 at 3:33 AM, Hawk King said:His greatest contribution is probably helping to break walls in Chapter 3.
Chapter 4: Garcia is one of the best units to handle the zombie reinforcement or the revevant reinforcement while Seth is killing everything on the other side of the bridge.
Chapter 8: Garcia can kill the Knights in the chest room to clear the path for your other units. He is bulky enough to take hits from the knights and can even ORKO them with steel axes.
Chapter 9( Eirika's route) : Seth should be handling the southern part of the map. So Garcia along with your other units is neccesary to handle the rest of the map.
Chapter 11, 12, 15 (Eirika) : Leave Garcia at his starting position and wait until the reinforcement appears to kill them. High movement is unnecessary here. You will need someone with high HP to take hits and strong enough to kill enemies so Garcia is perfect for this job.
Garcia's contribution is obviously much more than just breaking walls in chapter 3.
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12 hours ago, Sturm said:
I agree you can't kill things if your units are dead but your units dying is not especially an issue for the most part. Having to use a Vulnerary is at times a hindrance but then so is having to hang back or spend time clearing the way for Moulder or Natasha.
What do you mean by "dying is not especially an issue for the most part" ? The generic bandits in chapter 3 have 15-16 attack with Iron axes, they deal 10-11 damage to base Garcia so he gets 3HKO'd, Garcia 2RKO the bandits so he will get hit twice( one hit on player phase and one hit on enemy phase), the only way for him to survive another hit without healing is by dodging. Aside from Seth and Gilliam, your other units have no better( or even worse) durability than Garcia so you will need healing utility pretty frequently.
12 hours ago, Sturm said:Staves give experience when you use them and they can still kill stuff on enemy phase I really don't get what you mean when you say their experience gains will be significantly limited, they won't be limited at all.
Lute and Artur have trouble surviving enemy phase. Even Saleh at base gets 3HKO'd by a lot of regular enemies so don't expect your other magic users to do any better.
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On 29/11/2017 at 8:35 AM, Sturm said:
they don't offer anything in rout maps in fact they hinder you by distracting enemies away from combat units.
It's never hard to keep your healer away from enemies's attack range, really. And no, healers offer a lot in route maps, you can't kill enemies fast if your units get killed first, so keeping them alive is essential, and using Vulneraries means you have to waste a turn so it will slow down your progress.
On 29/11/2017 at 8:35 AM, Sturm said:by the time you get to chapter 9-10 Artur or Lute should probably be promoted and they fill your healing needs especially as they want to be getting all the Staff uses they can to build Staff rank
Both promoted Artur and Lute have much lower staff rank than Moulder. And if they spend time spamming staves they will meet less combat, which significantly limits their exp gains. Moulder can reach A staves easily when unprompted while Artur still struggles to reach B staves.
On 29/11/2017 at 8:35 AM, Sturm said:I see them as being occasionally useful in the early game but afterwards they do nothing really, of course they can Warp in late game but because they gain levels so slowly they have terrible range so it's not really worth it when you have Saleh, Artur and Lute.
Moulder is your only secondary warp user if you play Ephraim's route and it never hurts to have a secondary warp user, Saleh appears too late so he won't reach A staves any time soon and Natasha takes forever to promote. And Lute?? When does she even reach A staves??
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59 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:
Except this only means something if he S ranks, which I don't think he's going to do in time when he never doubles ever. . . And I don't think that mentioning Duessel did your case any favors, since there was talk that he should drop (Eirika route Duessel being in B tier sounds kinda stupidiculous to me).
Why would the fact that Garcia doesn't double much have anything to do with his axe rank? Your units don't need to double enemies to gain more Wexp, Steel axe gives 2 Wexp and fatal hits also give double Wexp. Garcia has like 12,13 chapters to train before you get Garm, I would be surprised if he doesn't reach S axes after such a long span of time.
59 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:Anyways, the fact that even a Garcia promoted at 20 loses in most every stat to an instantly promoted Gerik is really quite sad.
Level 20 Garcia has higher strength and HP than insta-promoted Gerik, he only has slightly lower Speed and Defense so I don't think it's really a big difference. Even if Garcia somehow gets stats-screwed, his good availability is still enough to make up to his stats.
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On 11/22/2017 at 10:16 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:
Even so, if we're warpskipping, Garcia won't be accomplishing anything of note. And if he's dependent on Garm to do anything, that doesn't reflect on him in a positive light, IMHO... So as far as I'm concerned, you fell woefully short.
Garcia is actually one of the best units for warpskipping strategies. He can one-round a lot of late-game bosses thanks to Garm and his high strength. He's like Duessel( Eirika's route) but better offensively. And you don't even need to use Warp to transport Garcia lol, as I said, he can be rescued by your main fliers, therefore you can save Warp uses for later maps. Garcia's con is very flexible in some chapters( for example: chapter 19, the final one,etc )
23 hours ago, Hawk King said:Gerik is better than Garcia because he can become a Ranger. Ranger is in fact his best class. Only on 0% growths would you prefer to have his Hero class.
Ranger!Gerik is awful in route maps due to not having enemy phase. He also sucks at carrying other units due to his high Con. Not to mention, he starts with D bows, which is very inconvenient, at least axe rank is easy to increase since there're hand axes, Gerik struggles to use strong bows and therefore not very useful at fighting. Sure he has 7 mov, but he is also worse at combat, and he doesn't have access to powerful weapons like Garm, which hurts his late-game use.
23 hours ago, Hawk King said:Pretty much every single non-warp unit's value on this Tier list comes from what they do pre-Warp. Garcia does quite a bit before we start warping. Garm only helps him in the desert if on Ephraim's route and maybe for hitting the Demon King.
Chapter 17: HM Lyon has 46 HP and 20 Defense (+3 from the throne), Garcia at level 20/7 has 43 attack with Garm, he deals 46 damage to Lyon when doubling so he ORKO him. Garcia is obviously one of the best bosskillers in this chapter( if not the best).
Chapter 20: Riev has 51 HP and 16 Defense, 20/5 Garcia has 42 attack with Garm, he deals 52 damage to Riev, which is enough to ORKO him. Garcia is a good bosskiller in this chapter as well.
Even Seth at level 20 only has 38 attack with Vidofnir, he fails to ORKO the bosses I mentioned above, Garcia can accomplish the tasks that even Seth at max level can't, so i don't see how Garm "only help him in the desert".
MODEDIT: yo dont doublepost
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On 14/11/2017 at 3:50 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:
I'm honestly highly reluctant to buy into this - you cite Garm as an advantage for Garcia, but just how fast is he getting to S rank axes when he pretty much never doubles anything ever (that isn't the crap that literally anybody can double, that is)???
By the route split, it's totally possible for Garcia to reach B axes and 1/3 the WEXP needed to reach A axes. He can reasonably reach S axes in chapter 16 or 17 if you have him spam Steel Axe in every chapter. Garcia doesn't reach S axes "fast", but he still reaches it sooner than anyone else( except Duessel) so it's a huge advantage for him.
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I honestly think Gerik should be below Garcia. Let's compare Hero!Garcia with Hero!Gerik: Garcia at level 14/1 and insta-promoted Gerik both have 15 Strength but Garcia has better strength growth so he obviously hits harder later on. Plus, Garcia has access to Garm and when using it, he has more AS so offensively, he is better than Gerik. Gerik doubles more frequently than Garcia until you get Garm, and that's like.. 3 or 5 chapters. Defensively, insta-promoted Gerik has more Defense but fewer HP than 14/1 Garcia so their durability are nearly identical. Not to mention, Garcia also has much much better availability than Gerik.
Gerik's weapon ranks are also meh, he gets D Axes after promotion while Garcia has already reach A or even S.
Oh, and Garcia also has a huge advantage: 14 con. He can be rescued by some promoted mounted units( Franz, Seth, Falcon Knight!Vanessa, etc), which significantly boosts his mobility. Gerik doesn't have that luxury thanks to his huge Con.
Gerik is, in my opinion, really overrated. His availability is meh, his mobility is average and his weapon ranks are inconvenient. He shouldn't be anywhere in A tier.
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18 hours ago, Hawk King said:
Having a promoted Gilliam for Chapter 8 is a huge improvement and makes an immediate impact.
Like what? Seth himself can handle everything without any help from Gilliam. He does one-round the Knights with Steel axe, but Garcia can also do that and he doesn't need any promotional item. I doubt a promoted Gilliam will save any turn in this chapter.
18 hours ago, Hawk King said:On Eirika's route, at that point in the game, a promotion doesn't make much of a difference at all for Kyle and Forde.
Then how does the promotion makes Gilliam better? Don't forget that Kyle and Forde have better mov and their stats are also better than Gilliam's.
18 hours ago, Hawk King said:On Ephraim's route, you get another KC when you get Duessel so promoting Gilliam is clearly the best thing to do.
Agreed. But since you also get Duessel, who is obviously a better Great Knight, promoting Gilliam is really questionable.
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16 hours ago, Sturm said:
- In Chapter 2 he can kill the reinforcements while someone else takes care of the rest of the Bandits.
- In Chapter 3 he can help to break walls and clear the way for Eirka to get to the Throne.
- In Chapter 4 he can kill the reinforcements that spawn near the start or go south towards Lute's Village.
- In Chapters 5, 6 and 7 he doesn't really do anything other than just getting experience which is the same as what Joshua is doing at that point.
- Chapter 8 he starts outperforming Joshua again though due to being able to promote he can carry Eirika to the Throne as well as being able to kill the Knights without much fear.
Chapter 2: you mean the bandits on the mountain? How can he even hit them?
Chapter 4: Agreed.
Chapter 5,6,7: And Joshua is better in those chapters because he has better mov and better offense.
Chapter 8: Why would you even promote him? Gilliam is a good candidate for the KC, yes, but Franz is an even better candidate for that item. I really don't see any reason to promote him instead of Franz.
On 24/9/2017 at 5:37 AM, Hawk King said:If Franz is not in play, Gilliam is easily the best candidate for the KC.
An early-promoted Kyle or Forde doesn't seem that bad tbh.
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4 hours ago, Hawk King said:
Plus his promo item is better used on 2-3 other units. Gilliam gets a horse and can use Javalins and Hand Axes.
I'm pretty sure Franz can make better use of the first KC, not to mention he is also easier to train than Gilliam. You do get another KC but well... Forde, Kyle
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12 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:
That's on Ephraim route, where he comes in at chapter 15. I'm not seeing Saleh get to A staves in any reasonable timeframe when he only has like 6 chapters of playtime left.
Just spam barriers and he will reach A staves by the final chapter, even if he doesn't, he still serves well as a combat unit, I would say he is better than both Lute and Artur.
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2 hours ago, Hawk King said:
Saleh (Ephraim) - LOL no. He should be like top of D- tier at best.
The best endgame warp user is D-tier? Wtf?
2 hours ago, Hawk King said:Thief utility is literally never needed
Again, WTF?
2 hours ago, Hawk King said:Gilliam - Depending on the criteria of the playthrough, he could potentially be above Deussel (Ephraim). Regardless, too low. Should be above Joshua.
I swear Joshua is much much better than Gilliam. Joshua is the best boss killer in your team until at least chapter 9. Gilliam is awful, low mov and meh offense = auto low tier, his durability isn't impressive either, his speed is so bad that he even gets doubled by some occasional bandits on chapter 2.
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20 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:
Most of the stuff he happens to double is either unpromoted, weighed down, or slow to begin with.
Iirc, nearly 70% of the enemies in the game are like that.
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11 hours ago, Sturm said:
All right here's my two cents for what it's worth:
- Vanessa should definitely be above Franz I feel, his combat isn't that much better than hers especially after she promotes, nowhere near enough to mitigate the advantage she has from flight. Also I don't see how Vanessa can't contribute in chapters 3 and 8.
- I agree with Horace about Duessel, he's nowhere near A/B tier. Ephraim!Duessel is good if you give him the Speedwing I guess but there are better alternatives like Cormag most obviously and Eirika!Duessel is going to kill a few things in the desert and probably nothing else, I'd put him around bottom of C/top of D.
Early game is filled with axe users, Franz can use sword to deal good damage to them, Vanessa can't do that because she is lance-locked, the bandits will destroy her, I would be surprised if Franz's combat isn't much better than Vanessa's.
Ephraim!Duessel is definitely B or even A tier. He's just unkillable, his speed is meh but he still manages to double a lot of enemies and if he fails to double anything, he can just use brave weapons so it's not a big problem. He also has awesome weapon rank, which lets him use every weapon in the game( Except the legendary ones)
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How the hell is Garcia worse than Ross? He obviously has better early game than Ross and is actually pretty good Midgame, his speed is low but Garm can fix that problem and he also receives a nice +2 speed from promotion. Ross does gain more Exp but I would rather give those exp to Garcia who doesn't need 10 bonus levels to really contribute to your team.
And Colm is a bit too low. His thief utility automatically makes him better than a lot of people.
Yet another FE8 tier list
in Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
Posted
Garcia at base can ORKO the Revenants while your other units struggle to do the same, and chapter 4 is route so ORKOing enemies is important. Franz can ORKO those revenants as well but Garcia is still a better option as he can take more hits thanks to his high HP. Anyone can kill those revenants but Garcia is better at killing them than anyone else.
He might have a chance of death but he's still a safer option to do this than most.
Chapter 11: The revenants have a lot of HP so they're very hard to kill in one round. Garcia is one of the few units that is capable of ORKOing them.
Chapter 12: Garcia would need help to handle the Dogs. There's no one that could handle them without help anyways. Killing them is no hard task for Seth but he should be doing other things instead.
Chapter 15: Garcia uses axes so he gets WTA, he is also very bulky so he could take lots of hits from those pegs without dying. There's also a Berserker near the start, a trained Garcia should be tanky enough to survive one crit from him and can kill him with killing edge. And no, not everyone can easily kill those pegs, they use javelin so you will need someone that uses 1-2 range weapon to kill them on enemy phase, your sword-locked units will have a lot of trouble here.
Or you could just buy some Recovers. They also heal your units to full health but cost less and have 5 times more uses than Elixir.
And then Eirika gets hit and loses half of her HP, you will still need healing.
Assuming your Artur and Lute have 20 Speed and 20 Luck, they will have 60% avoid, against enemies that have 90% hit, they would face 30% chance of getting hit. Reaching both 20 Speed and 20 Luck, however, is virtually impossible for your Sages unless it's late game, and late-game has a lot of promoted enemies who hit very hard and have higher hitrates than just 90%.
Franz, Kyle, Forde, etc. I maybe wrong if I say the Cavaliers have better combat ability but overall, they're still better.