aku chi

When I say that something is in Boyd's optimal resource bundle, I mean that it is more valuable when given to Boyd than when given to any other unit. So I may have misspoke. It's not particulary clear whether Titania or Boyd (T) make better use of the 1-E Speedwings on any particulat playthrough. But I think it is clear that the cost of Boyd (T) taking the 1-E Speedwings is the opportunity forgone of that Speedwings being used on Titania. Since the 1-E Speedwings might be in Boyd (T)'s optimal bundle and we have all the knowledge we need to evaluate its cost, I see no problem with an argument that considers Boyd's performance with the 1-E Speedwings and accurately accounts for its cost.

If we're talking about Mia vs. Nephenee (T), Nephenee does have a 1-2 range advantage from 3-8 to 3-E. Mia, however, has the 1-2 range advantage in Part 4 thanks to the Tempest Blade. The latter is arguably more valuable, because Mia can 2HKO some foes with the Tempest Edge, whereas Nephenee (T) is bordeline on 3HKOing with a Javelin forge. And while lances have +1 Mt over swords, Mia's fire affinity and superior Str growth make their Atk nearly indistinguishable. Mia also has access to a more valuable effective weapon in the Wyrmslayer. I don't know why Nephenee would be more likely than Mia to receive a forge. And, obviously, Mia can double Swordmasters, has superior crit, and a superior Adept activation. I happen to think this is enough to compensate for Nephenee's superior early performance, but it's a debateable issue, for sure.

That's an odd criticism considering I devoted an entire section to evaluating the cost of the 1-E Speedwings and stated outright: "The 1-E and 2-3 Speedwings are extraordinarilly valuable resources." I don't want to make light of this cost. But Titania's doubling situation without the Speedwings is not hopeless. She has the speed to double most Sages and Generals from the get-go. She can easily have 25 or 26 Spd post-promotion. This, crucially, gives her the ability to double all non-Swordmaster units in 3-8, 3-10, and 3-11. Wings-less Titania's doubling prospects in Part 4 are marginally worse than if she were given the Speedwings. She has a greater likelihood of lacking the Spd needed to double the faster Warriors, Halberdiers, and Snipers. But she's pretty much guaranteed to be able to double Generals even into 4-E-1. So the cost of Boyd taking the Speedwings is a Titania that fails to double Halberdiers, Warriors, and Snipers in 3-2 through 3-7 and may fail to double some of these enemies in Part 4. And allow me to enumerate the resources that I provide Nephenee in my analysis that I do not provide Boyd: The 3-1 Seraph Robe. More Bexp (on the order of 5000). Adept in at least some of the following chapters: {3-3, 3-8, 3-10, 4-1, 4-4, 4-E} All told, I think this just about squares with the cost of Boyd taking the 1-E Speedwings. What are your thoughts? Boyd (T) is very nearly crippled without the 1-E Speedwings. But I don't think it does any justice to consider Boyd (T)'s performance without the Speedwings; it's clearly part of his optimal resource bundle. I would like to see an argument for this. Nephenee (T) has a few advantages over Mia (most importantly, 2-1), but Mia has her own share of advantages over Nephenee (T). Well, I won't deny that Nephenee has the advantage before their shared availability and Boyd doesn't get a noticeable advantage until 3-8, but he finishes strong and continues to better Nephenee from 3-8 all the way to 4-E-5. With Nephenee (N), I assumed that she would get 3 levels in 2-1 and 2-2. Then she was given 2 level of Bexp in 2-E to ensure that she has 24 Spd (needed to double most foes in the first half of Part 3). With Nephenee (T), I assumed that she would get 4 levels in Part 2. She doesn't need any Part 2 Bexp to double in Part 3; an extra Bexp level or two wouldn't much help at this point. It's better for her longterm growth to abstain from Bexp until she caps Skl and Spd.

You know what's sad? Your blessed Saint Laura has just barely reached the threshold where she would not be 2HKO'd by S-Strike Tigers in 3-6.

I was going to say the same thing. You beat me to it! Anyway, to suggest that Nephenee (T) and especially Boyd (T) aren't valuable 3-8, 4-1, 4-4, and 4-E-5 (at the very least) is absurd. Boyd and Nephenee can help a little in 3-4. There's not much reason to drop Boyd (T) in 3-2. Even with a Speedwings, he can't double Istvan. Nephenee (T) can, but I'd much rather attack Istvan with Shinon or somebody who can wield a Wyrmslayer. If we need units to help finish off Istvan, we have Haar, Titania, and Oscar who don't need to be ferried.

No response?

Yes, enemies tend to have 0 AS in the early FE9 chapters (but not C2 Myrmidons, so you were incorrect to state that Boyd could double them). But Boyd needs a Str or Spd proc to double them (unlike Ike and Oscar). And I was describing Boyd's situation throughout the game, not the first two chapters. There are plenty of enemies in C7 with 5-7 AS. Boyd would need to be ~level 9 to double the slowest and ~level 13 to double the fastest of these foes. That's pretty much impossible at this point. With the C2 Speedwings, he can double most of these enemies. Consider C17-1. A sniper, a Halberdier, and some Myrmidons have 14 AS. Boyd would need to be an unrealistic ~20/8 to double these foes without the Speedwings but merely level 20/3 with it. Consider now C25. Cats and Tigers here have 18 AS. Without the Speedwings, Boyd would need to be ~level 20/16 to double them. With it, he can be ~level 20/12. Can Boyd double many (perhaps even most) enemies without a Speedwings? Yes. But I stand by my statement that a Speedwings enables Boyd to double many faster enemies throughout the game that he otherwise would not. Mia can help LTC C10? Mia can reliably kill the Arrive-square Knight in C11? Let's not exaggerate Mia's early contributions. In any event, this rating thread, so far as I can tell, is not focused on LTC clears, so the fact that promoted Mia can shove Ike in C9 and therefore enable a 6-turn clear while recruiting Marcia is probably irrelevant.

Boyd is borderline on doubling faster enemies throughout the game. For this reason, he makes good use of the C2 Speedwings. On the other hand, Boyd's physical durability post-promotion is not a significant issue. It's no worse than the Swordmasters or Falcon Knights, at least.

Boyd (T) > Nephenee (T) Summary of Argument: Nephenee (T) has more valuable contributions before her and Boyd's shared availability. However, if given a Speedwings in 3-2, Boyd (T) is solidly superior to Nephenee (T) during the majority of their shared availability: 14 chapters. (The (T)'s will be omitted in the remainder of the argument; they are implicit.) Early Contributions (2-1, 2-2, 2-E, 3-P, 3-1): Nephenee can make substantial contributions in 2-1 with transfers. Thanks to extra Str and Spd, Nephenee can double every single enemy with the Steel Greatlance at base. Nephenee can ORKO every enemy except the Bandits and Armored Knights (whom she 3HKOs). Nephenee even 4HKOs Yeardley. Unfortunately, Nephenee does have poor durability, so Brom will need to tank the bulk of the attacks while Nephenee delivers the bulk of the damage. Still, Nephenee has claim to be the best unit in this small chapter. Nephenee is useful, but not exceptionally so in 2-2. Nephenee can usually double every enemy except Maraj and the Rogue here. She can ORKO about half of the map (the unpromoted, non-Armor units). Nephenee can even 2RKO the toughest Generals. Still, Nephenee suffers from poor durability and so cannot take on large numbers of enemies on enemy phase (she's generally 3-4HKO'd and lacks Lucia's avoid). Nephenee cannot aid the clear in 2-E. Boyd's earlygame isn't as impressive. Boyd's offense is almost identical to Titania's in 3-P and 3-1. At base, he has 1 less Atk and 1 less Spd (which only affects whether he can double a few Sages). Boyd's durability isn't far off Titania's either (+14 HP, -5 Def, -6 Res). Of course, Boyd has inferior movement, which certainly limits his contributions in 3-P (where he can combine for some kills - every unit helps here). Boyd is more helpful is the challenging rout of 3-1. Boyd can double a handful of Generals against whom he deals great damage (generally 3HKOing with a Steel Poleaxe or 4HKOing with the Steel Axe). Against non-Generals, Boyd fails to double but can 2HKO Sages, Swordmasters, Warriors, and Snipers with the Steel Axe and Halberdiers with the Steel Poleaxe. Boyd is one of the more useful units in 3-1, but he's in exceptional company. Thoughts on the 1-E Speedwings and Resource Cost: The 1-E and 2-3 Speedwings are extraordinarilly valuable resources. Many units on the Greil Mercenaries have Spd such that a Speedwings will transform their offense from doubling very few enemies to doubling the vast majority of enemies. I am thinking of Haar, Titania, Gatrie, Oscar, and Boyd (T). These units benefit a great deal from the 1-E and 2-3 Speedwings. Of these units, we will tend to favor those who possess high Atk, high durability, good mobility, and circumstances that favor Speedwings's particular boost. I consider the criteria in turn. Oscar has less Atk than the other four (who are approximately equivalent). Haar and Gatrie have the best durability, Oscar has the worst. Haar has the best mobility, followed by Titania and Oscar, then Boyd, then Gatrie. I consider these units' unique circumstances in the next five paragraphs. Haar has a tier 2 Spd cap of 24. If given the Speedwings, he is likely to cap ram before promotion. This is a negative, because 25 Spd is needed to double many units in the latter chapters of Part 3. Therefore, Haar needs an early Master Crown to continue doubling. Haar also has a poor 0.3 Spd growth, which makes it unlikely that he will continue to double most units throughout Part 4. Titania has a tier 2 Spd cap of 25, and only 5 levels to grow until tier 3. Titania has a solid 0.5 Spd growth, which makes it easy for her to keep doubling throughout Part 4. Titania's tier 3 Spd cap is just shy of 34, which is a little unfortunate. There is a flipside to Titania's solid Spd growth; she might not need a Speedwings to double. Titania, indeed, averages 25 Spd at 20/1, although she might not reach tier 3 naturally until around 3-8. Bexp-slowplay can enhance Titania's Spd in tier 2. Spd is her fourth-highest growth. She is 1 point away from capping Str, 3 points away from capping Skl (1 with a Secret Book), and 2 points aways from capping HP with a Seraph Robe. Gatrie has an attrocious Spd cap of 23 in tier 2. Coupled with his high Spd growth of 0.6, Gatrie can cap Spd with ease by 3-7. Gatrie therefore requires an early promotion to double most units. If Gatrie is to use the 3-6 Master Crown, there is little incentive to give Gatrie a Speedwings; he is going to cap Spd either way and won't double reliably until promotion. There is only a small incentive to give Gatrie the Speedwings if he is to receive the 3-3 Master Crown. Gatrie can likely reach 22 Spd before 3-4 - producing 24 Spd post-promotion. We would prefer Gatrie to have 25 Spd, the advantage bestowed by a Speedwings in this case is rather small. Oscar shares Haar's poor Spd cap of 24 and similar predicament of needing an early promotion to double most enemies in the latter half of Part 3. Oscar, however, has a high Spd growth of 0.6. On the upside (of his candidacy for a Speedwings), this allows him to continue doubling in Part 4. On the downside, Oscar is, like Gatrie, likely to cap Spd by 3-7. Ignoring the dubious possibility of Oscar using the 3-3 Master Crown, the Speedwings only helps Oscar double more enemies in 3-2 through 3-7. Boyd has a monstrous tier 2 Spd cap of 27, which is more than sufficient for Part 3. Boyd has a solid Spd growth of 0.45 and is the lowest level of the bunch. Boyd will be capable of doubling most units throughout Part 4 and, uniquely among these Speedwing candidates, has the potential to reach 34 AS to double Dheginsea and Ashera's Auras (with Nasir). Boyd's prospects of doubling without the Speedwings are slim without an early promotion - which stunts his fantastic growth potential. I hope you have followed my reasoning that Gatrie and Oscar are the weakest of these Speedwing candidates. Gatrie has excellent Str and Def, but his Spd cap makes him a frustrating Speedwings candidate. The Speedwings cannot enable a tier 2 Gatrie to double most units in Part 3 (24 AS is needed for that) and, if early-promoted, Gatrie does not need the Speedwings to double. Oscar has comparitively poor Str and durability. He also tends to cap Spd at tier 2 before even an early promotion. Haar is probably the strongest Speedwings candidate. He has great Str, durability, and movement. He has pretty much no chance of reaching the Spd to double most enemies without the Speedwings. Haar even has an extra chapter (2-E) where he can put the 2-3 Speedwings to good use! That leaves Titania and Boyd as the best candidates for the 1-E Speedwings. Which is better? Tough to say. Titania is certainly the better unit: she has similar Atk and durability to Boyd but superior movement. However, Boyd might very well be a better Speedwings candidate because Titania has an easier time doubling without the Speedwings and Boyd has a higher Spd ceiling. It is certainly a close contest. And so by long digression, I've reached my conclusion of interest. Boyd (T) is a realistic candidate for the 1-E Speedwings. His cost for taking the Speedwings is the opportunity forgone of Titania using the 1-E Speedwings. To square our resource cost argument, we need to discuss the other resources Boyd and Nephenee might use. I will assume that both use the 3-11 (or 3-12) Master Crown. (Of the two, though, Boyd has a much better chance of being able to promote naturally before Part 4.) Both will receive Paragon during their training in Part 4. Nephenee will be Bexp-slowplayed for 5 levels and given a full Bexp level-up. Boyd will receive Bexp-slowplay treatment for 2 levels. Nephenee will receive the 3-1 (or Rafiel's) Seraph Robe (this will help improve her durability and get a little more Str and Def out of her Bexp level-ups). I will also be considering how Nephenee's offense could be improved by Adept. She may be considered an Adept candidate in chapters where she uses it particularly well. All told, both will take total resources of similar value. (As an aside, Boyd (T) is an unfortunate victim of this tier list's assumptions concerning transfer units. This tier list forces us to assume that Boyd (T) is the only transfer unit in play. If, however, Titania also received transfer bonuses, the opportunity cost of the 1-E Speedwings for Boyd would plummet. If Oscar also receives transfers, the next best recipient of the 1-E Speedwings might be Nolan, or a late-joiner like Tanith or Skrimir!) Early Part 3 (3-2, 3-3, 3-4, 3-5, 3-7) Nephenee and Boyd share availability from 3-2 and beyond. Let's see how these two units compare in 3-2. Nephenee, I will assume, gains 4 levels in Part 2. Boyd, I will assume, gains 2 levels in 3-P and 3-1. Both of these estimates may be a little generous, but feel free to assume either a little Bexp boost or a comparison in 3-3. Boyd has just received the 1-E Speedwings and Nephenee has just received the 3-1 Seraph Robe. Level 5 Nephenee - 40.8 HP, 24.6 Spd, 16.4 Def, 15.8 Res w Steel Lance forge - 33.4 Atk w Short Spear - 28.4 Atk, 116 Hit Level 10 Boyd - 51.6 HP, 22.9 Spd, 16 Def, 8.2 Res w Steel Axe forge - 41.3 Atk w Short Axe - 37.3 Atk, 120 Hit Let me first point out that Boyd and Nephenee are unlikely to contibute notably towards clearing chapters 3-2, 3-4, 3-5, or 3-7. 3-2 is a race to the boss that foot units lose. 3-4 is another race. 3-5 can be quickly ended with Reyson and our mounted units. 3-7 is pure self-improvement. So 3-3 is the only chapter where Nephenee and Boyd are likely to be helpful. Here, they can help kill enemies with above-average offense. When the mounted units head towards the further tents, Nephenee and Boyd can help burn the closer tents. Nephenee, happily, doubles everything except Swordmasters and some bosses. Starting in 3-4, a couple Warriors might have 21 AS, but Nephenee should have no trouble reaching 25 Spd by then. Boyd isn't quite so fortunate. He can double all Bishops, Sages, Generals, Dragonmasters, and Paladins. By a happy coincidence, this includes every enemy in 3-2 (except Istvan). In 3-3, however, there are several Halberdiers and a couple Snipers with 20 AS that Boyd is unlikely to double. 3-4 introduces Warriors with 20 and 21 AS. 3-5 Warriors and Halberdiers (there are only a few) all have 21 AS. Boyd might reach 24 Spd by 3-4, but is unlikely to reach 25 Spd until 3-7 or 3-8. So in early Part 3, Boyd will likely fail to double most Warriors, Halberdiers, and Snipers. Against Sages, Nephenee solidly 2HKOs Sages at 1-range, but tends to come up just short with the Short Spear. Boyd 2HKOs at 1-2 range with ease. He can even OHKO some Bishops at 1-range! Against Generals, Nephenee 4-5HKOs. Boyd solidly 3HKOs with the Steel Axe forge and can OHKO many with the Hammer. Against Dragonmasters, Nephenee 3-4HKOs while Boyd 2HKOs. Against Paladins, Halberdiers, Sniper, and Warriors, Nephenee 3HKOs and Boyd 2HKOs. Boyd can also 2HKO all but the toughest Halberdiers with the Short Axe. Nephenee can 2HKO Paladins with the Horseslayer. Nephenee generally 2HKOs Swordmasters; Boyd does so at 1-2 range with ease. Nephenee is a decent candidate for Adept in 3-3, to turn her many 3HKOs into a ~44% chance to ORKO. With respect to physical durability, Nephenee is almost always 3HKO'd, but occasionally 4HKO'd. Boyd is occasionally 3HKO'd, but is almost always 4HKO'd. Against mages, Nephenee is generally 4HKO'd while Boyd is 3-4HKO'd. Swordmasters don't come close to doubling Boyd. Both have nearly identical Avo and Lck. Despite Nephenee's doubling advantage against Halberdiers, Warriors, and Snipers, both Nephenee and Boyd 2RKO. Both can do so at 1-2 range. With Adept, Nephenee has a moderate chance to ORKO these foes at 1-range, which is nice. On the other hand, Boyd has a physical durability advantage, is better against Dragonmasters (and Paladins if Nephenee doesn't use a Horseslayer), and dominates against Generals. Late Part 3 (3-8, 3-10, 3-11, 3-E) Let's suppose that Nephenee is part way towards level 11 after 3-7. At this point, she is likely to have capped Skl, Spd, and Res. We'll finish off her level with Bexp and Bexp-slowplay her from here on. She will cap HP at level 12. Boyd, we'll assume, gains 5 total levels in the preceding 5 chapters. He caps HP, but we won't Bexp-slowplay until he reaches level 17 (likely capping Str and/or Skl). When bestowing Bexp level-ups, I'll be using a heuristic that cubes and normalizes growths. For Nephenee, her Bexp slowplay growths will be: {1.0 HP, 0.56 Str, 0.04 Mag, 0.84 Lck, 0.56 Def} before capping HP. Afterwards, she's basically guaranteed to get Str, Lck, and Def. Boyd's Bexp slowplay level-ups will tend to grant Spd, Lck, and Def (and Res after Spd caps). Level 11 Nephenee - 44 HP, 27 Spd, 18.7 Def, 18 Res w Steel Lance forge - 35.7 Atk w Javelin forge - 32.7 Atk Level 15 Boyd - 53 HP, 25.15 Spd, 18.5 Def, 8.7 Res w Steel Axe forge - 44.55 Atk w Hand Axe forge - 42.55 Atk Boyd might have an A support by 3-8. Ike or Shinon are Boyd's best (and most likely, since they benefit) support partners. Boyd gets +2 Atk from an A support. An A Ike will grant Boyd +23 Avo. An A Shinon will grant Boyd +2 Def, +2 Res, and +8 Avo. Nephenee has a harder time finding support partners due to her poor affinity and later join time, but she might start 3-8 with a B support with Shinon, Boyd, or Mordecai and reach A around 3-11. B Boyd grants +1 Atk, B Shinon grants +1 Def, +1 Res, and B Mordecai grants both. Nephenee also gets +5 Avo from her Wind and a potential +5 Avo on top from Shinon. Boyd and Nephenee can make substantial contributions to the routs in chapters 3-8 and 3-10. 3-8 is notable for reducing Haar, Titania, and Oscar's movement by 2, putting them on nearly equal footing. There are branching paths and plenty of foes to fell in 3-8. In 3-10, Boyd and Nephenee will be unable to keep up with the northern party, but they can contribute by helping rout the enemies in the south. Considering that there are at least six flying units available in 3-11, Boyd and Nephenee are likely to be left behind in this race to the seize square (though an untrained Marcia may have nothing better to do than ferry a foot unit). Still, Boyd and Nephenee can contribute a little towards clearing a path for the fliers. Boyd and Nephenee are even less useful in 3-E, where 9-mov units can nab most of the combat. Nephenee doubles all remaining Part 3 units except Swordmasters, Sergei, Goran, and some DBs in 3-E. Boyd generally doubles all of the units Nephenee does, but might not reach the 26 Spd needed to double the fastest Halberdiers and Warriors in 3-10 and 3-11. Nephenee and Boyd can both 2HKO Bishops, Sages and Druids at 1-2 range with ease. Nephenee can 2HKO Swordmasters at 1-range. Boyd can do so at 1-2 range. Nephenee is borderline on 3HKOing Paladins, Snipers, Warriors, and Halberdiers with a Javelin forge. She can 3HKO handily with a Steel Lance forge. Nephenee can, of course, 2HKO Paladins with the Horseslayer. Boyd can 2HKO all of these foes with a Hand Axe forge! Nephenee is borderline on 3HKOing Dragonmasters at 1-range and 4HKOing them at 1-2 range. Boyd can 2HKO Dragonmasters at 1-range and just might be able to do the same at 1-2 range. Nephenee is borderline on 4HKOing Generals at 1-range. Boyd can handily 3HKO Generals with a Hand Axe forge, and 2HKO with the Hammer. Nephenee is a solid Adept candidate in 3-8 and 3-10. Adept provides her with a ~47% chance to ORKO enemies she 3HKOs. Nephenee is generally 3-5HKO'd by physical enemies. Boyd is generally 3-6HKO'd by physical enemies. Sages can still 3HKO Boyd, while they 5HKO Nephenee (those couple Druids in 3-8 3HKO). Both have nearly identical Avo and Lck. Boyd has clear combat advantages over Nephenee. He ORKOs (often at 1-2 range) with certainty many enemies that Nephenee can only ORKO with Adept (if that). Boyd has slightly better physical durability while Nephenee has moderately better magical durability. Part 4 (4-1, 4-4) Nephenee was Bexp-slowplayed for 4 additional levels and given another full Bexp level-up to cap Str. Boyd leveled up 4 times, the last 2 via Bexp (which allows him to cap Spd). Level 16/1 Nephenee - 49 HP, 29 Spd, 26.27 Def, 22 Res w Steel Lance forge - 43 Atk w Silver Lance forge - 46 Atk w Javelin forge - 40 Atk Level 19/1 Boyd - 57 HP, 29 Spd, 23.5 Def, 14 Res w Steel Axe forge - 48 Atk w Silver Axe forge - 51 Atk w Hand Axe forge - 46 Atk Both are presumed to go with the Greil Army - home of the best foot units. Boyd and Nephenee are likely to keep their support partners. Both 4-1 and 4-4 are rout chapters where Boyd and Nephenee can make substantial contributions. In 4-1 enemies are densly packed, such that movement is less valuable than usual. In 4-4, Paladins are unable to climb ledges and most fliers and laguz will be in the Silver Army, which make foot units valuable. Boyd and Nephenee can double all units in 4-1 except Swordmasters and some Falcon Knights. Nephenee has a higher likelihood than Boyd to develop the 30 Spd to double the remaining Falcon Knights part-way through 4-1. Enemies in 4-4 have high AS. 30 Spd (which neither Boyd nor Nephenee should have any difficulty reaching) can double all of the Bishops, Sages, Generals, most of the Halberdiers and Snipers, and some of the Warriors. 31 Spd (likely for Nephenee, borderline for Boyd) can double the remainder of the Halberdiers and Snipers along with most of the Warriors. 32 Spd (borderline for Nephenee, unlikely for Boyd) doubles the fastest Warriors. The Swordmasters, of course, remain out of reach. Nephenee and Boyd can 2HKO Bishops, Sages, and Falcon Knights at 1-2 range with ease. Boyd can OHKO Falcon Knights with a crossbow. Nephenee is borderline on 2HKOing Swordmasters at 1-2 range. Boyd can do so with ease. Nephenee can likely 2HKO Snipers and some Warriors at 1-range. She likely will need a +Atk support to have a chance to 2HKO Halberdiers and the remaining Warriors. Nephenee can likely 3HKO all Snipers, Warriors, and Halberdiers with a Javelin forge. Boyd can 2HKO all Snipers, Warriors, and Halberdiers with a Hand Axe forge. Nephenee can 3HKO some of the weakest Generals, but 4HKOs most at 1-range. She can 4HKO some Generals at 1-2 range. Boyd is borderline on 3HKOing Generals with a Hand Axe forge, 3HKOs with ease with a Steel Axe forge, and cleanly 2HKOs with the Hammer. Nephenee is a pretty good Adept candidate - especially if you want her to rely on Javelin forges against Snipers, Warriors, and Halberdiers. With Adept, Impale, and a smidgen of Crit, Nephenee has a ~65-70% chance to ORKO when she 3HKOs. Without Adept, Nephenee has a ~28-33% chance to do the same. Physical enemies will generally 4-6HKO Nephenee and Boyd alike. Magic enemies tend to 4-5HKO Nephenee and 3-4HKO Boyd. Depending on their supports, Boyd and Nephenee might develop decent evasion. Nephenee now has slightly higher Lck, and so faces a slightly lower Crit threat from Thunder magic and Swordmasters. Boyd retains notable combat leads, especially at 1-2 range, but Nephenee has enough Atk to 2HKO a solid chunk of enemies at 1-range and has an easier developing the Spd to double the faster enemies. 4-E Assuming that Boyd and Nephenee used Paragon in 4-1 and 4-4, I figure they may be as high as level 9 entering 4-E-1. Level 16/9 Nephenee - 52.6 HP, 34 Spd, 29.07 Def, 25.6 Res w Silver Lance forge - 48.8 Atk w Javelin forge - 42.8 Atk w Wishblade - 52.8 Atk Level 19/9 Boyd - 63.4 HP, 32.6 Spd, 27.5 Def, 14.8 Res w Silver Axe forge - 56.2 Atk w Urvan - 59.2 Atk w Hand Axe forge - 51.2 Atk Nephenee and Boyd can double all enemies in 4-E-1. Nephenee can likely 2HKO all of the Sages and Bishops at 1-2 range (the same cannot be said of the Snipers). Nephenee can 3HKO the bulk of the non-Cover tile Generals with a Silver Lance forge. With Adept and Impale she has a ~70% chance to ORKO when she 3HKOs. Nephenee deals poor damage against the Cover Generals and may not even 5HKO. Boyd can 2HKO Sages, Bishops, and Snipers at 1-2 range. He can 2HKO most non-Cover Generals with a Silver Axe forge and all with Urvan. He can 2HKO Cover Generals with the Hammer. In 4-E-3, Nephenee can deal ~18-20 damage to Dheginsea with Ena and the Wishblade. Boyd is borderline on being able to double Dheginsea. With Ena and Urvan, he can deal ~18 damage per hit. In 4-E-4, Nephenee and Boyd can kill Spirits with similar competence. In 4-E-5, Nephenee and Boyd (who is likely to have 34 Spd) can double Auras with Nasir. With a blessed Brave Axe, Boyd has the impressive potential to ORKO a Wardwood Aura with only one Red Dragon. Boyd needs only 37 Str or 35 Str with any A-support for this feat. Nephenee might be able to ORKO a Wardwood Aura with both Red Dragons, a blessed Brave Lance, and 33 Str (or 31 Str and a +Atk A-support). Conclusion Nephenee's contributions in Part 2 (mostly 2-1) are clearly more valuable than Boyd's contributions in 3-P and 3-1. Boyd and Nephenee are similarly (not very) valuable in the early and middle Part 3 chapters. But Boyd develops solid combat leads over Nephenee starting in 3-8 that he never reliquishes. Boyd's leads outweigh Nephenee's: Boyd (T) > Nephenee (T). I propose that Boyd (T) move up. Mia, Boyd (T), and Nephenee (T) are, I judge, of very similar value. It is fitting that they should be in the same tier.

Corrections: Mounted units have 8 mov at tier 1 in Tellius. Mounted units simply cannot be rescued. Oscar, when promoted, is one of the few units that actually can rescue an untransformed Mordecai, which is occasionally useful.

I wouldn't dispute: Oscar Marcia (T) Nephenee Mordecai Ranulf ... at least in the near term. I'm planning another argument to post once this one is resolved.

Taking Nephenee from level 13 to level 17 with Bexp costs 14,600 Bexp. This is more than half of the maximum 28,675 Bexp we can get from all of the Greil Mercenary chapters up to this point. That is very much! Better uses of the GM Bexp than giving it to Nephenee: Bexp-slowplay Spd for Haar. Bexp-slowplay Spd for Titania. Bexp-slowplay Spd for Ike. Bexp-Blossom-slowplay Janaff. Bexp-Blossom-slowplay Ulki. Bexp-slowplay Str and Def for Mia. Bexp-slowplay Str for Shinon. Bexp-slowplay Str for Oscar (arguable). Maybe I Bexp-slowplay more than most, but I rarely have the Bexp to spare on HM for full level-ups until 4-E.

It's rather irksome when people critique my proposal without reading my argument. All of the following were explained in my original post: Marcia is stipulated to get 3 levels through Cexp and 2 through Bexp to reach level 10 by 3-9. Nephenee is given the same amount of Bexp to get her to 24 Spd before Part 3. Nephenee is Bexp-slowplayed after she reaches level 11. Still, Nephenee (N) fails to exhibit any noticable Spd or Str lead on Marcia (T) in Part 4. I've made every effort to train Nephenee as intelligently as possible for this comparison. Marcia still comes out better. There's no (efficient) reason to take more than 4 turns. 4 turns is enough to get the Energy Drop, Dracoshield, and Nullify. I think 1, 2, and 3-turn clears that forfeit some of these valuables should also be considered. Still, the number of turns we spend in 2-E is not critical to this comparison. Both Nephenee and Marcia benefit from extra turns of combat. While Marcia can make additional contributions if we want to get some of these valuables, I don't think those contributions are necessary to show Marcia (T) > Nephenee (N).

Personally, I don't think that's the best use of that Bexp. But go ahead and perform another comparison where Nephenee and Marcia gain ~2 more Bexp levels in 2-E if you want; I don't think it will change much. The 2 levels of Bexp I gave Nephenee ensures that she doubles all non-Swordmaster enemies in Part 3. Additional Bexp level-ups just get her a little closer to capping Spd and Skl. And all of this Bexp still won't obviate the need for a Master Crown unless we also plan to give Nephenee an additional 3-4 levels of Bexp before Part 4. And that's a whole lot of resources to spend on a unit that is merely decent in Part 4.

If ever I said that, I have long since recanted. Baloney. The Dawn Brigade has four chapters (1-E, 3-6, 3-12, and 3-13) to use Paragon. 3-6 and 3-12 have tons of enemies that need to be killed; maps like these don't exist with the Greil Mercenaries. Jill (N) is pretty much impossible to raise without Paragon. Except Nephenee is likely going to be left behind in 3-11 while the fliers (like Marcia) complete the chapter. The goal is to complete the game, not to funnel kills into Nephenee so that she can be slightly better than mediocre in Part 4. I guess you didn't read my post... In my argument, Nephenee and Marcia both received 2 levels of Bexp before 2-E. This put Marcia at level 10 entering 3-9. We use the 3-9 Master Crown on her because it helps us complete the chapter at least as efficiently as if we gave it to Geoffrey. But this way, the Master Crown is used on a unit we're training, instead of wasted on Geoffrey. Giving Marcia (T) the 3-9 Master Crown seems SOP for LTC aficionados. Or you used a mediocre low-level unit like Nephenee, Soren, or Rolf and didn't slow down for them. (In my experience, Mia is level 18-20 come Part 4 - and I sometimes Bexp her to tier 3 if I don't have a Master Crown to spare. But Mia has a modest level lead on Nephenee in 3-2 and has an easier time getting experience due to superior offense.)

Bingo. Drop Heather. Attack Ludveck. Have Leanne vigor Heather and our Ludveck-slayer. Heather steals the Dracoshield and your Ludveck-slayer ends the chapter. Not all turns are created equal. "Saving" a turn on a small map like 1-P or 2-1 is less valuable than saving a turn on a larger map. Using Nephenee allows one to complete 2-1 quicker and with a little more ease, but it's a contribution more akin to Micaiah in 1-P (the similarities go pretty far, now that I think on it). I would think that anyone making a claim has a burden of proof. Your claim that every unit is needed in 2-2 is similarly absent of proof. I gave Nephenee a level of 6 entering 3-2 and a generous one level per chapter on average throughout Part 3. Nephenee cannot ORKO any unit except Sages and has only passable durability and unspectacular movement. Some of Nephenee's Part 3 chapters are lengthy (especially 3-7), but others are very short (3-2 and 3-5 especially). There's no need to take more than 4 turns in 2-E. Nephenee, by my reckoning, will enter 3-2 approaching level 7. I took Bexp-slowplay into account. Nephenee naturally promoting before Part 4 in efficient play is what is ridiculous. Paragon is only available to Nephenee in 3-11 and 3-E. Marcia can use Paragon in 3-9, but I'm assuming that she's already tier 3 at this point, so exp growth is still slow. In my experience: Mia falls short of naturally promoting before 4-P. Mia, who is likely 3 levels higher than Nephenee in 3-2 and has better offense. I'd like to appeal to other forum denizens who have played Radiant Dawn HM efficiently: are my level estimates for Nephenee and Marcia entering Part 4 reasonable? Make a case. I won't hide that I find Nephenee(N)'s Part 3 and 4 performance to be mediocre. Reasonable people can disagree on the comparative value of their Part 2 performances.

I don't think it's "silly" at all. Marcia is more helpful in the Silver Army than Nephenee. But even if both go to the Greil Army, Marcia is slightly better. Canto makes it much easier for Marcia to get vigored and to retreat to a safe position each turn. Marcia has +2 mov in 4-1. Marcia can change elevations in 4-4 without penalty. Nephenee has better durability, but it's not the kind of durability where one can expose her to 5+ enemies on enemy phase. Moreover, we wouldn't want to, because Nephenee doesn't ORKO anything unless she activates skills. Marcia is solidly better in Part 4.

The things I mentioned are all contributions Marcia can make that Nephenee cannot. They are not essential actions only performable by Marcia. FYI: the Marcia I stipulate in 2-E can deal 22/36 damage to the Nullify General and 30/38 damage to the Energy Drop Armor Knight with the Steel Greatlance. Marcia can attack and canto to safety. Nephenee can't even reach these enemies. This Marcia can even deal 14 damage to Ludveck, if needed. Of course. But somebody has to drop Heather near the Dracoshield General. Elincia can do it, Haar can do it, Marcia can do it. Nephenee cannot do it. How so? Brom is much more important to the clear than Nephenee. Nephenee can't double because she's weighed down by her weapon. Brom has +6 Def and +4 HP over Nephenee. Only Brom can tank Yeardley's attacks. I suspect Nephenee isn't required for the fastest clears of 2-2. She is the worst combat unit in the chapter (except Heather). Marcia (T) is also best suited to killing the Speedwings Halberdier (she's very likely to have the 23 AS needed to double him). Read my post. Marcia (T) has no need to "catch up" with Nephenee (N) in Part 4. They have nearly identical Spd and Atk. Nephenee has a small durability advantage. Marcia has a huge mobility advantage and a small weapon selection advantage. Marcia (T) blows out Nephenee (N) in Part 4. Nephenee (N) is never great. She struggles to 3HKO non-Sages at 1-range throughout her entire existence. She is a mediocre combat unit (like Boyd (N)) on a team filled with good->excellent combat units. It's long past time she drops to a more suitable tier position.

I'm not super-familiar with efficient clears of 2-E, but I believe Marcia (T) can contribute in some of the following ways: Deliver to Haar the 2-3 Speedwings that he needs to double Ludveck. Help kill the Energy Drop Armored Knight. Help rescue-drop Heather to steal the Dracoshield. Help kill the Nullify General. None of which Nephenee can do. I submit that Marcia's potential contributions in 2-E are greater than Nephenee's potential contributions in 2-2. Nephenee is as unimportant in 2-E as Marcia in 2-P. Marcia (T)'s 2-3 contributions are at least of similar value to Nephenee (N)'s 2-1 contributions. Do you disagree with this assessment? Very well. I would like to note that Shinon gets nothing out of a support with Nephenee (all he really needs is Atk). But Nephenee can gain some needed durability from a Shinon support. I don't think that Nephenee's small durability and smaller Atk advantage can compensate for Marcia's +2 mov, canto, and flight in Part 4 - do you?

Nullify is an option. I agree that Marcia's concrete durability isn't great, but canto allows one a great degree of control over how many enemies she is exposed to on enemy phase. Tanith or Sigrun, most likely. Unfortunately, a C rank support is all that can be expected before 4-E. A B-rank Haar support might be possible in 4-3, but the support isn't as good. I didn't mean to equate the two. 2-1 is Nephenee's best contribution in Part 2. Nephenee isn't particularly useful in 2-2 or 2-E. Marcia, on the other hand, is useful in 2-P, 2-3, and 2-E. On net, I think Marcia is more useful in Part 2. Who are you thinking might support Nephenee? Titania and Oscar don't share Nephenee's movement and probably want to support one another. Haar is rarely going to be in the same location as Nephenee, has a poor support type, and is likely to go with the Silver Army. Ike will likely be supporting Mia or Boyd. Shinon will probably support the other (he really doesn't care for a Wind support). Ranulf has a poor support type and is locked to the Hawk Army. The Hawks would prefer to support one another. Rolf, Lethe, Lyre, Kyza, and Brom are unlikely to be deployed. Heather won't be deployed reliably enough to support Nephenee. Gatrie, Soren, Rhys, or Mist might be open to a Nephenee support, but only Mist shares Nephenee's movement and only Gatrie is frontline material. I suppose Mordecai might tolerate a Nephenee support, but it isn't trivial to keep them within support range.

Earth + Dark is also +30 avoid And +2 Atk is much more valuable than +8 Hit

Boyd (T) or Mia (N/T) or Soren (T) All three benefit from the extra avoid Ike's earth support provides. Ike is generally durable enough with his own earth avoid boost, and extra Atk lets him secure more 2HKOs. Boyd and Mia share Ike's movement and have a similar role on the battlefield. Soren has the better affinity, but has a 1 mov deficit and can't be exposed to as much on enemy phase. However, an early-crowned Soren (T) can be durable enough in 3-8 and 3-10 - especially with his A Ike support.

Nephenee (N) < Marcia (T) seems an easy case to make. (I'll drop the (N) and (T) from here on out - know that they are implicit.) Marcia is useful in 2-P (one of only 3 combat units, and arguably more valuable than Nealuchi - Haar is great but joins late) and 2-3 (perfect unit to take out the Horseslayer Halberdier). Nephenee is useful in 2-1 (one of only two combat units) but not so great in 2-2. They both have an opportunity to gain 3 levels in their first two chapters before they meet for the first time in 2-E. Nephenee has an opportunity to utilize the CRK Bexp pool - and really needs to to be viable in Part 3 and beyond. We want Nephenee to have 24 AS in 3-3, and she's likely to get it with 2 Bexp level-ups. Marcia wants to reach level 10 by 3-9 so that she can be crowned, so we'll give her the same amount of Bexp: Nephenee - Level 6 (2 w Bexp) - 34 HP, 16 Str, 23 Skl, 24 Spd, 16 Def, 16 Res Marcia - Level 10 (2 w Bexp) - 38 HP, 19 Str, 20 Skl, 26 Spd, 17 Def, 16 Res Aside from Marcia's +3 Str and +2 Spd lead, they're pretty similar. Oh, and Marcia has +2 mov, canto, and flies - which enables her to help us retrieve Nullify, the Energy Drop, or the Dracoshield, unlike Nephenee. So Marcia has the edge in Part 2. But now we come to the most difficult part of the comparison. Nephenee joins the Greil Mercenaries and is mediocre for seven chapters (3-2, 3-3, 3-4, 3-5, 3-7, 3-8, and 3-10). Marcia has only one chapter 3-9, where she can be the most valuable unit. Nephenee, thanks to our Bexp, can consistently double most Warriors, Halberdiers, and Snipers along with all Generals, Sages, Paladins, and Dracomasters. However, her Str is abysmal such that even with a Steel Lance forge she fails to 3HKO most Warriors, Halberdiers, and Snipers. Nephenee can ORKO Sages at 1-range, but needs to wait until 3-8 and a Javelin forge for the ability to ORKO them at 1-2 range. In addition to Nephenee's mediocre combat, her mediocre movement prevents her from making notable contributions in 3-2, 3-4, and 3-5. Nephenee can help torch some tents in 3-3 (like Boyd or Soren). 3-7 is self-improvement. Nephenee can contribute only a small amount to the routs in 3-8 and 3-10. On the other hand, Marcia only has one chapter: 3-9. But if we give her the 3-9 Master Crown, she will be the most valuable unit on the map. Her flight allows her to take the northern rout, which is shorter and less dense with enemies. She can double and deal good damage to all of the enemies. Her durability is above average and quite serviceable when coupled with her ability to canto out of the range of dangerous foes. Note that I'm not relying on a 23 Str Marcia for this argument. It's not necessary to show that Marcia (T) > Nephenee (N) and I would prefer to withhold judgement on whether its efficient to give Marcia all of our Part 2 Bexp in the hopes that she procs a low-growth stat. I don't pretend to be able to make a clear judgement on whether Nephenee's mediocre seven chapters is more valuable than Marcia's great one chapter. I'll err on the side of Nephenee for this argument and suppose that Nephenee's contributions in their unique Part 3 chapters is slightly greater. Marcia and Nephenee share 3-11 and 3-E. I don't want to delve into too much detail, but I think it's clear to see that Marcia has a notable advantage in 3-11 due to her superior movement and early promotion. Marcia's advantages are less important in 3-E, but they exist. To summarize, at this point Marcia has a slight Part 2 advantage, Nephenee has a slight Part 3 advantage in their unshared availability, and Marcia has an advantage in their shared Part 3 availability. Let me set the stage for Part 4. Marcia's status is easy. We crowned her at level 10 and she gained 2 levels in 3-9, 3-11, and 3-E. Nephenee, I'll generously assume, gains an average of 1 level per chapter in Part 3. She starts in 3-2 at level 6, so she can reach level 15 after 3-E. However, Nephenee is likely to cap Skl, Spd, and Res by level 11 - or after 3-7. So we will Bexp-slowplay her last four levels - boosting her HP, Str, Lck, and Def. The we'll use the 3-11 (or 3-12) Master Crown on Nephenee. This Master Crown is slightly less valuable than the 3-9 Master Crown that Marcia received, but with Nephenee's Bexp-slowplay we'll call it even. Here's where they stand entering Part 4: Nephenee - Level 15/1 - 43.25 HP, 23.75 Str, 28 Skl, 29 Spd, 23.75 Def, 22 Res Marcia - Level 10/3 - 43.4 HP, 22.6 Str, 22.8 Skl, 29.3 Spd, 20.7 Def, 20.7 Res Nephenee has a small durability advantage and a tiny Str advantage. Their growths are nearly identical (identical Spd and Def, Nephenee has +0.05 Str). Nephenee has had more time to build up a support (but Wind affinity blows). Marcia has +2 mov, canto, and flight. Marcia is a most helpful with the Silver Army. In 4-P, she can ORKO Paladins with the Horseslayer. In 4-3, Marcia is unlikely to 2HKO most foes even with a Silver Lance forge (though she can 2HKO Dracomasters with a Wyrmslayer), but she can 3HKO and has high Spd and so makes a good Adept candidate. She can also team up with the other Seraph Knights for triangle attacks. Nephenee is probably most helpful with the Greil Army, but this also exposes her mediocre Str. Nephenee is likely to fall short of 2HKOing any non-Sage foes, but she too makes a fine Adept candidate with prevalent 3HKOs and some crit to boot. Ultimately, Marcia is more valuable. To close, 4-E is a another victory for Marcia. Marcia's superior movement is critical in 4-E-1. Both are borderline on being able to 2HKO Sages at 1-2 range. Both have an easy time reaching 34 AS by 4-E-3, but Marcia has the huge edge thanks to her ability to wield the Wyrmslayer. Nephenee caps Spd at 34, but Marcia can get the 36 AS needed to double Sephiran and Ashera. Marcia's canto makes it easier for her to receive boosts from the dragons in 4-E-3 and 4-E-5. In summary, Marcia (T) pretty much dominates Nephenee (N). Should Nephenee (N) move down or Marcia (T) move up? I propose Nephenee (N) down. Oscar (N) > Nephenee (N) is a much easier argument than Marcia (T) > Oscar (N). Plus, Boyd (N) and Nephenee (N) are so similar that it is fitting that they should be adjacent. Boyd's Str advantage almost completely negates Nephenee's ability to double. Nephenee has the slightly better Part 4, and so deserves to be above Boyd (assuming, of course, that Boyd (N) doesn't get 2 Speedwings or something silly).

I don't see the "incredible potential". Jill and the Seraph Knights are pretty much strictly better on the potential front. Even Astrid theoretically has a strictly superior endgame (in the fantastic universe where both approach their stat caps) due to the Double Bow. With Fiona's at-best-decent Str and inability to wield the Hammer or Wyrmslayer, her 4-E potential is decidedly unspectacular - even with capped stats.

I don't think this is a bad idea - with the following caveats: What you're attempting (providing prospective players with guidance on which units to use and why) is better suited in the form of a character guide. Determining which character to use is necessarily a multi-faceted decision. Whether or not one should train Ilyana is highly correlated with whether one is already (planning on) training Soren or Tormod. Because a tier list is simply a linear ordering of units, it cannot be fully effective at this. A character guide can. Flexibility/Utility needs some more work. You say utility is "[h]ow well this unit preforms in non-combat related functions. Things like stealing, healing, shoving, and such". But the scores in this category must be exceptionally diverse. Even someone who provides a lot of good support bonuses - like Ike, doesn't come close to the utility that Reyson can provide with his chanting. If Reyson gets a 10 in utility (as he should), Ike should get a 2-3 for providing supports and unexceptional shoving. And that should be the absolute maximum score that supports alone can get you. Supports just aren't that important, especially when we're only considering the half of the support bonuses that a unit gives to others. Also, there is no (good) reason to exclude rescue-drop utility from this category. You say you don't want to double-count Marcia's rescue-drop utility in "efficiency" and "utility", but you're already double-counting everyone's combat prowess, so that excuse doesn't make sense. How valuable certain types of utility are depend on one's playstyle. You have said before that you rarely, if ever, shove or rescue-drop units because you advance your units only as far as the unit with the worst movement can advance. Your playstyle places a low value on shoving and rescue-dropping. There are other players who create super-fliers from their resources. For these players, beast laguz shoving is pretty important and rescue-dropping less so (generally, only Ike gets rescue-dropped). There are still other players that use rescue-dropping to advance powerful non-mounted units forward to complete the chapters. For these players, rescue-dropping (with good movement) is more important that even beast laguz shoving, but both are valuable. This is just one example. Stealing is relatively more valuable for those who use Physic a lot and aren't blazing through chapters. Reyson is relatively more valuable for those who use combat units with canto. Healing is relatively more valuable for those who use less durable combat units. Et cetera, et cetera. You need to intently consider what "utility" will mean. I don't understand "efficiency"'s role here. The "efficiency" category basically double-counts everything valuable that "combat" and "utility" measures. It looks to me like a conciliatory category that you don't personally care about. If that is the case: remove it. Rank units how you choose to rank them. If it interests others, they will participate in the process (critiquing or otherwise). Trying to get interest in your rankings by throwing a bone to efficiency aficionados doesn't seem very productive to me. On the other hand, with "efficiency" gone, neither "combat" nor "utility" explicitly measures the value of a unit's movement. I believe that there's clearly a place in "utility" for rewarding movement - after all, Reyson wouldn't be very useful if he had a movement of 1. But the "combat" category is explicitly designed to neglect the advantages of movement, so mounted combat units might get underrepresented with a "combat" + "utility" ranking metric. Maybe I missed it, but I can't find any explanation of how you plan to accomodate for availability. Does Calill get a better "combat" score than the Mages because she is (generally) better in their shared availability, or do the Mages get the edge because they can contribute to combat for longer than Calill and are almost as good in their shared availability? What are your assumptions about resource use and their costs?