aku chi

I believe you are commiting a form of argumentum ad ignorantiam. You are falsely concluding: "Brom cannot contribute" from "Brom did not contribute". Let me try another analogy. Suppose that, starting in C16, an additional Paladin, Paladin1, would be able to make a host of contributions throughout the rest of the playthrough. Further suppose (for simplicity) that a second additional Paladin, Paladin2, would provide zero marginal benefit. Either Astrid or Makalov could be Paladin1. Now suppose, in this playthrough, I gave Astrid a Bexp-dump and used her as Paladin1. Makalov, in this run, wouldn't make any contributions. It would not be accurate to claim: "Makalov failed to be able to contribute". He didn't contribute, but he would have been able to contribute if I had given him the Bexp dump instead of Astrid. By similar logic, you cannot claim that "Brom failed to be able to contribute" to your playthrough. He didn't contribute. But if you had allocated resources differently, or used different strategies, Brom might have been able to contribute in an equally efficient version of your playthrough. Your run demonstrates that it is possible to complete the game efficiently without using Brom. Well, it's possible to complete the game efficiently without using Jill. These facts are irrelevant to the tier list. The tier list, so far as I understand it, measures potential contributions to an efficient playthrough. My draft run demonstrates that Brom can make substantial contributions to an efficient playthrough. Those are relevant.

That you personally did not use Brom in a draft run is insufficient to demonstrate that Brom cannot make any contributions. I don't know how I can explain this any better. Tell me where it matters. Tell me what Devdan, with his 7 mov, can do that Brom, with his 6 mov, cannot do in an efficient playthrough. I will grant C25, because Brom's mov is terrible there. Thankfully, he happens to be a much better rescue/drop candidate than Devdan (if well trained), so he is more valuable in C25. C17-1 sounds like it might be a potential win for Devdan, because Brom might be additionally slowed down by mud. Anything else? If the goal of the tier list is to rank how much units can contribute to efficient playthroughs, and deployment of the unit being tiered is costless, then availability matters insomuch as the tiered unit can contribute in those chapters of availability. When we're considering the lower tiers, even small contributions like Brom helping us get Vigilante Bexp in C11 can be significant because the units in the lower tiers have generally smallish contributions. Only ORKOing Sages (and the occasional Myrmidon) at 1 range is not what I would call "decent combat" in this game. Rolf does need to go up. I don't know how far, but Bastian > Rolf is silly. But Brom > Rolf is pretty obvious. Rolf is not as competent at getting secondary objectives because he has no enemy phase combat and poor durability. Rolf needs considerably more Bexp to promote than Brom. And Rolf is not a rescue-drop candidate like Brom is (something you continue to ignore). I believe that it would be possible to draft a compelling Shinon > Tauroneo and/or Shinon > Largo argument. (Ranulf should probably remain above that trio.) Units promote whenever we give them enough Bexp to promote. I believe that efficient playthroughs seek to promote (nearly) every unit before C17-1. Brom is no exception. I previously reasoned that Brom would need ~900 Bexp to promote in C17's base. That's a lot, but no more than Marcia, Jill, Makalov, Nephenee, Soren, and Ilyana (and less than Tormod and Rolf). What part of "I meaningfully used Brom in an efficiency draft run" did you fail to understand?

I can count the better rescue-drop candidates on two fingers: Boyd and Nephenee. And even Boyd can have trouble enduring the rescue-drops in chapters 20 and 25 that I mentioned. And neither Boyd nor Nephenee comes ready-made for rescue-dropping; they need training and Bexp like Brom (Boyd a little less so). Besides, we must credit units for what they can accomplish, even if other units can make the same contributions. Otherwise, Geoffrey would be worthless. Your draft run demonstrates that FE9 can be completed efficiently without using Brom. The same can be said for Makalov, Nephenee, and many other units. My draft run demonstrates that Brom can be used in meaningful ways to complete the game efficiently. There are 10 good to superb 9-mov combat units available come C18. It is fantasy to suppose that Devdan is not also falling behind some subset of these units in every chapter (except perhaps C25). The number of secondary objectives that Devdan can reach by turn X that Brom cannot is vanishingly small. To suggest that Devdan is a part of the front line in C18 - the most linear rout chapter in the game - is ridiculous. And if Devdan is making it to C21's throne room, it is on the wings of one of our fliers, same as Brom. I said exactly what I intended to say. Aside from Rolf, Brom has an availability advantage over every unit tiered below him. There are chapters where Brom can contribute and these other units cannot. So I wouldn't be surprised if certain units in low tier are more valuable than Brom in their shared availability (Elincia is obvious). Nonsense. Mounted units are obviously better Bexp candidates than Brom. And maybe we want to raise Mist and/or a Sage, so that's some more Bexp. But, as you go on to point out: "You generally need some kind of support aside from the mounted units". I suggest Brom as that non-mounted support unit. Sure, Boyd and Nephenee are clearly better, and the Swordmasters have some advantages as well (and some disadvantages), but Brom can contribute to routs and via flier rescue-drops. Seemingly, you have a personal distaste for armors, but unless you can demonstrate that Brom cannot make contributions akin to the other non-mounted combat units, you cannot argue for Brom alone to move down the tier list.

If Brom has anything going for him, it's his physical durability. Brom has more concrete physical durability at 20/1 than many units have at 20/20 (including Marcia, Tanith, and - more relevantly - Devdan). Read the argument I linked. Devdan needs about as much Bexp to double as Brom. But Devdan also needs the Bexp to 2HKO (which Brom accomplishes with relative ease). Truly, Brom needs to promote if he is to make any meaningful combat contributions after C13, but he is very solid if given the ~900 Bexp he needs to promote by C17-1. You cannot prove a negative. If I drafted Marcia and never used her, that wouldn't imply that she was useless. My draft run here demonstrates how Brom can contribute in an efficiency playthrough. Brom was instrumental in a 2-turn clear of C20 and a 3-turn clear of C25 (and also helped some in the other routs). * Brom can shove Reyson just as well as Devdan. * When we clear chapters in 1-5 turns with mounted units, Devdan's +1 mov is insignificant. There is only one unit with more availability lower than Brom: Rolf. The tier list already reflects that Brom is a relatively poor unit. Sure, but let me start by suggesting that Shinon might deserve to move up a tier. His contributions (almost entirely in the early-game) are comparable with Largo and Tauroneo's, I judge. And on the other side, maybe a tier gap between Brom&Devdan and Janaff&Elincia isn't warranted, but neither, in my opinion, is a tier gap between Gatrie&Geoffrey and Brom&Devdan. So, Shinon has some early-game contributions. Chapter 3: This is probably Shinon's best chapter. Shinon is a crucial component of a unreliable but risk-free 2-3 turn clear. Shinon is also helpful, though not necessary, in a variety of 3-turn clears. Chapter 4: Shinon can help Titania finish off the boss for a 2-turn clear. In other clears, Shinon can at least act as bait for this chapters numerous enemies. Chapter 5: Shinon can tank some enemies to make it a little easier to funnel Cexp into your desired targets. Chapter 7: Shinon is underwhelming here, but he can contribute to the rout and/or help get a treasure. And Brom has some lesser contributions before Shinon returns: Chapter 11: I've found Brom to be useful here as Vigilante bait; he can make it easy to acquire the Vigilante Bexp. Brom can also help get the Dracoshield (like many others). Chapter 13: De facto rout. Brom can help with the rout, help open treasure chests, or plug the Defend square. Chapter 14: In the smallest of contributions, Brom can light the way for a turn 1 attack or head west to get the Spirit Dust. Chapter 17-1: Brom certainly struggles with the terrain, but he can expose himself to some enemies to help with the rout. Chapter 17-2: If, for some reason, you gave a promoted Brom both Statue Frags, he can shove Boots Marcia to help with a 2-turn clear. There is another 2-turn clear that uses two male Paladins to ferry Mordecai instead. Then Shinon returns. In most chapters, Brom and Shinon are similarly useless. They can shove Reyson or contribute in small ways to secondary objectives (getting treasures). Shinon has +1 mov, Brom has better combat. It's a wash. But there are a few chapters where Brom has notable leads (and none where the same can be said of Shinon): Chapter 18: Brom is a better candidate to kill the Wyvern Riders in the south (he can do it on enemy phase and has better durability). If the turn 7 reinforcements become a factor, Brom is also better able to kill them. Chapter 20: Brom can be a critical element in a rescue-drop 2-turn clear. Shinon can, at best, help visit for Savior. Chapter 25: Brom is a potential rescue-drop candidate. His high durability and good offense (if properly leveled) can be very valuable if neither Jill nor Haar are trained. Shinon can help a little (and I mean little) in the rout, but nothing like what Brom can do. We shouldn't neglect to mention that Shinon's earlygame contributions are costless whereas most of Brom's contributions beyond C14 require a sizable Bexp-dump. With said Bexp dump, though, Brom can make some very valuable contributions (especially in chapters 20 and 25) that exceed anything that Shinon can do. Brom > Shinon

Brom > Devdan Summary:

False dilemma. I chiefly use Bexp for improving Spd or Str on a unit who has capped other stats (for example: Ike's Spd, Titania's Spd, Shinon's Str, Mia's Str). That these units also gain other low-growth stats is an added bonus (especially if it's Def), but not a prime attraction. Bexp is in short supply in Hard Mode; using it on a unit that has already capped Spd and Str is generally a waste. However, I also use some Bexp to: level-up (or Blossom-slowplay) laguz like Janaff and Ulki get high-growth units closer to promotion (especially tier 1 DBs) level-up units with a good growth spread and high caps (like Naesala)

Perhaps. But those of us with a full brain realize that once a unit caps Spd and Str, an early promotion is the best thing for them. Giving a unit Bexp at the tail end of tier 2 to gain additional Luck, Skl, and Res is a poor use of Bexp - which is in short supply in HM. Feeding them Cexp to gain 1-2 of these inferior stats is even less rewarding.

Jill has poor base stats. It is not particularly rewarding to use her without any resources on Hard Mode. Nolan, Sothe, Volug, and Zihark are the DB units to use if you don't want to expend any resources (with additional chip and healing from others, of course - and modest use of the God Units).

Stefan will work as a Mia replacement in the sense that he is a similarly competent Trueblade. He will not work as a Mia replacement in the sense that he does not provide a +Atk support for Ike. But perhaps Soren is already doing that in your run.

If you're protecting Reyson from 1-2 range enemies on enemy phase, he needs to be at least 2 squares behind your frontmost Paladins. He would then need 10 mov to enable those same Paladins to exercise their full movement next player phase. If you're exposing Reyson to enemy phase combat, I suppose the Boots might not make a difference, but then I would question the reliability of the clear.

I also believe it can, but it might require Boots Reyson.

Just make sure you can kill Dheginsea, preferably in a single turn. I recommend Skrimir, a Reaver, and Ike with a blessed Wyrmslayer for the task. You can get additional single-turn damage from a Marksman and any units with canto (that can damage Dheginsea). Other than Dheginsea, 4-E should be smooth sailing, royals or no.

Nice C11 strategy. And congrats on the run as a whole. Edit: Mia needs to crit to kill the Arrive Knight in C11, right? Boyd would make that clear more reliable.

(Disclaimer: I have a layperson's understanding of biology.) I believe you cause permanent brain injury every time you face-palm. That is, smacking yourself on the forehead will kill brain cells that are never regenerated. So, in that trivial sense, being knocked unconscious from a blunt blow will always cause permanent brain damage. Certainly, individuals who undergo repeated head trauma (like professional boxers) are much more likely to suffer significant or noticeable brian damage.

I believe boxing (and MMA and kickboxing) present strong evidence that knocking someone out is highly unlikely to lead to their demise. Over the course of the many thousands of boxing matches with many thousands of knockouts in the past century, there were only a handful of fatalities. This is a rather surprising fact when you think about it. Evidently, humans have a large threshold between being knocked unconscious by a blunt blow and dying from said blow. Padded gloves do not change the circumstances significantly. Consider MMA bouts where the fist padding is minimal and leg padding is non-existent. The primary purposes of wearing gloves is: (1) to protect the striker's wrist and hand and (2) to reduce the likelihood of cutting the target's face. In boxing matches (but not MMA matches), heavy gloves also have the consequence of reducing head trauma from each strike, resulting in longer matches with more total strikes. Then again, I don't make any claims that being knocked out on an active medieval-ish battlefield is particularly safe. You might be killed either purposefully or accidentally while unconscious.

If we're talking about Endgame, Oscar (along with the rest of the Silver Knights) is rather poor. He doesn't have the strength or weapons to ORKO 4-E-1 Generals. It's even a struggle to get Oscar the Str to ORKO 4-E-1 Sages with a Javelin forge. Oscar's poor Str and Spd (cap) makes him close to useless in 4-E-3 and 4-E-5. Maybe he can kill a Guard Spirit in 4-E-4. The Seraph Knights are strictly better (when well-trained), because they can fly, have Wyrmslayer access, and 34 Spd.

What nuance does Radiant Dawn exhibit with its characterization of Begnion? The senators are all over-the-top evil and hideous. Jarod and his occupation army are absurdly over-the-top evil. Sanaki and the Pegasus Knights, on the other hand, are shining beacons of goodness. The rest of the army are just following orders. The only nuance comes from Sephiran and Zelgius (and neither are really Begnion citizens). No, Radiant Dawn just changed the big bad nation from Daein to Begnion. I think Radiant Dawn could have had a stronger narrative if IS hadn't gone out of their way to make the Begnion Occupation Army the most tyranical and callous army imaginable.

Now that's thinking outside the box!

I'll leave it to Anouleth to argue how competitive Titania is (compared with other Paladins) lategame. He seems to enjoy it... A Axes for Kieran is a cinch. A Axes for Oscar is anything but. Still, Oscar can cruise to A Lances, so he can slightly best Titania's Atk late-game. How does Ike get to the seize square by turn 4? I had to rescue/take/drop with both Titania and Oscar. That's silly. Titania (or promoted Oscar) is the most noteworthy element of the clear. Titania clears out enemies, helps kill the boss, and helps transport Ike to the seize square. It's only in the last of these tasks that Titania has a bunch of company.

No. They were. Bingo! This is not a matter of disingenuity; it's a flawed analysis on its face. It's so flawed I refuse to respond to any more of the details for fear of anyone implicitly inferring that the argument itself has merit. Wrong. You're reading things I haven't written. I am absolutely convinced that Titania is more valuable than Marcia even when both receive Marcia's optimal resource bundle (that is, after all, the argument I made). I have not, and have not needed, to rely on the fact that Titania actually dominates Marcia due to the opportunity costs of the resources Marcia needs (and Titania doesn't) to make her optimal contributions. In short, Titania is more valuable than Marcia no matter how you look at it.

My understanding of the Sephiran character was that the Serenes Massacre was one of the chief events that crushed his belief that beorc and laguz could live in harmony. He didn't mastermind it nor intend for it to happen. When it did, he began believing that it would be best if Ashera unleashed her judgement and the world could start over.

I've never argued either of those two things. With respect to the second paragraph, I believe you're misunderstanding an old argument of mine when I was arguing Oscar > Marcia. My argument there was with regards to opportunity costs. For instance: because Boots Tanith could replicate all of the contributions Boots Marcia could make in chapter 18 and beyond, the additional contributions Marcia gains when given the Boots is outweighed (at the very least) by the opportunity cost of the Boots going to Tanith - who could then make the same contributions. That is not that same as saying that any contributions Marcia makes after C17 have no value because Tanith can make the same contributions. My argument applied to the marginal benefit Marcia derives from the Boots. Now, I did overstate this argument when I defined the opportunity cost of Marcia's Bexp dump as the value that Jill would get from the same Bexp dump. I owed up to that overstatement here. I have mentioned in the past that it is difficult to evaluate opportunity costs. I am not immune to this. Therefore, in my two most recent arguments, Oscar > Jill and Titania > Marcia, I crafted arguments that makes it unnecessary to evaluate opportunity costs.

Way to cherry-pick the only clear I documented in the first seven chapters where Titania's contribution is to any extent unreliable (aside from the C3 2-turn clear - which is an admitted longshot that can be gracefully transitioned into a 3-turn clear). There are plenty of Marcia clears with middling reliability. In the C14 2-turn clear, she has a ~25% chance to die to Gashilama in most circumstances (if you give her an Arms Scroll and a Steel Sword forge, her reliability increases). In C15, the solo Marcia 2-turn clear has a ~75% reliability. In both cases, there exist equally fast, more reliable clears (granted: in two of the more reliable C15 clears, Marcia plays a prominent role). I'm not as familiar with lategame clears, but I expect Marcia can face non-trivial chances of dying in C25 and C28.

You mean lose. I appreciate the effort and am curious about the results. I would like to request that you play on fixed mode and (echoing Cynthia) that you document the reliability of your clears. I also recommend that you play chapter 9 to confirm that, without Titania, you cannot get a 4-turn clear (nor a 6-turn clear while recruiting Marcia). Best of luck! Net utility towards an efficient clear with no cost applied to deployment is the metric of this tier list, unless I am much mistaken. And under this metric, even the abysmal Ena comes out positive. Her ability to shove a couple units in her two chapters is a greater contribution than zero.