Lord_Brand
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I think it'd be cool if Mario got a new Final Smash featuring, say, the Mega Mushroom or Giga Bell.
I feel Donkey Kong deserves the "grow giant and punch" FS more than Bowser, since he was the first fighter to be featured as a giant in Smash. Bowser could still get Giga Bowser but use it differently, or he could update to Bowser's Fury.
Peach I expect could get something from Showtime, maybe even a Final Smash *called* Showtime.
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In Shanty Pete's topic about his idea for expansions to the Glitz Pit in the TTYD remake, I posited the idea of gender variants of traditionally male or masculine enemies in the Paper Mario series, in the interest of adding some variety. I also began positing the notion of regional variants of Mario baddies, such as pirate or western outlaw versions of Goombas and Koopa Troopas. I didn't want to derail that topic however, so I'm making this topic to discuss the idea instead.
So first, regional variants. I think this would be an interesting alternative to the more traditional palette swap variants like Gloombas and Hyper Goombas. The stats of these variants would depend on when they're introduced of course, but presumably they would have higher HP and Attack than the base versions encountered early in the game, not to mention extra abilities.
As for gender variants, I think there are a couple ways to approach this concept. One would be aesthetic variants that add some feminine touches (within reason) to traditionally male or masculine enemy designs. For example, maybe a Goomba with eyelashes and a cute fang like Goombella, or a Koopa Troopa with a ponytail like Koopie Koo. The tricky part is to convey that these enemies are functionally the same, unless we want to explore the idea of them having distinct stats and/or abilities. Subtlety and small touches are key, there. A female Spiked Goomba might keep her hair low in buns so as not to distract from the pointy spike on top of her head, for instance.
Regional and gender variants can thus combine in interesting ways, like a Koopa Troopa pirate wench (maybe with a black shell emblazoned with a skull and crossbones for that extra piratey touch) or a Calamity Jane-esque outlaw Goombette.
A consequence of enemies looking homogenous most of the time is that it trains the mind to treat any difference in appearance as important; if the enemy is a different color or has different features, that's got to mean it's different functionally, right? And that is, to an extent, a handy tool for distinguishing different kinds of enemies. But, it's also kind of boring on an aesthetic level. So, I think it'd be cool if there was a certain range of features enemies can have that provide a bit of variance in their appearance while still conveying which kind of enemy they are. Ordinary Goombas for instance could have hair, eyewear, and/or non-pointy headgear, but do not have spiked hats or wings, whereas Spiked Goombas all wear spiked hats, green hats in particular, and Paragoombas have wings (would be cool to see variants with bat wings, especially in a spooky region).
The Ninjakoopas in PM64 are an interesting example of subverting the homogeny rule, incidentally; though they are distinct enemies and characters, they have the exact same stats and moves. Come to think of it, standard Shy Guys in PM64 also have different color variants, and one formation encountered late in Shy Guy's Toy Box actually clues you in to a puzzle solution. And honestly, I'd be cool if more enemy formations could be like that. Imagine encountering a gang of Goomba outlaws in a Western region; they each have different facial features, hair styles (in the cases of ones that have hair), and wear differently-colored hats and clothes, but their attire is still uniform enough to convey that they have similar if not identical abilities.
As an aside, I think it'd be neat to see more Mario NPCs exhibit such a range of greater variance. In their case, there isn't a concern for conveying gameplay distinction since they're neither playable nor enemies. I like the idea of a grid where each NPC on that grid is a unique combination of two traits, one from category A and another from category B. Just five traits for each, and you have 25 distinct NPCs ready to go right there. That's more than what most towns in the first two Paper Marios even have. Add in different ages, genders, etc. for these characters and the variance becomes even greater. For example, a village of Koopa Troopas could have five different shell colors, child/adult/elderly ages, and a mix of males and females among them. Goomba Village was a great, if simple, example of this: Goompa and Gooma were the elders, Goompapa and Goomama were the middle-aged parents, and Goombario and Goombaria were the kids (implied to be teenage and possibly young adult in Goombario's case). The Yoshis of Lavalava Island were another great example, where the five main colors each have a corresponding adult and kid version.
Feel free to share thoughts, ideas, suggestions, etc.
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I could see them going for more of a "bad girl" aesthetic, as opposed to "super cutesy makeup and bows". Like, you know how enemy Koopas have shades and studded wristbands? If we assume those to be male, then the female counterparts could have a similar aesthetic with maybe the addition of a ponytail or shade frames. Female variants of, say, Spiked Goombas could have eyelashes and cute fangs like Goombella. That said, it doesn't *have* to be aggressively gendered; you could leave open the possibility that the Goomba with lashes is a feminine male Goomba. But, I think fans who enjoy having female characters will leap at the idea of "Hey, now there are more female characters!"
Ooh, while we're on the subject of variants, what if there were regional variants of enemies, like Pirate or Western Outlaw variants of Goombas and Koopas? Then, gender variants can play into those themes, like a "pirate wench" Koopa gal with a bandana and a black shell with a crossbones emblazoned on it, or a Calamity Jane-esque Goombette robber with a black or red stetson hat, neckerchief, and cowboy boots. (As another aside, it'd be neat to see Kuribo's Shoe reinterpreted as a cowboy boot; Kuribo's Boot?)
At any rate, the series already does anthropomorphic gender traits as seen with Goombella, Koopie Koo, Lakilulu, etc. So, might as well make the most of the convention.
But, best we steer things back on topic. We could start a separate topic to properly discuss the idea of variants, including gender-associated variants, of enemy characters or even NPCs.
EDIT: I have started such a topic: Variants of Paper Mario Baddies.
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Bosses and villains, sure, but I'm talking common enemy encounters. Female Goombas, Koopa Troopas, Bob-ombs, Boos, etc. Or even more distinct species with female designs by default, such as Birdo. I think it'd be cool to see male and female variants fighting side-by-side, whether as simple genderswaps or as distinct foes with different tactics.
Regarding Jolene:
SpoilerJolene was working for Grubba to investigate her brother's disappearance. She was never actually a villain and even helps Mario a few times, though the story does present her as having an ambiguous alignment at first.
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6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:
Hey now, the Great Gonzales is no sexist! If Goombaria wants a fight, then he'll stomp him with the same tenacity he would any male Goomba. In any case, depending on how much time's passed between these games, Goombaria in TTYD is probably as old as Goombario was in PM64. Maybe a touch older, even. Sure, Lady Bow hasn't visibly aged in her cameo... but she's dead!
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Again, each battle will provide Coins and Star Points. And even if the battles don't sound too tough, don't forget about the conditions that Jolene can set! As for the reward for beating the course as a whole, what should it be? One option would be another badge. I'm thinking the "Star Saver" badge. This would reduce the Star Power Cost of special attacks by 1 - except for those that cost just 1 SP already. So, Earth Tremor would cost just 1 SP, while Sweet Feast would cost 4 SP, for example. This badge would require 4 BP to equip.
Anyway, what are your thoughts on this list? Any notable bosses that I've missed? Any alterations that you're not so sure about? Please let me know, in the comments below!
It's not really a sexism thing per se, moreso the memory of bringing Goombaria's dolly back to her and seeing how tearfully happy she was to have it back. It'd be like if Goombario had a little brother named "Goombuigi" who lost his Super Mario action figure, and was overjoyed that the real Mario brought it back. I'd feel bad fighting "Goombuigi", too, for his "little brother" energy. (Hmm, maybe the Goomba family could have added a Goombuigi since their appearance in PM64?) But, the pain would be softened if Goombaria herself assured Mario she's okay with him fighting her at his best.
(As a side note, I would like to see more overtly female enemies in the Paper Mario series, and the Mario series as a whole for that matter. Most of the enemies we see are either masculine or ambiguous. Could simply be a gender variant, or could be something distinct in gameplay, like a Goombette who can call Goombas and associated variants to join them in battle, with according Gloombettes and Hyper Goombettes, or perhaps the ability to power up their friends, maybe even with their own version of Rally Wink a la Goombella. Birdos would also be a fine addition, being one of the few feminine-by-default baddies to have shown up in the series. Though friendly Birdos would also be interesting; maybe it could be a similar situation to the Koopa Troopas where the enemy versions have a more delinquent look? Kind of a "bad girl" vibe, in the bad Birdos' case?)
It's funny, I almost suggested Blue and Red Goomba having Multibonk and Charge myself, only swapped. I'm now imagining Gloom and Hyper versions of the Goomba King. Y'know, I think it'd be awesome if a lot of Paper Mario bosses genuinely got the chance to return with new twists in future PM titles. I could easily have seen the Goomba King becoming a recurring boss in Paper Mario, if not for Troopa Jr. filling that role. Bowser's Castle was sorely missing rematches with the Goomba King, the Koopa Bros., Tutankoopa, Tubba Blubba, General Guy, Lava Piranha, Huff N. Puff, and the Crystal King, each with new appearances and revised strategies.
What if "Tubba & Grubba" was "Dubba Trubba"? Though I'd think Jolene would have Grubba dogpiled the moment he showed his face around the Pit again, after what he did to her brother and many other fighters. But the idea of a team up between the Spike/Clubba bosses is neat. (Also, you just inspired an idea for a Clubba boss duo in my Paper Mario: Star Patrol idea...)
MVG 3.0 sounds really cool. The first two are among TTYD's most memorable bosses, quite novel for being the first instance in the series of a recurring chapter end-boss character, which really helps Crump feel like a proper rival to Mario.
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Primarina's singing voice in New Pokemon Snap is lovely, too.
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My lists will be WIP, as these things take time for me.
Super Smash Bros. 64
SpoilerIf I could give the first game the budget and development time it deserved, I'd expand the roster to 24 fighters.
Base Fighters
- Mario
- Donkey Kong
- Link
- Samus Aran
- Kirby
- Yoshi
- Fox
- Pikachu
Unlockable Fighters + Conditions
- Luigi:
- Peach: Beat Arcade Mode on Normal with Mario, Luigi, or Yoshi
- Diddy Kong: Beat Arcade Mode on Normal with Donkey Kong
- Zelda: Beat Arcade Mode on Normal with Link
- Marth:
- Ness: Knock out every enemy fighter in Arcade Mode with a smash attack
- Banjo & Kazooie: Pick up or collect 100 items
- Captain Falcon: Beat Arcade Mode in under 9 minutes
- Charizard:
- Bowser: Beat Arcade Mode on Hard with Mario, Luigi, Peach, or Yoshi
- King K. Rool: Beat Arcade Mode on Hard with Donkey Kong or Diddy Kong
- Ganondorf: Beat Arcade Mode on Hard with Link or Zelda
- King Dedede: Beat Arcade Mode on Hard with Kirby
- Wolf: Beat Arcade Mode on Hard with Fox
- Mewtwo: Beat Arcade Mode on Hard with Pikachu or Charizard
Base Stages
- Peach's Castle: Home stage of Mario, Luigi, and Peach
- Jungle Hijinxs: Home stage of Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong
- Hyrule Castle: Home stage of Link and Zelda
- Zebes: Home stage of Samus Aran
- Dreamland: Home Stage of Kirby
- Yoshi's Story: Home Stage of Yoshi
- Corneria: Home Stage of Fox
- Saffron City: Home Stage of Pikachu and Charizard
Unlockable Stages
- Mushroom Kingdom
- Onett: Home stage of Ness
- Mute City: Home stage of Captain Falcon
- Spiral Mountain: Home stage of Banjo & Kazooie
- Bowser's Castle: Home stage of Bowser
- Gangplank Galleon: Home stage of King K. Rool
- Gerudo Valley: Home stage of Ganondorf
- Mount Dedede: Home stage of King Dedede
- Venom: Home stage of Wolf
- Cerulean Cave: Home stage of Mewtwo
Items
Melee
SpoilerComing soon!
Brawl
SpoilerComing soon!
Smash 4
SpoilerComing soon!
Ultimate
SpoilerComing soon!
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Creating a new topic to talk about our favorite Pokemon. I'll be able to go in-depth later, but here are some favorites of mine.
EDIT: Okay, now that I have more time, I'll go a bit more in-depth as to why these are my favorite Pokemon, listed by generation.
Generation I
SpoilerArbok
Ekans and Arbok were the original snake line, and being a fan of snakes, that of course meant they'd become one of my favorites. Arbok in particular has a unique style thanks to its cobra aesthetic. Would love to see it get a Mega and/or regional variant with types such as Grass, Water, Psychic, or Dark.Nidoking
One of the coolest-looking Pokemon in Gen I.Vulpix
I absolutely adore foxes, and Vulpix was the first fox Pokemon, so naturally it would be one of my favorites. I like Vulpix more than Ninetales incidentally, but no denying Ninetales is pretty and fluffy too.Machamp
Of all Fighting-types, Machamp remains king in my book. Its four-armed physique really stands out.Eeveelutions
Like many fans, I adore Eevee and its evolutions. I enjoy the variety of designs that nevertheless retain some common elements (even if I feel some, like Espeon, Umbreon, and Glaceon, don't adhere to the Eevee template as much as they should).Scyther
The coolest Bug-type in my book, bar none. It's a dragon-mantis with scythes for hands, what more could you ask for? Well, a better moveset for it would be nice... At any rate, this is one Pokemon I'll be happy to see creative new variants or evolutions for.Generation II
SpoilerAriados
I may be an arachnophobe, but I tend to not mind less realistic spiders like Ariados as much. A Bug-type based on a spider was a pretty obvious choice to follow up a butterfly and a bee. I'd like to see Spider Web return, I think a combination of that and a poison move such as Toxic Thread or Poison Fang fits a spider pretty well.Sneasel
One of my favorite Dark-types. I like Sneasel's feminine, sneaky look.Generation III
SpoilerKirlia, Gardevoir
I've been a fan of Gardevoir and the Ralts line ever since Gen III. Obviously, Gardevoir has "waifu" appeal, but beyond that, I like it as a Psychic-type who has a close bond with its trainer. I also like Kirlia for how cute it is, and for the dancer theme.Illumise
I recently started becoming a fan of Illumise, as it's a fairly pretty Bug-type, and it's based on a firefly to boot (though I wish they'd given it a lighgtbulb "tail" like Volbeat). Wouldn't mind seeing it get a Mega.Seviper
Seviper is one of those Pokemon that grew on me, like Illumise and Braixen. I prefer Arbok, but Seviper has a distinct, striking look with its red fangs and black body with purple and gold markings.Milotic
While not technically a snake, it's close enough to one for my liking, and I of course enjoy its elegant design.Generation IV
SpoilerLopunny
Yes, yes, curvy bunny girl and all that. But Lopunny is also genuinely adorable; I love its ear fluff. I also like the simple brown-and-cream color scheme. I prefer non-Mega Lopunny to Mega Lopunny, incidentally. Would love a Fairy-type variant with a magical girl motif (because hey, rabbits are often associated with the moon and all). A Cosplay Lopunny in the vein of Cosplay Pikachu would be a treat, especially if they cover different types than Pikachu.Generation V
SpoilerSerperior
Finally, a bona fide snake that isn't Poison-type! Serperior happens to be my favorite Grass-type starter.Cofagrigus
Perhaps my favorite Ghost-type. I like the mummy/Egyptian theme. I just wish it would learn a move that felt like it was actually mummifiying its opponent, such as Wrap or Bind.Meloetta
Of all the mythicals, Mel is easily my favorite for its design and, like most of my choices, color scheme.Generation VI
SpoilerBraixen
I was not a big fan of the Fennekin line when it first debuted. I thought the ear hair was strange. But, Braixen has grown on me over time. Of the three, she does the best job at representing the witch archetype, especially the "cute witch", and her tsundere mannerisms in Pokken add to her appeal. Braixen is pretty much my favorite Fire-type Starter now.Generation VII
SpoilerPrimarina
My favorite Water-type starter. A pretty mermaid seal with a lovely singing voice (check it out in New Pokemon Snap sometime). Its preevolutions are pretty darn cute for being based on clowns, too.Alolan Vulpix
I like Alolan Vulpix as much as if not more than regular Vulpix for the snowy white fur and even more styled "hair". Alolan Vulpix is also quite pretty, with a novel typing to boot.Steenee and Tsareena
Much like Kirlia and Gardevoir before them, I like Steenee and Tsareena for their feminine (and cute, in Steenee's case) designs.Generation VIII
SpoilerGalarian Ponyta
If any Pokemon makes me squee as much as Vulpix, it's this little cotton candy poodle horse. Where Alolan Vulpix still has to compete with regular Vulpix, with Ponyta there's no contest. Galarian Rapidash is pretty too. I often forget that Gal Pony's not Fairy-type, as that feels like it would fit so well.Generation IX
SpoilerMiraidon
I adore the fact both Gen IX legends actually spend a fair amount of time with you, and have unique gameplay roles to boot. Miraidon does especially well at the latter thanks to its ability to transform. Their fondness for sandwiches (and Penny) gives them an adorable kind of dorkiness too (what TV Tropes calls "adorkable"), a refreshing change from all the aloof godbeasts of destruction seen in past generations.Might be fun to write down favorite Pokemon by gen, type, etc.
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I got no problem listing my favorites, but why not start a new topic instead of bumping an old one?
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On 11/7/2023 at 10:02 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:
Definitely a fan of the movepool! It should also get Sludge Bomb, although that one can be taught via TM, so it's not essential to learn via level-up. Speaking of which, since Ice Beam and Blizzard are both TM moves, maybe one could be replaced by a different Ice-type attack, such as Freeze-Dry or Icicle Crash? Oh, and if we want to go with "breath"-type moves, then a fun flavor option would be Dragonbreath.
I chose Ice Beam due to how close it is to Sludge Bomb in power. Funny that both are TM moves, which arguably makes them even more fitting as counterparts. Icicle Crash and Freeze-Dry aren't bad suggestions, though. Dragonbreath is...ok? Guess no reason it couldn't have that move, but would feel a bit odd on a Pokemon that isn't draconian.
On 11/7/2023 at 10:02 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:Love the names, and the idea for "convergent species"! Or whatever they're calling them.
Thanks! I'll let my bro know.
On 11/7/2023 at 10:02 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:That would be a really cool design choice, personally! Koffing already almost looks like a coronavirus, haha. Hm... in light of your "Sickness" proposal, perhaps one of "Sniffling" and "Sneezing"'s abilities could be called "Contagious"? Basically, after the attacker uses a contact move against this Mon, both their attacking stats would fall by one stage. Kind of like Goodra's "Gooey", but lowering offenses instead of Speed. Could make this Mon a decent tank, in spite of its typing.
I was considering a Sickness status that could be essentially like Poison or Burn, but with a different stat reduction. Or, perhaps their ability can function a bit like Mummy?
Contagious Cold - Contact with this Pokemon changes the attacker's ability to Contagious Cold. If this Pokemon isn't Poison or Ice-type, it loses 1/8 of its HP at the end of each turn, and damage dealt by its physical attacks is halved.
Of course, they'd probably have either Levitate or Neutralizing Gas as their other ability.
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16 hours ago, Jotari said:
I think you're right in the broad strokes, but that open choice dungeon order can still be pulled off. A Link Between Worlds manages to strike a decent, though not perfect, balance between an intended order for dungeons and a free choice order. Though to pull that off they had to, effectively, give you access to every item at once and simultaneously not allow more than one weapon to function per dungeon. Which is, just kind of weird.
I figured they could implement a dungeon-building algorithm based on a general layout with some skeleton components (like a tower or split path), then fill that out with different specific elements based on the theme of the dungeon chosen, as well as the placement in the order if applicable.
Ultimately, I realize combining all these together might be a bit too hefty, but I still think giving the player multiple origins for Link would be cool, allowing them to pick different secondary skills to make their playthrough different each time.
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On 3/31/2024 at 7:13 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:
Here's what I'm thinking. Maybe I missed one or two. I grouped them by some shared attribute. Falling in a lower group doesn't always mean lower chances than one in a higher group - i.e. I could think a character in the (>20%) group has a 36% chance, while one in the (>30%) group has a 32% chance. So it's a rough sort.
The thought of Banjo-Kazooie not returning hurts, as they were my favorite addition among SSBU's DLC fighters.
On 4/2/2024 at 2:36 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:I think the anxiety over the next game being "Smash Ultimate, But More" is... people might not buy it. "Why would I buy this new one, when it doesn't do much better or different from the last one, which is still perfectly playable?" Something along those lines. In this paradigm, Smash 6 needs to do something fundamentally different, and never-before-seen in the series, to justify its existence. If putting resources into this new playstyle means fewer characters, then so be it.
I would rather that they add new characters to replace the ones being cut, so that the game at least offers a markedly different experience than its predecessors.
This said, I can probably offer my own tiers, though I use just four.
Almost Guaranteed >75%
SpoilerThese characters have been staples since their introduction, are highly popular, and iconic to SSB as well as their own series. There would be serious backlash if any of these were removed.
- Mario
- Donkey Kong
- Link
- Samus Aran
- Kirby
- Yoshi
- Fox McCloud
- Pikachu
- Luigi
- Ness
- Captain Falcon
- Jigglypuff
- Peach
- Bowser
- Zelda
- Sheik
- Ganondorf
- Falco
- Marth
- Diddy Kong
- King Dedede
- Meta Knight
- Charizard
- Lucario
- Olimar
- Villager
- King K. Rool
- Ridley
- Incineroar
- Isabelle
- Inkling
Highly Likely >50%
SpoilerThese characters are less essential, but still quite popular and would be missed if they were removed. A few were cut before, and later brought back at the fans' request. Popular third party fighters are included in this tier, as the need to negotiate licensing means they're never guaranteed. First-party fighters added to SSBU via DLC are likely to return as part of the base roster.
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Pit
- Zero Suit Samus
- Wario
- Wolf
- Pokemon Trainer
- Lucas
- Ike
- Snake
- Sonic
- Rosalina & Luma
- Robin
- Shulk
- Palutena
- Greninja
- Mega Man
- Pac-Man
- Ryu
- Cloud
- Bayonetta
- Daisy
- Dark Samus
- Chrom
- Simon
- Richter
- Joker
- Hero
- Banjo & Kazooie
- Terry Bogard
- Min Min
- Sephiroth
- Pyra & Mythra
- Kazuya
- Sora
Less Likely <50%
SpoilerSome of these characters were cut at least once prior to SSBU and weren't highly requested to return, some were added as jokes and only gained popularity ironically, and others just weren't highly requested to begin with. These characters could safely be cut.
- Ice Climbers
- Mr. Game & Watch
- R.O.B.
- Bowser Jr.
- Wii Fit Trainer
- Little Mac
- Lucina
- Dark Pit
- Duck Hunt
- Mii Fighters
- Ken
- Piranha Plant
- Minecraft Steve
Unlikely <25%
SpoilerTwo of these characters were cut once already, and aside from a vocal minority, hardly anyone was requesting their return. The other has garnered such a mediocre response from the fanbase that they could be cut and hardly anyone would complain.
- Dr. Mario
- Young Link
- Byleth
So, if I were to guess what the base roster might look like sans newcomers, this is what I would expect.
Spoiler- Mario
- Luigi
- Peach
- Daisy
- Bowser
- Rosalina & Luma
- Donkey Kong
- Diddy Kong
- King K. Rool
- Link
- Zelda
- Sheik
- Ganondorf
- Samus Aran
- Dark Samus
- Zero Suit Samus
- Ridley
- Kirby
- King Dedede
- Meta Knight
- Yoshi
- Fox
- Falco
- Wolf
- Pikachu
- Jigglypuff
- Mewtwo
- Pokemon Trainer
- Lucario
- Greninja
- Incineroar
- Ness
- Lucas
- Captain Falcon
- Marth
- Roy
- Ike
- Robin
- Chrom
- Wario
- Pit
- Palutena
- Olimar
- Villager
- Isabelle
- Shulk
- Inkling
- Min Min
- Pyra & Mythra
Third-parties could be base roster, but I could just as easily see them being DLCs for fans who want them back while leaving them out of the base roster for fans who are less concerned with their return.
- Snake
- Sonic
- Mega Man
- Pac-Man
- Ryu
- Cloud
- Bayonetta
- Simon
- Richter
- Joker
- Hero
- Banjo & Kazooie
- Terry Bogard
- Sephiroth
- Kazuya
- Sora
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10 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:
So my immediate thought is having Link, Zelda, or Ganon at all is the major pitfall to avoid. Think about it, those characters are all Chosen Ones within the established series mythos. To have one necessitates the other two, and suddenly we've lost the ability to go off-script in a Choose Your Own Adventure game. But Zelda can, and has, been a lot of different stories surrounding different characters.
I would argue leaving them out completely would be the pitfall. Say what you will about them, but they are the most iconic characters of the series.
That said, Link in particular has been shown embarking on adventures without Zelda or Ganon in them. Link's Awakening (okay, Zelda is mentioned and Ganon's likeness is used by the final boss, but still), Majora's Mask (Zelda shows up in a flashback once), Four Swords (not one mention of Ganon), Minish Cap (again, not so much as a peep about Ganon), Phantom Hourglass (Okay, Zelda does technically appear as Tetra, but Ganon is simply alluded to in backstory), Spirit Tracks (Zelda is featured, but instead of Ganon, we get a lame Ganon expy; still, not Ganon per se), and most recently, Tri Force Heroes (Zelda's dress appears, but not the princess herself, to my knowledge - but of course, I only played the game once and have yet to pick it up again, so for all I know maybe she makes some kind of cameo and I just didn't know).
And seeing as Princess Peach Showtime is drawing enough attention to presumably get a sequel, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see Zelda get her own proper solo outing one day. The "costumes as powers" gimmick would work just as well for her as Link or Peach, honestly.
10 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:Embrace the side story aspect of a choose your own adventure framework. Separate origin story Prologues for a goron, a zora, a lowly Hylian knight as the "human" choice. And whatever other tribes they decide to include.
Make it an RPG (since we're literally playing a role), and include party members so that you have full access to all the skills and racial traits you didn't choose for your main character. Then design dungeons with puzzle elements that concern those skills. Hand the project to Camelot, and our Zelda Gaiden is a spiritual successor to Golden Sun.
The ability to play as a different race definitely sounds like a good idea for a Zelda game. A long time ago on another forum (that I have since left), I suggested a Zelda MMO that would let you do exactly that.
But, I think it's unfair to shunt the idea off solely to RPG land, as interesting as a Zelda gaiden RPG sounds (perhaps deserving of its own topic). I think there's real untapped potential here for a Zelda game where, for once, you choose Link's background instead of having it chosen for you, where you can choose Zelda's role in the story, where you choose whether or not Ganon even appears (and if so, in what form), and for that matter what kinds of other NPCs you encounter.
Shoot, maybe you can even choose a land outside Hyrule to be the setting. Good place to bring back Holodrum, Labrynna, Termina, or even introduce someplace new (but that's stepping towards an outright Zelda Maker, though fans have been requesting that for years now). Think of it as a chance to write your own Legend of Zelda, and set it in virtually any era of the series. The game could even allow players to save their particular Legend seed and share it with other players.
We've seen "Open World Zelda". So how about "Open Worldbuilding Zelda"?
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Today, I had an idea for a Zelda game that asks the player some questions at the beginning that lets you effectively tailor the adventure according to your tastes. This includes giving Link different backgrounds that provide him with different skillsets, allowing Zelda to play different roles, and even allowing a main villain other than Ganon(dorf) to appear. Whether you like tradition, innovation, or sheer randomness, you can have it in your Zelda adventure.
The core gameplay would be consistent across playthroughs, but the exact events that play out and how can vary. You can for example elect to have a more linear adventure with dungeons tackled in a specific order, or you can opt for another open world Zelda that lets you tackle the dungeons in any order. Link can tackle the adventure solo, or have a companion such as a fairy, an animal companion, a fellow warrior, or even Zelda herself. The main villain could be Ganon (either as a pig man or as a Gerudo mage-warrior), or could be someone new (perhaps using a kind of villain generator to combine various elements together). The NPCs can be pulled from a pool of recurring characters as well as new faces, and some could likewise be generated using a character creator. You can hand-craft characters yourself, or let the system randomize some or all of their traits.
Link's background gives you access to different skillsets, such as a blacksmith's ability to craft tools and weapons, a shepherd's ability to command animals, a soldier's ability to coordinate with fellow soldiers, or a prince's ability to command servants.
The number, order, and complexity of dungeons can also be decided. You can have a traditional nine dungeon set up, with one dungeon being accessible after the other eight are cleared, or you could go for four major dungeons that you can tackle in any order.
What do you all think?
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50 Fighters, all with notable appearances on Switch, NSO doesn't count. Alright, here goes. New fighters in bold.
Spoiler- Mario (Super Mario Odyssey)
- Luigi (Luigi's Mansion 3)
- Peach (Princess Peach Showtime)
- Daisy (Super Mario Wonder)
- Bowser (Super Mario Odyssey)
- Geno & Mallow (Super Mario RPG)
- Waluigi (Mario Tennis Aces)
- Paper Mario (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)
- Donkey Kong (Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze)
- Diddy Kong (Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze)
- Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze)
- Yoshi (Yoshi's Crafted World)
- Wario (WarioWare: Move It!)
- Link (The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild)
- Zelda (The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild)
- Ganondorf (The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom)
- Mipha (The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild)
- Daruk (The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild)
- Urbosa (The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild)
- Revali (The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild)
- Samus Aran (Metroid Dread)
- Kirby (Kirby and the Forgotten Land)
- King Dedede (Kirby and the Forgotten Land)
- Meta Knight (Kirby and the Forgotten Land)
- Pikachu (Pokemon Let's Go! Pikachu)
- Charizard (Pokemon Sword & Shield)
- Eevee (Pokemon Let's Go! Eevee)
- Lucario (Pokemon Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl)
- Braixen (Pokken)
- Cinderace (Pokemon Sword & Shield)
- Meowscarada (Pokemon Scarlet & Violet)
- Byleth (Fire Emblem: Three Houses)
- Alear (Fire Emblem Engage)
- Officer & Oatchi (Pikmin 4)
- Villager (Animal Crossing: New Horizons)
- Isabelle (Animal Crossing: New Horizons)
- Inkling/Octoling (Splatoon 2)
- Sonic the Hedgehog (Sonic Horizons)
- Dr. Eggman (Sonic Horizons)
- Tails (Sonic Horizons)
- Knuckles (Sonic Horizons)
- Mega Man (Mega Man 11)
- Dr. Wily & Robot Masters (Mega Man Legacy Collection)
- X (Mega Man X: Legacy Collection)
- Zero (Mega Man X: Legacy Collection)
- Garland (Final Fantasy Pixel Remaster)
- Warrior/Thief/Black Mage/White Mage/Red Mage/Monk/Ninja/Dragoon (Final Fantasy Pixel Remaster)
- Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time)
- Spyro (Spyro Reignited Trilogy)
- Shantae (Shantae and the Seven Sirens)
Honestly, this looks like a pretty fun roster. All it's missing are Star Fox characters, but I felt these 50 would take priority. Admittedly, Geno & Mallow, Dr. Wily & Robot Masters, and the Warriors of Light (Warrior, Thief, etc.) are cheating a little, as they would all be effectively multiple fighters in one, but hey, Smash has examples of that already.
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The game has a lot of platforming in it, so definitely qualifies as a platformer. "Action" also applies, particularly for Swordfighter, Cowgirl, Mighty, and Martial Artist. "Adventure"? I guess you could say there are adventure elements, but exploration is fairly limited here compared to most modern platformers. The structure is highly reminiscent of Kirby games, which makes the comparisons between this Peach and Kirby funnier. I'd say "Action Platformer" fits best.
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I did consider having the partners be accompanied by associated supporters, such as Goombario and Goombaria. In Goombaria's case though, it just felt...kinda mean? I mean, sure, she's probably a bit older and tougher now, but still, she has that "little sister" energy that would make me feel bad for hitting her, even in a sports battle. Ditto for Goompapa and Goomama; I'm fond of Goombario's whole family, really. Still, the idea of facing the four younger members is interesting. Maybe Goompapa could use a hammer as a nod to the fact Goompa owned one, and Goompapa presumably used one when fixing
Jeffthe gate?No Lakilulu?
Did think of a tweak to Tattle-Shell: Goombario only uses Tattle when Kooper is also active, as Kooper is the one he's talking to when he uses Tattle. If Kooper goes down before Goombario, Goombario will stop using Tattle, which means his every move will either be a Headbonk or a Charge followed by a Multibonk.
On that note, I've thought up some Goombario Tattles for Mario and his TTYD partners as well. Three different entries in the case of his partners, one for each of their ranks.
Mario
Spoiler"It's-a Mario! We helped him save the Star Spirits in the original Paper Mario. Good times, huh? Looks like he's on another adventure, and he's found some new friends to help him. Can't deny I'm a touch jealous, but at least it gives us more time to spend with our friends and family (and we get to skip out on treks through oh-so-lovely burning hot deserts, haunted forests, fiery volcanos, and freezing cold!) Anyway, in case you forgot, he can attack by jumping (which will flip you on your back!) or hammering, and on top of that, he can equip lots of different badges that give him all kinds of crazy powers."
(If Mario doesn't have Ultra Boots and Ultra Hammer) "HP is (Max HP), Jump attack power is 1/2/3, Hammer attack power is 3, Defense is 0 (+ defense increases from equipped badges). It looks like he's a little weaker than when we finished our own adventure. Maybe we stand a chance?"
(If Mario has Ultra Boots and Ultra Hammer) "HP is (Max HP), Jump attack power is 3, Hammer attack power is 4, Defense is 0 (+ defense increases from equipped badges). It looks like he's as strong as ever. Well, no point in losing courage; let's show him what we're made of!"
Goombella
SpoilerBase Rank
"HP is 10, Attack power is 1, Defense is 0. So, this is his new Goomba friend, huh? I have to admit, she's pretty cute. I wouldn't mind going on an adventure with her sometime...AHEM! Like me, she can use Headbonk (which will flip you on your back!) and Tattle. I wonder what she has to say about me...er, us?"Super Rank
"HP is 20, Attack power is 2, Defense is 0. Is it my imagination, or is her ponytail looking more voluminous? Erm, ANYWAY! Like me, she can use Headbonk (which will flip you on your back!) and Tattle. She's Super Rank now, so she also has access to...MULTIBONK!? Jeez, I had to wait until ULTRA Rank to use that! It can hit multiple times in a row, which will really hurt! And in this game, ANY of Mario's partners can use Charge thanks to a badge...gee, THANKS, devs!"Ultra Rank
"HP is 30, Attack power is 3, Defense is 0. Her eyes look prettier than ever. Wait...did she just blush? Er...MOVING ON! Like me, she can use Headbonk (which will flip you on your back!) and Tattle. She's Ultra Rank now, so she also has access to Multibonk (which I had to wait UNTIL Ultra Rank to use...) and a move called Rally Wink that lets Mario move an extra time in the same turn. Aw, man, that is so...wait, is she winking at Mario or at ME right now!? Uh...I think they need to turn the air conditioner on, I feel warm all of a sudden..."Koops
SpoilerBase Rank
"HP is 10, Attack Power is 1, Defense is 1. Looks like he's Mario's new Koopa Troopa partner. He's got the same Shell Toss and Power Shell moves as you do. My Headbonk attack can flip him on his back, which will set his Defense to 0. He looks a little timid...do you think he lacks confidence in himself? And yet, he's got a girlfriend. Lucky guy..."Super Rank
"HP is 15, Attack Power is 2, Defense is 1. He's got the same Shell Toss and Power Shell moves as you do. He's Super Rank now, so he also has access to a Shell Shield that protects Mario. Wow! My Headbonk attack can flip him on his back, which will set his Defense to 0. ...Is it me, or does he look a bit braver and tougher than before?"Ultra Rank
"HP is 25, Attack Power is 3, Defense is 1. He's got the same Shell Toss and Power Shell moves as you do. He's Ultra Rank now, so he also has access to a Shell Shield that protects Mario, and a Shell Slam that hits all grounded foes and penetrates their defense. WOW! My Headbonk attack can flip him on his back, which will set his Defense to 0. He looks a lot braver and tougher now. I bet even his girlfriend will be impressed!"Flurrie
SpoilerBase Rank
"HP is 15, Attack power is 2, Defense is 0. This is Madame Flurrie, a retired diva who resides in the Boggly Woods. Her Body Slam attack hurts, but her signature move is Gale Force, which can blow enemies out of battle. I wonder if it's effective against us? I hope not, that would be an anticlimactic way to end the fight...say, doesn't Lakilester have a similar move? One that he learned at ULTRA Rank?"Super Rank
"HP is 25, Attack power is 4, Defense is 0. She's Super Rank now, so her Body Slam hurts more, and she now has access to Lip Lock, which drains HP from her target. UGH! Reminds me of the Fuzzies..."Ultra Rank
"HP is 35, Attack power is 6, Defense is 0. She's Ultra Rank now, so her Body Slam is at its most painful, and in addition to Gale Force and Lip Lock, she can use Dodgy Fog to make Mario harder to hit. Huh, that sounds a lot like Lakilester's Cloud Nine..."Mini-Yoshi
SpoilerBase Rank
"HP is 10, Attack power is 1, Defense is 0. Hey, it's a Yoshi kid! Or should we call him a Mini-Yoshi? Apparently, Mario named him '(Chosen name)', so we'll stick with that. He calls Mario 'Gonzales', as does most everyone else here. His Ground Pound has only 1 Attack power, but it hits four times, and it's a jump-type attack, so it'll flip you on your back (and really hurt, especially if his Attack gets buffed). He can also use Gulp to slurp up his frontmost opponent (which is me right now!) and spit them at the next opponent behind them (which would be you), dealing 4 damage to each and piercing defense. Um...I don't suppose you'd like to switch places this time, would ya, Kooper ol' buddy?"Super Rank
"HP is 20, Attack power is 1, Defense is 0. The Yoshi hatched by Mario, AKA "The Great Gonzales", during his time fighting in the Glitz Pit. (Chosen name) is Super Rank now, so his Ground Pound hits five times, and his Gulp hits for 5 damage. In addition, he can attack with Mini-Egg, which will hit random targets three times total and shrink each target it hits. He sure is a different beast than those peaceful Yoshis of Lavalava Island, huh? Though he reminds me of those five little rascals Sushie babysat..."Ultra Rank
"HP is 30, Attack power is 1, Defense is 0. The Yoshi hatched by Mario, AKA "The Great Gonzales", during his time fighting in the Glitz Pit. (Chosen name) is Ultra Rank now, so his Ground Pound hits six times, his Gulp hits for 6 damage, and his Mini-Eggs hit four times total. Furthermore, he can summon a Stampede of Yoshis that will hit us each for 1 damage six times. If his Attack gets buffed, the first hit will hit for full damage, and each subsequent hit will hit for 1 less. Yikes...but where do all the Yoshis come from? Lavalava Island?"Vivian
SpoilerBase Rank
"HP is 15, Attack power is 3, Defense is 0. Vivian's one of the three Shadow Sirens. Or, I should say WAS one of them. Her older sister Beldam sure did treat her rotten... Her Shade Fist attack can burn the target it hits, and her Veil move allows her to hide herself and Mario, preventing us from attacking them for a turn. Say...doesn't that sound a lot like Bow's Outta Sight move?"Super Rank
"HP is 20, Attack power is 4, Defense is 0. Vivian was one of the three Shadow Sirens, until Mario came along and won her loyalty with an act of kindness. That's Mario for you! Vivian's Super Rank now, so in addition to Shade Fist and Veil, she can use Fiery Jinx to deal 5 damage to both of us and burn us, while piercing defense. Man...we're sure lucky Bowser didn't employ her and the other Shadow Sirens during our adventure, huh? Though she might have joined our party then, too..."Ultra Rank
"HP is 30, Attack power is 5, Defense is 0. Vivian was one of the three Shadow Sirens, but has since come into her own as a hero thanks to Mario's good influence. She's Ultra Rank now, so in addition to Shade Fist, Veil, and Fiery Jinx, Vivian can use Infatuate to confuse us. ...Uh, Kooper? Why are you looking at me like that?"Admiral Bobbery
SpoilerBase Rank
"HP is 20, Attack power is 4, Defense is 0. Mario's new Bob-omb partner. And wow, does he look tough! His Bomb attack deals a lot of damage if timed correctly, and his Bomb Squad deploys three time bombs that explode after 1 turn. Each time bomb deals 3 damage. That means if all three hit one of us, we'll take 9 total damage. OUCH! "Super Rank
"HP is 30, Attack power is 5, Defense is 0. Mario's new Bob-omb partner, who overcame the grief of his past. He looks even tougher than before! He's Super Rank now, which not only makes his Bomb attack stronger, it also grants him access to Hold Fast, which sets him up to counterattack direct attacks. ...Like my Headbonk and your Shell Toss. He also has his Time Bomb attack of course. This guy could teach Bombette a thing or two..."Ultra Rank
"HP is 40, Attack power is 6, Defense is 0. Mario's new Bob-omb partner, who helped Mario conquer the ghost pirate Cortez. He's Ultra Rank now, so in addition to Bomb, Time Bomb, and Hold Fast, he has a devastating new attack called Bob-ombast, which deals 8 damage to all his opponents in battle. Yikes...I don't think it's a stretch to call him the scariest of Mario's new partners. But, he just may be the coolest, too!"Ms. Mowz
SpoilerBase Rank
"HP is 15, Attack power is 2, Defense is 0. A flirtatious badge thief. Her Love Slap attack pierces defense, and her Kiss Thief move can steal an item or badge from us. Or at least, it could if we were carrying any, but we're not, so that move will be wasted on us. HA! ...Is it just me, or does Mario tend to attract a LOT of flirty girls?"Super Rank
"HP is 20, Attack power is 3, Defense is 0. A flirtatious, mischievous badge thief. She's Super Rank now, and can use Tease to make us dizzy. Her Love Slap is a bit stronger now, too. Can Mario really trust her around his badges? She's cute, but I wouldn't let her anywhere near my valuables!"Ultra Rank
"HP is 25, Attack power is 4, Defense is 0. A flirtatious, mischievous, badge thief who likes to steal kisses. She's Ultra Rank now, which makes her Love Slap stronger still, and lets her restore 10 HP to Mario with Smooch. ...Seriously, what is his secret?" -
I love the idea of expanding on the Glitz Pit, but I understand why they give fans a second shot at the enemies unique to the Pit, so they have a second chance to Tattle them if they didn't already. That said, a second or even third "league" sounds like a fantastic idea.
One thing I think would be cool to see, whether in Round 2 or Round 3, would be matches against the original Paper Mario partners - Goombario, Kooper, Bombette, Parakarry, Lady Bow, Watt, Sushie, and Lakilester. There could also be rematches with some Paper Mario bosses. As an extra bonus, these battles could use remixes of music from Paper Mario.
Goomba Bros.
SpoilerBlue Goomba and Red Goomba, who have been through some training and gotten stronger. They're still easily the weakest of these teams, however.
Blue Goomba
Tattle: "HP: 12, Attack: 2 Defense: 0
This is Blue Goomba, one of the two Goomba brothers you and Goombario fought early on in Paper Mario. He's the younger of the two and is slightly weaker. But, he's gotten stronger since you first fought him way back then."Red Goomba
Tattle: "HP: 14, Attack: 2 Defense: 0
This is Red Goomba, one of the two Goomba brothers you and Goombario fought early on in Paper Mario. He's the older of the two and is slightly stronger. He's gotten stronger since you first fought him way back then."Tattle-Shell
SpoilerThe first two partners of Paper Mario fighting as a duo. Goombario's Charge-Multibonk combo is powerful, but telegraphed. Kooper's Dizzy Shell and Fire Shell attacks can inflict annoying status ailments, but he himself is easily neutralized with a jump. Thus, this duo, while potentially dangerous, is a lot easier to deal with than the upcoming battles.
Goombario
Tattle: "HP: 30, Attack: 3 Defense: 0
Hey, it's Goombario! He was, like, your first partner in the original Paper Mario, right? His home is Goomba Village. Can it really be called a village if it's just one family living there, though? Anyway, he attacks with Headbonk and uses Tattle to give info about his opponents - a lot like me! I guess that makes him my predecessor, huh? He can also use Charge to increase the power of his next attack by 2, and can attack with a powerful Multibonk that will keep hitting us until we guard or superguard it, or it otherwise fails to do damage. Yikes! Is he Ultra Rank!?"Kooper
Tattle: "HP: 25, Attack: 3 Defense: 1
That's Kooper, the second partner to join you in Paper Mario. He attacks with Shell Toss, and can use Power Shell to hit both you and your active partner (which is currently me). Funny, Koops can use those moves as well... Unlike Koops however, Kooper can use Dizzy Shell, which will make us dizzy, or Fire Shell, which will set us on fire. Ouch! Sounds like he's Ultra Rank...Thankfully, he can easily be knocked onto his back with a jump or quake, which drops his defense to 0. You know what to do, 'Jumpman'! <3"Koopa Bros.
SpoilerThe Koopa Bros. return for their long-awaited rematch. Their fight isn't too different from the one in Paper Mario, save for the fact their defenses are higher which makes them trickier to damage and defeat quickly.
Red Ninjakoopa
Tattle: "HP: 10, Attack: 2 Defense: 2
The leader of the Koopa Bros. These guys caused you a lot of trouble in Paper Mario, when they were guarding one of the Star Spirits for Bowser. They've been itching for a rematch ever since. Aside from having higher HP, Attack, and Defense, he isn't too different from regular Koopa Troopas, but watch out when the Koopa Bros. stack on top of each other! Their special attack has 4, 6, or 8 power, depending on how many Ninjakoopas are on the stack. Try to find a way to knock them down, or they're going to beat us fast!"Black Ninjakoopa
Tattle: "HP: 10, Attack: 2 Defense: 2
One of the Koopa Bros. That black mask and shell sure do look stylish! Aside from having higher HP, Attack, and Defense, he isn't too different from regular Koopa Troopas, but watch out when the Koopa Bros. stack on top of each other! Their special attack has 4, 6, or 8 power, depending on how many Ninjakoopas are on the stack. Try to find a way to knock them down, or they're going to beat us fast!"Yellow Ninjakoopa
Tattle: "HP: 10, Attack: 2 Defense: 2
One of the Koopa Bros. I can't hear him over that loud yellow he's wearing! Aside from having higher HP, Attack, and Defense, he isn't too different from regular Koopa Troopas, but watch out when the Koopa Bros. stack on top of each other! Their special attack has 4, 6, or 8 power, depending on how many Ninjakoopas are on the stack. Try to find a way to knock them down, or they're going to beat us fast!"Green Ninjakoopa
Tattle: "HP: 10, Attack: 2 Defense: 2
One of the Koopa Bros. Green really doesn't help him stand out all that much... Aside from having higher HP, Attack, and Defense, he isn't too different from regular Koopa Troopas, but watch out when the Koopa Bros. stack on top of each other! Their special attack has 4, 6, or 8 power, depending on how many Ninjakoopas are on the stack. Try to find a way to knock them down, or they're going to beat us fast!"Dive Bombers
SpoilerThe first truly dangerous team of the throwback battles, as Bombette and Parakarry both hit hard, can hit Mario and his partner at the same time, and don't have the glaring weaknesses of the previous opponents. Worse, Parakarry can remove a partner from battle, forcing Mario to switch a new one in, unless he runs out in which case he'll have to fight by himself for the rest of the match.
Bombette
Tattle: "HP: 30, Attack: 5 Defense: 0
That's Bombette, the third partner to join you in Paper Mario. She's as feisty as she is cute! Unlike most Bob-ombs, her main attack is a Tackle, but she can also use Bomb to explode and deal 7 damage to one of us, or Mega Bomb to hit us both for 7. OUCH! Say, Bobbery is a Bob-omb, too. Do we, like, ALL have counterparts among your old team, or what?"Parakarry
Tattle: "HP: 30, Attack: 5 Defense: 0
It's Parakarry, the mailman! He was the fourth partner to join you in Paper Mario. I wonder if he has any letters for me? Come to think of it, he delivered the letter that brought you to Rogueport in the first place, right? So it's partly thanks to him that we're on this adventure! Anyway, he can attack either of us with Sky Dive, or tuck into his shell to attack with Shell Shot, which deals 7 damage. He'll try to remove your active partner (which is currently me!) from the battle with Air Lift. Occasionally he'll attack us with Air Raid, which will deal 6 damage to both of us. Are ALL your old partners Ultra Ranked!?"Shocking Spooks
SpoilerThe danger only increases with the fierce team of Bow and Watt. Bow's multi-hit attacks already are capable of dealing a lot of damage if not properly blocked, but Watt's Turbo Charge can increase her attack power by 1 for a few turns, allowing her to deal monstrous amounts of damage with even her basic Smack, let alone Fan Smack. Bow can conceal herself and Watt for a turn, protecting them both from damage. Watt's main attack pierces defense, and she can paralyze Mario and/or his partner with Power Shock or Mega Shock. Bow is even capable of scoring an instant KO on Mario's party by scaring them out of the fight altogether, though it's possible to guard against the move.
Lady Bow
Tattle: "HP: 30, Attack: 1 Defense: 0
That's Lady Bow, the fifth partner to join you in Paper Mario. She can attack with Smack, which hits six times. She can turn herself and her partner transparent for a turn with Outta Sight, during which we can't hit them. How annoying! Thankfully, she can't act on the turn after, making that the perfect time to strike! Beware, when she is low on HP, she may try to scare us away with Spook, which will force us to run unless we guard against it. When she brings out her fan, watch out! Her Fan Smack hits five times for 2 damage apiece."Watt
Tattle: "HP: 20, Attack: 5 Defense: 0
That's Watt, the sixth partner to join you in Paper Mario. Her Electro Dash pierces defense, so trying to guard against it won't do any good. She can stun one of us with Power Shock, raise her partner's attack power by 1 with Turbo Charge, or (gulp!) try to paralyze us both with Mega Shock."Rainstormers
SpoilerThis unlikely team of Sushie and Lakilester is a bit easier than the previous couple matches, though Sushie and Lakilester both have a support skill that can make the other harder to hit or take less damage, and Lakilester shares Bow's ability to OHKO the party.
Sushie
Tattle: "HP: 30, Attack: 5 Defense: 0
That's Sushie, the seventh partner to join you in Paper Mario. Her daughter, Sashimie, had a daughter of her own, meaning we're technically fighting a Cheep-Cheep granny right now. How crazy is that? Sushie attacks with a Belly Flop, and can Squirt one of us for 7 damage. Her Water Block will increase her partner's defense by 1 for a few turns, and her Tidal Wave can hit us for 6 each. Honestly, as Ultra Ranked partners go, she doesn't seem too nasty, despite her intimidating appearance."Lakilester
Tattle: "HP: 60, Attack: 5 Defense: 0
That's Lakilester, the eighth and final partner to join you in Paper Mario. He prefers to be called 'Spike' because he thinks it sounds cooler. Sounds insecure if you ask me... Lakilester can throw a Spiny Egg at one of us with Spiny Flip, or attack us with a bunch of Spiny Eggs using Spiny Surge, which deals 4 damage. He can use Cloud Nine to make his partner more evasive. When his HP gets low, he'll use Hurricane, which will blow us right out of the battle and defeat us instantly unless we resist it, so be ready to mash that A button!" -
Koraidon and Miraidon would be interesting as Echo Fighters, though if it has to be a starter Meowscarada is the obvious pick. Tinkaton would be novel for the large hammer. Ceruledge is cool, but with blades for hands, how is it going to use items?
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Eevee & Eeveelutions (WIP)
These sections will be a bit lengthier than normal, so I've broken them into multiple parts for greater convenience.
Overview
SpoilerEevee's distinguishing trait is its ability to evolve into multiple different forms, chiefly by using stones. The current eight possible evolutions for Eevee, commonly known as the Eeveelutions, are Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon, Umbreon, Leafeon, Glaceon, and Sylveon. Thus, in Super Smash Bros., Eevee is actually nine fighters in one. As Eevee deals damage and takes damage, its evolution meter fills up. When the meter is full, the player can evolve Eevee using shield + special. The resulting Eeveelution will be played for the rest of the match. All Eeveelutions share some core moves with Eevee, which is reflected in their movesets. Most of their melee attacks are the same, save for some added elemental effects such as fiery attacks for Flareon and electrified attacks for Jolteon.
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Vaporeon
- Resists metal characters, fire, ice, and water
- Weak to electric
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Jolteon
- Fastest movement speed
- Immune to zap floors
- Resists metal characters and electric
- Weak to burying attacks
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Flareon
- Resists metal characters, fire, ice, and magic
- Immune to lava floors
- Weak to burying attacks and water
- Takes damage while swimming
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Espeon
- Second fastest movement speed
- Resists psychic
- Weak to darkness
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Umbreon
- Resists darkness and psychic
- Weak to magic
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Leafeon
- Third fastest
- Resists water and electric
- Weak to fire and ice
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Glaceon
- Immune to freezing, ice floors, and slippery surfaces
- Weak to metal characters and fire
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Sylveon
- Resists darkness
- Weak to metal characters and poison
By default, only Eevee is playable. However, after it evolves into a particular form for the first time, that form becomes unlocked as a freely selectable fighter that the Eevee player can choose to start the battle as in future matches.
Kirby has a copy hat for Eevee and each of the Eeveelutions, and will copy the according neutral special.
Attacks, Grabs, and Throws
SpoilerGround
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N: Tackle - Eevee darts forward a short distance, then returns to its standing position.
- Vaporeon uses Water Gun, shooting a short-range stream of water forward.
- Jolteon uses Thunder Shock, emitting a short-range electric current forward.
- Flareon uses Ember, breathing small fiery sparks forward.
- Espeon uses Confusion, attacking with a psychic wave that flips opponents around.
- Umbreon uses Pursuit, which works similar to Tackle but deals greater damage to opponents looking away.
- Leafeon uses Razor Leaf, shooting small, sharp leaves forward a short distance.
- Glaceon uses Icy Wind, attacking around itself with cold, blowing wind.
- Sylveon uses Fairy Wind
- S tilt: Covet - Eevee tackles the opponent and steals the item they're holding, if they have one.
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S smash: Take Down - Eevee dashes forward and attacks with a stronger tackle that damages itself a little.
- Vaporeon uses
- Jolteon uses Thunder Fang.
- Flareon uses Fire Fang.
- Espeon uses
- Umbreon uses Bite.
- Leafeon uses Leaf Blade.
- Glaceon uses Ice Fang.
- Sylveon uses
- U tilt: Tail Flip - Eevee flips once, hitting above itself with its tail.
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U smash:
- Vaporeon uses Hydro Pump
- Jolteon uses .
- Flareon uses Fire Spin,
- Espeon uses
- Umbreon uses
- Leafeon uses
- Glaceon uses
- Sylveon uses
- D tilt: Sand Attack - Eevee
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D smash: Eevee spins and smacks the opponent with its tail.
- Vaporeon uses
- Jolteon uses Discharge.
- Flareon uses Overheat
- Espeon uses
- Umbreon uses Dark Pulse
- Leafeon uses
- Glaceon uses Blizzard
- Sylveon uses Dazzling Gleam
- Dash: Take Down - Eevee throws itself into a stronger tackle that deals damage to itself as well. After the attack concludes, Eevee will keep running, allowing it to follow up with a subsequent attack more easily. The Eeveelutions also use this attack.
Air
- N: Eevee curls into a ball and spins, hitting all around it.
- F:
- B:
- U: Eevee flips upward, attacking with its tail in a front-to-back arc above it.
- D:
Grabs & Throws
-
Grab: Eevee latches on with its mouth. It pummels the opponent by slamming them.
- Vaporeon
- Jolteon
- Flareon
- Espeon grabs hold of the opponent using psychic powers.
- Umbreon
- Leafeon grabs the opponent using vines that sprout from the ground.
- Glaceon
- Sylveon grabs the opponent with its prehensile ribbons.
- F: Eevee
- B:
- U:
- D:
Specials & Final Smash
SpoilerSpecials
-
N: Swift - Eevee launches star-shaped projectiles that home in on targets. If all of Eevee's attacks and special moves have been used, Swift will upgrade into Last Resort, which launches a huge star.
- Vaporeon uses Water Gun, charging up a surge of water. The damage and range increase the longer the move is charged.
- Jolteon uses Thunderbolt, which produces a lightning bolt above the nearest target in front of it.
- Flareon uses Flamethrower, breathing a jet of flame that grows smaller and weaker over time.
- Espeon uses Psybeam, shooting a long beam of light from the gem on its forehead. Over time, it will charge up power, making the beam thicker and more powerful, similar to R.O.B.'s Laser.
- Umbreon uses Shadow Ball, which can be charged and deals darkness damage.
- Leafeon uses Magical Leaf, which shoots leaves that home in on targets.
- Glaceon uses Ice Beam, an icy projectile that can freeze the target.
- Sylveon uses Moonblast.
-
S: Double Edge - Eevee lunges forward with a mighty tackle that also damages itself if it connects.
- Vaporeon uses Surf, which does not deal damage to itself.
- Jolteon uses Wild Charge, which is similar to Double Edge but faster, goes farther, and is electrified.
- Flareon uses Flare Blitz, which is similar to Double Edge but even more powerful and fiery.
- Espeon uses
- Umbreon uses Pursuit, a dash attack that deals darkness damage and has double power if the target is looking away from it.
- Leafeon uses
- Glaceon uses
- Sylveon uses
- U: Quick Attack - Eevee darts in the direction you press, and can follow up with a second dash in a perpendicular direction, similar to Pikachu. The Eeveelutions also use this special.
-
D:
- Vaporeon uses Aqua Ring, creating a healing zone
- Jolteon uses Thunder, calling down a lightning bolt to strike it similar to Pikachu and Pichu.
- Flareon uses
- Espeon uses Reflect, creating a shield in front of it that reflects projectiles.
- Umbreon uses
- Leafeon uses Nature Power, the effects of which vary based on the terrain it's standing on.
- Glaceon uses Blizzard, causing icy wind to whirl around it and deal ice damage repeatedly.
- Sylveon uses
Final Smash: Gigantamax/Dynamax - Eevee and the Eeveelutions each get their own final smash which makes use of Dynamaxing or, in Eevee's case, Gigantamaxing.
- Gigantamax Eevee uses G-Max Cuddle, causing a massive beam to emerge from the ground.
- Vaporeon uses Max Geyser, emitting a massive torrent of water.
- Jolteon uses Max Lightning, striking the ground with a massive lightning bolt.
- Flareon uses Max Flare, shooting a massive fireball that explodes into a pillar of flame.
- Espeon uses Max Mindstorm, emitting rings of psychic energy.
- Umbreon uses Max Darkness, producing two tendrils that envelop opponents in a sphere of darkness.
- Leafeon uses Max Overgrowth, launching seeds that sprout into massive mushrooms.
- Glaceon uses Max Hailstorm, dropping large chunks of ice.
- Sylveon uses Max Starfall, dropping large stars onto the stage that emit beams of light.
Other Stuff
SpoilerTaunts
-
U: Growl - Eevee stands ready on all fours and emits a cry.
- Vaporeon's Growl is accompanied with water bubbles.
- Jolteon's Growl is accompanied by electricity crackling around it body.
- Flareon's Growl is accompanied by a fiery aura around its body.
- Espeon's Growl is accompanied by purple waves emanating from the gem on its forehead.
- Umbreon's Growl is accompanied by dark waves emanating from its body.
- Leafeon's Growl is accompanied by swirling leaves.
- Glaceon's Growl is accompanied by snowflakes.
- Sylveon's Growl is accompanied by pink hearts.
-
S: Tail Whip - Eevee turns its rear towards the opponent and wags its tail.
- Vaporeon turns and slaps its tail up and down.
- Jolteon turns and flares its tail spikes.
- Flareon turns and wags its tail while expelling flame from its mouth.
- Espeon turns and whips its tail while its gem glints.
- Umbreon turns
-
D: Charm - Eevee sits and smiles, causing hearts to float around its head.
- Vaporeon sits and uses Rain Dance, causing a rain cloud to form above it and rain on it briefly.
- Jolteon sits and uses Charge, making its body crackle with electricity.
- Flareon sits and uses Sunny Day, bathing itself in sunlight.
- Espeon sits and uses Morning Sun, bathing itself in bright light.
- Umbreon sits and uses Moonlight, bathing itself in a silvery glow.
- Leafeon sits and uses Synthesis, glowing with green light.
- Glaceon sits and uses Snowscape, causing a cloud to form above its head and snow on it briefly.
- Sylveon sits and uses Misty Terrain, causing pink mist to surround it.
Victory
- Jingle: The standard Pokemon victory jingle
- L: Eevee rests, curled up.
- U:
- R:
Costumes - Eevee shares its costumes with the Eeveelutions.
- P1: Plain - Eevee's default form.
- P2:
- P3:
- P4:
- P5: Shiny - Eevee's shiny color.
- P6:
- P7:
- P8:
Eeveelutions by stage (WIP)
SpoilerThis list is lengthy enough to warrant its own spoiler. On each of these stages, when Eevee's evolution is triggered, it will evolve into the Eeveelution listed. However, once an Eeveelution is unlocked, it can be played on any stage.
- Battlefield - Espeon
- Small Battlefield - Espeon
- Big Battlefield - Espeon
- Final Destination - Umbreon
- New Donk City Hall - Jolteon
- Great Plateau Tower - Espeon
- Moray Towers - Espeon
- Dracula's Castle - Umbreon
- Mementos - Espeon
- Yggdrasil's Altar - Espeon
- Spiral Mountain - Leafeon
- King of Fighters Stadium -
- Garreg Mach Monastery - Espeon
- Spring Stadium - Espeon
- Minecraft World - Leafeon for all biomes except Snowy Tundra (Glaceon) and Stone Shore (Vaporeon)
- Northern Cave - Umbreon
- Cloud Sea of Alrest - Espeon
- Mishima Dojo - Umbreon
- Hollow Bastion - Sylveon
- Peach's Castle -
- Kongo Jungle - Leafeon
- Hyrule Castle - Sylveon
- Super Happy Tree - Sylveon
- Dream Land - Sylveon
- Saffron City - Espeon
- Mushroom Kingdom - Espeon
- Princess Peach's Castle - Vaporeon
- Rainbow Cruise - Sylveon
- Kongo Falls - Vaporeon
- Jungle Japes - Vaporeon
- Great Bay - Vaporeon
- Temple -
- Brinstar -
- Yoshi's Island (Melee) -
- Yoshi's Story -
- Fountain of Dreams - Sylveon
- Green Greens - Leafeon
- Corneria - Vaporeon
- Venom - Flareon
- Pokemon Stadium - This stage's Eeveelution changes based on which mode it is in. The Grass, Fire, and Water forms correspond to Leafeon, Flareon, and Vaporeon, while Basic and Rock are both Umbreon.
- Onett - Espeon
- Mushroom Kingdom II -
- Brinstar Depths - Flareon
- Big Blue - Vaporeon
- Fourside - Umbreon
- Delfino Plaza - Vaporeon
- Mushroomy Kingdom - Espeon
- Figure-8 Circuit -
- WarioWare, Inc. -
- Bridge of Eldin - Umbreon
- Norfair - Flareon
- Frigate Orpheon - Umbreon
- Yoshi's Island - The Eeveelution changes with the season. Spring = Sylveon, Summer = Flareon, Fall = Leafeon, Winter = Glaceon
- Halberd -
- Lylat Cruise -
- Pokemon Stadium 2 - Basic = Umbreon, Electric = Jolteon, Flying = Sylveon, Ground = Umbreon, Ice = Glaceon
- Port Town Aero Dive -
- Castle Siege - Flareon
- Distant Planet - Leafeon
- Smashville - Leafeon
- New Pork City -
- Summit - Glaceon
- Skyworld - Sylveon
- Shadow Moses Island - Umbreon
- Luigi's Mansion - Umbreon
- Pirate Ship - Vaporeon
- Spear Pillar - Umbreon
- 75m -
- Mario Bros. -
- Hanenbow -
- Green Hill Zone - Leafeon
- Boxing Ring - Jolteon
- Gaur Plain - Sylveon
- Duck Hunt - Leafeon
- Wily Castle - Umbreon
- Super Mario Maker -
- Suzaku Castle -
- Midgar - Umbreon
- Umbra Clock Tower -
- 3D Land -
- Golden Plains -
- Paper Mario -
- Gerudo Valley -
- Spirit Train -
- Dream Land GB - Sylveon
- Unova Pokemon League -
- Prism Tower - Jolteon
- Mute City SNES -
- Magicant - Sylveon
- Arena Ferox -
- Reset Bomb Forest - Leafeon
- Tortimer Island - Vaporeon
- Balloon Fight - Vaporeon
- Living Room -
- Find Mii -
- Tomodachi Life -
- PictoChat 2 - Jolteon
- Mushroom Kingdom U -
- Mario Galaxy -
- Mario Circuit -
- Skyloft - Sylveon
- The Great Cave Offensive - Sylveon
- Kalos Pokemon League - Sylveon
- Coliseum -
- Flat Zone X - Jolteon
- Palutena's Temple -
- Gamer -
- Garden of Hope - Leafeon
- Town and City - Sylveon
- Wii Fit Studio -
- Wrecking Crew -
- Pilotwings -
- Wuhu Island - Vaporeon
- Windy Hill Zone -
- Pac-Land -
-
Vaporeon
-
Hmm...what if each fighter had their own portion of the Adventure Board? Like, their own set of stages, their own boss(es), and perhaps fighter unlock stages that in turn open up new areas of the board? When attempting to clear a stage on the Adventure Map for the first time, you may be required to play a specific fighter, but after clearing that stage the first time, are free to use any fighter you like.
I also think it'd be neat if they had some "transition" stages that connect different sections of the board together. For example, say Mario and Sonic's sections of the map are connected by such a stage that transitions from Mushroom Kingdom to Green Hill Zone or vice versa. Depending on which side of the stage you enter from, you end the stage either by jumping through a giant ring at the end of Sonic's half, or sliding down a flagpole at the end of Mario's half. Thus, this stage could be said to have "A" and "B" variants.
Fighters would have Adventure Stage clear animations accordingly. Regardless of the exact stage clear mechanism (each series could have one), the fighters will perform their stage clear animations afterward.
-
When a Chrono Trigger remaster inevitably happens, there's gonna be a message in the credits honoring Toriyama's memory, probably while "Memories of Crono" plays.
-
How about Paper Mario? His most popular game is coming back this year, that's going to put him back in the spotlight for sure.
Krystal's promotion to Assist Trophy in SSBU has me feeling hopeful she'll be further promoted to playable in SSB6. Even if she gets in as a Fox echo, I'll be happy.
I'm surprised Octoling didn't join Inkling in SSBU. Seems perfect for an Echo.
Pikmkn 4's success has me feeling confident we'll see something from that game. I can picture Moss/Oatchi being added as a mount for Olimar/Rookie, and of course Ice Pikmin can easily join the other seven varieties.
A lot of third party candidates can easily follow the ones added in SSB4 and SSBU.
Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow - any of them seem like perfectly plausible followups to Sonic. Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow all have an easy starting point for their movesets, too - Sonic himself. Shadow was basically a Sonic Echo already when he debuted and the fact he missed SSBU's roster astounds me.
Proto Man, Roll, X, and Zero seem the most likely followups to Mega Man. Wouldn't be surprised to see Bass either.
Alucard was in considerstion for SSBU. If that doesn't land him a spot in SSB6, I don't know what will.
FFVII is probably gonna keep getting shilled with Tifa. All well and good, but it'd be nice to see other FF games get some good treatment.
-
On 3/4/2024 at 5:44 PM, vanguard333 said:
Interesting idea. I'm not familiar with the Loup-Garou; is there something distinct about it?
According to this article, loup-garous were a result of a person being cursed for not being a good Christian (so, they're punished by being turned into everyone else's problem. Sure...) The main way to lift the curse would be for someone who recognizes them in their lycanthropic state to draw their blood. Afterward, neither were supposed to speak of the incident for fear of worse reprisals.
On the surface level, a loup-garou-inspired Lycanroc sounds like a Rock/Dark type, but I could see one having some Fairy-type moves as well. Alternatively, the Dawn form is Rock/Fairy, the Midnight form is Rock/Dark, and the Dusk form could be Fairy/Dark, or Rock/Normal.
On 3/4/2024 at 5:44 PM, vanguard333 said:Mr. Mime is already a mime; I'm not sure how much more of a mime Mr. Mime can be.
For starters, they could give it a black-and-white complexion more akin to traditional mimes. Possibly facial markings as well. Mimes tend to elicit reactions similar to clowns though, so they might want to be careful how far they go, unless uncanny valley is the intent. Could make it a Psychic/Normal or Psychic/Fairy type.
Interestingly, its Japanese name, Barrierd, does not make reference to mimes at all. This is also why, despite sporting a male-oriented honorific in English, Mr. Mime have an even gender ratio of males to females (a fact that was foreshadowed by translator Nob Ogasawara during Gen I, who was wary of the name due to the possibility there could be sequels with genders).
Makes me wonder if they should try introducing a Ms. Mime counterpart, with maybe a Japanese name like Barriequin (barrier + harlequin).\
On 3/4/2024 at 5:44 PM, vanguard333 said:The sword legendaries definitely should be here. The cloud legendaries were in Legends Arceus despite it making almost no sense for them to be there, so the sword legendaries should definitely be in Z-A.
Interestingly, LA added a fourth member, Enamorus, though my bro felt that was a weird choice for one since it didn't overtly represent a force of nature like the other three do (Water or Ice would have made more sense). That said, maybe they could somehow add a new legend for the sword legends? Maybe based on Constance Bonacieux or the Man in the Iron Mask? Though Cobalion's already part Steel-type, so that latter one could be problematic.
New Final Smashes for veterans in the next game (discussion)
in Super Smash Bros.
Posted
Fierce Deity for Young Link sounds like a great idea.