Espinosa

Current ratings: 9.5 - Abra 9 - Totodile, Nidoran M, Vaporeon 8.5 - Tentacool, Heracross, Geodude, Nidoran F, Scyther, Espeon 8 - Spearow, Poliwag, Gastly, Teddiursa, Magikarp, Psyduck , Machop, Pinsir, Sudowoodo, Flareon, Tauros, Stantler 7.5 - Cyndaquil, Ekans, Wooper, Sandshrew, Smoochum, Miltank 7 - Rattata, Sentret, Onix, Growlithe, Slowpoke, Aipom, Snubbull, Cubone 6.5 - Pidgey, Zubat, Bellsprout, Krabby, Qwilfish, Drowzee 6 - Chikorita, Phanpy, Jigglypuff, Magnemite 5.5 - Venonat 5 - Weedle, Goldeen, Exeggcute, Elekid, Wobbuffet, Jolteon, Koffing 4.5 - Hoothoot, Spinarak, Oddish, Pineco, Magby, Sunkern 4 - Umbreon 3.5 - Dunsparce 3 - Caterpie, Paras, Pichu 2.5 - Ledyba, Ditto, Cleffa, Tyrogue 2 - Hoppip, Yanma 1.5 - Togepi, Unown, Shuckle [spoiler=Order by encounter time:] Chikorita 6 Cyndaquil 7.5 Totodile 9 Pidgey 6.5 Rattata 7 Sentret 7 Hoothoot 4.5 Hoppip 2 Spearow 8 Geodude 8.5 Phanpy 6 Caterpie 3 Weedle 5 Ledyba 2.5 Spinarak 4.5 Zubat 6.5 Poliwag 8 Bellsprout 6.5 Gastly 8(3) Teddiursa 8 Dunsparce 3.5 Onix 7 (3.5) Growlithe 7 Togepi 1.5 Ekans 7.5 Wooper 7.5 Magikarp 8 Tentacool 8.5 Krabby 6.5 Goldeen 5 Qwilfish 6.5 Unown 1.5 Sandshrew 7.5 Slowpoke 7 Paras 3 Venonat 5.5 Psyduck 8 Oddish 4.5 Pineco 4.5 Exeggcute 5 Heracross 8.5 Aipom 7 Abra 9.5 Drowzee 6.5 Jigglypuff 6 Snubbull 7 Ditto 2.5 Pichu 3 Cleffa 2.5 Tyrogue 2.5 Smoochum 7.5 Magby 4.5 Elekid 5 Machop 8 (7) Cubone 7 Wobbuffet 5 Yanma 2 Nidoran M 9 Nidoran F 8.5 Sunkern 4.5 Scyther 8.5 Pinsir 8 Sudowoodo 8.5 Vaporeon 9 Flareon 8 Jolteon 5 Espeon 8.5 Umbreon 4 Koffing 5 Magnemite 6 Miltank 7.5 Tauros 8 Stantler 8 Shuckle 1.5 * reconsidering the rating. ( ) - no option of trade available. Inspired by Venusaur's Yellow Ratings thread. I liked the idea of a discussion a topic like this could encourage a whole lot but that thread has been inactive for a while, so I thought I'd try my best at my own rating thread in a different Pokemon game, this time from the second generation, which is old enough for most people to be familiar with. The rating tries to reflect the Pokemon's efficiency in a concise, quick run, including such factors as usefulness in and outside of battle (former given by far the most prominence), availability (which includes the difficulty of catching), resources necessary to make the unit in question successful, type advantage or disadvantage against major battles of the game (gyms and elites mainly), and of course learnset, stats and coverage. The rating assumes the player doesn't exploit glitches, that she trains multiple Pokemon for the run and doesn't grind excessively for the elite battles (hence efficiency). It is supposed that the game "ends" at the first credits seen after beating Lance for the first time (so the Kanto part of the game is postgame and not counted in the analysis). I suppose the starters come first. Chikorita Chikorita is a grass starter, which isn't nearly as beneficial as it was in the previous generation - Chikorita's STAB is resisted by the first two gym leaders' Pokemon, and they have super-effective attacks to strike back with. However, Razor Leaf learnt at as early as lv. 8 is impossible to ignore, in contrast to the other starters learning their stronger moves at much higher levels - Quilava learning Flame Wheel at lv. 31 and Croconaw learning Surf after beating Whitney. Its imperfect accuracy is compensated by its high critical hit rate. On everything that does not resist it, Razor Leaf is an excellent early means of dealing damage, and remains a great way to hit water and rock/ground types that trainers are fond of using throughout the game. However, Chikorita and its evolved forms seem to have serious learnset issues when you look past that nifty early Razor Leaf. It doesn't get a better a STAB until Solarbeam, which needs Sunny Day to be used more than once and is otherwise not a very good move. Giga Drain does indeed exist, but is acquired postgame. For non-STAB moves, the best moves it has are Body Slam, perhaps Reflect if there's a physical attack in one of the gyms or elite posing trouble, Light Screen later, Iron Tail with its poor accuracy and coverage, and Earthquake which is really wasted if used on Meganium. If you don't intend to run Meganium for support with all the screens, you'll probably turn it into a HM slave... and too many other Pokemon can function as such. Chikorita is a defensive Pokemon to play, and compared to other grass-types, it gets neither a nice STAB Sludge Bomb for a better means of dealing damage, nor better status moves than Poisonpowder (Oddish and Bellsprout both get Sleep Powder and Stun Spore early), nor actually good offensive stats. Speaking of Meganium's compatibility with later gym, and elite, Pokemon... It's good for Chuck's Poliwrath, hits all of Pryce's Pokemon super-effectively but receives Icy Wind in return and goes second the next turn - against all other gyms, it's either neutral, and therefore not particularly useful due to being defensively oriented, or just ineffective. Out of the elites' Pokemon, Meganium only hits Slowbro and Onix super-effectively, and while it can be taught Iron Tail and Earthquake, they will hardly do much damage, and even in cases where they're rather effective (say, hitting Muk with Earthquake or Jynx with Iron Tail), Meganium will be receiving far stronger super-effective attacks, which will kill it unless it's terribly overlevelled. Besides the early Razor Leaf, availability is Chikorita's another major pro. Surprise, huh? You needn't catch a Chikorita, and you're pretty much forced to use it for a while early on in the game, when most other catchable things aren't nearly as good. However, that's still not saying much, as Chikorita is an average Pokemon, and other grass-types, which are also acquired rather early by the way, are more useful in the long run. Rating: 6/10 I'd like to encourage discussions and arguments of any kind in this thread.

When I tried to use Delita and Algus as Chemists, it would always turn out really badly. Healing is the most important part of your tactics before your party consists of monsters capable of slaughtering the enemy party in a couple minutes, and leaving it to the AI with its folly can cost you a victory, especially in maps like Dorter in CH 1. Sometimes you need them to heal, and instead they make an unnecessary attack. Or they revive the character right before the nearby enemy's turn. Having them both with Phoenix Down is nice, but making them Chemists gives them the range to easily waste ridiculous numbers of Phoenix Downs every map, running you out of your money.

I don't believe they are, but I think that is the case with FFTA.

I'm in agreement with AquiIae on most things, but I would just like to bring up my doubt concerning the efficiency of sending your units to propositions. You need to walk around the map waiting for the dispatched unit to return, getting into several undesirable random battles in the process. There are some towns adjacent to other towns where this could be avoided, but not all of them.

Getting your Time Mage to job level 2 requires one mission. One, no more. After which you'll be free to use Summoner for the rest of the game (which is the great majority of missions). If you haven't learnt Magic Attack UP yet, you can switch back to Wizard as soon as you learn your first Summoner spell, and then switch back to Summoner to make use of her superior abilities. Yes, Summoners can equip Rods too, but that's not so important because eventually you'll be relying on Black Robe/108 Gems to power up your elemental damage, anyway.

America is Judaism.

I noticed that sometimes a single summoning of Shiva (or two) is just enough to end a battle. If you keep using the Summoner class, Half MP Cost is a useful ability, especially if you decide to run support with Golem.

They mainly judge things based on maximum potential, like most gamers do. Efficiency can be viewed as immediate usefulness or how long-term grinding justifies the final product of the effort invested into having something reach its full potential. Certainly though, that list doesn't reflect things like availability, situational usefulness in particular missions (e.g. Weapon Break helps disable particularly nasty storyline enemies) and various other factors, only the top of strength when everything is mastered. A bit off-topic, but reliance on single-target blitzing in FF6 is terribly luck-reliant and not efficient at all. If you get unlucky, Sabin will waste your time blitzing the wrong enemies that are already near critical health (when if you could manually target something, you'd aim your strongest attack at something at max health and have a mandatory, weaker unit like Locke finish off the weakened monster). AuraBolt and Bum Rush both suffer from this, so that's a major shortcoming Sabin has to face from start to finish. Imagine facing Tier 3 of Kefka, and Bum Rushing Sleep instead of Girl - she will just keep using White Wind, and the battle will go nowhere. Finally, Sabin has poor equipment choices and is easily taken out by a powerful elemental attack. Other characters have ridiculous perfect MEvade setups that are easily available w/o Paly Shield being necessary, can equip stuff like Minerva and Force Armor, which Sabin can't... The man is a glass cannon, and his single target blitzes are too random to be relied upon. A very fine person in boss battles, though.

I do agree that the Calculator is a burden to the party if taken along to battle prior to learning its cheapest skills, but what I'm not saying is that this shouldn't be done at all. If you plan to use a Calculator in an efficient (=fast in this case) run, you will dispose of all enemies but one, cripple that one enemy and grind your JP to the necessary level. Once the right skills have been learnt, you reclass to Wizard, set Math Skill as secondary and obliterate stuff. If you do this early, you can make the rest of the missions significantly quicker. It'd be really cheap, but I think it pays off well, though I wouldn't diminish the significant amount of grinding needed to settle in it. If you compare it to other lowest tier classes, those will not be beneficial to the party no matter how much time you spend grinding them up. Calculators, on the contrary, will be the team's absurdly cheap units. I did no grinding whatsoever, too, and still got two Ninjas fairly early. It just depends on how you set your priorities, and I set mine to get to Ninja as soon as possible, beginning with the Archer and Thief jobs when these jobs could still do non-laughable damage and there were other units to take care of most enemies, then going the more efficient Knight > Monk > Geomancer path (any of these jobs is more than good at melee combat). Actually, I remember having a Ninja fighting in the fake Ovelia battle, that's how early I was able to get it (skipping all the random encounters). It took Ramza quite a bit longer to get to Ninja than the generic, but that's because I had him master different skills (mainly the unique Squire ones at first). I agree that the JP Glitch shouldn't be taken into account when talking about these matters. Going into Summoner is easy enough - I think having a Time Mage out just for one single battle is enough to open it for that character. And if you train more than one mage (not a bad idea at all, I would argue), the other one will have access to Summoner shortly without even having to reclass to Time Mage. Oh, and if a combat unit is too far from action, he could just, you know, wait. Your next turn will come sooner, too.

Now this is getting interesting... Waha Kife...

I agree that applicability at any given point of the game is important as applicability at any other point, but I think efficiency is not only limited to the amount of time it takes to complete a certain build, but should represent the correlation between the effort necessary and the effectiveness of the final product. For example, we tend to agree that using Nino and Ewan is inefficient because said characters contribute little for the effort needed to train them up to their maximum potential. Does Math Skill follow the same pattern? It's difficult for me to give a definite answer because the Calculator skillset does things the other classes don't do, and can greatly simplify the rest of the game once acquired. I believe the current best speed run of the game employs Math Skill to its fullest, but it should be taken into account that it involves the JP overflow glitch to master the skills quickly. On my last 'efficient' run (which I finished just yesterday) I had no trouble learning Two Swords just by using Ramza and a generic male as ninjas and throwing balls at everything (sometimes attacking something from behind) with JP Up equipped, and I was able to switch into different jobs and give them double attack earlier than you might expect, around the beginning of Chapter 3 or so, maybe earlier. Ninjas' naturally high speed and the ability to continuously attack without moving might have something to do with it. When I switched them to Monks, I double punched stuff 90% of the time and used the ranged attacks only when I was out of range to attack something directly. I wouldn't say it was forced in any way, as Ninjas have enough usefulness to warrant their use until Two Swords is learnt, so it was efficient to a point. I agree that Summoners are hard to use long-term until you have the MP necessary to at least cast Shiva/Ifrit/Ramuh twice per battle, but there are always Chemists who could toss an Ether to make it possible, and I think it's quite worth it. It's true that Wizard with Summon as secondary skill will succeed more than a pure Summoner, but you do need to learn all the necessary summons for Wizard to really shine. I disagree about summons requiring more JP though. Compare Shiva, which demands 200 JP, to Ice 3, which demands 480. Both share the same power, but Shiva is learnt more quickly, is 100% accurate, covers more space horizontally and vertically, never targets allies... Really, the only loss is the MP, plus the inability to combine learning the best skills with having the best stats to use those skills at any given point. I really think Wizard and Summoner shouldn't be separated by such a big gap, and I'd rather put Summoner on top and Wizard lower because Wizards aren't self-sufficient at all and demand reclassing to function well in battle. Holy Knight is fine in that tier with the likes of Summoner and Chemist, but I think it should be above Engineer, Priest and Knight at least. I do know from first-hand experience how long it takes for Agrias to get that Lightning Stab, but the first move in that skillset is just about all you need until Orlandu joins, outclassing Agrias entirely. I don't understand such high respect for Geomancers, by the way. Why top tier? They're great offensive units for straightforward attacking, but their skills are weak, situational to a high extent, and their chance to inflict a negative status effect is too low to be relied upon (which is efficiency-related, I think).

Thanks for the warm welcome folks! I was never corrupted, I've always been a cat! /(^.^)\

Just found some skill tier list on GameFAQs' FFT board: Math Skill is on top, so it's based on maximum potential rather than efficiency, I guess.

The birds are generally the biggest threat in that mission (the allied units can take care of the enemies during most of the turns if yours aren't strong enough, so it's a good idea to have Miccy prepared with that Purge tome and, if you bothered to train her, Jill ready to fly off and try to kill the bird laguz that get near. If you have Beastfoe skill, put it on a physical attacker with good defence/evasion, and let him take part in the defence. If Nolan and Edward have good levels and stats in addition to that A support, they can totally afford to be thrown into the frontal scenes of the battle without fearing to be knocked out, but don't be reckless.

Hi everyone, I'm Espinosa the cat. }:-X What can I say about myself... I enjoy role playing games with incredible OCD tension, listen to all sorts music casually, am a (lazy) reader, I like cute things... I found this forum almost as soon as I grew interested in the Fire Emblem series and I found the site perfect for the kind of knowledge of the game I wanted to have to make it more fun playing for myself, so I bookmarked the page and read things up while playing the games. I found the forums too, and the first thing I did before singing up quite a bit later was search for tier lists and character ratings. I would look at the lists, ratings and read people's arguments, which pretty much revolutionised the way I play my games now (my brain gets extremely aroused nowadays because I get extremely focused thinking which options are the most efficient at any given instance - efficiency has been tearing me apart). Efficiency has been a recurring theme in my life since I started browsing around; like, I find efficient ways to go shopping or do other things offline. I didn't feel like registering for a while because the level of discourse and knowledge of the game seriously intimidated me, I feared I'd have nothing to say without looking like an idiot. So far I've only beaten two FE games, those being FE7 and Radiant Dawn, though I played quite a bit of each and every one of them beginning with FE4 (and even tried my hand at TearRing saga - looking forward to a full translation atm). I think checking the threads has something to do with it, because I get extremely upset at my inefficient choices, and then keep restarting my runs and switching from one game to another. I can't just sit down and play one game from start to end, you see, they all keep tempting me. Also, and I'm really sorry that the moment I introduce myself I also have to say bye, but this is actually my second account here (whoopsie!) and I've only just realised it's wrong to have done this after stumbling upon one of the user FAQs. I did try to log into my first account way back(I no longer remember the e-mail account I used to register and even the login name, let alone the password - I just know the displayed name I had, and I only made one post), so it'd be a little fishy if I asked for a password to that one account when I can't even prove it was me. The FAQ says it's a ban for alt account creation, though I hope I showed it wasn't a mean-spirited conscious scheme that led me to break the rules. I made a point to write down my login info this time around (the first time I registered, it was on impulse and I forgot all the info very soon) and I've already made my profile all cool with kitty images, so may I ask (of the mods) that the first account is banned and this one stays so that I wouldn't go through the chore (together with the site's staff) to resurrect the original one? I'm okay with a strike and won't be offended or anything since it was my fault not looking there earlier, I'm just admitting to this ahead of time so that I can take part in discussion on these forums whenever I want to later. So that's that, hello everybody, I really pray I'll be able to keep posting here, and I'm sorry that I begin my adventure here by breaking the rules right off the bat.

It's not only stats you can break but weapons too. Having Weapon Break can be very useful in disabling some nasty bosses almost completely, sometimes it's even the case of who breaks whose weapons first (the bosses that break equipment will go for armour and helmets, though). That's about it, though. There's some equipment you can steal in the game that's pretty rare, mostly weapons but some accessories as well. If you fight a human boss, look up what they're wearing and decide for yourself if it's worth stealing - some of the stuff can be kinda nice. Archers aren't ever any good at attacking and are outclassed by almost every other physical unit. Guns get better range and are very accurate (you get one soon enough), plus you can eventually get Ninjas with impressive Throwing range (equal to your movement so master those Thief movement skills), double blades, high evade and speed... You should still train your physical units as Archers until job lv. 3 or so, so that you can unlock the Ninja job and whatnot. Wizard/Priest is good, but you might want to make support units function as pure support while the offensive ones who can deal damage very well focus on attacking the enemy. For a mage, the best unit you could choose would be a female (they get more MP and magic attack than males) with a Faith stat of over 70, the higher the better. For physical hitters (Ramza and perhaps a generic), you want high a Brave stat, 70+ works. Brave is useful for everybody because it decides the chance of your reaction skills activating, while Faith is a double-edged sword. 3 generics are pretty much enough. Your team will most likely consist of Ramza, 3 generic units (or less) and at least one non-generic special character with great individual skillsets unavailable to generics. Be prepared to kick some of those generics out.

Is it possible to pull that off if one hasn't picked up the Rescue Staff, though? I don't know if Duke Tanas remembered to get a thief to pick up the item.

I see very little progress in accomplishing anything since over a year ago. This saddens me quite a lot.

Priests are more situational compared to Chemists but do have their advantages as you can heal several units at once, can learn the higher end spells while Chemists rely on items' availability in shops and are limited to the storyline, plus Priests can reach places Chemists can't throw their items to. Having Throw Item on a non-Chemist is good (if you previously mastered all the skills you need), but that means you're missing out on other passive abilities, including efficient ones like Gained JP Up. I usually make my Chemist my party's Time Mage, changing between these two as my primary and secondary skillsets. Chemists can shoot from afar, taking out distant enemies, while Time Mages can equip Robes to halve elemental damage, making them more durable in some battles and support the party with Haste. As you invest JP into it, you can learn debuffs like Stop to cast at the enemy's party and even great offensive tools like Demi 2, which destroy bosses easier than any of your offensive units will ever be able to. Chemist/Time Mage (or vice versa) is a really great supportive build IMO. I've always found Summoners to be superior to Wizards, myself. Their spells cover vaster area, never deal damage to allies who happen to be in range of the spell and are 100% accurate... which is something you'll learn to appreciate when you bump into one of those bosses that give you a miserable 25% chance to connect your attack.

I started an efficient run of the game a few days ago after reading this thread, and it's been going very well so far after a rather rough beginning. I fully agree with AquiIae (listen to this man when it comes to FFT) that there's no such thing as a "turn" in FFT, and the only way to measure a concept like efficiency is through the speed with which you complete battles and perhaps also the convenience (the latter would imply certain amounts of JP grinding would be acceptable or even desirable to make some frustrating missions easier). For example, wouldn't you beat the game faster if you used some missions to grind JP to unlock Calculator and all the abilities that make Math Skill so good? I wanted to ask, is the list of classes ordered by the stats you have in those classes or the skillsets? For example, some people might want to use Monk's skillset under a different primary class, or, vice versa, get Two Swords as a Ninja and go back to Monk class to punch twice for some heavy damage. The builds you end up making for your character throughout the game rely on using many different classes at one point or another. One thing I'd like to argue about right off the bat is Summoner being below Upper Mid. Teach it one of the 200 JP elemental spells, equip the right elemental rod, and start kicking ass. It's easy to unlock, it's very good as soon you start using it and it just keeps being better (at both offence and support - Golem is such a great spell for missions with many physical hitters), and when you've learnt all the skills you want, you could reclass to Wizard for better MA. I'd say the range of Summoner's spells alone makes it better than Wizard (who is somehow in God Tier), plus you needn't fear your Summons will hit allies as well (like they do in FFTA). I'd say Summoners should be at least as high up as Wizard.