Aethereal

They do try to "explain" though. Nils: It seems the quintessence in each person varies in strength. A person of strong mind and body has hundreds of times more energy than the average person. It sounds like there aren't many people like that, though. It took too long for Nergal to find people with enough strength. Although it would take time, Nergal said the easiest way to get that much quintessence was by starting a war. I'm not gonna sit here and try to discuss the specifics of each person's total quintessence because a) We have no way of knowing, and b) You're right, it's dumb. I don't think steroid using body builders have hundreds of times more 'energy' or 'power', in regards to actual physical capabilities, than a short skinny kid, how could a party of 30 people be worth an army? I dunno, but that's basically what IS went with, and they did at least address it.

Quintessence varies from person to person, and Nergal said the easiest way to obtain the quintessence he needed was to start a war, because finding people with high amounts of quintessence was too difficult. I think Nils says "There aren't many people like that though". If we take it then that Eliwood's group is filled with people who would have high amounts of quintessence, they could make up for hundreds, if not thousands, of no named soldiers alone. And Nergal could kick Athos' ass earlier in the game, and he's pretty much heralded as much more powerful than any of Eliwood's group individually. This coupled with the fact he's used quintessence on himself to make himself stronger, he probably has a ridiculous amount of quintessence. It's still inconsistent, but wildly seems a bit off, at least in my opinion. Edit: I am only capable of noticing grammar errors the second I hit post, I swear.

This definitely went over my head, but makes perfect sense. I is smart, promise.

Sooooo, this new patch was incredibly good. Was really anticipating it after FEE3, and it definitely didn't disappoint. A couple comments, in case you guys are looking for feedback. Spoiler tags just cuz I think I'll probably have a spoiler or two. All said, difficulty=great, characters=interesting, and all with their own flaws, and the plot is really pulling me in. Awesome patch is awesome.

And now this is stuck in my head, damnit. This is hilarious by the way

Telling people, such as the Black Fang, who work for the king that you are loyal to the son that he wants to kill may not be the best of ideas. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, in this scene, Matthew and Hector are in a room, and after Matthew leaves Hector discovers the Black Fang member, who was also in the room. Supposedly, Matthew never leaves, but is hidden, and the assassin in the room was also hidden. If Matthew's goal was to draw the Black Fang out, (He says that "those assassins wouldn't show themselves until you were alone") telling Hector would alert the Black Fang as well, and would probably keep them from showing themselves. Edit for grammarz.

Badon, our only known port to Valor, is South East of Laus. As far as it goes, Caelin is still out of the way (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ogFsndBxEY, skip to 9 seconds in for a reference point, just the first video I found), but not nearly as bad as it's being made out to be. Still a detour though, so they'd probably need an alternative reason. Amassing forces for a larger rebellion, that engulfs more territories in Lycia>Suicide mission on Ostia, in terms of how much quintessence you could gather. Totally minor point, but the quote where Hector is unaware if it's an enemy or not, he was off screen at the time with Lyn, and comes back to see Eliwood talking to that random guy. I also completely agree with Camtech on Haussen, we can't really conclude either way where he stood.

I'd think the Seals were put up by the Sword of Seals, which Bramimond couldn't use. But maybe I'm wrong.

To add onto the Jaffar point, before leaving the Black Fang, his entire purpose for living was to please Nergal. Any chance he got, I'm sure he took as an "opportunity".

Divine weapons were probably more respected by Athos than any one else. Testing the people he eventually gives Armads, Durandal and Aureola is probably a worthwhile cause. Besides which, traveling wasn't the only thing they had to do in that time at all.

I'll just say, unrealistic things happen with the stats and levels of the games. Trying to analyze enemies as too weak because of their level or stats, and therefore not worth sending on those very important missions (Such as capturing Nils and Ninian) is unrealistic. Unless we're expecting the games we play to be in the obscurity of the world in which we take place, or for there to be very little difference between late game units and early game units, sometimes the unit's levels and stats will most likely not represent their standing in the lore and/or plot. Edit: Bottle beat me to it

Here's the issues with these points, in regards to Lloyd and Linus' role, and why it is I don't believe this is a plothole. It's been brought up before, but the first is that it's entirely possible the Black Fang doesn't have a large hold over Nabata. It's a desert. The only real civilization there is Arcadia, which is protected by Athos. Aside from them, the only people ever in Nabata are bandits, or in Pent/Louise/Athos' case, people looking for artifacts, which you can kinda insinuate the bandits in 23 are looking for as well. It's apparently common knowledge that there are things hidden in the sand after all. Additionally, how would one of the Four Fangs, who are at the snow base base when they are ordered to kill Eliwood and co, would have to travel roughly twice as far to reach Nabata as Eliwood. When you hear your target is half way across the continent, and are heading to the opposite corner, it seems reasonable to me to wait for them to return, or at least form a plan. It would've been next to impossible for them to catch up quickly, at least to have caught them by Chapter 23, when Eliwood and co. are just then reaching the desert. Nergal is also recovering at this point, so teleporting a group large enough to defeat Eliwood's across the continent seems counterproductive, if not impossible for him at the moment. Also, the second quote bothers me a bit. Lloyd and Linus are supposed to kill Eliwood, why is it random to fight them? Like, if the person you were supposed to kill and you ran into each other, wouldn't YOU fight them? It's also not entirely random-you're near Bern's capital, and that is where the Black Fang is located. It would only make sense to eventually run into them.

How is it negative for the game's namesake to be a motivating factor to the story? By that definition, the Fire Emblem is a MacGuffin. By that definition, it can't be considered a negative, however. It serves a purpose. The TV tropes definition, which looks to have more background on the definition, implies that it is a motivating factor for the sake of being a motivating factor, with no practical purpose to the story. That's a negative tool to implement, it's lazy and doesn't add anything to the story except unrealistic suspense/drama, but that's also not what the Fire Emblem is. As far as the artifact Pent's looking for, I always assumed it was the Heaven Seal Athos trusts Hawkeye with, but I suppose we don't have any proof to that. And as was said earlier, not knowing doesn't seem to matter much, does it? It's one thing if we spend 10 chapters searching for the Fire Emblem and it doesn't hold any significant meaning, (Not the case) as opposed to 3 characters being in a place known for having hidden artifacts for a single chapter.

To address one more argument, yes other villains leave incompetent and weak underlings to do the jobs they are assigned, even if they are the most important things to their plots at the time, without a real explanation. Even in SS. Chapter 6 of SS: Riev: Heh heh heh... Pray it goes as you say. Very well. Do what you must. I must return to the capital. Novala: Will you not stay and see how Eirika looks in captivity? Riev: Unlike two other layabouts I know, I do not have such time to waste. I have much to do for out master. A mountain of tasks awaits me. My time is far too precious to waste on the likes of that royal whelp. Trifles such at these are best left in the hands of servants...such as you. This is exactly what Ursula does. Really, you could swap the two quotes, with the exception of the "Law of the fang" bit, and get, essentially the same results. Edit: Fair enough, I'm just misinterpreting then. Although, I'll also add that you can say this about most any villain, throughout the Fire Emblem series, to some extent. The logical leaps that is. As far as throwing his sanity away, I'd assume he simply loses control of that freedom he reclaims? Or he's simply spiteful, even if he does reclaim clarity and sanity. I don't think that it'd be unfair to be spiteful towards the people who just put you inches from your death and "betrayed" you, wether sane or not.

I just want to address this quote a bit, as it hasn't been, and I figured it really bothered you. The real translation replaces Quintessence with Aenir, his wife's name, which is absolutely not your fault for not knowing. It's a mistake by the translation team for this game, but it does make the quote more sensical, as well as help make the character of Nergal a tragic one. I've always liked Nergal, maybe just because I thought that dark/elder magic in these games is a nice touch that wasn't given enough emphasis. In any case, looking at this quote from Canas' supports: " As you know, elder magic is based on the forces of darkness... It is even more powerful than nature magic, which is often called anima. But to use this magic, you must invite the dark forces within you. The temptation to submit to the darkness is...great." Understanding this, and examining some of the primary dark magic users in the plot (Bramimond, and Nergal, and to a lesser extent Teodor) can explain a lot, particularly in Nergal's case. In his flashback in 19xx, he seems like a kind and caring father and husband. Athos constantly described him as a good friend, before he began his search for quintessence. The following isn't me "making excuses" for Nergal, or the plot, it's what I honestly believe is implied, however subtly, to be the actual chain of events that cause Nergal to be, well, the crazy-evil douche that Nergal is. During the dragons' escape from this world, Aenir is taken by some "Bad men" or whatever he specifically says. Nergal tells Ninian and Nils to head to the other side if he does not return in time, and as you find them on the other side, and Nergal says he "left something" at the temple where he left them, we can assume he never returned. There can be a couple of reasons for this: Nergal was a) defeated, or captured, and incapable of returning to them, b) Found Aenir dead, and was too heartbroken/devastated to realize to return for his children, c) He had to search for Aenir for an extended period of time, d) Something entirely unrelated to Aenir occured which kept him from returning for his children. Aenir is either dead, or has made it to the other side of the dragon's gate, as she is never mentioned by Athos, nor is she seen with Athos and Nergal in any of the flashback images. In either case, his entire family is on the other side of the Dragon's Gate, every one he loves and cares about. His search for knowledge was probably very much related to finding the knowledge to open and/or cross the Dragon's Gate. At some point in Arcadia, Nergal finds his means: Quintessence. This is why he was so obsessed with trying to obtain more quintessence, he desperately wanted to see his children again. In his obsession with obtaining this new form of 'power', Nergal succumbs to the darkness, and allows it to engulf him, or more likely, it simply DOES engulf him. From Athos' exposition on their time in Arcadia, it is clear that Nergal has changed a great deal. This is because of that dark magic. In his search for this power that he craves so badly, the dark consumes him, and it changes his intentions and reasoning behind searching for power. Additionally, we have a great quote from Teodor: "Yes. It's the fate of those who study dark magic. If you covet the dark, you must enter it of your own free will. You must erase yourself and become an empty vessel. Only then will you be able to receive the dark and master it. If your disposition is weak, the dark will overwhelm you. You will be…lost… …Ofttimes, you will forget why you seek the power to begin with. Only a few people ever gain true power." To finally come back to your original point though: Yes, he was simply regaining his sanity for a moment. He had obviously forgotten that he was originally searching for Ninian and Nils, if not, he probably would have been a little nicer to them when they'd come through the portal, instead of stealing their dragonstones and imprisoning them. Why he wanted power so badly to begin with is important; it ultimately led to his demise. Aenir is important because, well, when you're married to some one, have children with some one, and love some one, on your death bed you will probably think of them. However, this reclamation of his sanity is fleeting, the darkness has engulfed him after all. Maybe this line is a bit off, simply in that, you wouldn't be able to fight dark magic once it had taken its hold on you. But who are we to say? If, in IS' decision, it's possible to regain sanity from the darkness for a moment or two, at an emotional peak (Which death quite clearly is), who are we to argue it? I've always loved the death quote to be honest. The point of this totally long-winded and probably unnecessary rant is this though: I feel like this moment really bothered you, and I felt like it was a great end to a tragic character. Maybe I can't change your mind on that, but, I can say that it isn't nonsensical, and that his character isn't just 'insane' as I think you've said a few times, (It's late, I may be misremembering, apologies if so) and I've always loved Nergal's backstory and character. It's incredibly well-explained, and gives him a ton of depth, and to be honest, after my first playthrough where I reached chapter 19xx and put all the pieces together, it turned Nergal from Generic Bad Dude #4 into a relatable character, that I almost felt bad killing, even though it is a video game. I think that for all of Lyon and Zephiel's, and to some extent Sephiran's backstories and motivations, none of them come close to this. Nergal's an incredibly awesome villain, and the other villains of the FE series (Especially Zelgius and Ashnard. Actually, just especially Ashnard) have much worse motivations, backstory, and over all development. I can totally agree that some of the plot has holes, maybe not as many as you think, but there are some. But don't let the bad writing ruin the awesome parts as well, man. Sorry if this felt off subject at times.

The last two posts make me feel like my mortality rate just went through the roof. Seriously though, I may lurk more, but I doubt I'll be leaving the site. @Big FE Fan: I've played 4, and 6-11, so you've got me beat with FE12 under your belt. Been playing since either 2004 or 2005. I'm not even gonna try to remember specifically which of the two years, my ability to think logically at 1 AM is about as good as my dog's. And when my dog wants to go outside he licks the door. But, that is a crazy realization. 6 years is a damn long time to play a game, though I'm sure some members here have me beat as well.

I think that his point was more along the lines of: Karel has, at most, 2 chapters where he is useful, and it's a stretch to call him 'useful' in more than 1. If you train Fir, great, he's useful in Chapter 23, and he adds something to the table. However, if you have trained Fir, he's completely superfluous in Chapter 24. I suppose you CAN trade Durandal around, but generally, you've got one Durandal user to kill Mamkutes in Ch. 24, and with a trained Fir, the results are exactly the same wether you use him or Fir. Choosing between the two nets no real difference, which is why it's hard to say the comparison argument singles out Karel. It's not that no one else compares units, it's that you can have two bow users chip, and they're still completing their role. They still add something, even if it is just chipping. However, if Karel's role is to kill mamkutes with Durandal, you choose between him and Fir if you've trained Fir, and the difference means basically nothing. As in: Karel and Fir will ORKO with Durandal, will have a similar chance at critting, or will get 2RKO'd. Karel or Fir having more a point or two more defense/attack/speed/skill/whatever than the other is all pretty pointless to their overall performance: you get the same results either way. I know you later went on to say that you could throw him an Angelic Robe and he'd be 3HKO'd, and that's a positive I suppose, but I think you'd rather give some one else boots for 4 chapters, including some where boots can save you multiple turns, than give him a Robe so he can be useful in 2 chapters instead of 1. Does he save you any turns in Chapter 24, or even make it easier? I don't think so. On the other hand, if you bring Fir untrained instead of some one else to Chapter 23, Karel is taking up a combat unit's spot. Maybe he's better than your last of the line combat unit, totally willing to agree to that. But he still takes their spot, and it detracts, at least somewhat, from his value. In chapter 24, without a strong trained Durandal user, like Fir might have been, he can completely have value. It's a bit of a pain to ferry him/warp him a ton, but it's possible, I agree. And you probably don't want to waste 2 chapters of boots use, so you'd have tried to give your boots to some one else beforehand. As in, he definitely needs to be ferried. Maybe I'm just biased, but I don't see how he nets you any real positives besides being another combat unit in Ch. 23, which he does okay I suppose, but he does so potentially at the cost of another combat unit.

Been finding myself checking this site and playing FE more and more, figured joining only made sense. I'm really good at introductions, as you can probably see.