LoneRecon400
-
Posts
369 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by LoneRecon400
-
-
Quote
Not seeing costs when permanently having to inject resources to keep up a unit’s performance lends credence to saying u dumb
I see, you didn´t understand again. The materials you have are RNG, getting more is a hassle on a good day, especially if you want the juicy 2 ingredient meals, I´m laughing at gambling in the arena. Just reset bro, mmkay? It´s also only once/map unless you time abuse it. And then there´s the question of who cooks and don´t start with getting the chef hat for a casual 30 Quartz, which is a Hoshidan resource. That´s a lot of fumbling around.
I wasn´t discussing the value of Rally SPD but pointing towards the cost of acquiring it. Which, incidentally, falls in the category of opportunity cost, because if you are doing something with a character you are not doing something else with them. Considering there are only 3 units in CQ who have it in their kit naturally, one of which is your dancer, the other her kid and the other locked behind a reclass.
Doubling Takumi isn´t the benchmark you make it out to be, the guy has 30 SPD; if you want to impress me have him double the PU SM in Ryomas chapter, although I already know how to pull that off. You are also wrong: Benny can double Reina; down below is the setup on how to enable that.
There are not any substantial costs associated with early promoting with how many ways there are to boost stats. Losing out on a couple stats that are not even guaranteed is not worth having to deal with Effie being a 4 movement unit when she could have 7 on top of having a much easier time doubling.
The Arena resetting once a map is more than enough to cover the material costs of anything in mycastle. You don't even need a designated chef, just the standard buffs will do. Food isn't even that big of a deal for the amount of attention it's getting. It's just a nice bonus that is there so that units are less dependent on level ups.
It is not a significant cost to get Rally Speed at all. Even if you didn't want to use player character, you could capture a Kinshi in Ch 14 and have them stab a few Kitsune in 19 with the beast slayer to gain three levels. That only costs 1 heart seal to get a unit who can improve all your other units substantially
Moving goal posts from midspeed enemies to the fastest enemies in the entire game is quite the stretch. I also don't understand how we can include DLC when it shares the same issue of food of not being permanently available. Even if DLC were to be included, it only weakens the idea that units need 20/20 stats since they pick up skills like Dancing Blade or Speed +2 for effectively no cost at all.
-
On 11/9/2022 at 11:08 AM, Imuabicus said:
That´s all very cool but it ignores the simple fact that your early promotion brings with it constant opportunity costs throughout the rest of the game and that can and will snowball; when lategame is harder than earlygame, and for CQ I´d mark it down as significantly harder than earlygame, then early promotion can absolutely be bad [depending on the unit and class TM - see Elise]. To top it all off, WF is a skill. Skills can be unequipped when not needed.
With your theorizing here you are constantly purchasing Tonics, cooking meals which are RNG dependant and limited not only in outcome but also requirements. There´s only so many units who can have so many Rallies, Rallies like SPD requiring most likely either classchange or capturing. What does reclassing and capturing do? It uses ressources, ressources that either cost money, are again rng dependant or use time, potentially negating the supposed benefit when you wanted/needed it. Using kids requires using their parents and that influences who gets deployed where and that changes the way a map may be approached, all the more in CQs earyl game with it´s limited deployment slots. The same goes for pairing up units.
Additionally, the only tools you gain throughout the campaign are more skills - dancing, meals, shelter dances are available early on.
Lategame isn't much harder than earlygame when using all the tools given. I don't see how promoting early is a significant cost if the unit in question can still one round consistently.
Cooking is not RNG dependant with the Level 3 mess hall, since all units benefit from the buffs. Getting the ingredients also isn't a concern since you can just gamble at the Arena for additional copies.
Rally Speed benefits everyone on the team. Getting units like Xander, Leo, and Effie to double without having to rely on levels is a massive boon that is well worth its weight in gold. It's one of the biggest tools in being able to one round consistently in the late game.
The difference the late game has over the early game is the amount stats you can stack. In the late game you have stats from supports, consistent food buffs, Rallies, promoted skills, and reclassing options. You could have Benny double Takumi at Endgame without a single speed proc or Speedwing, but there's no way he'd be able to double Reina in his join chapter.
-
I think a good of way of making it intreseting would be to halve the effects of all debuffs on top of its current effect.
Debuffs can very threatening on the late game, so having a way to directly counter it gives General a unique niche that can't be found anywhere else. It'd be an actual good trade off between being able to double and being bulky.
-
See I find it more conductive just to get somebody to one round on enemy phase in Chapter 17. Defensive strategies like that give more time for Saizo to do something dumb, so I prefer to prefer to blitz the chapter.
Benchmarks to do so look intimidating at first, but it's actually pretty reachable, especially if you're using meals and forges. Like a base Shura is capable of one rounding master ninjas with heart seal and +2 bronze forge even with a Steel Shiriken Debuff.
-
36 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:
Yeah, but the common sentiment strewn across "Rate the unit" threads across the internet has her marked down for problems with speed and not "if you waste resources unnecessarily on chapter 13 you can double the slowest enemies in the game in that chapter, only with no real benefit since they are also the tankiest varaint of enemies in the game and you will take significant counterdamage since you are vulnerable to the chapters Beastkillers."
Not good enough in CQ. Lategame enemies are higher quality than the rest of the franchise and debuffing via non combat exists. You need 20/20 stats to melee or tank.
The point I'm trying to make is that Effie can consistently double mid speed enemies throughout the game. This makes her bulkier thanks to shield gauge and doesn't require much more than speed pair up and Tonic. Wary Fighter is more of hindrance than a boon for her.
Lategame enemies may be stronger, but so are the tools you are given to face them. You can easily have rallies, food, shelter dances, and can stack skills to make up for the difference. You don't need raw stats when you have so many other ways to make stats.
Let me portray an example. An 15/15 Effie has 20 Speed. With S Rank Kaze and Speed Tonic, that's 28. Add on a Rally and Meal results on 34 Speed. That is more than enough to double the majority of enemies throughout chapter 22-24, the bulk of where you fight hoshidan soldiers in the late game.
-
30 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
To be fair, while Benny admittedly loses strength, he does provide Fierce Mien, which is a nice accuracy boost. You also get better numbers out of supports, though the difference isn't that large overall.
I think which is better depends on how fast we're assuming the character is recruited from the persuasion mechanic. I kinda favour Benny myself because the personal is cool for reliability (which matters more in this game than ones with Divine Pulse, IMO), and some of the best maps for pure physical tanking are either before Generic General joins (17) or before I'd personally assume he is able to join (19).
Fierce Mein is pretty cool, but by itself isnt enough to make up for the difference. Especially since he has to be raised up to Wary Fighter to even start being useful.
How fast you recurit generics is a totally fair point. But I don't think Chapter 17 is a good map for him at all, since the chapter becomes a lot easier if you have units that can one round the ninjas, which he can't do at all.
27 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:What does CQ13 not have a lot of? Hoshidan enemies. What else does it have? Some of the slowest enemy classes in the game. What did I forget to mention? The faster enemies (Samurai, Ninja, Pegasus) tend to be physically frail, thus enabling Effie to 1HKO.
Having promoted units at chapter 13 strikes me as unnessecary and wasteful.
The example was supposed how she can regularly double even considering her base Speed. It not like every enemy in conquest is an ninja.
Early promoting is good. Going from 4 from 7 movement and having speed to double is a pretty big boon. You don't need 20/20 stats to be useful in the lategame.
-
37 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:
All that trouble for what is, to be blunt, a worse version of a unit I can get just by playing the damn game? Pass.
Average 20/4 General Benny:
HP 39.75 | Str 22.80 | Skl 22.20 | Spd 7.05 |
Lck 16.60 | Def 31.00 | Res 15.75
Ch 18 General boss:
HP 47 (+8) | Str 28 (+6) | Skl 20 (-2) | Spd 11 (+4) |
12 Lck (-4) | Def 31 (0) | Res 15 (0)
+7 Strength (A-Rank Lances) is quite significant, especially since they don't need any levels learn Wary Fighter.
I can understand not wanting to use generics, but to say that they are weaker is just wrong unless you're stacking skills through supports.
-
2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:
5 base SPD tho
Hoshidans are fast as fuck
This is also Fates. There is more than enough to ways stack stats to shore up any weakness, especially since Effie has a good speed growth.
For example, an average Effie promoted at level 15 averages around 13 speed as a great knight. Throw in a master ninja Kaze Pair up and a Speed Tonic, that's 20 Speed. That's enough to double almost every enemy in Chapter 13.
And that's just the normal stuff. If we threw on everything such as Speed Meals, Special Dance, and a Raider Naginata, she could double Ryoma in Chapter 12.
Wary Fighter is just not very good since it does nothing to help reach one rounding benchmarks to prevent seal skills and poison strike and drastically slows down the rate shield gauge goes up.
It only helps Benny because he is on the lower end of the cast since he lacks a good offense and his speed is unsalavageable without massive favoritism. If you wanted to use an Armor Knight, Ch 18 General Boss is a much better unit.
-
-One thing you could do with Byleth is make them a Falco Knight with Battalion Desperation. The required ranks are bit lower, and so long as you are regularly cooking speed meals, she can double and one round pretty consistently. Might require a Speed wing or two plus Weight -3 to keep that up by the late game though.
-Dimitri doesn't really need an +Atk Adjutant. One rounding benchmarks with crits aren't hard to reach. He could one round 90% of enemies at endgame with 30 Strength alone, and he averages much more than that by level 40. Giving him someone like Ashe would be good enough.
-Likewise, Mercedes also doesn't need one. A Brave magic attack deals so overkill the only part of the game you'll have to worry about damage is Endgame, where enemy HP is highly inflated. And even then she will be able to one round so long as she stays on her averages. Also no point in making her a Valkyrie, Hit+20 is more than adequate with some of the hit boosting magic battalions.
-Str +2 > Lance Crit +10 for Sylvain. Won't matter much by the time he gets S Lances, but would help out a lot all game long better than +2 Def.
-Don't expect Ingrid to double as Bow Kinght. Speed Growth alone is not enough to consistently double by the lategame. Skills and Classes play way more of a role in doubling than growths do.
-Would not recommend Paladin Ferdinand as a tanking role like you described. Face tanking as anything other than a Fortress or Great Knight is just not effective. They take way too much damage to take more than 1-2 rounds of combat.
-
Empire Calvary: 4/10. +4 Atk and Def are not going to cut when you re starting to unlock Paralogue battalions.
Empire Armored Corp: 8/10. While the battalion it self is pretty lackluster, Impregenable Wall is a real game changer. Not only can it make any unit capable of surviving any enemy phase, it also serves a lot of other useful roles as well. It can protect Vengeance users from siege equipment, it can help boost the rate of class masteries, it can divert enemies to attack a Wrath user rather than another unit, it can be used to deny same turn reinforcements, etc. That gambit opens up so many alternative strategies that would otherwise not be possible that giving it any lower of score would be undervaluing it imo.
Empire Pegasus Corp: 7.5/10. I have to agree with Dark Holy Elf that this is the best non B rank flying battalion. +15 hit is par with most B and A rank battalions, and the fact that it's only D rank only amplifies how good it is. Really, it's enough to take it to endgame when paired with a powerful combat art like Venegnce or Swift Strikes.
Empire Wyvern Co: 6.5/10. It's amazing how this is pretty much on par with Empire Cavs, but because it has a pair of wings, the score increases by an entire quarter.
Empire Snipers: 6/10. And we can see the opposite of that as well. It's an alright battalion, but outside of giving hit, it's just another decent stat stick.
Empire Pavise: 4.5/10. While I do agree it's not very good in general, I am going to have to give a shout out for enabling Def Stacking on a Fortress Knight for Hunting by Daybreak. Enabling a unit like Caspar to do something useful in that chapter does give it a concrete, if extremely niche, use I say.
Empire Magic Users: 5/10. I find this battalion to be pretty meh since I only really evaluate by it's stats. By the time Chapter 8 rolls around, I typically have units focused on enemy phase already set up, so offensive gambits fall by the wayside in terms of usefulness pretty drastically. If you played without enemy phase units, I can see why you'd rate this battalion higher for paralogue maps. But even then, the Black Eagles are not going to be fighting many paralogues if you're not going to recruit out of house like a lot of people here.
-
Can confirm neither battalion shows up in Chapter 3.
Essbar Research Group: N/A. I don't have online services, so I wouldn't have any way to obtain it normally. Based off it's stats I'd give it an easy 8/10, but I have no idea how obtainable it is. Personally, I don't think this battalion should be rated at all just because I don't think anyone here has actually used it.
Nuvelle Chamberlain: 8/10. It has stats on par with Leicester Mercs at C Rank. B Rank battalions are some of the biggest increases in power you can give to a unit, so having one almost just as powerful at C Rank is a really big boon on authority bane units like Felix. Not having access to a offensive gambit is something I find not to be a big deal, as it arrives when units are starting to consistently one round and enemy phase set ups are also starting up. Shame how they patched the Battleground Cafe glitch though.
Nuvelle Attendants: 6.5/10. Basically the same as the above except on mages. Which is good considering how lacking good mage battalions since it's pretty much Gloucester and that's it until either the time skip or A authority. Hapi really appreciates it, but having no hit on it makes it kinda of suffering until Uncanny Blow comes in, and so it makes me knock down the score.
Nuvelle Stewards: 5.5/10. Mixed setups in Three Houses rightfully get a bad rep, but I don't think that should be applied to the battalions. Even without any focus on magic at all, units like Grapplers are pretty easily able to one round things like Fortress knights with Aura Gauntlets when they wouldn't be able to with regular gauntlets. The only problem with this battalion is that there's really not much reason to use it over Leicester Dicers. But hey, at least it has a good gambit with some amazing charm to go with it for some of the harder paralogue fights.
Seiros Brawlers: 2/10 Brawlers without any of the availability, which was the only reason why they were any good to begin with.
Seiros Armored: 2/10 If it had Impregnable Wall maybe there could be some discussion here. As is it's just bad filler.
-
Merchant Military: 3.5/10 I'll be honest I overlooked this one to the point where I didnt even know it provided magic. Having know that now, I can see it being okay filler for mages 2-3 chapter. Poison Tactic is cool even if doesn't have any might since its the stagger effect that makes gambits good anyways. Having 1 charm would mean it'd need a lot of set up though.
Seiros Archers: 7/10.
Bandits: 3/10. Worse Seiros Mercs with half the availability. Really by the time you get it there's no almost no practical reason to use it, but it's still has ok stats on paper, so it escapes the absolute worst category.
The Rest: 1/10. Not even worth typing out for.
-
2 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:
And yes I feel a need to stress again we're arguing the minutiae of half a point.
Physical units have a greater variety of ways to boost their accuracy. Every single D rank combat art in the game gives at minimum +10 hit. Their greater battalion selection helps as well as being able to swap to a more accurate weapon or combat art. And if all else fails, nail them with a gambit. You can still set up gambit boosts in a forest, and gambit accuracy ignores terrain just like magic does.
Lysithea and Marianne would like some Hit, please.
Physical units have a far wider variety of battalions to choose from and they care a great deal more about other stats than mages do, like avoid and crit. And a lot of great value battalions just sort of have Hit to begin with.
The +10 hit of Seiros Mercs isn't the premier reason why you take that battalion.
I need to stress again that it was never about the actual rating, it was the about the logic that went into it.
Combat arts alone are not enough to secure hit rates. Going from hit rates mid 70's to to mid 80's on dangerous enemies like thieves is huge boon considering true hit. And outside of battalions, there's no other good way of increasing Hit in the earlygame. Weapons can't be forged, Supports are non existent, and there are no great hit boosting skills in play. Mages don't need Hit as badly because they are either attacking at range or have accurate magic arts.
Golden Deer Mage hit rates with spells are still terrible even with +10 Hit. Magic Combat arts are the best way of growing mages in the earlygame precisely because they don't have to worry about to their hit rates as much. Lysithea using a Steel Soulblade can have as much as +15 hit over miasma with +6 Might. With a Training Sword that's +30 while still hitting as hard as a tempest user. Alliance Mages can make it such that they can secure a kill with the training sword and still be able deal out damage with a steel as an option.
What selection of good +Hit battalions does Golden Deer have in the earlygame? Because there's only one that comes close to +10 Hit, and there's no way it's good.
I just legitimately don't understand how you value extremely inconsistent boons like avoid and crit greater than a way to actually get help with hit rates at a section where barely anything can be done about them.
-
13 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:
I have spent so many more divine pulses after missing a crucial attack (or gambit, hint hint) than I ever have on being two points of damage short of making a kill. That is as true of late game as it is of early game.
There's been a lot of nitpicking already about my ratings, but you're on me for a half a point?
The issue I'm having is that I don't see how that logic is consistent. It's apparently worth putting a zero might battalion on mages just for the Hit, but it's not as worth doing the same for physical battalions that have actual stats somehow?
I don't get that mindset at all, especially since it should be the opposite. Physical units should prioritize Hit a lot more than them, as if they miss a finishing blow on enemy, they'll be the ones facing a counterattack instead unlike mages with spells.
What gets me isn't the ratings of the battalions, it's the reasoning behind the ratings and if they're being applied consistently. Rating something like Kingdom Lancers better than Seiros Mercs when you'd accept no stats from Sacred Monks just for better Hit requires more elaboration than just saying it's bad for mages.
-
46 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:
Yeah? +10 hit. Better gambit. Same amount of res, spam it for more authority before the chapter ends.
...I seriously don't understand how Hit on mages is apparently so vital that it's worth equipping a 0 atk battalion for.
That goes double when you gave Seiros Mercs, a battalion that gives the same amount of Hit plus 3 Atk, a half point better than some of the worst battalions in the game.
-
1 minute ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:
Easy. The Seiros version is better in every way. So you get that one, stride, and the white magic one. Your mages are set.
You'd seriously rather get Seiros Holy Monks over Alliance Mages?
Bruh
-
15 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:
Soulblade will still be there if they're equipped with Stride instead. I don't have my mages kill things, they chip and support.
Mages should be first in line to get kills in the earlygame to get into monk to obtain an actual acceptable amount of spells. +3 Magic Attack really makes a difference in doing that, especially since that's one of the better offensive options by that point.
I just don't see the argument for putting Alliance Mages on par with some of the worst battalions in the game when it does serve a proper use unlike the other 1-2 score battalions.
-
1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:
Do you usually unlock these girls' budding talents by the chapter 3 battle, though? I tend to think of Faith as their biggest priority. Marianne wants C Faith ASAP for Physic, whereas Lysithea wants B Faith for Warp. Plus, each of them needs training in Authority to even equip a Magic-boosting battalion. This is especially true of Marianne, who is Authority-neutral and starts at E (rather than E+ with a boon).
Marianne starts with D+ Faith (180), so she can get C Faith (300) by Chapter 3 just with weekly goals. Same goes for her Authority.
Lysithea can unlock Soulblade while still getting B Faith in Chapter 5 with Sauna. Granted, according to my numbers it requires her using white magic ~25 times. So she may have to resort to using Nosferatu a couple times, but it's totally doable.
-
1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:
Alliance Magic Corps: 1.5 out of 10.
I'm going to throw that one into question. You have two native units with budding magical weapons arts, and those are both the strongest and most accurate way of dealing of damage for the two of them. Like a base Marianne is capable of finishing off enemies in Chapter 3 with this battalion at level 1 after Steel Bow Chip from Ignatz, and that's not something a lot of units can say.
It helps the two mages escape from noble that much faster. That at the very least puts it no where near the same level of Alliance Infantry.
-
Battalions here are pretty uninteresting, so I'm just going to post numbers.
Alliance infantry: 2/10
Alliance Duelist: 2/10
Alliance Brawlers: 5/10
Alliance Magic Corps: 5/10
Alliance Knights: 6/10
-
3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:
Not sure who'd be up to the solo bosskill, though...
It's an easy kill with the Thunderbrand, since you only need 34 atk and 8 AS to one round him. With +4 atk battalion and Rally Strength, anyone with 13 Strength could one round with so long as they can double him.
Or you could have Catherine smack him with a mace. That works pretty well too.
-
Kingdom Infantry: 6/10. Seiros Mercs who trade +5 hit for +1 prt. I'd say that's not worth, but it's still a good early battalion.
Kingdom Lancer 3/10. A +3 attack battalion that exclusively offers some some avoid, which is pretty bad. Jeralt Mercs are pretty much a better version of this and no one really wants the avoid.
Kingdom Brawlers: 5/10. Brawlers that switch avoid for crit. Neither a are winning trade, but +4 atk is still good
Kingdom Magic Corp: 5/10. Filler Magic Battalion that you use until you get something better. Resonant Ice is worse than fire, but I don't feel it's a huge difference in performance.
Kingdom Knights: 7/10. My preferred version of Knights. +5 Atk / +4 Prt are already very good for the early game, but I also really like Assault Troop over Blaze. Being able to use it twice at an actual reliable hit rate without having to rely on rally charm is a pretty big boon early, especially with maps like Chapter 5 if you like to aggro everything immediately like i prefer to do. +5 hit is also nice, but it's not really anything too substantial.
-
Empire Infantry: 2/10. Bad filler E rank battalion that no one should use.
Empire Warriors: 5/10. Brawlers without any of the avoid. Some people may take off points for that, but I won't. Random shot is also pretty unique, but not very useful.
Empire Brawlers: 5/10. A nice early +4 might battalion. It's certainly not going to win any awards, but it does the job just fine until something better roles around.
Empire Magic Corp: 5/10. Filler Magic Battalion that you use until you get something better. Gives +1 higher magic than Seiros, but I don't think it's worth putting it over since mages don't have strong earlygames.
Empire Archers: 8/10. About the only battalion worth discussing in this batch, i'd say, and I'd also say it's the best starting battalion period. It gives all the bonuses that are most valuable in the early game, and Fusillade is a really nice gambit when combined with Rally Charm. Using it on Ferdinand in combination with the +charm bracelet will allow him to get 95 gambit hit on most enemies by Chapter 3, which is really nice.
Empire Knights: 6.5/10. Fulfills the same purpose as Seiros Knights. Gives blaze and +5 charm to people with authority boon earlygame and then falls off. +1 Atk and Prt gives it a minor edge over Seiros.
-
1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:
The batallion also crucially comes with 5 charm at max level, helping your units land the attack.
I think you get another free copy of this batallion from somewhere in the midgame, but I'd sooner sell it than make use of it.
Minor Nitpick: Most battalions get their charm from their Authority rather than level. So a C Rank Battalion always gives 5 Charm even at level 1, which is handy early.
The other free copy of this battalion you can get is on Alois, who can only be recurited by Chapter 11. So yeah, that one is not going to see much use.
You must pick one character to give Knight as their Heart Seal class
in Fire Emblem Fates
Posted
Every combat unit should be regularly given tonics to reach one rounding benchmarks. You are given plenty of gold in conquest to do this, so it is not a substantial cost at all.
Ch 14 Kinshi Knight is capable of oneshoting every enemy on the map except the boss just with base stats. It's not difficult at all to feed them kills with shelter dancing, and they gain a good amount of exp thanks to their low internal level.
Again, not every enemy in Hoshido is a ninja. You are really overstimating the speed of enemies if you believe that Effie cannot double consistently.
Raider Naginata is from 10 Visitor Points from the rankings. Those are cumulative from every save file, so I don't think it's that unlikely that have one.