LoneRecon400
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Posts posted by LoneRecon400
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If you're going to talk about low investment builds, I'm surpised you didn't bring up Vengence. That combat art alone allows a unit to be able to ohko the overwhelming majority of enemies even on 0% growths.
You should probably also emphasize putting on Battalion Wrath on a dodgetank. The difference between one that has it and one that doesn't can be pretty massive.
Some nitpicks:
-Dimtri shouldn't go Bow Knight because that'll result in losing 70 hit when countering seige magic users with Retribution. Paladin is a nice simple class that'll enable him well enough.
-If you're going to get Claude to Alert Stance, you'd be better off using Battalion Wrath. Claude is the best B Wrath Dodgetank in the game due to fail naught giving a guaranteed way to dodge enemy gambits.
-Close Counter isn't really necessary on him, as Retribution allows Bow users to counter at 1 range.
-Charm growth really doesn't matter for dodgetank. Most enemies don't have high rank authority battalions to compete with your B Rank ones for a really long time. Even by the late game when they do, you can stack tea parties on them to reach the maximum avoid against them.
2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:Perhaps the biggest objection I'd have is that Dark Flier is the only offensive mage suggested. While Dark Flier is amazing, there's a huge cost to using a second because there's only one flying +mag battalion. A second Dark Flier is still potentially useful, but they'll be very utility-focused; even Lysithea in such a situation will do less damage than a bog-standard magic Lorenz.
I object to this. Even without Nuvelle, as long as a Dark Flier can double they can one round enemies pretty easily. Case in point.
3 hours ago, lenticular said:Manuela also belongs in this conversation, with her excellent speed and charm and her strength in flying and swords. Her drawbacks are her mediocre strength (same growth rate as Ingrid), her lack of access to Sword Avoid +20, and her late joining time. She's not as strong an option as some of the other units here, but she does the job and does it well.
How so? Manuela joins in Chapter 8 with only D in Flying and authority with no relevant weapon ranks or arts. It takes her longer than most other units to get going, and even once she does there's nothing to distinguish her from other units who could've been doing her job several chapters ago. Speed growth alone does not make for a good dodge tank.
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47 minutes ago, jonnymac110 said:
To your other question, no, I never went full enemy phase focus with a unit. I’ve never used a build like that before (this is my first FE game), and I wasn’t sure how it would keep pace with the stat scaling, so I fell back on player phase focus as my comfort zone. I’m assuming if you commit to enemy phase, you can make some busted builds.
Dodgetanks work pretty well regardless of stats. Even if you were stuck with Falcon Knight's base Speed of 25, if you added that with:
Avoid +10 (35) , Evasion Ring (45), Secret Transport Battalion (60), Alert Stance + (90), A Rank Support Adjutant (100).
That's 115 Avoid with Lance Prowess 5 when most endgame enemies struggle to break over 130 hit. And you can further add to a dodge tank's consistency with things like Cooking, Rallies, the Blessing Gambit, and of course extra Speed levels.
Combine that setup with say, Battalion Wrath, you can sweep through practically any enemy who doesn't have an offensive gambit or is a monster.
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I'm curious, why did you have Alert Stance + equipped on some units if you didn't intend to use those units as dodgetanks? That skill alone enables dodgetanking so long as you stack with other + Avoid boosts.
You didn't like using enemy phase set ups or something?
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2 hours ago, Jotari said:
Myrrh wouldn't fall off, like, objectively. Because as is you get her at end game already and she's still useful for end game. More useful that Seth. I know Seth has memetic amazingness, and his bases do carry him to end game. But he doesn't excel at end game even with his great growths. There units who are better than him at 20/20.
How does Seth not excel at the end game? FE8 Monsters are some of the weakest endgame enemies in the series, while you have access to weapons that match or even surpass fe4 holy weapons damage against them.
And what units out preform at 20/20 out outperform Seth on Average? Like the guy has better averages than even the recruits at 10/20/20. The 2-3 units that even do surpass him stat wise only do so marginally as well.
There is no way Seth is ever falling off in effectiveness in a game with enemies as weak such as Sacred Stones. I don't see how you could make the argument that Myrrh is better than him when all she has is extreme overkill for 25-50 battles against extremely weak enemies.
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1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
Lonato/Edelgard/Claude didn't try diplomacy, even though they have a good reason not to, but you seem to think the onus is on them to do so. But when Rhea does not try diplomacy against Lonato, you are immediately jumping to excuse her with "what could she have done?" She's the one in a position of privilege, so she has less to risk by trying. She isn't interested in trying because she'd rather make an example of Lonato and she tells you this explicitly.
As for what Rhea could have done to make him stop? I'd suggest publically confessing that she had had his son wrongfully executed for a crime he did not commit and officially exonerating him would go a long way towards placating the man. Of course, this is out of the question for her, because if she does this, she would probably be expected to resign.
I never claimed once that Chirstophe, Lonato, or the Westren Church should use diplomacy, because there is no middle ground of wanting someone dead and and the person in question wanting to stay alive alive.
I also don't think you are really thinking though what it would mean to expose Christophe deeds. The man was pushed to action by the Western Church to murder the head of religion. If that came out, that would spark some major tensions between the two sects by the general public. Considering how Duscar went, it makes sense to keep that information tight lipped.
And do you really think that telling the truth would really placate Lonato? Regardless of the reason, Rhea directly order the death of his son. When you assemble an army that you know has no chance of victory against your foe, I very much doubt that person is in a rational mindset.
You seem insistent on jumping the gun with assumptions. I never said anything about Edelgard or the church's positions, nor do I believe that Fodlan's situation could've been prevented just by talking it out. I just believe that it would have been a stronger narrative if they had Rhea gave out a clear position on crest reform rather than go all in on war without discussing it even once.
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It's OK. The stroy can be a little contrived and didn't engage in as much world building as I would have preferred, but the characters are fun enough enough that I could overlook it. It has some real shoutout characters like Viron and Gregor, who are still some of my favorite characters in the series.
The gameplay side of things are a lot less positive though. The unbalanced difficulties, poor map design, and annoying little things like risen blocking ships really make it unfun to go back and play through it again.
Overall the game is mixed bag, with replays if it again are pretty unlikely. But I do consider reading some of the support list and dlcs like Future Past from time to time.
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I hated it on release and still think it terrible. I didn't like the story, the characters didn't get as many supports as I would've liked, and the gameplay is just abysmal.
Even putting aside the map design, the dungeons were an absolute chore, the point and click sections don't really add anything of value, and it took out a lot of the neat stuff in Gaiden like cross route revival or the original speed ring.
I find Echoes to be by far the weakest entry in the series barring the original NES FE1. The game should have fixed the issues that Gaiden had, not embrace them and act that they were fine to release them in a game made 25 years later.
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1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
I think your interpretation makes the behavior of many characters in the game (everyone I listed) absurd. One or two of them could just be making poor decisions, but all of them?
Lonato is a good illustration of her lack of interest in diplomacy: yes, he was raising an army against her, but she had him hopelessly outmatched militarily. From such a position, she could have treated with him, prior to coming to blows. Instead she orders Catherine to kill him as an example to the students (read: future leaders of Fodlan) of the price to be paid for opposing her.
How were any of those characters that were listed justified in their actions? They were all confirmed to be manipulated by the Agarthans for their own uses, and they all decided that the best course of action was to put Rhea's head on a pike / steal crest stones for the power to do that. That is not a justifiable position. The church may cause problems, but none of the actions any of those characters took would have fixed any of the problems in Fodlan.
What Diplomacy could Rhea even engage in with Lonato to make him stop his rebellion? The man isn't even fighting for a cause, he's just lashing out in vengeance for Christophe. What exactly do you think she could've have said to stop a man driven and blinded by his own grief?
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3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
Given how we see the Central Church react to any sort of dissent over and over (Christophe Gaspard, Lonato, the Western Church, etc., etc.), the game clearly paints Rhea as someone with whom dialog is not meaningfully possible. That's the whole point of "I hope the students learned a valuable lesson of the fate that awaits those who point a sword at the the goddesss. "
Either you believe Lonato, Edelgard, Claude, the Western Church, and others, are just incredibly stupid for not trying to talk, or you notice the pattern here.
I mean, if anything that proves Jotari's point. I don't see how Rhea is the unreasonable one when Christophe tried to murder her, Lonato raised an army to murder her, and the Westren Church threatened to muder her (even if it was just as a feint.)
None of these people attempt to seek any alternatives to their courses of action and instead all insisted on coming out swinging as their first course of action. It would be one thing if Rhea actively antagonisized them or acted against their interests, but nothing like that happens.
Like Jotari says, there's not a case of Rhea actually having to negotiate with anyone and her acting unreasonable about it. Every singe case choses violence before she has even a chance to address their concerns.
1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:Bernadetta does not "absolutely burn to death" on that hill. She does not take damage, that is a fact. If the devs had wanted to show her burning to death, the event would have turned the ballista tile into a fire tile.
We're talking about a development team that took out Fistbreaker because they didn't want to code monster weapons as their own category of weapons. It would not being surprising in the slightest if they just couldn't be bothered making a burning balista tile.
Not that it matters much. Edelgard does whatever she feels like she has to make her ideals reality. I don't get how Bernadetta really counts against her comparative to everything else she does. Not evacuating Enbar in VW is a more apt comparison, but that's a blink and you'll miss it moment.
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Even in SS, Cyril is still a pretty good unit.
Getting him to Vengance will allow him to one shot even endgame units even without any class masteries. That's not bad for a Filler Unit.
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It's applied according to Marcia and Rolf's support in FE9. Rolf wounds his hand training and actively yells out in pain when Marcia uses a vulnerary on him.
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5 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:
-Snip-
To nitpick:
Impregnable Wall is actually a pretty good way of making enemies not using their gambits. If enemies double a unit with the gambit in effect, they'll always attack normally rather than use a gambit.
Seal skills that occur on enemy phase also are not applied on the next player phase. (not that many enemies have seal skills)
To rebuttal:
Impregnable Wall is worth using even on routes where it's attached to medicore battalions because of how it help solve some really annoying elements of maps. It can really help with luring same turn reinforcements, avoid taking damage from seige weapons (especially potent for vengence users), and makes it so that any unit can be left in the range of any enemy without having to be worried about being one rounded.
And if you go out of your way to avoid quest and aux battles, the gambit becomes instrumental being able to master classes in a timely fashion.
Overall it just a great way of dealing with enemies when they pretty cleanly start to 1-2 round your units.
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Garon actually doesn't attack on Enemy Phase even if he can kill someone, he just always spams the dragon viens next to him.
The fact that no one really knows about this really says a lot of how difficult he is to take down.
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9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:
Tbf, the only real worries on that map are some immobile long-range mages.
It's FE9. Enemies are absolutely chumps in that game.
And that's no exception here, as a base Rolf would be able to tank a seige tome with a Pure Water.
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It takes Byleth 3560 Brawling exp to go from E+ -> S+ brawling.
In a Commoner class they gain +3 Brawling Skill for each round of combat. 3 times 5 rounds of combat per is 15 skill exp a turn.
3560 skill exp / 15 per turn equals 238 turns. So you'd only need 3 aux battles to pull it off.
You can tell that this was grinded rather than NG+ as:
1. Byleth has an odd amount Authority since there's no reason to go to S Rank Authority.
2. There's no adavanced battalions like ones from paralogues.
3. No one else has abnormal ranks except for Byleth, Lysithea, Balthus, and Constance.
4. They did the same broken weapon trick with Balthus to get Lysithea and Constance up. You can get Adjutants as early as Chapter 3 if you rig for 5 star greenhouse seeds for Proffessor Ranking.
Getting Lysithea up to Warp ain't hard since she has Mastermind. That gives +6 Skill Exp a battle, so she can get S+ Faith from almost a single Aux battle.
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Yeah, you don't need to go that deep into aux battles. The challange is plenty beatable without doing so. I was just explaining how you could feasibly gain such skill ranks in such a short amount of time.
I will say that on casual playthroughs though, it's much faster at rasing skill ranks than actually utilizing the monestary. I'd would've gotten burnt out on this game completely had I not used this trick to avoid the monestary.
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You could just give the grinded unit a proper weapon in their inventory. Or you could deploy a flier or a unit with stealth, but that doesn't fly on a Commoner only run.
DLC Aux Battles gives a random stat booster for every battle you fight. If you battle twice for straight 50 weeks, you're bound to get a lot of stats boosters.
Admittedly, that doesn't answer the question of 84 Magic Lysithea. That's literally two point away from her magic cap. My guess is they utilized the month reset glitch for that one.
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Its actually pretty easy to get those skills ranks. In fact, it's what some speedruns of the game on Maddening actually use.
Enemies in Aux battles don't get a bunch of bonus levels like they do in main chapter maps, so they're a lot weaker. With enough defense stacking (Battalions, Shields, Def +2, Terrain, Armor Knight Cert) you can take zero damage from enemies. If you then equip a broken weapon, you can then lure enemies to areas where your units aren't able to hit them while they hit your units for zero. Here's a decent example of this.
From there it's just a matter of mashing attack. That Bernadetta gains +3 Lance exp per battle and could have +5 if she were a Cavalier. It takes 3300 wexp to go from C Lances to S+ Lances. 5 rounds of combat per turn times 5 skill exp per round is 25 skill exp, which means it only takes 132 turns to get S+ Rank.
So you'd need to do this on 2 maps thanks to 99 turn cap, but it's perfectly doable. It's actually much faster to raise units this way rather than traditionally using the monestary, which is why the speedrun used it to get A Rank Authority on Dimtri by Chapter 2.
Also, that Commoner only run did finish. It's just not in the playlist. Here's a look of what endless stream of DLC aux battles does to an endgame.
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3 hours ago, Imuabicus said:
I didn´t realize this at the beginning, but TH would probably be immediately done - no weapon rank gains no reclasses, you´be playing the game with 4 move iron weaponry and a relic if you can get that far.
Recruiting is always on the table. A combination of Shamir, Catherine, and Seteth would be enough to get through most of game. They'd just get walled at the endgame without class masteries though.
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48 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
Is this reliant on cooking, skills (besides Lance Prowess 4 / Axe Prowess 3), combat arts, etc.? I'd be pretty impressed if 3H Maddening can actually be defeated under the rules set out in the original post. 3H is definitely one of those games where a surprising number of things are possible, but I feel like this is too much to take off the table. Interested in your thoughts.
It's taking into consideration cooking and class masteries. The cooking can be cut, but losing out on Class Masteries would make three houses just flat out impossible. You'd just have no way to beat the end game bosses without them.
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Depends on the the game. A lot of 0% Growths runs in the later part of the series rely heavily on stat boosters to make up the stat difference, especially temporary ones like rallies and tonics. But a lot of the earlier ones have some pretty deflated stats like FE3, so it's pretty doable.
If you want an idea of what a run would look like, here's an example of a 0% Growths byleth soloing VW without statboosters. They used Wyvern class bases on Byleth, but Seteth could just be used instead with how high his bases are.
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The Gold is easily more valuable than +2 Speed. Weapons always matter a lot more than stats in Echoes.
Clive is a good example this. The +2 Speed would allow him to be double Cavaliers with his borderline Speed, but he'd still be unable double Cavaliers with a Steel Lance and prevent him from one rounding.
If you instead opted to make a Forged Ridersbane, he can straight up one shot all the Cavaliers in Act 3 even at base level.
That's pretty much the power of forges in a nutshell. The Killer Bow, Silver Sword, and Steel Lance make an incredible difference that the stat boost isnt really useful, especially with how most enemies are pretty slow.
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33 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:
In my experience, though, they won't attack from 2-range. They'll attack from 3-range, even if it kneecaps their Hit rate. I don't know why, but enemy bow-users seem to be programmed to attack from as far away as possible. I'm sure they'll attack from 2 spaces if it's their only option, and maybe if they have 0 hit at 3 or 4 tiles away (not sure about that one). I dunno, maybe this has just been my weird experience?
It takes really long on NG Maddening to even hit Range +1. As for Hit +20, that's assuming you went Archer, which I'm not assuming is the case for him in a full mage build (granted, Hit +20 is a good skill for him). I would run Reason Prowess, Bowbreaker, Black Magic Avoid +20, Magic +2, and Fiendish Blow. Probably sub in Range +1 for Magic +2 when it becomes available.
Enemies generally like avoiding damage, but being able to counterattack at three range makes them prioritize hit in my experience.
I mean, we're including DLC in this discussion. Sauna makes speeds up the acquisition of S Rank quite significantly. I was able to S Rank on a Dark Flier Dorothea by Chapter 14 on SS.
+2 Magic is pretty vital for Sylvain since he's pretty borderline on a lot of one shots. It can make the difference between having to switch from a +1 range staff to a Magic Staff for a ome shot in the midgame. Even the late game it can make difference with how bulky some enemies get chip damage can on occansion not be emough. It's never worth unequpping I find.
And there's really no reason not to go Archer. Mocking bird only provide +10 Hit, which really isn't enough when magic Sylvain has no practical way or increasing hit by himself due to not really being able to equip the accuracy ring.
Here's a question: On what chapter do you think this Bow Breaker setup is most useful on?
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Yeah, I'd also have to say Dark Knight Sylvain dodge tanking bows is not an effective niche.
For one, it's just not consistent enough. 50 avoid may sound good on paper when you can add it, but it wont work well in pratice. Even if you included mocking bird thieves battalion and added in DK Sylvains average level 40 Speed of 26, that's only 86 Avoid against bow users. Chapter 14 snipers all ready have 126 Hit. A 40% Hit Rate isn't exactly nothing. And it grows worse as more enemy snipers will be able to consistently double Sylvain.
While you could engage them at three range for a -30 Hit penalty, that'd require some really specific positioning that's not really convient. If you're dedicating 2 skill slots to dealing with only one specific type of enemy, you shouldn't have to rely on specific positioning to be consistent.
Which also beings up the other issue: skill slots. Taking up 2 skill slots on something that's not effective on enemies is quite the ask. Even if you went pure mage Sylvain, between Magic +2, Fiendish Blow, Prowess, Range +1, and Hit +20, you really wouldn't want to drop any of those.
Not to mention, these are snipers. They're not difficult enemies to one round on Player Phase so the chip damage on enemy phase isn't really that helpful.
Dark Knight Sylvain might be better than Mir is giving it credit for, but Dodgetanking bow using enemies is certainly not an effective niche Dark Knight Sylvain has.
Three Houses Character Builds Dump
in Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Posted
You could write about how Vengence is the only thing a unit needs. They don't need class masteries, weapon ranks, or even levels or good weapons to be able to one shot 90% of enemies. The fact they can also easily use battalions with bad stats but good utitly like Impregnable Wall is icing on the came.
Here's a good practical demonstration of Battalion Wrath.