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Burklight

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Everything posted by Burklight

  1. I left off the bonus units entirely for that reason. For Byleth, I'm not really worried about catching up or anything like that. Byleth is fantastic from the moment you get him. I also don't think Byleth should be hurt for the runs you decide to not recruit them. I do think that contributing zero for 10-12 chapters should bar you from being S rank. Even when you get Byleth, Byleth isn't obviously better than Claude/Edelgard/Ferdinand, so the idea that Byleth would be so much better to make up for being absent that long doesn't make sense to me. I'm not oppose to making it route specific, but I don't think that would actually solve that issue. The units that I ding for availability issues have the same issue regardless of what route they're on. The only outlier I can think of is Jeritza who is significantly better on SB and AG. But even on SB he's competing with Ferdinand as a lance user. If anything I might have him too high.
  2. I don't think I've ever seen a tier list that didn't take availability into account. If we removed all context, he'd probably be mid/low S. I'm not convinced removing all context is correct.
  3. I'll give the deployment restraints some thought. Imo, Byleth shouldn't be S rank because he/she is absent for 2/3rds of the game. Sharing sword preference with Shaz doesn't help, but I'd have placed Byleth in S rank without a second thought if that was the only issue.
  4. So maybe I wasn't clear about what my issue was a few posts ago, so let me try again. I'll take a fairly extreme example. I don't think anyone would argue that Catherine is a better sword user than Felix. Felix is clearly superior in almost every measurable category. However, if you decide for whatever reason that you're going to use Catherine instead, and you're already using Shaz because you have to, you're either going to class Felix into something else, or more likely, not use him. In the scenario where Felix goes unused, Felix is going to be contributing literally zero to your run. That would make him a C tier unit for that run in my current thinking. So I'm sort of skipping the step where they're ranked low because they probably aren't getting used. Do you think it would make more sense to ignore deployment restraints and any context and just look at them in a vacuum? That seems less helpful to me, but that seems to be where most of the criticism is coming from.
  5. I promise I'm not falling into that trap, I've already tried a bunch of non recommended things that usually worked out fairly well. I just thought as a first pass it would be too complicated to rank every unit as their "best" class instead of their preferred class, as that seems like a whole other can of worms. I'm open to moving people around based on non recommended builds tho, have a few times already. Dedue I'm more suspicious of, however. Wouldn't he need an A rank invert attack/defense bow with Absorb Def to have damage numbers even comparable to other units with actual damage skills? For that matter, has anyone figured out if Dual Onslaught does anything weird if you use an invert weapon ability? Finding a build you like playing is great, but that doesn't mean it's as good as others that are blatantly better.
  6. Updated Lindhardt and Petra to B. The issue I'm currently having is how to address the large number of units who fall into the category of "If you decide to play this unit, it will be fine, but they are objectively worse than 2-3 other units who do the same thing, and if you use the 2-3 other, it will see zero combat for the entire run." I think those units should go into C, because the random support you're using is doing more for you than the unit on the bench, despite the fact that they are usable if you decide to. There seems to be disagreement on that.
  7. I think I'm starting to see a theme here with HKs. You're probably correct about Lindhardt needing to be somewhere in B. As for Petra, I'll admit I don't have very much first hand experience using her. Other than availability, what sets her apart from Yuri? And to a lesser extent, what sets her apart from all the semi weak mages who would rather be a Trickster than a HK?
  8. Agreed. Also, the way I framed B tier is "does their job, but can't really do other people's jobs too." If you take 4 units who can all do their jobs fine and switch between them, you could for sure clear maddening without too much issue. But you could do it significantly faster with fewer headaches if you used S and A characters. Also, there's probably some more instances like @Sire pointed out with Flayn where when used in the correct class, they probably don't belong in C or B.
  9. NG+ is a faceroll curbstomp for hard mode. Less so for maddening. Ferdinand has a lot going for him aside from his speedup. Name Drop is one of the better passives, and on top of that he has access to Luna, Lifeforce, IF, WA, OT. His relics also offset any self damage he might have. He'd probably still be a contender for S rank even without his speedup.
  10. Ingrid does have Flare, which is potentially better than Luna on a DK. She also has the option of being 100% stagger immune, which lets her braindead steamroll things more easily than pretty much any lance user in AG other than maybe Dimitri. I'm not totally convinced she belongs in S tier, but I'm fairly sure she's the best AG lance user. I think comparing Ingrid and Sylvain's relics is kind of a wash, because each would prefer to use their own, probably.
  11. I may have slightly underrated Sylvain. I can see him moving to below to just below Lorenz. He's probably better than Jeritza at least. I don't care about resources, so I agree that Flayn (HK) shouldn't be in C, but I'm not sure how much higher for the same reasons as Sylvain and Rodrigue being AG locked. Throwing her in the middle of B for the time being. The problem with AG is that they give a bunch of lance users who in isolation probably all belong somewhere in A tier, but because they're all competing for spots probably shouldn't all go into A tier.
  12. So the reason I used "competing with too many units" a few times is because I can't think of hardly any instances where you'd want multiple units of the same weapon type deployed as playable characters. When you do, it's usually because they're so much better than alternatives that weapon triangle disadvantage would be less bad than having to use someone under leveled or with a bad skillset. Rodrigue and Sylvain are both missing Luna, IF, and Lifeforce. Sylvain at least has Dual Onslaught. That makes their damage output significantly worse than every lance user I placed higher. Sylvain is probably better than Lorenz due to his personal, but there's almost never a time you'd rather use Sylvain than Dimitri or Ingrid. Lorenz doesn't have that problem. I have Ferdinand in S.
  13. Attempting to get something close to a baseline unit tier list. Criteria: Maddening Mode, S ranking everything, do all side objectives, playing quickly. It's assumed all units have access to all passive skills they can learn. Assumed all units are over level 100 with at least 90 in all offensive stats they would want. Restrictions: Relic/Sacred weapons are assumed to be the best weapons you can have. This isn't true, but it would make this way too complicated for the time being. For now, lets not worry about Merc Whistle items. Every unit has access to all Artes/Spells they either learn naturally, or can learn easily (A rank support with someone who has it). For example, we can assume Hapi has Dark Spikes (A rank with Shaz) but we cant assume she has Luna. I'm for the most part going to assume that everyone is in their recommended class unless there is a clear reason why they're better in a different one. I haven't tried every unit in every class, so if I missed one, kindly point it out. For availability, I didn't penalize anyone for only being usable in one route (Claude, Edelgard). I did penalize units for joining late (Byleth, Yuri, Catherine). As a final note, I heavily factored in deployment slots because it's unlikely you would ever want to deploy 4 units of the same weapon type. Because of this, I'm somewhat biased against sword users because they're competing with Shaz who is force deployed. Shaz Tier - Force deployed, able to do anything, can teleport Shaz S - units in S can easily solo entire maps regardless of weapon triangle. These are the units you want to be player controlled. Claude (BK or Barbarossa)- Best skill list, great weapon type, Wind God is broken Edelgard (Fetters or Dromi or WL) - excellent skill list, excellent personal Ferdinand - excellent skill list, great personal ability Hilda - Edelgard but with a worse personal skill Felix - Excellent skill list, great personal ability, but users swords Ingrid (DK) - maybe should be at the top of A, but feels significantly stronger than everyone in A A - units in A are very good at what they're suppose to be good at an don't have too much trouble at things they're suppose to be bad at, or have excellent utility. These units may not always be player controlled. Byleth - Availability issues and sword user or would be higher Dimitri - Maybe should be S tier? Feels weaker than everyone currently in S Hubert - Probably the best player controlled mage Balthus - Very good WM, money making utility Lysithea - Dark Assist, probably the best Gremory Annette - Rally Deluxe, Wind Assist Seteth - Competing with Annette for best AG Axe user, and she wants to be a support unit Lorenz - Probably best GW Lance user Sylvain - Competing with too many lance users Marianne (Trickster)- Ice Assist, good personal ability, decent combat Raphael - Rally Str Caspar - Would be higher if not Competing with Edelgard Jeritza - Too much competition with lance users where he is available or would be higher B - units in B do their job or have passable utility, and not much else. These are typically AI controlled. Dorothea - Lightning Assist Bernadetta - Ice Assist Mercedes - Light Assist Constance - Light Assist Flayn (HK) Petra - Yuri, but better availability Leonie - Could potentially see moving to around where Lorenz is Linhardt (HK) Catherine - Availability issues, sword user, missing key damage skills Holst - Sword user and missing key damage skills Hapi - Solid Gremory, but Gremory isn't very good Yuri - Late recruit, uses swords Shamir - Missing key damage skills Jeralt - Missing key damage skills Rodrigue - Competing with too many lance users C - units in C struggle to do their job or have bad utility. These are either AI controlled or benchwarmers. Dedue Ashe Ignatz Manuela Monica Feedback is welcome. If my criteria doesn't make sense or you think it should be changed, I'm open to that feedback as well.
  14. Wild Abandon doesn't do self damage. You're confusing it with Impossible Feat.
  15. Death is less likely of a problem than just losing an S rank. If you don't care about getting S ranks then WA should move up the tier list quite a bit.
  16. Well, if we're assuming this is for maddening difficulty, it's probably a safe assumption that you're on your 3rd-4th NG+ clear. By that time you should have access to most/all skills, and probably have the resources to get 100-120 in all offensive stats for units you're using. If your assumptions are different I could see how you would come to different conclusions. Luna is probably somewhere in B tier and not A if the unit unsure what skill to use only has 60 luck. It's clearly near the top of A if you have 120 luck.
  17. Maybe it would be a decent idea to lay out the criteria you're using for the tier list. Are you not assuming min maxed scenarios? Or just the average of all possible scenarios? Is it super generalized? I almost feel like a tier list would be more useful if it was for units and not for skills. I may make a first pass at that later today, actually. There's too many edge cases where such and such niche skill happens to be good on X unit. At least half the units in the game have some edge case There are probably some situations where you wouldn't want to. Like on Lysithesa. I'm struggling to come up with a physical damage unit who doesn't learn Luna who doesn't really wish they had it. Dimitri would be significantly better if he had Luna, for example.
  18. It's S ran for sure in a min maxed scenario. At 120 luck, it's closer to a 20% damage increase. But it's actually 20% and doesn't fall into the diminishing returns category. If you're comparing it to other skills that will give you diminishing returns that are also S rank, it should be looked at as having 50-70% increase damage depending on how many other damage skills you're using.
  19. Burst of Resolve. Also, dex is a damage stat. Not nearly as important as Str/Mag, but if you're trying to min/max, dex should be on the list.
  20. 1. Yes. The extras section after the title screen lets you view all support conversations. 2. No. 3. Whatever article you read is wrong. You get Gatekeeper near the start of your third route. Difficulty doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure I did my third route on hard.
  21. They are quite generous with stat boosting items. But you can still farm money more easily than stat boosters. Plus, a lot of times the class you want to actually use someone in isn't the same as the one they want to level in. Hilda, for example, really wants dex and lck, neither of which WL helps with. I waited for a +str growth month, classed her as a sniper and went from 1-120. Saved quite a few stat boosters.
  22. I'll second this. In addition to this, one thing I've found myself doing is waiting until the month where "slightly increase the chance of gaining ____ when leveling up," resetting someone's level to 1, putting them in a class that compliments their growths, and then going from 1-120. While totally worth the money if you're trying to min/max stats, this costs about 450k. Adds up very quickly.
  23. Counterbreak may not make it go into negatives, but Luna may. I went back and looked over my data collection from when I attempted to solve this back on the first page and OF COURSE I stopped at ~70 luck which would have put it at 0. If it doesn't go lower than 0, you would expect 90-100 luck to have identical damage numbers as 70 luck vs a 7 defense enemy, right?
  24. That makes more sense. Still doesn't explain what happens with negative numbers tho. You think instead of diving it just starts to multiply instead? That would be pretty funny.
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