ApocaLips

Without commenting on the rest of the post, note that gremory provides +5 mag while mortal savant provides only +2. So mortal savant with swordfaire/tomefaire is only doing 2 more damage than gremory in those circumstances. My two cents on the topic overall is that Dorothea has pretty mediocre growths across the board, so I’m much more interested in a class that emphasizes her utility/great spell list over straight combat. That points me to gremory most of the time, and dancer some of the time depending on how my team shakes out. If I want combat and movement on her for some reason, I’d go dark knight instead of mortal savant, which is just kinda better at both for her. I second that there’s not a big benefit to using Levin sword when you already have range 1-3 about as often as you’ll want it on a healer with growths like hers.

Completely up to you, but I might suggest rotating bi-weekly. 3-4 days is really enough for the conversation to run, especially for characters like Petra that are pretty straightforward.

Putting aside that the critical hit percentages can get very high in this game, that the comment is irrelevant because I mentioned it solely to explain that the math proposed was incorrect, and that saying another type of weapon user does reasonably well in a certain circumstance in no way impacts whether something else has “no niche”.... I find the comment on FE9 to be the most peculiar and entertaining part of this post. As you (and I) said, FE9 paladins were very strong (although part of this was that they tended to have overall better stat caps than most any other class, but that’s beside the point). IMO, they were generally way more OP than WL are here. Yet even in that game, no one was seriously saying you shouldn’t use Nephenee, Shinnon, etc. What’s been going on here is the equivalent of whenever someone is talking about Nephenee, someone else interjects with pages upon pages of what boils down to ‘Nephenee isn’t optimal because she’s not Oscar.’ This is honestly not much of an exaggeration, if at all.

I am literally responding to a post from hours ago where he claimed “Gauntlets kind of don't have a niche past the early game.“ It took this much work to get to a point where he admits that actually, there are instances where they outperform other weapon types. Practically every single one of his posts boils down to ‘X isn’t optimal because WL can do the same thing but better.’ That is, honestly and truly, an accurate description of the vast majority of his posts, and it is very often counterproductive. He only just now conceded that 12-WL teams aren’t optimal, and only because someone directly confronted him with the absurdity of that suggestion. It is, frankly, way too much work to have a conversation in these forums about anything other than WLs when the same few posters jump in and spam gospel about them for pages. (FYI, I’ve been playing FE games a very long time and have seen some seriously broken shit. WLs are good in this game, but are being significantly overrated. I’d dare say they’re not even better than FE9 paladins.)

Yeesh, more of this... Your example doesn’t take into account the impact of critical hits and is really off for that reason alone, but even playing by your rules, I’m sure everyone talking about gauntlets is aware that when you have multiple attacks, enemy defense (as well as damage boosts) factors in multiplicatively. However, this only results in other weapons outdamaging gauntlets when the difference between the might of the weapons exceeds the difference between the units attack (without might factored in) and the enemy's relevant defense. This is not common in a game with deathblow and faire skills, which your oversimplified example fails to account for. And that’s also ignoring the very real possibility that a gauntlet user quads due to reduced weapon weight while the other user fails to double. Anecdotally, my competent gauntlet users haven’t had issues dealing with armor knights. In the rare circumstance the situation you describe exists, aura knuckles usually can still nab a ohko. Glad we got to the point where you’ve shifted from claiming gauntlets have no niche to “freely admitting” they have situations where they outperform in the endgame (apparently early game doesn’t matter anymore?). Not that it will push you off of your bizarre agenda to spread the gospel of WL, but for the viewers at home, I’ll remind that there are plenty of chapters with a significant amount of beasts, and, if I dare, suggest that maybe, just maybe, it’s worth adding one unit to your team that can cleanly deal with them rather than the Nth wyvern lord. And that’s also ignoring the fact that gauntlet users can crush some problematic bosses, which alone warrants consideration for a slot.

If you seriously think the existence of training weapons defeats the niche gauntlets hold, I don’t think we’re even playing the same game. I’m not very interested in continuing this game of ‘name a few drawbacks, ignore benefits, claim X is bad.’ There are plenty of enemies that have high enough hp/defenses that gauntlets are very welcome - they deal with those quickly and free up actions for your team. I’d certainly prefer one of those to the 10th axe-using flier.

The assertion that gauntlets have “possibly even no” utility on enemy phase is such hyperbole that it could not have been made in good faith. Anyone who’s ever used a decent gauntlet user knows this is not the case. Gauntlets have a variety of benefits and drawbacks. If you’re going to only list the negatives (which every weapon type has) and ignore the obvious benefits (e.g., much lower weight allowing you to equip heavy equipment, high player phase damage potential in a player-phase-oriented game, especially early on when other units struggle to kill), the conversation is not going to be productive. On axes, axe prowess gives more hit than any other, so that consideration largely falls off, and I haven’t had issues with weight you’re describing.

I think they did basically take the concept from Echoes, but in Echoes dread fighters were OP. They probably wanted to adjust them downward, but they obviously went too far and gutted a chunk of the class’s identity in the process. Wow, that’s a serious hot take. War Master’s +5 str vs Mortal Savant’s +1 str/+2 mag, 1 extra speed, way better growths all around (with a whopping 20% gap in speed being a highlight), better HP (very relevant to Felix), +20 crit ... might want to give that one a little more thought. Also, disagree that axes and gauntlets are “the two worst weapon types in the game.” Not even sure where that’s coming from to be honest, so it’s difficult to respond. If you have an A in one weapon rank and a C or C+ in the other (don’t remember offhand), you have about a 50% shot to qualify. Odds are good you’ll pass in the 3-4 tries you get over the course of a month. Almost every male physical unit runs through Brigand anyway, so the requirements are not hard to meet.

This is pretty much exactly what I meant by balance- or design-intent-altering decisions that will probably never be implemented through a minor patch. Nor would I want it to. These changes would erase most of the opportunity cost system IS has built as to how you spend your free days. Hopefully they do not do anything like that. Lots of other good suggestions here though. It seems very feasible to make the system better at remembering how your adjutants were assigned and being better at allowing you to swap things as you earn them rather than having to memorize for the next time the menu pops up.

The poll results for Dorothea seem on track. She has crappy growths but an excellent spell list filled with low use but high utility spells - thoron, physic, Agnea’s arrow, meteor. You thus want to pick a class that maximizes her utility/spell list over her mediocre combat potential. Dancer is a great option to have the spells handy if the situation arises but to also let her have great utility when her low move or crappy stats force her into an awkward position. Gremory is also a good option (my preferred choice) because it gives you another shot of meteor, more shots of thoron/arrow, and lets you use physic a bit more liberally, playing up the utility of her spell list. Dark knight is an option if you don’t have another magic nuke on your team, but there are plenty of units that do that better, and Dorothea does utility better than she does combat.

Agreed. The warmaster route (with a brief detour for death blow) makes him consistently great throughout the game. Early game with gauntlets, he will have no problem killing things thanks to the benefit of his personal skill and crest being multiplied by repeated attacks. At a time where plenty of good units have a hard time one-rounding things, Felix deletes most any enemy no questions asked. Mid game, he hits his peak, where he picks up death blow and his relic, which adds an insane amount of tankiness. The extra HP from the warmaster line is very welcome here. He becomes a go-to unit to safely pull mobs, all while being a trump card to ensure you can one-round bosses and monsters where your other units might not have the damage to do so. Late game he stumbles a little due to his personal becoming essentially irrelevant and his negative authority, but he picks up the heal move from gauntlets as well as fistfaire and crit+20. He thus remains much more tanky than your fliers and other frontline units, while still keeping a valuable niche in being able to deal much more damage than most units. I found him key to bursting down high-hp monsters and monster bosses, among others, during player phase. That route makes him amazing during a period where several good units struggle while still being well above average and contributing for valuable niches endgame. Highly recommend. I ran him as swordmaster/mortal savant, and it just didn’t emphasize his strengths as well. It wasn’t worth trading these listed benefits for four shots of a range 1-3 spell, especially when you can get to C swords just as easily for Levin Sword (or Bolt Axe, since you’re invested in that weapon anyway for brigand/war master requirements, although hand axe and short axe are fine as a ranged option).

Yes, that’s another big one I’d like to see. A short window when the win condition is satisfied to mash DP would be fine.

Topic, list quality of life changes you’d like to see patched in here. Obviously, the more minor the change and the more consistent the change is with the current gameplay/design, the more likely it is to happen. Balance changes and class and character additions probably warrant separate discussion. My two big ones are: - If you fail a certification, please don’t have it expend the seal. You can already reload the save to get the seal back (the test results won’t change), so all this does is save you a load screen when you fail. - Strike the fail chance on teatime invitations. Again, you can save/reload for this, so it doesn’t really affect anything other than saving players resets. I also don’t really see the need for the mechanic, as the invitation costs activity points. No need to frustrate a conscious decision to spend time to build supports, especially when gift spam already exists.

Swarm Z is only one less weight than Miasma, and the rest of the spells are on the heavy end for both of them, so not really. They also have the same base speed. Don’t mind me though, I’m just overly protective of Hubert. I think he’s much, much better than most give him credit for.

Huh? Hubert’s speed growth is 45. Lysithea’s is only 5 higher and I’ve never heard anyone call her slow.

Upgrade bolt axe for 1-3 range (same with levin sword, magic bow gets 2-3 range). I haven’t tried it myself, but no other wyvern lord setup I’ve heard of is getting 1-3 range and targeting RES while keeping the benefit of axefaire. That’s a lot going on - I wouldn’t knock it before trying it, especially when someone is saying they have and it works.

I’ve personally given up on engaging with that poster. Each of his responses are long, but they essentially all boil down to ‘+1-2 move and flying canto trump everything else in this game,’ when of course they don’t for the reasons you mentioned as well as many others that have been pointed out to him across several threads. This isn’t FE7, parking your best unit in the middle of the map and having everything suicide on it doesn’t always work.

I prefer Paladin, but Great Knight is better on him than on many other characters. The main drawback of that class - the speed loss - is less of an issue because he has swift strike, so he’ll double on player phase regardless. On the other hand, defense is very welcome on him - combined with his avoidance passive, it makes him exceptionally tanky and helps keep his HP high enough to recover off any damage with the combination of his two relics (which together restore quite a bit of hp every turn). Wyvern lord gives up lancefaire+swift strikes which leaves a lot of damage on the table in the mid game, and plenty of other units make for a just as good if not better wyvern lord. Ferdinand is a top candidate to use several of the exceptional lances, especially the spear of assal. I’d rather run him in a niche that few other units readily fill than make him the Nth wyvern lord.

This is pretty much what I’m talking about. It simply hasn’t been the case in my experience that the units we’re shoehorning into wyvern lord can suddenly one round everything in the game - and certainly not at every moment throughout the game. I’ve had multiple turns were I really needed to one-round a 80/100 HP monster health bar with various defensive abilities, and guess who did it? (Hint: Not my pegasus knight.) I agree that even the worst units in this game are usable, but that’s not really my point here.

I just made an account to say I agree wholeheartedly. I also cannot comprehend why someone would give up Lancefaire, at least in the midgame, on a unit with a lance-only double lion when it represents ten frontloaded damage by itself. I’m obviously a new poster, but I’ve been playing FE regularly since FE7. Honestly, I disagree with a lot of what I’m seeing in this thread. There seems to be insane amounts of tunnel vision on fliers and mages with high mag/speed and very specific criteria for their spell list. The game is balanced a lot better than that. War Master gives +5 damage and 20 crit on a weapon type that inherently has the brave property. Its damage potential is way higher than I’m used to from fire emblems over the last decade, and it’s not even really being considered because it has two less move and no canto in a game where you have multiple shots of stride per map? Has anyone even tried a war master Felix with his relic? Back to your point, I think Ferdinand is an insane unit. He has two relics that regen his HP, which synergizes with his passive. His evasion and mitigation are alright in isolation, but having both is worth more than the sum of either alone, and he ends up being quite tanky in a nonobvious way. On top of all of that, he gets swift strike, usually before part 2, which alone means his offense is superb (brave effect but able to use weapons with extra might, and the art itself even gives some might!), and he only needs to worry about speed enough to make sure he doesn’t get doubled. I love the discussion in this thread, but I really think a lot of people need to break away from the preconceived notion that everyone needs to be a wyvern lord/bow knight and take a look at certain units with a more open mind. This game has plenty of other stuff that would have been outright broken in any other entry in the series. I see a lot of value in and have had success with plenty of units and classes that are being overlooked here.