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There's nothing logical about the scene at all. It's the most inconsistent thing that happens in the entire game. and completely slaps the face of people like Catherine and Rhea cuz it's so out of character. especially with Rhea who doesn't want a genocide to happened again but it's doing the exact same thing that happened to her. which makes the scene even more confusing because they were just told to set the place on fire. Unless I'm confused and missed the scene where she said keep the citizens in their houses. Because they should be trapped only by the virtue of the fire. one of the biggest complaints I have is that they want them keep all of the Lords to clean. They couldn't even justify rhea hating humans Even at her worse she never said she hates humans. which comes right into the face of this scene that makes her commit the same thing that she hates the most in the world. The writers of this story wanted to have their cake and eat it too. especially with edelgard's route where they have to justify her going to war with her as a villain. That's why Dimitri and Rhea act so different in the route they have to justify them somehow being villainous and they couldn't even do that. just like how edelgard said she's going to take over the world in the blue lion route.

Typically I'd call it inconsistent writing but there's actually good reasons behind that. Lorenz flat out says he still has to convince his father not to help the empire because they might get attacked. Ashe I don't know much about because he spent most of his time on the bench. What does this have to do with the comment I made? Like I'm serious like this has no reason being here I'm talking about the lie and not the church. This seems to be the biggest point here man. I'd like to put down that yes as a human being I have the right to question the concept of friendship between people. I mean look at the Black eagle supports all of them have coming together moments except with Edelgard. there was a giant wall between them that no one ever is able to get past except the main character with his magic superpower. I mean I'm only realistically like that for the Lords they're all just too happy-go-lucky for me. no one is truly a villain except those who slither it's just another good guy versus Good guys scenario. and I'm saying the LIE is bad more in the way of the Black eagle students rather than the people this is a perfect chance for her to show weakness towards them and try to have comfort with them and rally together to come out stronger. I mean the Black eagle house just skips the reunions entirely. they're either completely different camp they literally only follow the teacher. the only reason they stayed with the empire outside of the Black eagle route is because it's their home and well special enemies. I mean they really should have had a reunions battle for the crimson flower route blue lions are the ones who should never have stuck together. And the keep with the thread I still think the black eagles Ashe and Lorenz are the only people who would literally leave their house because of circumstance. I still don't understand why anyone would think Lysithea what willingly join the empire if it wasn't for the teacher.

well you're not wrong I hate all of the Lord so technically I'm only neutral in the fact that I dislike them all. Okay the two characters you just mentioned were forced to fight on the empire side. ashe because his family. Lorenz Is without a doubt the most force character to be on the empire side. Literally admitting he doesn't want to be there. Yes a very much terrible lie used as an excuse just to make people hate the church more. also the same developers who told us that they left a bunch of hints inside of edelgard's route so we wouldn't trust her because she might be lying to us. It sounds like a deliberate ploy to create tension. Also she never told anyone about those who slittered in the dark until way at the end. she blatant was lying about them. That's two lies with the price of one. none of them are friends they aren't friends by truth or by love or anything. The only house that has true friends throughout the whole game is the blue lion house. And they're the most dysfunctional group of them all but you can argue that none of them would ever leave their king.

I never said that she sees them as tools I said that their relationship is that of being tools to her there's a big difference. They still leave just to follow their teacher if anything that helps the point that I'm trying to make. The one lie that you're trying to use as a defense of her truthfulness is very massively terrible. The entire first part of white clouds is misdirection and lies. Some of the stuff she says about the church is flat up made up. She said she sent all the manifest that we never see anything about. Edelgard in the entirety of her character is an unreliable narrator. We are told from edelgard what she does we are never actually shown. You can either chalk it up to terrible storytelling or an intentional design choice. The game itself gives you hints about it. there are NPCs that fly out tell us not to trust everything about edelgard. I get it you like edelgard but you should look at this from a neutral side. I'm not trying to insult the character.

you might want to correct that none of the students from the Black eagle side edelgard included knows anything about the truth of fodlan. Edelgard throughout the entire crimson flower route literally lies and gives them complete misdirection about everything. It doesn't help that she's working with very biased information herself. The Black eagle students are mostly just convenient tools rather than actual friends. Hell even us the main character doesn't hear every secret from edelgard. And to add my own point to this thread. The Black eagle students are also the only students with an actual canonical route where they leave their Lord. Which shows that they are technically the ones who are most likely to not fight for their side. All of the other students being recruited are what ifs. But with the black eagles you have to make them at the top of the list because they're the only ones who actually left their Lord. There's no headcanon about it they're the ones who legit leave. But if I had to make a list the top of it would be Caspar. He's the only one who legit calls edelgard out.

Finally someone agrees with me that she looks amazing as a saint. People actually like her archbishop outfit it's complete garbage.

Rhea is human and that is her greatest fault. a lot of people say that she had hundreds of years to get over it but honestly that truly really isn't enough. she's going through a selective genocide as a black man I can tell you that the scars of slavery still hit deep today in the community as if it was yesterday. for someone to say that she has issues is a vast understatement she didn't have a psychologist to help her through this problem now did she. it's like telling someone's best friend after their mother died to get over it after just two years. Rhea is human and that's the problem if anything she's the most human person in the entire cast of the Lord's. She is completely emotional and stuck on as a child because in that very moment she watched her entire race die. You can compare her to other characters all we want but put yourself in the situation and you'll most likely end up being worse. That's the entire point of her character. it's easy to hate her because she has a character fault that's easy for a regular person to understand but she never gets over it because as a fictional character she supposed to be better than us. Human beings don't like to be told that were flawed in nature. Do I sympathize her no do I understand her completely. And she's got thighs that make the world just seem so perfect.

Like I said there's a reason we don't know what the manifest is if you want to believe edelgard and they leave it blank for you intentionally. Do you not see that you're spinning it in circles. I don't hear about the manifest in any route but in crimson flower That's why I said it could have been an ultimatum we don't know what it is edelgard has been proven to lie and this is the only route that we hear about it. The manifest is a key Lynch pen of making her either a aggressor or someone who is willing for diplomacy. The only way to believe the manifest is to completely believe in edelgard. we have been shown that she's willing to lie to us she lies to all of her other comrades too. Which put doubt in the manifest in that the entire point. You believe that the manifest is what edelgard just telling us what it is. Me or anyone with suspicion would put doubt into it. We have an example of her forcing another house to help her in Golden deer. But it could be that what she says can be completely true. This is why it's a blank story event if we were actually shown that the manifest was what she said or a lie it would either make her a aggressor or a diplomat. This is why you're able to put complete headcanon about what her character is into the event. do you not see your comment and understand that you have put edelguard character in to the manifest. you even mention her character in the comment about the manifest because that's all you actually have to work with. I previously said in the comment that the game makes you have an emotional attachment to the characters. so you can sympathize with them to create a more fluid story for the blank events. For either one of us we could be wrong about the manifest you believe edelgard I do not. All we know edelgard could have given them a picture of a monkey and were both wrong That's why it's left blank. The developers in the dream interview said they intentionally left in doubts for the crimson flower route. Completely showing the fact that they know that by doing this people will end up in situation like this for debate It was all intentional. Once again showing that I'm not trying to disagree with you

Once again we actually don't know and once again what I'm trying to tell you All we hear is what edelgard tells us. this is why I'm saying that we don't know what the manifest was. The game ain't makes it abundantly clear to never show us the manifest. Perfectly willing to lie about a village being destroyed we have an example of her forcing someone else to help her or else they'll be destroyed and golden deer route. The only reason that the manifest is brought up inside her route is to cast doubt it's called the blank story event. and that's the point you believe edelgard. but anyone else could look at the same things later on in route and say she could have lied about the manifest. Yes they could have talked it out in each route one of the lords including our main character tries to talk to edelgard or the Lord opposing them. Dimitri tries to talk to edelgard. Claude tries to talk to Dimitri and edelgard. and then the church route the main character literally tries to talk edelgard down. And edelgard tries to talk to Dimitri and succeeds at talking with Claude. although she never tries to talk rhea down. trying to say that talking was off the table completely ignores the fact that at one point in each route all of the Lord's tried to talk to one another but the other one was too stubborn.

I wouldn't say any of the routes need to be gotten rid of I would say that vw just needs a massive overhaul. I understand that it was for budget restraints but literally copying an entirely different route was uncalled for and Claude deserve better.

well I'm not exactly angry or very emotional about this I mean this is the first comment I've made here in like 3 months. I Said as my point that I don't find either one of them sympathetic in the slightest. The game makes it clear that they could have talked it out. The game made it clear that there were other options. The game has endings for each character achieving the same exact goal so there's no exact point All of them are wrong and all of them are right. so I'm completely indifferent about it. Also I like to say that the manifest had no basis once so ever in the story. for all we know it could have easily said I'm going to war with the church to get power. Serve me or die there's a reason that we never see the manifest. We only hear what edelgard tells us are you telling the truth Is she lie they leave it blank intentionally. The game does this because you're supposed to feel inspired sympathetic loving caring passionate for these characters and hatred disgust envy for the enemies. I don't like the Lord's I love the storytelling of the game they actually do make you care for them in a very passionate way just look at you in the others here. You truly love these characters here. that's the greatest achievement that the game has for itself. Also like to put down that I am not trying to disagree with you. if you said on the first page that this is your stance there's no point in trying to change it or debate with you on that matter. I am just trying to put down how I feel for the characters and my own way just as you have on this thread. And if my tone of speaking seems rough to you don't worry my mother and father have already told me something about it but they get the same indifference like the rest of humanity. so sorry I will try and tone things down.

Stop with the b******* man Dimitri had the choice of surrender and serve edelgard or die fighting her. why do you keep bringing this up as if he had an actual choice of still being anything other than her servant. Let me put how I can see this edelgard and Rhea are both unsympathetic assholes. But I can at least understand why Rhea did what she did she has the excuse of an actual genocide happening in being mentally crazy. The problem with trying the sympathize with any of them is the fact that at the end all of game they achieve the same goal even if Rhea is dead or alive. you can say one's worse than the other but that's just personal opinion. there's no point in trying to change someone's personal opinion because in the end they all achieve peace That's the problem with the game. Because in the very end all of the Lord's are good guys they all have good endings so no one is actually wrong. People defend them to death because in the very end the Lord is right no matter what happens no one has a bad ending. That's why I like the church ending so much without Rhea. because I know me as the main character is my avatar will put in the system I think is right. I think it'll be good so give me that blank avatar ending any day over the bull crap that all the other ones have they're all terrible. The game didn't have the balls to try to give us at least one actual bad ending. because it tried to sugarcoat everyone into being the good guy there's no point in trying to actually debate over who's right and who's wrong. cuz in the end you're just going to have the two dogs barking at each other about whose peace is better even though everyone is already at peace.

Nah I don't think it's a slap fast honestly by the looks of these comments we both think each other's right and we're just explaining it the wrong way

I can't believe I'm about to say this phrase but just because you're right doesn't mean you're correct Both of them are wrong in a way Roku is wrong for just completely denying his friends vision and you know talking about it realizing that as the avatar he has actual swing that creates something Sozin what's wrong for immediately not listening to his friend and just talking about it more instead he went straight to the Earth kingdom and try occupying land Both stubborn extremes but realistically what would Roku think what would any normal person think if their friend all of a suddenly said I will spread the goodness of my kingdom everywhere it's supposed to be short here I'm not taking Roku out of debate here He's just as much of the problem I understand that Sorry about that That's the history buff in me talking two wasted years of my life

I believe Dimitri is the greatest example of ignorance in the story he is a sheep throughout to his own lust and rage point that it nearly completely destroys him and everyone he supposedly cares about only until another person dies does he actually change After taking back his kingdom that is when I actually start the like Dimitri that is when he sees the light he stop being a sheep to his emotions in this story Dimitri represents the thing that I hate the most in the world and the thing that I also love the most The capacity for change For everyone to make themselves better Claude's changes overall small in my opinion story even shows it when our main character meets him again unlike all the other characters we don't meet him in the darkness we meet him in the light

but this is the main thing why should he listen to him why should he believe that his friend has the right to tell everyone else how to be good Sozin was a sheep someone completely impossible of truly being a leader he followed his beliefs to the point that he could never change Alex Alexander the great said once I am not afraid of sheep leading an army of lions I'm afraid of a Lion leading an army of sheep That that is the problem someone that truly has no vision other than that my place is good and yours is evil is the true definition of ignorance The The greatest catastrophes of the world have come from that in that alone Good people doing evil things supposedly to make the world better Cuz cuz the greatest evil is in the hands of those who truly believe they are right not those who are able to question themselves as being wrong That I do believe that Roku should have possibly helped his friend he as the avatar had no choice but the remain neutral he could not allow something like that and this is actual job to keep balance in the world

The true tragedy of this game is the ignorance to never see another option. Every character is stuck on their own ideals stuck in their own cage that they can't look at others for help. It is just specific stubbornness that I don't like edelgard or Rhea they're stubborn to a fault impossible to change unless truly forced to sheep s and monsters clothing

The fact that you think that the guy who killed every airbender on the planet social committed actual complete genocide on people who are pacifist questionable Means there is no point in debating with you about how you feel with edelgard And just to say it again your argument of trying to talk to his friend This is the same guy who once again committed absolute genocide against people who don't fight back Hey Hitler was right to kill the Jews too right come on man Even you know that the argument you're trying to spill is insane Just to say this the fact that he had good beliefs at one point don't mean anything people who are willing to go to such extremes should never be allowed did it take other people's lives After killing his friend what is the first thing he decides to do genocide That's what happens people who believe they are all right people who think they are a absolute right and good will always never question themselves no matter how far they go Also I'm on my phone sorry to comment look so bad

The problem is that she had no idea Rhea would go crazy The empire already kicked out the church anyway so it really doesn't matter how much influence they have over the people she still has final say You're also not talking about the major part that made the war only possible to happen when she declared it The raid on the holy tomb and the acts of terrorism that not only endangered the other students But also got some of them killed and turned into monsters kill off on a third captains While they don't know tried to kill two of the future leaders of the alliance and kingdom She had to attack first because if that actually got out in any form of diplomacy she'll always be the aggressor realistically being the flame emperor did more harm for her she had no choice but to start a war because talking was over at that point she already killed students A lot of what you're saying applies if she knows Rhea emotionally and as a person but she doesn't she doesn't even think that she's a real person That's where the argument of what if she had may changes in the empire that would rhea do something but there is literally not a single amount of evidence that says that she ever would Devaluing the Crest wouldn't matter to her as long as everything still peachy Kin with her mother coming back There was a king that tried to do that once but guess who killed him she's literally working with a very people who could tell her if she doesn't listen to them The war was always going to happen if she hated Crest or not

That too realistically a flashback dlc would be really nice right now what Nemesis and everything Cuz as of right now it's just a lot of congestion on what actually happened and it would be cool

But that's the thing about The Church most of the information we have from it is either flat out lies that people take too seriously or complete head Canon The church needs a DLC route realistically for us to have any actual basis You either believe edelguard story which has so many holes in it you can make Swiss cheese look embarrassed Or Rhea who can't be trusted fully except the fact that the those slitter in the dark agreed at Nemesis was a bandit This is where a lot of the moral gray comes in at in this game Miss information and not understanding what we're giving Well we can't trust everything we make up stuff That's why it's a lot easier for me to think that each route every character is a different character entirely With that I can completely believe that Rhea did everything edelguard Edelguard set in the crimson flower route it's in completely different timeline Just like I can believe that edelguard there's a complete monster in the azure moon route that wants to take over the world the characters aren't completely consistent in each timeline so I can't justify say that they are all the same Well I think about edelguard is a strong-willed character that get the job done in her route only in another route I think she's a complete monster That's exactly why I don't like rhea and say that she's simple and three route she's kidnapped and we have to save her like a princess she's not a character and the only time she becomes a character and she's a villain who we only see is insane it needs to be put down like a dog That's why I like Claude the most because he's the only character that is truly consistent throughout the whole story

You're right maybe I should move on but I still have to say I still think she's simple like we don't even see her in part 2 I can understand edelgard because she's the actual antagonist of three routes in the protagonist of one but Rhea just feels like a cardboard cut out and when people talk about her it's like when they talk about vaan from final fantasy but at least we have actual time with him I just feel like talking about her is an actual waste but I'm sorry if I offended anybody

I'm not averse to Rhea criticism I hate her 3rd out of all of the Lords My problem is is that she's a self-righted idiot that you see all of the problems from base in the game easily it's not that hard she's actually a very simple character most people try to make her complicated but she's just very simple Jesus disgusting disgrace of a character that is more of a plot device which is why we can't even play with her in the damn game lacking any personality at all a waste of damn time if you want to try and support with her and is a complete and other cardboard cutout of a villain inside of crimson flower because of her that route completely sucks because even I can tell that this was the most rush villain s*** ever The only two other people I hate more than her is Dimitri and edelgard and I could write pages on how much I hate Dimitri

you must be making the wrong assessment here first it's not a hate thread I know that I'm just being the douche but in the end there is very much an unnecessary amount of talking about her specifically I don't really care about her character frankly I hate all of the Lord The real tragedy of the game is that all of the side characters themselves are more interesting than our main characters overall I want everyone that's spending their time talking about this dumbass cuz she is very stupid throughout the throughout the entire story especially since most of the arguments about any of the Lords involve head canon and very much a lot of guest work

This thread has literally become what it was always going to rhae hate thread it was either going to be her or edelgard you can never have it in between opinion and look at it from a fantasy bases especially since none of this ever matters because all the endings are the same so no one's wrong inside the end this is why I never understood why the baits end up becoming about them to all the time especially one like this where it's trying to say everyone was wrong in the end and that it all could have been ended we're talking because everyone seemed to forgot that this was supposed to talk about the tragedy of the game the biggest tragedy of this game is that it always underlined turns into two characters and their fans arguing like insane lunatics as if they're real life people but that proves one thing that characters are great