Jump to content

jawaunw

Member
  • Content Count

    45
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by jawaunw


  1. 3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

    Starting the fires would've made more sense if the Imperial Army had already entered Fhirdiad. Catherine could have suggested evacuating the citizenry, with Rhea saying there's no time to do so. Still a morally questionable move, to say the least, but at least there's a logical reason for the course of action.

    There's nothing logical about the scene at all. It's the most inconsistent thing that happens in the entire game. and completely slaps the face of people like Catherine and Rhea cuz it's so out of character. especially with Rhea who doesn't want a genocide to happened again but it's doing the exact same thing that happened to her.

     

    1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

    As mentioned above, even Rhea just saying that Edelgard would come in to rescue the civilians would help. Edelgard mentions that Rhea had locked the civilians inside. 

    which makes the scene even more confusing because they were just told to set the place on fire. Unless I'm confused and missed the scene where she said keep the citizens in their houses. Because they should be trapped only by the virtue of the fire.

     

    one of the biggest complaints I have is that they want them keep all of the Lords to clean.  They couldn't even justify rhea hating humans Even at her worse she never said she hates humans. which comes right into the face of this scene that makes her commit the same thing that she hates the most in the world.  

     

    The writers of this story wanted to have their cake and eat it too. especially with edelgard's route where they have to justify her going to war with her as a villain. That's why Dimitri and Rhea act so different in the route they have to justify them somehow being villainous and they couldn't even do that. 

     

    just like how edelgard said she's going to take over the world in the blue lion route.

     

     


  2. 56 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    Yet such "force" is completely gone when you are in their house routes respectively. Ashe is never  on the Dukedom's side in AM, nor is Lorenz helping the Empire in VW. Like I said, it's a matter of how Byleth's direct influence affects them to a great extent. 

    Typically I'd call it inconsistent writing but there's actually good reasons behind that. Lorenz flat out says he still has to convince his father not to help the empire because they might get attacked. Ashe I don't know much about because he spent most of his time on the bench.

     

    56 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    Out of the already long list of reasons to hate the Church, this is not the end all, be all things to hate the Church for. It's literally just one more thing. Not even the game treats how Arianrhod's destruction was bad to the point that people were extremely vengeful on the Church. All it does it just motivate them to win the war as fast as possible. If you have things where people want to slaughter everyone in the church, you'd have a case. But no one does. Because people already have reasons to hate the Church. 

    Hell, Lorenz even states it himself of how many nobles want Rhea dead, and have just played lip service to the Church for so long out of fear of losing power

    What does this have to do with the comment I made? Like I'm serious like this has no reason being here I'm talking about the lie and not the church.

     

    56 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    Dude... where do you get the idea that you can define how "friends" are? Are you the master of friendships that you can declare who are friends and who aren't? People have friendships that are friendships to them and would be true by their own beliefs. 

    So no, the Black Eagle House would still be friends because the people in there believe as such.

    What you said here is just downright silly. 

     

    This seems to be the biggest point here man. I'd like to put down that yes as a human being I have the right to question the concept of friendship between people. I mean look at the Black eagle supports all of them have coming together moments except with Edelgard. there was a giant wall between them that no one ever is able to get past except the main character with his magic superpower.

     

    48 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

    That just means you are biased against everyone, not neutral. 

    Also, did you even read what I wrote about why it is a really stupid idea to tell the Empire as a whole who was really responsible for the destruction of Arianrhod?

    The short summary is this, the Agarthans will take an official declaration of their existence as an act of war and destroyed more cities in retaliation. She lies because she cannot officially admit that the true culprit even exists without risking her own people.

    I mean I'm only realistically like that for the Lords they're all just too happy-go-lucky for me. no one is truly a villain except those who slither it's just another good guy versus Good guys scenario. 

     

    and I'm saying the LIE is bad more in the way of the Black eagle students rather than the people this is a perfect chance for her to show weakness towards them and try to have comfort with them and rally together to come out stronger. 

     

    I mean the Black eagle house just skips the reunions entirely. they're either completely different camp they literally only follow the teacher. the only reason they stayed with the empire outside of the Black eagle route is because it's their home and well special enemies. I mean they really should have had a reunions battle for the crimson flower route blue lions are the ones who should never have stuck together. 

    And the keep with the thread I still think the black eagles Ashe and Lorenz are the only people who would literally leave their house because of circumstance.

    I still don't understand why anyone would think Lysithea what willingly join the empire if it wasn't for the teacher. 

     

     


  3. 12 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

    For someone telling me to be neutral, your words are riddled with bias over being anti-Edelgard

    well you're not wrong I hate all of the Lord so technically I'm only neutral in the fact that I dislike them all.

     

    12 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

    And again, no. The students leaving Edelgard in Silver Snow only shows how they are with Byleth's influence. I mean, look at Ashe and Lorenz, who join the Empire even if you recruit them on certain routes and have to re-recruit them again. They only don't need to be if you are on their house's path. It just shows how Byleth's influence works. So the Black Eagle students aren't all against Edelgard or would be "canonically" at all. 

    Okay the two characters you just mentioned were forced to fight on the empire side. ashe because his family. Lorenz Is without a doubt the most force character to be on the empire side. Literally admitting he doesn't want to be there.

     

    12 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

    And Edelgard has definitely not been lying or making up. There's only been 1 lie she said, and it was regarding Arianrhod. That's the one and ONLY lie she ever made. Everything else goes up to the matter of perspective from how she actually knows more of the truth than 99% of Fodlan does. Since the rest of Fodlan have been fed the many lies of the Chruch. You know, the Church run by Rhea, who has factually falsified history for her own purposes. The writers themselves remark that the history of Fodlan can hardly be trusted because of Rhea. Edelgard's the only one that knew some of the truth, even if it's lacking in certain context. 

    Because when you are holding some of the truth, and then see through the rest of the lies, then the rest comes to your own interpretation. 

    Cause how would Edelgard have learned the entire truth when the people that KNOWS the truth went through great lengths to HIDE the truth? 

    Yes a very much terrible lie used as an excuse just to make people hate the church more. 

    also the same developers who told us that they left a bunch of hints inside of edelgard's route so we wouldn't trust her because she might be lying to us. It sounds like a deliberate ploy to create tension. 

    Also she never told anyone about those who slittered in the dark until way at the end. she blatant was lying about them. That's two lies with the price of one. 

    none of them are friends they aren't friends by truth or by love or anything. The only house that has true friends throughout the whole game is the blue lion house. And they're the most dysfunctional group of them all but you can argue that none of them would ever leave their king.


  4. 19 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    And now you are trying to say that Edelgard sees them as tools? Dude, I feel you didn't pay a hint of attention to Edelgard if you actually said something like that. What you said is blatantly false

    I never said that she sees them as tools I said that their relationship is that of being tools to her there's a big difference.

     

    19 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    Also, Silver Snow route having the Black Eagles leave is purely cause of Byleth. That's not a case of them "canonically" being someone that would leave Edelgard. It just pushes the case that Byleth is the "god" that basically everyone worships. No different from how every student comes to Garreg Mach purely cause of a reunion promise made five years ago. 

    They still leave just to follow their teacher if anything that helps the point that I'm trying to make.

     

    19 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    Edelgard has lied a total of 1 time in CF. She has not been lying "throughout the entire" route as you are trying to insist on. She really doesn't. Edelgard has hardly lied, or given misdirection about anything. In fact, it's the more the opposite, in that she's been trying to get you to realize what she's trying to do. 

    The one lie that you're trying to use as a defense of her truthfulness is very massively terrible. The entire first part of white clouds is misdirection and lies. Some of the stuff she says about the church is flat up made up. She said she sent all the manifest that we never see anything about. Edelgard in the entirety of her character is an unreliable narrator. We are told from edelgard what she does we are never actually shown. You can either chalk it up to terrible storytelling or an intentional design choice.

     

    The game itself gives you hints about it. there are NPCs that fly out tell us not to trust everything about edelgard.

     

    I get it you like edelgard but you should look at this from a neutral side. I'm not trying to insult the character.


  5. 2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

    They didn't just side with Edelgard just because Byleth did. They sided with her because they also now know the truth of Fodlan. 

    you might want to correct that none of the students from the Black eagle side edelgard included knows anything about the truth of fodlan.  

     

    Edelgard throughout the entire crimson flower route literally lies and gives them complete misdirection about everything. It doesn't help that she's working with very biased information herself. The Black eagle students are mostly just convenient tools rather than actual friends. Hell even us the main character doesn't hear every secret from edelgard.

     

    And to add my own point to this thread.

    The Black eagle students are also the only students with an actual canonical route where they leave their Lord. Which shows that they are technically the ones who are most likely to not fight for their side. All of the other students being recruited are what ifs. But with the black eagles you have to make them at the top of the list because they're the only ones who actually left their Lord.

     

    There's no headcanon about it they're the ones who legit leave. But if I had to make a list the top of it would be Caspar. He's the only one who legit calls edelgard out.

     

     


  6. Rhea is human and that is her greatest fault. a lot of people say that she had hundreds of years to get over it but honestly that truly really isn't enough. she's going through a selective genocide as a black man I can tell you that the scars of slavery still hit deep today in the community as if it was yesterday. 

    for someone to say that she has issues is a vast understatement she didn't have a psychologist to help her through this problem now did she. it's like telling someone's best friend after their mother died to get over it after just two years.

     

    Rhea is human and that's the problem if anything she's the most human person in the entire cast of the Lord's. She is completely emotional and stuck on as a child because in that very moment she watched her entire race die. You can compare her to other characters all we want but put yourself in the situation and you'll most likely end up being worse. That's the entire point of her character. it's easy to hate her because she has a character fault that's easy for a regular person to understand but she never gets over it because as a fictional character she supposed to be better than us. Human beings don't like to be told that were flawed in nature. 

     

    Do I sympathize her no do I understand her completely. And she's got thighs that make the world just seem so perfect.

     


  7. 15 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    So, you want to ignore what the game states and insist that it has to be something akin to an ultimatum? Where is your logic behind it? In fact, it's very much tantamount that Edelgard would actually NOT make it be an ultimatum, given how Edelgard is always someone that respects choices. Out of all the cahracters in the game, Edelgard's always been the one that ever actually asks Byleth what THEY want, and if they are sure of their path, always giving them a choice, even in her own route, asking that they can walk away from this fight at any point, and Byleth always assures her that they are certain of their choice.

    To say that she lied about the manifesto is sounds like what Seteth and Dimtiri think, where they insinuate that she wants to become a false deity even though that is blatantly wrong

    Like I said there's a reason we don't know what the manifest is if you want to believe edelgard and they leave it blank for you intentionally. Do you not see that you're spinning it in circles. I don't hear about the manifest in any route but in crimson flower That's why I said it could have been an ultimatum we don't know what it is edelgard has been proven to lie and this is the only route that we hear about it. 

    The manifest is a key Lynch pen of making her either a aggressor or someone who is willing for diplomacy. The only way to believe the manifest is to completely believe in edelgard. we have been shown that she's willing to lie to us she lies to all of her other comrades too. Which put doubt in the manifest in that the entire point. 

     

    You believe that the manifest is what edelgard just telling us what it is. Me or anyone with suspicion would put doubt into it. We have an example of her forcing another house to help her in Golden deer. But it could be that what she says can be completely true. This is why it's a blank story event if we were actually shown that the manifest was what she said or a lie it would either make her a aggressor or a diplomat.

     

    This is why you're able to put complete headcanon about what her character is into the event. do you not see your comment and understand that you have put edelguard character in to the manifest. you even mention her character in the comment about the manifest because that's all you actually have to work with. 

     

    I previously said in the comment that the game makes you have an emotional attachment to the characters. so you can sympathize with them to create a more fluid story for the blank events. 

     

    For either one of us we could be wrong about the manifest you believe edelgard I do not. All we know edelgard could have given them a picture of a monkey and were both wrong That's why it's left blank.

     

    The developers in the dream interview said they intentionally left in doubts for the crimson flower route. Completely showing the fact that they know that by doing this people will end up in situation like this for debate It was all intentional.

     

    Once again showing that I'm not trying to disagree with you


  8. 19 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    She's not making an ultimatum. She's giving the people her reasons for why she's opposing the Church and trying to tell them not to fight against her. 

    So no, Dimitri wasn't in an ultimatum where he must bow to the Empire or die. But he chose to fight the Empire because he wanted revenge for Duscur. I dunno why people try to insist otherwise, when this has been the ENTIRE basis of his character in all the routes, and how he confessed his entire reason to go to Garreg Mach was for revenge. He blames Edelgard for Duscur, and won't ever listen to reason

    Once again we actually don't know and once again what I'm trying to tell you All we hear is what edelgard tells us. this is why I'm saying that we don't know what the manifest was. The game ain't makes it abundantly clear to never show us the manifest. Perfectly willing to lie about a village being destroyed we have an example of her forcing someone else to help her or else they'll be destroyed and golden deer route. The only reason that the manifest is brought up inside her route is to cast doubt it's called the blank story event.

    and that's the point you believe edelgard. but anyone else could look at the same things later on in route and say she could have lied about the manifest. 

    19 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    Except you're missing the point. The entire "talking" things out is a case where NO ONE is willing to talk things out. But more than anything, they all have their own goals and ideals, one that contradicts others. Edelgard wants freedom for humanity and for people to no longer be divided by a class system. Rhea believes that people must be dependent on the goddess and remain bound by the nobility system, as it is the best way to maintain order. That already puts them at odds, where talking won't accomplish anything. 

    The game makes it clear that they can't talk it out, and in fact, would always be in opposition. 

    The manifestos are nothing at all like you said.

    Yes they could have talked it out in each route one of the lords including our main character tries to talk to edelgard or the Lord opposing them. Dimitri tries to talk to edelgard. Claude tries to talk to Dimitri and edelgard. and then the church route the main character literally tries to talk edelgard down. And edelgard tries to talk to Dimitri and succeeds at talking with Claude. although she never tries to talk rhea down.

     

    trying to say that talking was off the table completely ignores the fact that at one point in each route all of the Lord's tried to talk to one another but the other one was too stubborn.


  9. 24 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    Yeah, sorry, everything you said isn't even what happened at all. And I genuinely dislike the tone you have, so either tone it down, or get out.

    well I'm not exactly angry or very emotional about this I mean this is the first comment I've made here in like 3 months.

     

    I Said as my point that I don't find either one of them sympathetic in the slightest. The game makes it clear that they could have talked it out. The game made it clear that there were other options. The game has endings for each character achieving the same exact goal so there's no exact point All of them are wrong and all of them are right. so I'm completely indifferent about it.

    Also I like to say that the manifest had no basis once so ever in the story. for all we know it could have easily said I'm going to war with the church to get power. Serve me or die there's a reason that we never see the manifest. We only hear what edelgard tells us are you telling the truth Is she lie they leave it blank intentionally.

     

    The game does this because you're supposed to feel inspired sympathetic loving caring passionate for these characters and hatred disgust envy for the enemies. I don't like the Lord's I love the storytelling of the game they actually do make you care for them in a very passionate way just look at you in the others here. You truly love these characters here. that's the greatest achievement that the game has for itself.

    Also like to put down that I am not trying to disagree with you. if you said on the first page that this is your stance there's no point in trying to change it or debate with you on that matter. I am just trying to put down how I feel for the characters and my own way just as you have on this thread.

     

    And if my tone of speaking seems rough to you don't worry my mother and father have already told me something about it but they get the same indifference like the rest of humanity. so sorry I will try and tone things down.

     


  10. 2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

    Yeah, Edelgard declares war and attacks the Church. But keep in mind that Edelgard had already sent manifestos to every noble house across Fodlan, acquiring the support of many nobles in both the Alliance and Kingdom. Dimitri knows why Edelgard is opposing the Church, and had a choice. Rather than try any forms of negotiation or remain neutral, Dimitri actually joined with Rhea, cause he wanted revenge for Duscur.

    Stop with the b******* man Dimitri had the choice of surrender and serve edelgard or die fighting her. why do you keep bringing this up as if he had an actual choice of still being anything other than her servant.

     

    Let me put how I can see this edelgard and Rhea are both unsympathetic assholes. But I can at least understand why Rhea did what she did she has the excuse of an actual genocide happening in being mentally crazy. 

     

    The problem with trying the sympathize with any of them is the fact that at the end all of game they achieve the same goal even if Rhea is dead or alive. 

     

    you can say one's worse than the other but that's just personal opinion. there's no point in trying to change someone's personal opinion because in the end they all achieve peace That's the problem with the game. Because in the very end all of the Lord's are good guys they all have good endings so no one is actually wrong. People defend them to death because in the very end the Lord is right no matter what happens no one has a bad ending.

     

    That's why I like the church ending so much without Rhea. because I know me as the main character is my avatar will put in the system I think is right. I think it'll be good so give me that blank avatar ending any day over the bull crap that all the other ones have they're all terrible. The game didn't have the balls to try to give us at least one actual bad ending. because it tried to sugarcoat everyone into being the good guy there's no point in trying to actually debate over who's right and who's wrong. cuz in the end you're just going to have the two dogs barking at each other about whose peace is better even though everyone is already at peace.


  11. 1 minute ago, eclipse said:

    Yeah, things get ugly when you try to mix FE and actual history.

    Also, is this a discussion or a "no you're wrong" slapfest?  Because one of these is grounds for closing the topic, and I really don't want to do that.

    Nah I don't think it's a slap fast honestly by the looks of these comments we both think each other's right and we're just explaining it the wrong way


  12. 10 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    Dude, are you for real?

    Sozin proposed an idea to Roku. Roku adamantly rejected it. Sozin wanted Roku to at the very least consider the possibilities, and still Roku was being stubborn about it.

    And you are quick to ignore how even as a spirit, Roku was STILL stubborn that he would insist that Aang had to kill Zuko and separate the four nations, to the point that Aang severed his connection to Roku as a result at realizing how wrong Roku's thinking was. 

    Roku refused to believe that the peace could exist if the four nations connected with one another. He believed they HAD to remain apart. 

    But this is a VERY wrong way of thinking. By keeping the nations separate, you promote isolation, make people closed off on seeing opportunities to learn. The Avatar has to learn the four elements, and therefore has to explore the world and learn the culture of the world so that he can keep balance. This is literally why cultural exchange should have been considered. 

    Sozin's original ideals WERE right, but Roku stubbornly and adamantly refused to believe in it, but Roku was WRONG to believe that.

    And yeah, I can never forgive Sozin for committing genocide, much like how I can never forgive Faerghus for committing genocide on Duscur, but guess what? Roku is very much part of the reason why Sozin decided to resort to war for the sake of his ideals. 

    I can't believe I'm about to say this phrase but just because you're right doesn't mean you're correct

    Both of them are wrong in a way

    Roku is wrong for just completely denying his friends vision and you know talking about it realizing that as the avatar he has actual swing that creates something

    Sozin what's wrong for immediately not listening to his friend and just talking about it more instead he went straight to the Earth kingdom and try occupying land Both stubborn extremes

    but realistically what would Roku think what would any normal person think if their friend all of a suddenly said I will spread the goodness of my kingdom everywhere

    it's supposed to be short here I'm not taking Roku out of debate here He's just as much of the problem I understand that

    14 minutes ago, eclipse said:

    Did we just bring Hilter into this discussion?

    Don't do that.

    Sorry about that That's the history buff in me talking two wasted years of my life


  13. 7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    You are talking about the Church of Seiros, which is what the majority of the nations and people as a whole support due to it being the religion of the continent. 

    Religion + Medieval times = A BIG DEAL!

    Yeah, everyone is stubborn. It isn't just Edelgard and Rhea.

    Dimitri is consumed by revenge and refuses to listen to anything until he has his redemption in AM.

    Claude is unwilling to trust others because of xenophobia in Fodlan until he learns to trust Byleth. 

    I believe Dimitri is the greatest example of ignorance in the story he is a sheep throughout to his own lust and rage

    point that it nearly completely destroys him and everyone he supposedly cares about only until another person dies does he actually change

    After taking back his kingdom that is when I actually start the like Dimitri that is when he sees the light he stop being a sheep to his emotions

    in this story Dimitri represents the thing that I hate the most in the world and the thing that I also love the most The capacity for change

    For everyone to make themselves better

    Claude's changes overall small in my opinion story even shows it when our main character meets him again unlike all the other characters we don't meet him in the darkness we meet him in the light


  14. 5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    Did... did you literally miss what I said? I feel you purposefully ignored what I said and took everything out of context. I literally stated that what they did was wrong and they had to be stopped.

    What I also stated was that Roku should not have rejected what Sozin said, but instead took that as an opportunity to make peaceful cultural exchange. 

    Suddenly, had that been the case, no war, no genocide, but peaceful change. But Roku was adamant about keeping the four nations divided, which caused Sozin to try to force change. There is a cause and effect to everything. Every action you make has consequences. Hence why it's utterly stupid to act like doing nothing is a righteous act when it's very much evil. 

    Read Einstein's quote:

    Doing nothing, allowing things to stay as they are, it's what causes others to act. 

    Roku choosing to do nothing and instead rejecting Sozin's noble beliefs that they should try to spread their culture around made is what caused Sozin to harbor hatred and anger, making him grow resentful, prideful, and arrogant, believing that he should do it. 

    Roku COULD have actually accepted what Sozin did, and allowed it to be a peaceful cultural exchange. Could have opened up things. 

    Next time, pay attention to the context of what I said before you start making up bullshit, okay? 

    but this is the main thing why should he listen to him why should he believe that his friend has the right to tell everyone else how to be good

    Sozin was a sheep someone completely impossible of truly being a leader he followed his beliefs to the point that he could never change

    Alex Alexander the great said once I am not afraid of sheep leading an army of lions I'm afraid of a Lion leading an army of sheep

    That that is the problem someone that truly has no vision other than that my place is good and yours is evil is the true definition of ignorance

    The The greatest catastrophes of the world have come from that in that alone Good people doing evil things supposedly to make the world better

    Cuz cuz the greatest evil is in the hands of those who truly believe they are right not those who are able to question themselves as being wrong

    That I do believe that Roku should have possibly helped his friend he as the avatar had no choice but the remain neutral he could not allow something like that and this is actual job to keep balance in the world

     


  15. The true tragedy of this game is the ignorance to never see another option.

    Every character is stuck on their own ideals stuck in their own cage that they can't look at others for help.

    It is just specific stubbornness that I don't like edelgard or Rhea they're stubborn to a fault impossible to change unless truly forced to sheep s and monsters clothing

     


  16. 1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

    1) That's a VERY huge misgiving, first off. Crests are what upholds the noble system, literally stated by Hanneman himself. They need to stop being seen as something that gets you political power and influence. It's why Ingrid was nearly kidnapped. It's why Mercedes was forcibly adopted. And trying to blame it on people is incredibly naive. Yeah, humans are dumb, but the problem is that Rhea, the archbishop that promotes the Crests as tokens of the goddess's power, and had to have been aware within the first century or two about how humans developed an obsession. 

    Keep in mind that Rhea is the one that wrote in the religion that Seiros makes "emperors of man" and "elevates people" which are obviously cases of how she is making it that nobles and Crests are connected because Crests are overall "divine right" for nobles to rule. 

    Also, if you wanna criticize it like that, then you should go back to 1100 years ago when Rhea started the War of Heroes. Or Loog rebelling against the Empire. Trying to act like because someone starts a war, they are invalidated, you oughta reconsider history itself. What happens happened. Whether it's right or wrong absolutely is not something you'll ever have the right to consider. 

    We are talking about an institution of a major religion that is in medieval times. You need to be aware of the setting here. The timing. This isn't modern day standards. This is medieval times, where other governments haven't been made. Also, Lelouch is still a terrorist that brainwashes people, murders, and even was the one behind the massacre. Accident or not. Hell, he's the biggest reason why the FLEIJA was fired and even created. 

    But back on topic, Edelgard was not going just to destroy the Crests. She went after the nobility. Destroying the political influence of Crests just means that it's much easier to destroy the nobility. 

    Also, back to the Dimitri argument. No. At this point, its abundantly clear that had Edelgard not tried to forcibly remove Rhea from power and defeat the Church, she could never make changes. The Nabateans try to promote their own beliefs of peace by inhibiting mankind's ability to progress, hence why they prevented tech from advancing constantly. And Edelgard trying to change society, abolishing the notions of Crests in her own nation, would have Rhea and the Church use their political influence to hinder her and protect the nobles. And Edelgard will have died long before. Rhea is immortal. You can do the math from there.

    2) I'm sorry, what? 

    Because you don't see it, you don't believe it? How about the fact that in the endings, there is peace in the continent, and no forms of rebellion being made. If anything, that's more proof that people side with Edelgard. The mural even depicts the commoners rejoicing over Edelgard. 

    Faerghus did not join the war to defend itself. It joined the war by allying itself with the Church, which the Empire was at war with. So no, in CF, the Empire never invaded Faerghus first. They attacked the Church, and the Church went to Faerghus and allied with them. Dimitri did so because he wanted revenge on the Empire for Duscur. So no, if anything, Faerghus was at fault for allying with them and basically making an enemy of the Empire as a result. And that decision resulted in Rhea being in Fhirdiad and her setting it on fire. 

    In the end, the civilians that were trapped in Fhirdiad were dying and were only saved because the EMPIRE entered and saved them. Why else would you think Edelgard would enter a city on fire? There's no strategic merit in it. If anything, the logical choice is to let it burn down. Edelgard didn't need to enter. But she did, because the civilians were dying from the flames. 

    Edelgard did overall save them, and this is what people logically see as a result. They know that Rhea ordered the city to be set on fire, and Edelgard saved them. 

    Stopping Sozin and eventually Ozai was correct, cause Sozin committed genocide on the Air Temples, and Ozai wanted to commit genocide on the Earth Kingdom. Yes, both were very horrible, but remember that Sozin's original belief is that he wanted to spread what his nation had with the others. And you have to remember that this is almost 10,000 years or so of isolation. You have nations made that were isolated from one another, never interacting apart from the Avatar. 

    Iroh literally taught Zuko the lesson of how you must be open to all the nations and possibilities, or you'll be too prideful and rigid. 

    Roku SHOULD have tried to actually consider Sozin's beliefs and actually tried to compromise, allowing cultural exchange. But he harshly rejected it, and as a result, Sozin decided on doing it by force. Yet it is precisely cause of that that cultural exchange finally became possible. Benders of different origins could be together, and everyone could learn from one another. 

    Roku was just as stubborn and overall was unwilling to accept change that resulted in the 100-year war happening. Had he been open to change and tried to believe that the world should change, he and Sozin would never had a fall out and, slow and steady, cultural exchange would have happened. 

    Keep in mind that had Unalaq never tried to have the Spirit Portals opened, and Korra realizing that they should remain open, the Airbenders would have never revived unless it spent MANY centuries trying. 

    That's the truly meaning of BALANCE.

    Chaos and Order. Both are NECESSARY.

    And Chaos is not limited to just war or violence. 

    Any sort of change is considered chaos. Had Roku and Sozin made peaceful efforts to promote cultural exchange, it's chaos. 

    People and society have to always be willing to change and experience it. If you don't, if you remain stagnant for too long... well... something breaks. 

    The fact that you think that the guy who killed every airbender on the planet social committed actual complete genocide on people who are pacifist questionable

    Means there is no point in debating with you about how you feel with edelgard 

    And just to say it again your argument of trying to talk to his friend This is the same guy who once again committed absolute genocide against people who don't fight back

    Hey Hitler was right to kill the Jews too right come on man Even you know that the argument you're trying to spill is insane

     

    Just to say this the fact that he had good beliefs at one point don't mean anything people who are willing to go to such extremes should never be allowed did it take other people's lives

    After killing his friend what is the first thing he decides to do genocide That's what happens people who believe they are all right people who think they are a absolute right and good will always never question themselves no matter how far they go

     

    Also I'm on my phone sorry to comment look so bad


  17. 1 hour ago, Hardric62 said:

     

    . . .

    Politics, and life in general, doesn't exactly always work on the 'If I can get away with X thing, I can get away with lesser thing x'. Shocking, I know. But you seem to (willfully) forget that war isn't just a defiance: it's also the biggest way of answering these defiances. Or you're telling me that because I can, I dunno, kill a cop and flee while all the cops near to me (namely, the one I kiilled) cannot stop me, I can get away with speeding. Except it doesn't work like that. And when I do both, I don't 'get away' with speeding, it only fades into the background because guess what, I killed a cop. Not that lesser offenses won't find their use against me (see Al Capone).

    When Edelgard launches her offensive a measly two weeks after the war declaration, heck by doing that war declaration, she pretty much sidesteps the whole diplomatic process which would have led to that point, she doesn't just magically get away with it, she just have thrown a far bigger rock in the pound, so no one is in position of going after her for throwing the smaller rocks before.

    War would have been a possible sanction, but I'm sure Rhea would have prefffered in that case that it was one where she could condamn Edelgard as an heretic turning her back on the Goddess in front of the wider population of Adrestia, getting Imperial nobles to side with her for more or less interested motives, and maybe even foreign powers answering the defiance to Fodlan's supreme moral authority.

    What Edelgard did here was throwing first punch in such a violent and quick ways that it deprived the Church of any leveraging on Imperial society before the assault on Not!Vatican, striking before anything could be done against her.  After that, either Rhea is out and the Church's political's authority and leverage is pretty much shattered, or Rhea going more and more in what I will dub 'Seiros Mode' will sap what influence she has left all by herself, as evidenced by the regular trickle of Church and Knights deserters you see in CF. And you'll notice that even in this scenario, mentions are made of civilian unrest in face of the war with the Church within Adrestia. Yes, it gets under control after the five years,  but it means the influence and the potential of using it was there. Edelgard just stroke before it could be leveraged.

     

     

    I was actually thinking about increased diplomatic pressures, in whatever shape the Church could think about. You were the one who made the jump from 'Leveraging guilt and a big favor' to 'Mugging' without thinking of any possible intermediary step. Talk about a lack of imagination.

     

    The problem is that she had no idea Rhea would go crazy 

    The empire already kicked out the church anyway so it really doesn't matter how much influence they have over the people she still has final say

    You're also not talking about the major part that made the war only possible to happen when she declared it The raid on the holy tomb and the acts of terrorism that not only endangered the other students 

    But also got some of them killed and turned into monsters kill off on a third captains

    While they don't know tried to kill two of the future leaders of the alliance and kingdom

    She had to attack first because if that actually got out in any form of diplomacy she'll always be the aggressor realistically being the flame emperor did more harm for her she had no choice but to start a war because talking was over at that point she already killed students

    A lot of what you're saying applies if she knows Rhea emotionally and as a person but she doesn't she doesn't even think that she's a real person

    That's where the argument of what if she had may changes in the empire that would rhea do something but there is literally not a single amount of evidence that says that she ever would

    Devaluing the Crest wouldn't matter to her as long as everything still peachy Kin with her mother coming back 

    There was a king that tried to do that once but guess who killed him she's literally working with a very people who could tell her if she doesn't listen to them The war was always going to happen if she hated Crest or not


  18. 6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

    And I think the very fact that she was able to launch a direct war against the church means defying the church in other ways is evidently possible.

    That the church would take the relic by force is conjecture. What is not conjecture is that the church believes it belongs to them by virtue of them being the Church. The empire believes it belongs to them because they received it from Dagda. The Church's claim to ownership does not take precedent over the empires claim to ownership. The Church has to send a representative to try and negotiate them giving it to the church. They cannot, and do not, simply take it by force. The empire knows the church wants it and is prepared to use it to exert influence over the church. Duke Gerth gives it up willingly however, even though he knows that's not in the empire's best interests. That's what happens. Saying if that didn't happen the church would have send knights to mug an imperial duke is fanfiction.

    But that's the thing about The Church most of the information we have from it is either flat out lies that people take too seriously or complete head Canon The church needs a DLC route realistically for us to have any actual basis

     

    You either believe edelguard story which has so many holes in it you can make Swiss cheese look embarrassed

    Or Rhea who can't be trusted fully except the fact that the those slitter in the dark agreed at Nemesis was a bandit

     

    This is where a lot of the moral gray comes in at in this game Miss information and not understanding what we're giving

    Well we can't trust everything we make up stuff That's why it's a lot easier for me to think that each route every character is a different character entirely

    With that I can completely believe that Rhea did everything edelguard Edelguard set in the crimson flower route it's in completely different timeline

     

    Just like I can believe that edelguard there's a complete monster in the azure moon route that wants to take over the world

    the characters aren't completely consistent in each timeline so I can't justify say that they are all the same

    Well I think about edelguard is a strong-willed character that get the job done in her route only in another route I think she's a complete monster

    That's exactly why I don't like rhea and say that she's simple and three route she's kidnapped and we have to save her like a princess she's not a character and the only time she becomes a character and she's a villain who we only see is insane it needs to be put down like a dog

    That's why I like Claude the most because he's the only character that is truly consistent throughout the whole story

     


  19. 2 minutes ago, Crysta said:

    She isn't a simple character and you shouldn't tell people they're discussing her the wrong way lmao

    Her place in the story and her motivations are pivotal and she's going to be talked about. Again, if you don't like it, move on. 

    You're right maybe I should move on but I still have to say I still think she's simple like we don't even see her in part 2 I can understand edelgard because she's the actual antagonist of three routes in the protagonist of one but Rhea just feels like a cardboard cut out and when people talk about her it's like when they talk about vaan from final fantasy but at least we have actual time with him I just feel like talking about her is an actual waste but I'm sorry if I offended anybody


  20. 8 minutes ago, Crysta said:

    You're 100% down with slagging on Edelgard elsewhere so I'm not really going think you're arguing in good faith here.

    If you're averse to Rhea criticism, I suggest not inviting yourself into the conversation.

    I'm not averse to Rhea criticism I hate her 3rd out of all of the Lords 

    My problem is is that she's a self-righted idiot that you see all of the problems from base in the game easily it's not that hard she's actually a very simple character most people try to make her complicated but she's just very simple Jesus disgusting disgrace of a character that is more of a plot device which is why we can't even play with her in the damn game lacking any personality at all a waste of damn time if you want to try and support with her and is a complete and other cardboard cutout of a villain inside of crimson flower because of her that route completely sucks because even I can tell that this was the most rush villain s*** ever The only two other people I hate more than her is Dimitri and edelgard and I could write pages on how much I hate Dimitri


  21. 5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

    It's not a Rhea "hate" thread, dude.

    Nor any kind of hate thread. 

    Stop thinking pointing out ways of criticizing characters as indicators of "hate". 

    you must be making the wrong assessment here first it's not a hate thread I know that I'm just being the douche but in the end there is very much an unnecessary amount of talking about her specifically I don't really care about her character frankly I hate all of the Lord The real tragedy of the game is that all of the side characters themselves are more interesting than our main characters overall

    I want everyone that's spending their time talking about this dumbass cuz she is very stupid throughout the throughout the entire story especially since most of the arguments about any of the Lords involve head canon and very much a lot of guest work


  22.  This thread has literally become what it was always going to rhae hate thread it was either going to be her or edelgard you can never have it in between opinion and look at it from a fantasy bases especially since none of this ever matters because all the endings are the same so no one's wrong inside the end this is why I never understood why the baits end up becoming about them to all the time especially one like this where it's trying to say everyone was wrong in the end and that it all could have been ended we're talking because everyone seemed to forgot that this was supposed to talk about the tragedy of the game 

     

     

    the biggest tragedy of this game is that it always underlined turns into two characters and their fans arguing like insane lunatics as if they're real life people but that proves one thing that characters are great

×
×
  • Create New...