jawaunw
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Posts posted by jawaunw
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I'm seeing a lot of rhea in this conversation and I really don't understand why both of the characters are rulers of their own kingdom she can't just declare war on two other kingdoms The only thing she can be mad at is edelgard being alive and they can probably talk that out depending on it how the conversation goes
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1 hour ago, Darkmoon6789 said:
I think that for the most part, the one Edelgard refers to as the false goddess is the immaculate one, which is the being she actually seeks to destroy. I am not sure if Edelgard believes Sothis ever existed at all, just another lie told by Rhea to keep people in line. She also have no knowledge about the true history between Rhea, Nemesis and the Agarthans or the fact that Rhea intends to resurrect her mother. It is also an interesting fact that Edelgard actually tolerates faith in Sothis, she has problems with the institution, which is why she can get people like Mercedes on her side (CF only, I have heard her policies on religion is harsher elsewhere). I do believe that Edelgard herself is an atheist though, she doesn't think that Sothis exists at all, and I don't think Byleth ever told her about the girl in his/her head.
All evidence seem to suggest that Sothis doesn't actually agree with most of Rhea's practices. So if she actually did manage to return her mother, I don't think she would be very pleased.
About your comment on soft and hard power. I guess what you meant to say is that there is a difference between subtle abuses of power and overt used of power. Nemesis is in the overt category and Rhea is quite subtle. But here's the thing, subtle influences can be far more dangerous than overt ones, they are far more insidious and can more easily infiltrate every aspect of an society where overt uses of power will fail.
Look, I don't hate every aspect of Rhea, I feel sort of bad for her given the circumstances, but she needs to stop being so controlling and actually trust humanity to make their own destiny again. Her primary problem is that she is living in the past and is unable to let it go. But it does seem to be a possibility for Byleth to talk some sense into her. If there is going to be any hope for this conflict to be resolved without war and all, she needs to stop regarding Edelgard as unforgivable, she should be willing to forgive her past transgressions and actually hear her out. Edelgard needs to do the same, there is simply a lot she doesn't know and Rhea could provide that information, Edelgard could possibly change your mind about a lot of things once she has more knowledge about what truly happened. Forgiveness from both sides here is key, vengeance, so-called "justice" which some people call it, the principle of eye for an eye, the desire for a transgressor to be punished, it often times does nothing but escalate a situation. As long as one side insist on punishment for the other, there is no hope for peace. Even then, they do need to deal with both a slither in the dark, but if they actually talk to each other. I think they will both find that they both are not very pleased with the nobles abusing the crest system. But I can only really see this happening in a universe where Byleth is close to both Edelgard and Rhea.
What is your opinion of Edelgard anyway? Surely you don't believe she's an absolute monster with no hope of redemption? I don't believe this about Rhea, even if I do heavily disagree with her ideology.
I have no opinion on edelgard or Rhea if you look at any other route other than crimson flower you could say a edelgard the complete monster if you look at crimson flower you get the same exact thing for Rhea but in the end every time they have large forces on their side cuz people believe I know good or bad doesn't matter like I said at the very end all of the endings and up achieving the same thing this is why I don't prefer either one over the other cuz in the end it's going to end up being the same do I think the war was necessary hell no edelgard could have talked with people and Rhea should have stop living in the past if one of the two did one of those things at one point in the story The games events would of never happened it would have been US versus those who slither in the dark and that's the tragedy of the game that this is completely 100% avoidable
that's actually another thread about what if a edelgard never attack the church so they all come up with this headcanon of Rhea suddenly attacking a empire her for no reason saying that if they turn their back on crest then she's just going to attack even though everything in the game tells them otherwise in the very end people will have their favorites and they will demonize there enemies edelgard and Rhea especially because they're literally the same person if a edelgard was put in the same situation as Rhea she would end up doing the exact same thing the same thing could be said if rhea switch places with edelgard that's the exact reason why the Black eagle route is split between the two the game is trying to tell us that they're the same
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Church wouldn't do absolutely anything because the empire already got rid of the church in the empire so they wouldn't they already have no influence there eldeguard is the first emperor attend the officer's academy and five generations
I think you are all overestimating rhea's devotion to the church as long as no one's trying to kill anybody I don't think she really cares there was a king inside of Ferguson that was trying to do the same thing remember and what look what happened to him it wasn't the church that killed him
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I like to put down that the religion existed before Rhea she just amplified it an ealdguard never called Rhea the false goddess she's talking about sothis cuz every time she says it Rhea is already captured
And are you trying to say that the beast call him King you do know after he dies he says he got liberated right He's literally saying he was liberated from life I think the metaphor is mixed by the game standard and by what we saw Nemesis was a villain in a horrible person and they used the book for anything to try and describe him as a hero is head canon at best and you should get your head checked out
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On 2/21/2020 at 12:07 AM, Darkmoon6789 said:
this is the one good thing about the game it creates four individually very charismatic people Rhea edelgard Dimitri and Claude all four of them are right but all of them are wrong at the same exact time they're all good and evil depending on how you look at them look at the behavior some of you all have about them you praise them to high end and you dismiss the others vehemently if any of them go against the person that you're rooting for each one of them are actual leaders that in real life could realistically have a great army on their side or you know get killed it's the one good thing about this game and that's why I think all of the endings being peace seems really stupid since they want them to be so realistically modern in their military tactics and well rule it just seems weird personally I don't like any of the Lord's because if you really look at it all of this could have been ended with talking if edelgard talked to Dimitri or Claude war wouldn't have happened if she talked to Rhea the war wouldn't have happened if Rhea told the truth she probably would have been turned into a weapon or the war wouldn't have happened one is an unmovable object and the other is an unstoppable force and in the end everyone else loses
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24 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:
Would it be better if all the endings stated that no one actually achieved anything and that the war was always completely pointless? I never got the impression that Edelgard would allow the poor to starve or the weak to die, at least not crimson flower Edelgard(things her Azure Moon counterpart says can't necessarily be applied to other routes as here, she lacks certain people to influence her in the right direction), rather I would think that she wants for those who are capable to use their talents to better the lives of everyone in society. Edelgard's system has a way of upwards mobility that just isn't present in the ideal societies of the other lords, with the possible exception of Claude. If even a poor commoner could rise as high as Emperor, people would never be stuck in their current roles, and you could imagine what happens when a formally poor commoner does become Emperor. Presumably he would make policies to benefit the poor because he would know what it is like to be in that position. As such, it is uncertain how long this government will even have an Emperor as it might develop in a democratic direction with time. Edelgard herself doesn't even stay in power for all that long as she abdicates the throne after she deals with the slitherers. What happens to the society does depend on the nature of this successor, but Edelgard does state that when it comes to her successor. She seeks someone who is in her words "capable and kind". It might be a slow change, but I do think that Edelgard might have laid the foundation for a much better society. Either that or it just goes back to being a aristocracy within a few generations, and the entire war was pointless. I think that Edelgard abdicates the throne because she is well aware of that she inherited her title as the leader and that is inherently contradictory to her ideology, she thinks the imperial line should end with her, blood will no longer determine who is fit for rulership. Yes, there will be rebellions, that is unavoidable, but hopefully with time, people would realise that their life under the new Empire is actually drastically better than it used to be and the rebellions would die down over the generations.
The funny thing with that is that Edelgard after giving up the throne would just be a regular citizen in the Empire she created, she wouldn't have any titles or anything to stand above a normal commoner, because thanks to her there is no division between commoner and noble any more. You really think she would make it difficult for a subset of the population she would soon join?
And yes, I am well aware of the potential flaws in my thinking, but doesn't mean I don't understand the mindset or why someone would do what Edelgard did, it is a massive risk, but the idea of just sitting by and doing nothing also doesn't sit right with me. Sometimes I grow impatient with the injustices in the world and just want them to be gone. The thing is, if I actually did manage to conquer a world, I probably should undo my own power after it is done to avoid absolute power corrupting me. You will need power to unite, but in peacetime. That will be less necessary. It would be conceivable to go back to a democratic system, at least once your subjects are properly educated and actually understand their own best interest. People not understanding that is usually the biggest drawback to democracy.
You're right she does end up saying that in the azure Moon route only but just like Claude and Dimitri her system is bound to fail her merit system is completely flawed and yes I would like for the endings to end up saying that there weren't everlasting peace That's a cop out I mean Ash virtually gives the exact reason why none of these routes would ever work inside the end when fighting edelgard he literally says you've took our land you've took our king you've took our people what else is there left for you to take it adds realism to this game at least instead of all three endings haven't never achieved everlasting peace it's cheap
Well yes thinking about injustice in the world waiting isn't a good idea The idea of saying that mine way is better than yours is completely unjustified this is where the similarities with Hitler comes from with a lot of people. people only think about the Jewish part of world war II and Hitler but in the very end Hitler was a guy who was in world war I saw his country lose all a massive debt as people were dying all around from being poor and sorry and how the world was just taking their money letting their country die and he decided I'm going to get us all back together That's how he became a leader for them he gave them what they want in the end they thought they were going to end up with better lives after the crap they had to deal with after world war I he even said that he'll make the world a better place Heck he hated white people in America because he thought they were weak That's why I never understand why they say Nazi here Hitler hated Americans just because he had the few good ideas doesn't make it right to go to someone else's land to say You're doing everything wrong and no one's happy so I'm going to take over in that I will make them happy and if you end up fighting back that is a cost I'm willing to make if everyone on your side dies fighting cuz not many people are willing to surrender to a foreign power easily look at Japan it took a nuke for them to stop
what would have made edelgard's route better is her trying to create change and someone challenging it it's better to set an example of peace and good then rather than forcing it down someone's throat because forcing someone into your life isn't good why should they be forced into slavery of your society
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1 hour ago, Darkmoon6789 said:
Sometimes I wonder if their trauma could be used as a way for Edelgard and Dimitri to bond if they took their turns explaining their experiences. They should be able to relate to eachother to some degree
I am not so sure soverignity deserves to be respected if it leads to the oppression. Women are considered second class citizens in many islamic countries, gay people and people who deconvert from the religion are killed, there was even a case a girl being stoned to death for being raped. Not to mention the abuses of the North Korean goverment. This to me is unacceptable. If we have the power to change these systems, then we are culpable for letting these abuses against human rights continue. Many people will continue to suffer if we do nothing. This is not violating the rights of people, we would free them from the violations done against them by their own goverments
In my view it is more important that our leaders are capable and good than what nation we belong to is. To conquer in order to liberate is the Edelgard way.
I relate to Edelgard in many ways, one of them is a flaw we both share. We both have a tendency to shoulder responsibility for the entire world, even if we should not be expected to fix everything wrong with the world just by ourselves. It is a hopeless task that leads to despair over the futility of it all. Yet I can't help to admire her for trying. Something I will never have the power to do
Sorry for the politics, but it is hard to avoid when Edelgard is such a political character.
yeah but the problem with that type of thinking is once you think about it why not just be God of the world it leads to just pure dictatorship you think you know best for everyone else so they should live the way that you say they should hell her system is all about merit improving themselves to the emperor so they can end up inside of a good position The weak die and the strong live That's the type of world edelgard wants to live in Dimitri creates the world that's closest to a democracy and even then it still sounds horrible if it wasn't for the fact that every ending stated that they all achieved peace then no one will actually believe half of these endings achieved anything The games just sugarcoating it for usClaude is the closest one that gives us any type of society that shows natural progress honestly of course people wouldn't accept him becoming the ruler and he'll leave it to the main character they have influence in the church it's easier for people to trust them and in him after the war is over Claude goes back to his own country and creates diplomatic ties it's a long process but it sounds a lot better than suddenly I won the war in the other side loves me now even though I kill every a bunch of people over there and told them that I'm their new ruler after they're killing their king or queen doesn't work that way
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I meant attended the academy as in was a student edelgards mother was a student her father wasn't
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Honestly the church edelgard and those who slitter in the dark all have a false history Rhea by her own admission was virtually a child when Nemesis killed her race so how could she really know everything edelgard is using a history told from emperors from the beginning of their empire for all we know Rhea never told them the truth behind why they were fighting nemesis and they also could have been influenced by those who slitter in the dark but The most important thing is that the empire and the church don't get along with each other they blame them for the kingdom and alliance so there's a good chance that one emperor just decided to change everything to spite them one day and those who slither in the dark the only thing we have for confirmation with them is nemesis was bandit
The only person alive who should know everything that's happened is Seteth realistically
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1 minute ago, Darkmoon6789 said:
Well, I did a quick within a week and joined this site instead. I was recommended this one by a friend of mine
I actually read the game as saying the complete opposite, all of the Lords are good people, they are just also flawed. Edelgard shows that there are humanity in conquerors and that they can believe what they are doing is right and that they are not necessarily motivated by gaining personal power. Dimitri is ultimately a good guy brought low by his emotional trauma and the need to find a scapegoat to be able to handle it, ultimately being able to overcome his trauma and becoming a better person. I actually have trouble finding much flaw with Claude at all, he is the schemer but a good-natured one. I have heard the argument that the game is about that, even in a time of war and death that your ties to other people is still the most important.
I won't lie it sounds better than what I said but I'm also pretty nihilistic so that may be where most of it's coming from
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I think she knows about it but there's pretty much nothing she could do The empire really doesn't have anything to do with the church at all at that point remember that edelgard is like the first ruler of the empire to come to the academy in like 10 generations I think it's not like she could just walk over and tell them to stop
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I like to put down something The manifest was most likely a note saying surrender or die I mean guys even if the church surrendered she still would have attacked the kingdom and the alliance she wanted to unify the continent she didn't want separate governments The game is a message about how war is evil virtually none of the lords are good people at all we're not supposed to be cheering for any of them really we're just supposed to be going through the motions because in the very end all of them end up achieving peace so that none of them are better than the other
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Honestly instead of Edelgard I think if anyone went back in time it should be Rhea because she is the only one who really has the ability to talk Dimitri from being crazy and having a ability to get all three of the Lord's to even converse with each other as much as edelgard hates her she's still a student there in the not be suspicious she'll show up to a meeting The main character and Rhea could tell them about the situation I also think it would be best to include sothis I mean she came from a far away land they could have a story that in the future of falling God had came chasing her and that's why she had went the Fodlan in the first place
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The problem is Edel's ideals and how her post-war system just culminates into basically nothing noteworthy, she wants to abolish the nobility but hands land back to former nobles in their endings, while also keeping the emperor title alive and legitimizing it further.
It does however make sense if we take Claude's notion that she is naive at face value, because she certainly is regarding her system. The Empire did work very well. But the point is that what she says she wants and what she does are polar opposites.
"I'm going to discard the old system of people fighting over power and instead appoint myself as queen of the new meritocratic order I'm establishing. Also all my friends are a part of my cabinet as are their lineages. But it's totally merit based I swear!"
Also there was much nepotism that took place in the Empire and many Emperors were related but so distant it didn't count. That's really the main reason why for me Dimitri > Edelgard.
The big problem with a meritocracy is....just because someone has "merit" doesn't mean he isn't a total jerk with little care for the normal people. Technically the only thing a "good ruler" needs to do is to be an effective ruler, meaning to prevent disorder/anarchy/rebellion, how this is done is subjective so trampling the weak so hard they can't fight back or brainwashing them to a point they think they are well even though they aren't are legitimate ways to rule. They are absolutely horrible ways but it's shown that it can work . And we have absolutely zero ideas what those "reforms" are (except for public education provided Ferdinand survives, which is a step in the right direction, but not enough). She wants to be Emperor and to have the power to appoint who works for her/succeeds her rather than those positions being inherited. In essence, it's a trickle down power structure. She didn't even think about giving commoners an education until Ferdinand brought it up 5 years into the war, since she believes those with strength will naturally rise to the top.
In essence, her government is ripe for all sorts of problems. People will suck up to those in power in hope of being granted power, but anyone who is shown favor becomes a target for assassinations. We also saw with Caspar's grandfather that just because someone is free to choose their successor, it doesn't mean the best person will get the job. Hell, people have been arguing about Edelgard restoring the nobility status of those who followed her by saying examples like Bernie (especially paired with Felix) and Caspar show she herself is not picking the best people.Her A support with Ferdinand gives me chills, honestly. Edelgard wants to destroy basically the backbone of society... and hasn't though of something to replace it. Ferdinand has to remind her that she needs a substitute
It honestly feels like Edel is making s*** up as she goes... Which I don't see working for establishing a working long-term society. Her whole plan reeks of " Let's overthrow the tyrant and create a good ol' power vacuum for a worse tyrant instead ".
Then again, I'm french, and failed revolutions is something my country is famous for, so maybe I'm biased > -
1 hour ago, iavasechui said:
How many people would have been massacred just for being a crest descendant if she didn’t revise history look what happened to the innocent descendants of the lopt bloodline in fe4
That's what a lot of people aren't talking about we see someone that didn't have their crest praised and their life is completely awful
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Edelgard achieves "unification" by literally killing everyone in existence who disagrees with her ideals. Achieving peace because everyone who wasn't a puppet to the empire was killed.
Of all four ending banners, only on Crimson Flower's are there people depicted who are in agony.Not only that, but the GD and Seiros flags are trampled on the ground. That definitely symbolizes them being conquered. The BL flag is on the back of someone. I'm not sure if that represents that the Kingdom is still resisting in some way, or if it was just meant to show that those people represent the people of the Kingdom. And there are plenty of drawn weapons, showing ongoing conflict or use of force. -
I will put this out there but this is about Edelgard this is why I don't like talking about her or Rhea because the conversation just turns in the complete chaos. Everyone will bring up the other character saying they're worse than them and it gets absolutely nowhere.
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also we have no idea how the 10 elite got into power but we do know that the saints did not like that idea and that they didn't even want them to live
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Just going to put this here for anyone that says it's okay for either guard or to take over the kingdom and saying that the church is the only reason they splitThe Empire had lost the war already. Loog would have continued on his merry way and conquered all of it if not for the Church stepping in to prevent so much needless bloodshed.
What you're saying is probably the vision Edelgard has though. She's bathed in propaganda and lies since she was little. She's still too young and proud to be mature enough to realise her misconceptions. -
6 hours ago, Alexios Blake said:
Martin Luther the founder of today’s Protestantism truly nice comparison. I completely agree with what you said, Reah should have left the stage of history after the founding of the church or at least shouldn’t have kept such a „hands of“ approach. About the rest that you wrote there is nothing I can ad just about Edelgard. Among the discussion about her that I have seen so far she was described with a plethora of word, mostly negative ones, but what I see seldom is revolutionary. That’s exactly what she is, a revolutionary out to break the order of the false goddess that has kept the continent under her fist while building a society whose very core was corrupted. Heck not only the church she even wants to abolish nobility, though in a single reign a bit impossible she lays the groundwork for it by not choosing one of her children but one who she deems as competent as her successor for the throne, thus promoting a meritocratic mindset. And as it’s not rare with revolutionaries she has to combine her strength with those who should normally be destroyed after all revolutions are revolts of the weak versus the strong, and without help they wouldn’t be able to complete their goal.
I'm sorry Martin Luther King are you talking about him as a comparison because if you are I kind of feel offended by that they are nothing alike at all the two characters that y'all keep talking about are are literally the same type of person Y'all keep saying that one is worse than the other but they both do the exact same thing they alter history so that so they can actually seem good and the other side looked bad and they completely willing to just kill anyone that gets in their way and they're willing to use human shields the difference is that one of them has way better motives than the other one of them was literally a puppet forced to do what they wanted to do even if it really wasn't their idea and the other half had there entire race slaughtered but a few of them and got revenge and led to a thousand years of peace they're both pretty much the same That's why they let you pick between the two neither one of them are a saint they're both chaotic neutral at best and at worst just flat out chaotic
What if Azure Moon Dimitri would meet Crimson Flower Edelgard
in Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Posted · Edited by jawaunw
Honestly I'm not going to agree with the crimson flower part here in part because both edelgard and Rhea are complete idiots very impulsive idiots my add
Both of them have very short fuses in crimson flower doesn't change that much about that from edelgard it makes her softer but it doesn't make her any less impulsive or an idiot well at the end of all three routes Rhea is much more cool and has the main character as a literal blocking point simply because she gave up on her mother if this was before the end of part one I could see the problem but not after the end of any of the routes
Azure Moon would be safer simply because Dimitri wouldn't kill her on site edelgard I can see absolutely killing or injuring him badly during the very first encounter simply because she wouldn't want the kingdom citizens to think their king came back
I mean look at Rhea throughout the game and you'll see that she's nothing but an idiot I mean most of the suspicious stuff people point out about her is completely by coincidence I mean the officers academy inside the center of the continent well that what looks suspicious and paint well in the edelguard suspicions of her separating the kingdom and alliance on purpose oops too bad The only reason that it's right there is simply because that's where her people were buried I swear most of the games things with her is completely through idiots crimson flower has the two characters talking on multiple occasions but they're having two completely different conversations
Edelgard it's too busy trying to paint Rhea as an evil monster Satan and Rhea is missing two gallons of milk in a jug like she's completely crazy do you want to know the actual proof of them having two different conversations look no better than the final battle of crimson flower edelgard it's too busy trying to say that she hates humanity when at not one point in the entire game and I swear they did it on purpose rhea never said she hates humanity ever.
even her final conversation she never said she hates humanity she just talks about them betraying her mother her mother and the goddess was literally and virtually the only thing she talked about to edelgard she was cracked like an idiot and probably had no idea what the hell she was doing she had to be put down like an actual dog because there was nothing left for her to do