FionordeQuester

It's still under your control, however. Goht has a pretty simple quick kill method I could show you if you like, on N64. Perhaps that'll help? Sure, but you can please as many you can. Me, for example, I loved the original N64 version, and ended up liking this one even more. What I got out of that was that they were designing it for both groups of people, not just one. Hence their talk about preserving the original challenge, and preserving that sense of time running out. All I'll say on this point is that the changes they made were logical in my mind. Had they left Deku & Zora Link alone, tested the Twinmold fight more thoroughly, and maybe expanded the amount of places the Ice Arrows worked (if that wasn't too much play-testing), I would've said that every single change was for the better. Better for gameplay, anyway. You need it to get a picture of a female pirate. Speaking of which...make sure you get a good shot of her face. The N64 requires that for the fisherman to accept the photo. The 3DS allows you to take it however you want. Indeed. Wouldn't know—never played past Twilight Princess. ...Hmm. You're right—I'm using quotation marks incorrectly. I'd used them to summarize an idea, rather than as direct quotes, but that's not correct. Sorry for the confusion & frustration. Still, what is a bad gamer, but someone who blames the game rather than themselves? Doesn't your presumption about their philosophy necessarily make them bad gamers? As they should. That's how to properly remake a game, IMO.

Lol, yeah, that was an old movie, eh? Was wondering if anyone'd remember that! That about sums up my thoughts on the remake, yeah 🙂 . Indeed. What reason is that, out of curiosity? I can't think of what it'd be. I see. Well, if you wish, you could beat up Goht, do the Powder Keg exam, start another cycle, then get the Romani Mask. Then, start a cycle after that, SoDT to 6PM, beat up Goht again, drink the Chateau, then do the race. That's an option 🙂 . The comparison I'd use is that the way they made their hamburgers was liked by some customers, disliked by others. So, they changed the recipe in a way that'd attract the other customers, while hoping they kept what the old customers like about the old recipe. One of the reasons I liked 3DS regardless. Having the Ocarina & Pictograph mapped separately was a big help, as was having four slots instead of three! Meh, I liked it well enough. My only problem was that the nerf also affected overworld travel. I would've just removed some lily pads, if I were Grezzo. Pretty much. That's not what Grezzo's design philosophy was—not according to them, at least. Again, if they're the sorts of gamers that'd complain about lily-hopping being too hard, why were fine with having Goron travel drain their magic? Fine with adding magic drain to Zora travel? And fine with all of the fairly difficult mini-games? Whatever problems they may have, it doesn't look like "bad gaming skills" are one of them. They understand the importance of having challenge in their games.. It's why my approach to ramping up the difficulty would've been different—I'd just decrease the amount of lily pads while keeping Deku movement the same.

That's ok—I've done the same since the start. I thought it made it harder in a good way. It's challenge I can blame myself for failing, rather than the game. It is not. Apart from what you mentioned, the game rubber-bands you. The faster you go, the faster they go! It's what I'd do, if I were remaking an old classic. Not in all the specific ways they did, but the idea is sound. Good example—I also like what Project Restoration did with the transformation masks and the Elegy of Emptiness! Deku Link's movements were almost certainly nerfed to make the platforms a bigger challenge. Zora Link...well, that was probably also for consistency with Goron Link. Also had the nice added effect (in their minds) of making the Beaver Race a tiny bit harder. Depends on how it's done, I say. I think if they were that pathetic as gamers, they would've just made the Goron Roll have infinite magic (instead of making Zora Link use more)...or kept the Inverted Song of Time's original potency...or added more time to the Beaver Race...or made pretty much all the mini-games easier (instead of leaving every one of them untouched). Deku Link hopping was incredibly easy in N64, for me. I had to be significantly more careful, in the 3DS. I actually enjoyed the challenge, honestly. I was just afraid to bring it up till now, because I wasn't sure if it was intentional or not. Now I am 🙂 !

Thanks for bringing that up—that's gonna tie into that epiphany. So then! You guessed correctly! Grezzo also added magic pots in the Beaver Race mini-game to compensate for this. That's just the thing—it wasn't unintended! They nerfed Deku Link on purpose, play-tested it, and then adjusted the lily pads as needed. I was finally able to confirm this after reading a Reddit post by the Project Restoration guy: So apart from fixing that shortcut (which didn't need nerfed hopping), it was indeed an attempt at adding challenge to the 3DS version, along with the nerfed Inverted Song of Time, most of the re-worked bosses (sans Oldolwa, since he come 1st), and Fast Zora Swimming burning magic. Presumably, this was to counter-balance some of the other changes they made to streamline the experience. This way (in their minds), they could confidently say that their version is just as hard as the N64 (without being obtuse ). https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/Iwata-Asks-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Majora-s-Mask-3D/The-Legend-of-Zelda-Majora-s-Mask-3D/6-Every-Boss-Stage-is-Weird-/6-Every-Boss-Stage-is-Weird--959902.html So for better or worse, every change they made was completely intentional and play-tested. That in mind, I can't see any other reason for nerfed Deku Hopping other than "added challenge".

It's interesting you bring that up. Speedrunners have told me that one of the weird quirks in OG Majora's Mask was that there were no cardinal directions mapped, unlike Ocarina of Time. You couldn't go exactly up, down, left, or right—there was always an angle of at least one degree. If you don't believe me, try Z-Targeting while walking up against a wall, or flipping the stick directly down. For most categories, it's only a slight annoyance—it's a deal breaker, however, in heavily glitched ones. 3DS didn't fix the issue with Up, Left, or Right, but they did fix the issue with Down. Backwalking is easier, if nothing else—enough so that heavily glitched categories will use it for set-ups. Interesting factoid, eh?

Yeah. You can do it in the early evening as well. Admittedly, this is where my power-gamer tendencies might be biasing me. You've seen for yourself how methodical and organized I like being in my LPs, right 😄 ?

Eight, out of how many?

Wasn't that sort of how it was, regardless? That most time triggers are easy to fast-forward to? The only exceptions I can think of are... 1) Anju's Midnight Meeting (12 AM to 6 AM on Day) 2) The Hand Wants Toilet Paper (12 AM to 6 AM) 3) Sakon the Thief (1:15 AM on Day 1, cannot easily get by skipping to 6 PM) 4) Kamaro the Dancer (12 AM to 4 AM, cannot easily get by skipping to 6 PM) 5) The Aliens at Romani Ranch (2:30 to 3:00 AM before Romani loses, cannot easily get by skipping to 6 PM) 6) Milk Bar (10 PM to 6 AM, cannot easily get by skipping to 6 PM) 7) The Curiosity Shop (10 PM to 6 AM on Day 3 after foiling Sakon, cannot easily get by skipping to 6 PM) 8) Couple's Mask (5 AM to 6 AM, spat to 12 AM after getting the Sun Mask back) That's like, what, three things I couldn't either spam the Song of Double Time for, or bash out in one clean sweep? It's what I always did after getting the Chateau de Romani bottle and Powder Keg—start another cycle, use Granny to trigger Midnight Meeting, do the mini-games, then just chain the first five together so I could stop worrying about 'em 😛.

I disagree with this. Yes, you can always skip forward—but the downside is that you cannot get those hours back. Think of "Click", and how much anguish the main character experienced because he kept fast-forwarding through his life. If I truly want to maximize what I want to get done in each cycle, I have to be very careful in using it. This is especially true in a game where they nerfed the Song of Inverted Time. Do you think this might've been why they weakened its effect?

Oh it's in the original game too—sorry I forgot to specify 😛 ! That's part of why I never liked the "Link is dead" theory. It makes the story end in defeat, if you think of it that way! Aw... I love that 🙂 .

But what's the in-universe reason for such an occurrence? Over-analytical guys like me are never satisfied with just out-of-universe answers xD! Indeed! One of my favorite changes as well. Say, I had an epiphany on why Deku & Zora were changed like they were. It's...well it's not a good reason, but it's a reason, with a semblance of logic behind it. Wanna hear it?

For what it's worth, the Happy Mask Salesman actually has a brief bit of expanded dialogue in the ending, if you got the following masks... 1) Postman's Hat 2) Kamaro's Mask 3) Great Fairy's Mask 4) Romani's Mask 5) Blast Mask 6) Bunny Hood 7) Circus Leader's Mask 8) Bremen Mask 9) Couple's Mask It's something along the lines of "My, you sure made a lot of people happy. I can feel it radiating off these masks", or something like that.

Well, me personally, I'm never against giving the player more choices. If that's how they want to do it, more power them. I edited my post since then—they all work, so long as you get Oldolwa from behind while he's dancing. Bubble blasts stun, and Deku Spins do damage. They don't look different to me. Well, other than that N64 is pointy, while 3DS is smooth, but that's a given. Huh. Good observation!

Eh, give it 5 days. If there's still no one else posting, then...yep, you killed it xD!

It's pretty clever, isn't it? That you can fight him an easy but slow way, or fight him in several faster, but more difficult, ways? EDIT: Just checked! They all work! Bubble Blasts stun him, and Deku Spins damage him! You gotta make sure he's not shielding though, like I did in my video. Huh...interesting. That's probably what it is, really. That, or the moon's just always really massive, and making different faces. Blast. And I'd already traded in the eggs...

I agree with every single point, and this one really would've been beautiful. It would make "A New Day" more than just a still screen!

Hmm... Alright, I see. I'll leave out the "play it yourself" talk when I disconfirm future points. Fair enough. If that's the case, then I need to apologize. Could you please forgive me? That wasn't my intention, but my words are still my responsibility. Sure. How do you like what I've chosen?

Fair enough. I see. Well said. I have thoughts on that, but I'm not sure if it's good to share 'em here or in the thread I made. What do you think?

...Well, ok, it had a good script localization🤣! I really should've clarified! And yeah, I don't know when I'm gonna start X3, but it'll be my pleasure to share my thoughts!

Vanguard333 expressed a desire to keep his thread about the GCN version: Therefore, I have made this one for if he wishes to continue debating with me. With that said... But in this specific case, you haven't played Majora's Mask 3DS. That's why most of your criticisms had to be prefaced with "I heard this..." and "I heard that...", even before I entered your thread. I don't see how you could have formed an opinion on it, unless you're repeating what you've been told by Nerrel and others. With that in mind... This case is different from those others. You (presumably) watched the movie you voiced your criticisms on, without any antecedent bias. But now, in your GCN thread, you have explicitly acknowledged (even before I entered the thread) that you have not played the 3DS version...yet have harshly criticized it. How can I be one of those people you encountered, when this scenario is so different? I'm not saying your thoughts aren't your own—I'm saying they're built upon faulty sources. I also think that expressing a strong negative opinion on something tends to invite guys like me, who're willing and able to challenge what you say. Assuming you choose to argue with them (as you chose to do with me), it's helpful to be able to back up your arguments with personal experience. Does that make sense?

Before discussion starts up again, I want to be clear, in case Vanguard is nervous at all. I have absolutely no ill will toward you, or anyone else who prefers the N64. Just the opposite—you appear to be like me: Someone who enjoys analyzing and critiquing all the media he consumes. I do the same in each and every one of my Let's Plays. However, the 3DS remake of Majora's Mask is one of the most misunderstood remakes I can remember coming across. I see people complaining about problems that (for the most part) literally don't exist. That, and making mountains out of molehills about the few that do. Even the phrasing people use is strangely uniform—as though I'm hearing one person's voice out of multiple different people. I don't know why that is, but I suspect clickbait videos like Nerrel's play a part. If I seem unusually blunt, it's because I'm trying to encourage you—as strongly as I know how (without being a jerk)—to play the 3DS yourself, or compliment your research with words from someone who both likes the 3DS version and has played it to completion. It's not just a personal plea—it's also advice from one analyst to another. You understand where I'm coming from, now?

...Huh. Yeah, it looks like even Song of Time doesn't bring 'em back. So I suppose that glitch'd only be possible with...well, glitches.

Hmm...wait. Crud, there was a big one I missed—Great Bay Region after you beat Gyorg (not before). You can do some pretty funky things with this, and Mikau, as it turns out: So I guess it's a matter of "is it worth it"? I'll admit that platforms everywhere would have been cool...but I can also see why they wouldn't want to take extra time play-testing a feature that would have minimal practical use (since I'll want to conserve my magic).

What about the Pirate's Fortress? I did think of that, as well...but I also think you would've had to test everything to make sure you didn't break something. Like, say...the new fishing mini-game they added in...or stuff like this:

Sure. It does—however, I imagine there are others who believed the Inverted Song of Time was too strong in N64. So, while I personally dislike the nerf, I don't think either of us can hold it against the 3DS. At most, we can call it a decision we both disagree agree with. That was one of his complaints, sure. But, I came away from his video with the impression that he was also saying they worked everywhere—that N64's Ice Arrows encouraged exploration and experimentation in a way that 3DS does not (which is hogwash). I apologize to him if that wasn't what he meant. Either way, it's nice to finally have a visual cue for what water I can freeze, and what water I can (especially since I'm under a time limit). True—but I also think it would have looked silly to have an entire boss room surrounded in bright yellow sparkles. Maybe that's why they made that exception? Because then I'm wondering "what's different about the water itself?". At least with their way, I know "sparkly water freezes, normal water does not". Hmm...I think it's just practice? Again though, I don't usually bother—especially since Deku Nuts are lost so easily to the Song of Time.