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RainbowMoon

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    They/Them
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    Three Houses

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    Niles (Cipher)

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  1. Yeah, I suppose you're right, it wouldn't have really made a difference if Aegir hadn't complied. But the fact that they could've replaced him too if that had been the case certainly does speak to their abilites. The issue with trying to determine Nemesis's merit as a leader though, is that there's no way to definitively tell how deeply the Agarthans were involved in the growth of his regime. We can only speculate based on how we see them operate within the Empire and the Kingdom, with varying opinions. I think it's safe to say though, based on what we do know about him, that Nemesis was undoubtedly determined in his not-so-noble conquest of Fódlan and had no shortage of loyal followers who seemed to genuinely believe in him. To what extent the Agarthans were responsible for this is entirely debatable, but either way I'd agree that Nemesis had a bit more in his head than your average bandit, for better or for worse.
  2. This is true, but keep in mind the example I gave was more of a logical worst case scenario than what likely actually happened. Realistically speaking though, I doubt it would've taken much more than a few strategic replacements for the Agarthans' influence to take root in Nemesis's regime without any suspicions. I mean, just look at the bloody mess they were able to make of both Adrestia and Faerghus present day with only one known mole in either territory. At the start of the game, we're looking at an Adrestian Empire that practically belongs to Thales. And the only two people who are even aware of this are Edelgard and Hubert, all because Thales blew his cover to Edelgard when performing the Crest experiments. If Thales hadn't done that, then who's to say anybody in the Empire would've ever found out about his manipulations. Well, Rhea is pretty much the poster child for "head-in-sand management" when it comes to situations, like proof of Agarthan activity or the ugly reality of the Crest system, that could potentially expose her lies. I mean, take a look at how she handled the incident that supposedly created Aliell, the Valley of Torment. Garreg Mach would've been annihilated right there and then if that javelin of light hadn't bounced off the shield and blown up where it did. And yet Rhea barely even reacts. She just bullshits up a cover story for why there's suddenly a smoldering crater adorning the Kingdom-Alliance border and continues no further investigation into what happened or who was responsible. Even if she's somehow figured out that the Agarthans are able to kill and replace whoever they please, that's certainly not something she's about to acknowledge openly. Had Aegir valued ethics over bolstering his own political clout, he could've simply refused to carry out Arundel's demands and dealt with the personal consequences. Arundel got his way there because he knew Aegir was enough of a selfish dick that he'd immediately be on board. Thales found a person in power who he could easily move with his words, and wormed his way in there like any good Agarthan would. You're absolutely right in saying she's involved herself so closely with the Agarthans' plans that it ultimately doesn't matter to the plot if she's really Agarthan or not. I was just using her specific case, should she have been the real deal, as an example of how effectively the Agarthans can play to the corrupt people in governments and persuade them to aid in their "cause." The only issue is, that at the time of Nemesis's uprising, the Nabateans really weren't ruling over anyone. Sothis's war against Agartha was long over, the remaining Agarthans had been in hiding ever since and humainity was effectively ruling itself. If memory serves me correctly, Rhea had a small church in Enbarr: a regular non-theocratic church. But otherwise the Nabateans were more or less just there, not hurting anybody. Any distrust or violence towards them at that point, like Nemesis and his followers demonstrated through their relentless slaughter, was fueled by nothing but plain old racism. No desire to be free from Nabatean rule, no feelings of oppression or betrayal, just "humans good, dragons not human, kill dragons." I think that alone says enough about Nemesis's moral compass to tell us that he lacked a proper one. As for his greater ambitions, I'm not seeing very much beyond Nabatean genocide, which is exactly what the Agarthans want. As far as I can tell, Nemesis would've had no qualms whatsoever about accepting their assistance, assuming again that he even knew about them. They literally wanted the same thing, unlike the case later on with Edelgard.
  3. Given what we know the Agarthans are capable of, I'd guess that whatever hold they may have had on Nemesis was pretty damn strong. Threats (to family and such like you mentioned) and other direct forms of leveraging aren't how the Agarthans play ball. We see a couple exceptions to this, of course, like their attempts to keep Edelgard on a leash (and like you said, we all know how that goes down). But their entire schtick for the most part is remaining invisible, working in the shadows to infiltrate governments and turn the political tide in such ways that nobody ever realizes they're being manipulated until the damage is already done. There's all the possibility that Nemesis's entire regime was riddled with Agarthan imposters; replacing all his most trusted advisors, generals, vassals, servants and God knows who else to secretly influence his every tactical, political and economic decision; and he didn't even know it. The place could've been the Agarthan Empire in all but name, while Nemesis sat on his throne sipping blood out of a skull and not suspecting a thing. That's how the Agarthans are able to sieze power so effectively. Shapeshifting is terrifying when placed in the wrong hands. Duke Aegir wasn't replaced, though. And look at what sort of atrocity he was persuaded to greenlight, simply because he was a corrupt enough man and "Lord Arundel" told him to. Also, are we certain that Cornelia was replaced too? I know that Dimitri and a couple of NPCs mention that there was a shift in her personality a while back. But we also know that Cornelia first came to the Kingdom in Year 1165, when Dimitri would've only been two years old, and that three years later (1168) she'd already kidnapped Hapi and was performing experiments on her. Unless she was replaced at some point during that three year span and little four-year-old Dimitri somehow picked up on a difference in her personality, then I'd assume that the "shift" everybody noticed happened some bit of time later, as it seems like she was up to no good from the moment she set foot in the Kingdom. She also, unlike Tomas and Monica, never made any kind of suspicious disappearance. My guess is that she was another one along the lines of Duke Aegir, a crappy person all along (and good at hiding it) who the Agarthans had no trouble convincing to do their dirty work in the Kingdom. As the years went on, maybe her "kindly court mage" facade started to crack, and that's when Dimitri and everyone else picked up on a noticeable shift. Edelgard had two things though, that Nemesis didn't appear to. A moral compass, and greater ambitions. Not to mention a personal vandetta with the Agarthans for the Crest experimentation they did on she and her siblings. Friendly cooperation was never in the cards there. Nemesis didn't seem to have as many hangups, and again that's assuming he was even aware of the Agarthans' presence. Adding to that, it was also a necassary step in order for Rhea to sucessfully establish the Crest system. The 10 Elites, being the first Crest bearers, needed to be presented as something akin to paragons of humanity in Rhea's falsified version of history, so that future generations would buy into her whole "gifts from the goddess" spiel. The Nabateans they killed on the other hand, would've either needed to be vilified, or redacted from history altogether. Rhea chose the former, as it seems, because the slaying of "evil gods" sounded like another good testament to the Elites' heroism.
  4. You're right, I'd forgotten about Maurice. I so rarely use the SotC on Byleth nowadays, I didn't even recall any unique dialogue related to it. So at the very least it seems we've got some solid proof that Nemesis was in fact an actual king. The extent to which he was a puppet king, however, remains unclear. Like I said, his success and 150 year reign may in fact have been the work of the Agarthans. As we see from the way they influence the Empire and the Kingdom in present day Fódlan, the Agarthans have a habit of remaining invisible to the public as they covertly sway the decisions of major political leaders (e.g. Duke Aegir, Cornelia). Nemesis's followers, including the 11 Elites, wouldn't have even had a clue that their king was secretly being coerced by a couple of shriveled old grey dudes (who'd probably killed and replaced his most trusted advisors) and reasonably assumed that Nemesis was responsible for his own success as a ruler. In other words, Maurice may be the closest thing we have to a reliable source regarding Nemesis's status, but he may not have had the clearest impression of the king's competence. Ah, I'd never thought of it that way. The "wicked gods" tale could've easily been Rhea's corruption of the Red Canyon tragedy. After all, her fake story already rewrites Nemesis and the Elites as heroes, so it makes sense that she'd also try to put a villainous spin on the other Nabateans who Nemesis so "valiantly" genocided. His supporters would've seen that as "liberation", because they were against the Nabateans and probably felt "oppressed" by their presence.
  5. I certainly don't doubt the scale of his conquest, though I do question how much of his campaign; food, supplies and morale included; was actually achieved by his own merit. A boisterous, loudmouthed figurehead can most definitely draw the support needed to wage a continent-wide war, as well as keep his army in high spirits. But was he a tactician? Was he skilled in the finer aspects of warfare beyond just "kill a lot of people until you get what you want"? Did he have any of the political or financial savvy necassary for managing and funding his war? He's just a bandit, how could he? These are the type of questions that lead me to suspect some Agarthan Wormtongue whispering in his ear before every major decision he makes. I got the impression that "King of Liberation" was simply another part of Rhea's elaborate lie, rather than any actual title Nemesis was given during his lifetime. Going by this quote from Seteth at the end of Ch.4, it was an entirely made-up event (his slaying of some unnamed "wicked gods") that earned Nemesis his supposed title. From there, it's possible to assume that Nemesis was never actually named a "King of Liberation" by himself or his followers, and that the title was just as much BS as the "wicked gods" story it orginated from. After all, we never once hear the resurrected Nemesis refer to himself in such a way. Seems unlikely he'd suddenly be unaware of his own title, unless it was never his to begin with. Back in the day, he may very well have been called a "butcher king" or something similar by his enemies or Felix-esque detractors. Because to Rhea, Nemesis represents something else entirely, something far more personal to her than merely a king or a bandit. Nemesis to her is the man responsible for the greatest tragedy of her life, the one who killed her mother and massacred her entire family before her eyes. When she compares Byleth to Nemesis, it's because she feels that what Byleth did is just as awful as what Nemesis did. Which at face value sounds absolutely bananas (because it kinda is), but actually makes a slight bit of sense when you look at it from Rhea's rather twisted point of view. She could definitely see Byleth choosing to side against the Church as Byleth effectively "killing" Sothis again, as in doing this she's choosing to act as her own person rather than submit to being a vessel for Sothis's resurrection. It's a pretty ridiculous comparison to make, but that's just how Rhea does. Also, if you consider the below, there's the possibility that Rhea feels as though Nemesis "betrayed" her, just as she feels Byleth did. This is purely headcanon, but certain pieces of her in-game dialogue (especially on CF) have led me to wonder if Rhea, in some small part, believes her own lies. It would most definitely be in keeping with the delusional nature of her character, and explain why she doubles down so religiously (heh) on the lies she's told, even in moments of pure, raw emotion where a lot of people would be prone to a slip-up. If this is indeed the case, then I could see Rhea, at her least composed and with bloody dreams of revenge invading her every thought, mistaking bits and pieces of her own made-up story about Nemesis for the truth.
  6. @Dark Holy Elf Here's the bit of dialogue (VW Ch.20) I was basing my speculations on: Now granted this is Rhea we're talking about, so I don't imagine this snippet reflects the whole truth of what went down between Nemesis and the Nabateans. But I think that there's enough here at least to assume that Nemesis was acting as a pawn of the Agarthans. Perhaps my Kostas comparison was a bit hyperbole, but the fact that he's described on multiple accounts (including, tellingly, Arundel's) as a mere thief/bandit who couldn't have pulled off a single well-coordinated attack on his own, let alone an entire war, leads me to believe that there was most definitely some Agarthan behind the scenes bullshittery contributing to his rise and success as a military leader. Well, he did bear the Crest of Flames and wield the Sword of the Creator, which in terms of canonical strength and renown is a big deal. That alone would contribute greatly to his historical reputation and explain why he was so difficult to get the upper hand on, even with the combined might of Seiros and the early Adrestians. The tactics used by his forces though, how they were able to persist for so long, could easily have been the Agarthans working their puppet strings in the background. We're talking about different Agarthans than the ones we see in present day Fódlan, after all. Thales and Solon were absolute idiots, yes, but these guys could've been way more skilled. Well, seeing as Rhea wants everyone to buy into her idea that Crests were originally sacred gifts from the goddess, that kinda makes the first Crest bearers out to be a pretty huge deal in Fódlan's history, being the ones supposedly worthy of the goddess's "gifts" and all. Hailing them as great heroes of the past sounds a lot better to the public ear than telling everyone they were murderers and thieves, when you're talking about the people who your beloved goddess supposedly chose to bear her sacred gifts and pass them down to future generations. As for his reputation as a "king" among his own men, this could simply be the overblown musings of an arrogant bandit boss and his boot-licking cronies. Think of the stereotypical portrayal of people like pirate captains and crime lords, with their inflated personalities and flair for theatrics. Underneath all those layers of ham, they're basically just criminals and lowlives bossing around other criminals and lowlives. But their larger-than-life image gives others the impression of someone more important than they actually are. Add that to the whole Crest of Flames/StoC deal, and you've got the perfect recipe for an egomaniac who fancies himself a king.
  7. I might be mistaken, but I kinda got the impression that the Agarthans had more to do with that than Nemesis himself. Nemesis was more or less just a useful tool (in both senses) to the Agarthans. Enough brute strength and manpower behind him to be of good service to them, but aimless and gullible enough that they could easily con him into doing whatever they wanted. The thinking and planning that went into the war effort was more likely the Agarthans pulling the strings behind the curtain, while Nemesis (whether he knew it or not) simply played out his part. I joked about him probably being dumber than Kostas, but Hero's Relic aside, they really weren't all that much diffferent from each other.
  8. This. He's basically the Agarthans' dumbass fall guy, resurrected from 1000+ years ago. Dude probably couldn't even beat Kostas at checkers, let alone conquer all of Fódlan lol
  9. Commoner > Monk > Priest > Bishop > Gremory I'll bitch at Rhea all week until she lets me crossdress as a Gremory. Or wait until the timeskip, since I know Edie wouldn't mind it at all. House: Black Eagles. I could probably be convinced to join the Blue Lions, but not the Golden Deer. And I'm definitely pulling a Hubert if Byleth goes Silver Snow. Boons: Faith and Authority. I'm much more of a follower irl, so not a huge fan of doing typical "authority" type stuff like bossing people around. But Authority in 3H also means rallies, which seem way more friendly and encouraging (at least when Annette does them lol) than anything, like teamwork rather than leadership. And the Black Eagles could really use a rallybot. Sorry Hubie, nobody's buying it. You're too much of a grouch. Banes: I imagine I'd suck pretty bad at any form of close combat, so Sword, Lance, Axe and Brawling. Heavy Armor too, no way in the hell am I strong enough to walk around in that shit lol Learned Skills: Rally Strength, Rally Speed, Rally Dexterity, Rally Movement Faith List: Heal, Nosferatu, Physic, Seraphim, Warp Reason List: Blizzard, Fimbulvetr
  10. Crappy class even on natural mages. If you wanna try magic Dimitri just for the hell of it, go with Dark Knight. Otherwise, just stick to Paladin/Wyvern Lord.
  11. I agree, Three Houses in general still feels very under-represented around here. No "I fight for..." tags for the game either, I've noticed, when Adrestia/Faerghus/Leicester/Church of Seiros would be a good set of choices to have. Flairs for Byleth (M/F), Jeralt, Seteth, Rhea, Yuri, Hubert, Dedue and maybe Flayn are all something I'd hope to see as well, but at the very least I feel the timeskip lords are a must. I like to use a Dimitri flair when I'm playing his route, but I very much prefer his timeskip design. And I'll never forgive Catherine for probably convincing him to cut his hair as a kid: Jokes aside though, do you think it might be a good idea to bring the topic to someone's attention? I thought of dropping an @ to one of the higher-ups around here but I'm not sure who's in charge of stuff like this.
  12. Damn, that's like the ideal Sniper build. Respect o.o That's definitely what I'm hoping to achieve with my Ashe. I've gotta make him the deadliest cinnaroll he can be. For Lord Lonato! And Faerghus, yeah, blah blah...
  13. It's a very, very stupid reason, I'll admit, but I was kinda stuck for a fifth skill to give him (Sniper crit spam being his end goal). I already got him Bow Prowess, Death Blow, Hit +20 and Dex +2... but I had no clue what to put in that last slot so I figured Poison Strike was at least semi-useful until he unlocks something better like Bow Crit. I suppose I could've just gone back and picked up the last two class exp for Fighter, but then I was actually kinda lazy curious what kind of weird BS he could pull off with Poison Strike, even if it's only good for a few odd situations. I decided I could afford to screw around a bit, since it's only a placeholder skill anyway lol
  14. Rhea: Yes! We do! And alleged littering too, the insolence! The real cluprit's not getting off easy though, Dimitri's gonna channel his inner timeskip self and rip Solon to shreds! You don't tell the Prince of Faerghus he didn't return that Arundel book on time, lest you pay the price!
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