FireEmblemFan3475

I've edited it now. Also, investment required to make them good is included which is why cyril and manuela are so low.

Is this the nader one?

Based on how well they have performed overall in my experience (over all routes and files I have with them) when I try to give them the best builds possible (apart from Jeritza, who Is rated low for only being there for 6 chapters and having no mastery abilities and falling off in the end of maddening). Oh yeah, this is a maddening tier list.

I am looking for comments like your earlier one, I want to discuss and/or argue about this so I can perfect it and then upload it again. I just don't want it to become to intense arguing, like my: 'lorenz is a good unit: change my mind' thread; That one has become extremely intense.

Now that, is a good and fair point, because everything in fire emblem is indeed, RANDOM. If you want to upload your own tier list here and compare and argue, feel free, because I find it fun to argue and discuss my favourite game

You havent made any points though. you've just made snide, annoying remarks whilst I'm actually writing paragraphs of argument to talk to other people. And on the occasions where I've answered you and invalidated your points, you just repeat them, except word it differently.

You are ignoring are ignoring growth rates, like you said at the beginning. Growth rates factor in and completely some of the thing you've said: marianne has 25% less defence than lorenz, meaning she will never have similar defensive capabilities, their magical capabilities differ by 10% (not much) meaning marianne only has a slight edge here. Also, if that mage is going to one round your physical unit (take raphael as an example, even though he sucks.), thats still 14 less damage taken, meaning raphael will live. So ward does help. A LOT. I may have just compared marianne to lorenz, but you really shouldn't, because both fill in different roles (for the most part), with lorenz being a magical frontliner (his own special job along with sylvain). Also, lorenz can use magic bow and frozen lance to great effect, even without being in a magical class

Actually explain why you think this before annoying me again. Also, this tier list is my opinion: there is no invalidation because none of this is based on fact; ITS MY OPINION. Also like the title says, feel free to argue

Remember that this is from my experience

I think I was wrong about petra, edelgard and maybe cyril, but for the most part I'm happy with this tier list

Everything you have just said is wrong apart from about ward

Remember this is from my experience Look up fire emblem 3h if you want to make a tier list like this https://tiermaker.com/create/fire-emblem-three-houses-characters-timeskip-spoilers-159689

A tier list based on my opinion and personal experience in maddening mode. My playstyle is slow, defensive and safe. Jeritza is rated low for reasons that I've put further down. I had to do research for the other DLC because I don't have it.

I compare lorenz with lysithea because whenever I mention lorenz on other forums, they always say that lorenz is irrelevant because lysithea exists. When I use lysithea in my comparisons, its to prove that lorenz can hold his own against these units which are completely inflexible. If you read another post in this topic I've made, the reason I think lorenz is good because of the amount of different class paths he can take and be rlly good

How does myrimidon screw his early game? It doesn't. all it does is take 5% from lorenz's already decent res. It does nothing to screw him over. It helps him not get doubled. You can just keep his goal as reason and lance, or riding or whatever build you want him to have. That doesn't change the fact that lorenz would be a good dancer. It would also help his speed a TON if you don't want to keep him in it. Depending on his build, Lorenz can be a godlike great knight. Dark bishop suffers from the same problems as gremory Paladin is an amazing class to remain in Bow knight is pretty good as well And of course dark knight and holy knight are good as well. I agree that lorenz is a jack of all traits and a master of none, but this is why he has a ton of viable class paths: because you specialize him in this class. Lysithea can only go through mage and gremory is her only good master class. Lorenz requires you to customize and master him in a certain way, making him FAR more versatile than any other unit. This is why I think lorenz is easily one of the best units in the game: Specialize him in a certain class and he'll become the best at it. Hilda is only good as fontline and marianne is only good as support. Lorenz is good in nearly everything

Also note: I don't have dlc so I can;t judge valkyrie and dark flier.

Counterpoint1: Lysithea is only good when she gets the one-shot, otherwise she will get counter-attacked and die (10% def 25% res). Lorenz bulky, with 40% defence on dark knight (I think its 40?). He can be put on the frontlines as well as attacking from a distance, making him far more versatile than lysithea. Counterpoint2: 3 uses of ragnarock, 5 uses of agneas arrow, 10 uses of sagiatte, 25 uses of fire and is also able to use weapons as well (45% str in dark knight, 55%magic). Do any of your other mages use weapons? I though not. Lysithea can have a sword for soulblade but thats unreliable at best. Counterpoint3: why would you waster money on pure water when lorenz can already use ward?! Counterpoint4: Lorenz has a high enough strength growth (and access to frozen lance) to one hit mages and physical units alike. Speed doesn't matter when you get one hit. Counterpoint5: Lorenz is the only unit in the game which can utilize both effects: the range helps a ton and Lorenz can also use pavise and aegis far better than lysithea (who happens to die when coughed at) Counterpoint6: you havent explained ANY points which support 'gremory putting dark knight to shame', so I shall list points which put gremory to shame: Less movement: Lysithea or any other gremory will always slug behind all your other units, making them harder to use if they dont have bolting, physic, fortify or any other long range spell (lysithea has none) Has to rely on magic: gremory gives a +10% to magic growth; so does dark knight! Nothing special here. If you run in to high res enemies (like the unmoveable or any boss mage), then gremory becomes entirely support (physic, fortify, heal). Lysithea has no way of being support, making her useless and requiring protection. Dark knight gives +5% strength, which gives lorenz 45% strength growth, which is considered above average. Help my defence!: Lysithea, as previously mentioned, has awful defence. Every other mage does as well. Gremory only has +10% resistance as a means of defence (lysithea will have a shaky 35%). Dark knight gives +5% defence and +10% resistance, making it far more tanky and helping lorenz in the long run

The worst units are definitely ashe, manuella, caspar, raphael and gilbert

His 50% strength and 55% magic in dark knight is amazing, and like you said, lysithea will struggle with doubling in maddening as well. Also I cant keep stressing this: lorenz is the ONLY BULKY MAGE WHO CAN BE A FRONTLINE AND SUPPORT UNIT

Just adding, his speed is average, his strength is above average, his magic is above average, and his faith list is above average. Recover is a useful heal spell paired with canto, and ward is op; don't downgrade ward, it'll be saving you left and right if you use it. The only point I give you Dayni is that you should never put him through cavalier and should only put him through paladin if you want him to be more bulky than fast (both ways work out).

What gender class access does lyithea have apart from gremory?! It's literally just handicapped dark knight with better speed and charm. Its lorenz who has gender class access (dark mage, dark bishop). Also Lysithea has roughly the same amount of spells as lorenz, meaning that point is false. Lysithea has worse defence, resistance, luck and charm than lorenz. Lysithea may kill better than lorenz, but she suffers from severe losses over lorenz: worse survivability, awful hit and might with gambits, no access to a useful relic, no support abilities (apart from warp, which requires ridiculous amounts of faith training), less movement, gender locked from dark mage line, and less versatility in combat. Lorenz has a solid 50% strength growth in dark knight as well, meaning that even if he runs out of spells, he can still fight with high str.

the pavise aegis effect does help a lot and lorenz being naturally bulky for a mage does not necessarily rely on it anyways. Also, lorenz can become an extremely viable dancer, great knight, dark bishop, dark knight and could even stay as paladin.

Make him myrimidon at the beginning for 45% speed growth and +2 speed, both of which help with doubling

Virion is considered bad by awakening standards but I always try to make him good. He makes a good father in that game too.

False, has a decent speed growth and one of his class paths mostly help with that