Senario

Getting it in part because I love nearly everything Fire Emblem and also in part because Atlus has NEVER failed me with a game. They produce consistently good games. That said I'm sure being on a Nintendo system they're going to tone things down which is unfortunate because I liked the somewhat more mature themes in other Atlus games like Catherine. That said I've been lacking in JRPG goodness and I do like my cute stuff concerning Japanese games, manga, and anime so I'm pretty excited for it. Just glad I have the special edition pre-ordered and I hope the localization hammer didn't hit the game too hard. I hate how in the United States somehow loads of violence is ok but somehow anything slightly suggestive is a problem. The game isn't even that bad imo but like the fire emblem games they keep censoring things that I'm not ok with. (granted exceptions for characters who are CLEARLY not 18, otherwise you can simply age them up and have it work. My favorite thing is when they keep it all the same but instead of it being a high school theme they are in college).

They probably think nobody can understand Japanese and would not seek to change the first one. Though It'll bug the hell out of me since I do understand and can speak a bit of it. I'd like to say that doesn't seem too bad for Barry so maybe they won't change it but Nintendo has changed things for less in the past.

I haven't even gotten to play the first game and they are making a sequel? Well I suppose there are worse things to do. I thought it would be a one time deal but honestly, more games for me to play on Nintendo systems is all good for me. They just need to avoid being completely awful which they've done pretty well at doing so far. And I still trust Atlus, they make good games generally.

Any idea how to get the max amount of crit skills on Odin in Revelations? I was thinking Gamble, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, and something else maybe Lifetaker but I would replace it if I could get another crit skill. Gamble being a problem (Not sure if you can get it through partner seal reclass into hero). Edit: whoops was confused on the purpose for the topic, My bad.

I remember those comments, that developer didn't know when to keep his mouth shut lol. He even put in a joke about Dante's white hair+hairstyle in the game to spite those people, it was not pleasant. I'd wager that the developer's attitude in this case where he was responding to fans in a...problematic manner was one of the more problematic things concerning that game. Luckily, as you said, this game does not do anything of the sort. Not everybody likes it but at the very least they see their job as simply making the game with hopefully a decent amount of people supporting it. Which is what is going on in a way. About as much support as you can expect without any advertising nowadays. Loads of Nintendo Games aren't advertised all that well lately, it definitely makes the games cheaper to produce and has a lower sales number needed to reach a profitable point...but at the same time it is difficult to get people to recognize that the game is even out as Roy and Avk mention. Some people in my family are huge Mario fans and that is the only games they really play. Basically just the platformer 2D and some 3D Mario games. But they didn't know that a new Mario game came out for the last two mario games, 3D world and Mario Maker. But on the bright side, at least they don't need to sell millions of copies to be profitable. Lots of the budget money for these big name games are funneled into advertising, both good and average games alike.

However that is not my claim. I do not claim that the "Majority of SMT and FE fans want this game". What I am saying is that it is unreasonable to assume that most didn't want the game and that is the exact reason why it didn't sell without considering other factors that could be just as important. I acknowledge that there are many factors which could have lead to this game not selling well, among them the install bases of the 3ds not equalling the Wii U and often splitting the fanbase. Which could also mean that most fans of either series do not have a Wii U, not a surprising thing as sales numbers for the 3ds far exceed those of the wii U with Japan's focus on handheld games. In addition to that, it could just not have traction among fans, though I find that claim hard to support as nobody who is satisfied with the game will be going online to talk about it. There is always going to be a vocal minority with almost anything related to media. Other possibilities being that its release date was less than ideal on the 26th, right after the holiday rush is pretty much over. But to pin it down as "fans definitely like it universally" would be interpreting what I've said wrong. My claims don't try to prove that there is one answer to everything, I just claim that it is logically difficult to decide which factor is most prevalent as it may be a single factor or many factors which contribute to the end result. To showcase which one it is you would need a poll or more specific stats. This is basic logic imo. I don't hide that I personally like this game and want to get it, but I have an issue when people dislike the game and spew hate to see who agrees with them when they could just ignore the game. On DmC, I did not personally like the direction of the game but I looked at the previews/gameplay then decided just to simply not buy it. I instead spent that money on Bayonetta 2 and the original Bayonetta which is how it should be, you move on when it doesn't interest you to the point that you have very little good to say(neutral is fine). People who don't like this game should just go look at the mainstream games in both SMT and FE that are coming out fairly soon after last I heard and go buy those, not spend their time seeing how many people agree with their dislike of a game. He is by far not "hopping onto my knees", we disagree at some parts but I can see after his latest post (last page) that he does have a reason for his comments. Which is fine and good. @Havel: I would like to add, unrelated to this game, that around the time Mass Effect 3 came out on wii U the publishing company released the entire trilogy series on the other systems remastered for the same price as ME3 on Wii U making the fully priced and late ME3 for Wii U generally a bad investment. One extra thing to consider as possible reasons why it didn't sell well.

Actually no, it wouldn't be foolish because you are making assumptions on what would/wouldn't convince me. You make claims and do not support them with appropriate evidence showing causation rather than correlation. It is literally like talking to somebody who is uneducated and doesn't understand basic logic. How about this, you link me the "thousands" Plural, of UNIQUE forum posts or you find me a poll showing not only the hate but also those that are neutral and like the game. Sample size is important so it needs to be in the thousands of unique replies, otherwise small deviations skew the data way too much. A significant majority need to be in the "hate" group because neutral doesn't count for one side or the other. Reminder: you have to show the intent to buy or not buy and if they have a Wii U or not. This is to show whether the Wii U is the contributing factor to people not getting the game as opposed to just being a fan of the games individually. Here is an argument with evidence to back it up and an appropriate conclusion. Bayonetta 1 during its launch week sold about 200k while Bayonetta 2 in its launch week sold about 38k, while these numbers are depressing it is unreasonable and impossible to conclude a causation as to what are the reasons for the low sales of Bayonetta 2. Some possible explainations are that people did not want bayonetta 2 or they didn't have nor want to buy the system it was on (since it was on a different system). Reported by gamasutra for Bayo1 and Gamespot for bayonetta 2. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25963 http://www.gamespot.com/articles/despite-glowing-bayonetta-2-reviews-sales-in-japan/1100-6422548/ Of course you're free to ignore all this, but I think most logical people would see you as somebody who clearly doesn't even know how to back up your claim in an intelligent and fair manner. Telling me to "look it up" means you actually don't have evidence to support your claim that you would be ok with sharing.

With no supporting evidence to back that claim. Using the sales of two mainstream games, that aren't even on the same system as this game, doesn't come remotely close to proving anything. Bayonetta 2 also didn't sell well at all and it was universally accepted as a great game.

I pointed out that if you use the logic that you can draw a conclusion about the majority from what people say online it must apply to a game like that, You could point to other series like the Assassin's Creed Series of late or even the new Battlefront. However I'm pretty sure those are all successes despite outcry. The type of game doesn't matter. Call of Duty is by far not what I think of when I think "the majority likes it", If you looked only at the internet you would think it is universally hated. But I have a lot of friends who love the game, even I used to play many years ago in the CoD2 days. I no longer play because it is no longer for me. In the end tossing money into marketing solves any problems with game quality by making sales. I don't really need the majority's approval to enjoy the game personally so I'll be buying it. This "majority" argument is pretty silly though, as if every single player who has ever played FE or SMT were this "majority". I'll even buy the special edition if it is confirmed to be released locally.

I did acknowledge there are exceptions to games being good and a crossover but that is limited to Fighting games usually and an odd game outside that. Smash and MvC is covered under these and I do agree those are good games. I actually play Smash bros though recently have stopped playing after years due to real life stuff. Smash 64 and Melee were pretty much masterpieces imo. Don't really care for the newer games personally but it isn't a big deal, I'd be super excited if a new game was like Melee or 64 but it isn't a dealbreaker if it is. I just won't get it/will get it eventually/try to only play casually as I wouldn't enjoy competitive play then. Marvel vs Capcom 2 and 3 are great games though I'm not particularly good at them, and I can only play on a fight stick as my hands hurt. Warriors Orochi was panned, Project X zone is the definition of "average" not exceedingly great nor exceedingly bad. Just ok. Hmm their marketing is pretty much non-existent. I do consider the teaser to show they were working on a project was probably bad but that is 100% the FANS' fault. They made assumptions about the project and then expected them to happen as if they were promised something when they weren't. It is like if I assumed the new star wars movie had flashy lightsaber combat (that was ultimately pointless) like the prequels but then got mad when the style was more like 4-6. Makes no sense because that would be on me for assuming something I was never promised. The "fanbase" that reacted are likely the vocal minority that I generally try to ignore in favor of forming my own opinion of the game. And I've seen a lot worse in terms of what people would call "Anime bait" or other similar terms to even consider this somewhat close. I don't mind that they only used FE 1, 3, 11. 12, and 13. I mean the casts for those games are HUGE. And each character has a good amount of character depth. To put even more characters in there would ultimately sacrifice some part of the game. They put a lot in there already though, of course I would've loved to see some returning characters I liked such as Nephnee or Mia, but they put enough characters in there for me. I think Kellam might have been confirmed but I can't say I've seen him in anything related to the game. Yeah, I tend to avoid social media on some things important to me to avoid spoilers. Unfortunately I failed at that with the new Star Wars film. I did try to listen to some of the music, though I didn't go over all of them on purpose because I'd like to be pleasantly surprised at how it works out in game. Though, if they try to localize the songs I'm immediately jumping on those videos to listen to everything. I am fine with some normal language localization, I just have serious problems with music since I understand Japanese and in most cases I've seen they have to actually change the songs too much to apply English lyrics. It would be a shame since this game clearly put a lot of work into their music. And yeah, people spend way too much time hating on things they should care less about. I didn't like DmC (The reboot), but I elected not to buy it after the initial shock since it was replacing everything I knew about Devil May Cry. I've moved on to Bayonetta. @The Geek Could also be this, we don't know. It is true that JRPG fans have been typically limited to playstation only.

Not believing your reasons because you have no EVIDENCE of causation. It is like you looked at internet hate and said "Hey that must be the reason right?" If you used that logic, every Call of Duty game ever would bomb because loads of people dislike it. And the game sells tons every time anyway. There are many reasons it could've sold less, it released one day after Christmas, it had little advertising, the low install base of the Wii U, the fans hated it (as you might put it)...But really there is no evidence for any of these to be the right answer. We have numbers without reasons. In all honesty just because people don't see how the game relates to either series doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is SMT and FE in there, very easy to spot and I would consider it a unique mashup. And the idol type pop music is only in tone, thanks to the language barrier people assumed that it was overly Japanese which apparently is now "weeb" and "Bad" as opposed to "Dark and gritty" which is now a "11/10 game. I actually understand Japanese so it really wasn't an issue for me from the start as it only took a bit to figure out what that initial song was about. And of course now that we have the full sound track we know that it is not all bubbly music but a diverse group of music that is honestly pretty well made. Again, I'll point to the battle theme/boss battle theme as some of my favorites. Completely unreasonable criticisms that have no real basis besides personal preference seems to be the name of the game here. In addition to being against something simply because it is Japanese, in a Japanese game. What people did was Knee Jerk Reaction to the game because it wasn't Demifiend vs Marth. Plain and simple. The point in bringing up Catherine and Bayonetta was not to say they are crossovers but to say that they are games that clearly wouldn't sell well but were inventive, fun, and good games. There is no reason to dismiss this game just because it looks a certain way, though more to the point...the hive mind of people who hate the game is very effective in pushing people to agree with their dislike rather than looking at what the game offers and see if they would enjoy it. Surprise Surprise, people don't like to think for themselves and make the judgment on their own. Not to mention that the same people who complain about "Weeb bait" also seem to like SMT, FE, and Persona which are just about as Anime as you can get in their respective genres. There are more solid comparisons in the RPG department but that doesn't mean they still aren't solidly based on Japanese culture and Anime. There literally is a hot springs scene in both P3 and P4, a stereotypical HOT SPRINGS SCENE. Would disagree with map design of FE Awakening being bad, I actually liked it and didn't find many, if any problems with it without nit picking. Opinions. If you really cared nothing about the game...why are you here? I mean, you said you don't want the game, you don't plan on buying it, and apparently you're neutral. Yet you are on the section of the forums specifically for this game. What is the deal? I ignore threads I don't take interest in. I did hypothetical numbers to show how the game might be considered decently profitable to show you that it may not be all bad, I'm pretty sure everybody is tired of doom and gloom. These numbers are based on real stats that we do have access to currently, as we do not know the budget for the game we cannot tell if it is a success or failure. Business wise a waste would be something that doesn't earn money and to claim it is a failure or success already is premature. Though even that is a bit iffy if you make a good game or the property either pleases some fans/doesn't affect core fans or pleases core fans. Platinum games are cursed to sell low amounts of copies of pretty much every game they ever make but their games are almost universally good or acclaimed. Atlus is another company I'd consider as consistent with quality releases in several different categories along with Nintendo. And no, the game most likely doesn't boil down to scantily clad girls, they already censored Kiria in the Japanese version from what I've heard...that is the opposite of scantily clad. You bring no evidence that apparently that idol-motif is all this game is when you haven't played it nor do you know the story. And I can be pretty sure you don't speak or read Japanese, that is not all that common anymore. Look at it this way, the game will have its audience and you can keep saying you're neutral when your words clearly imply you are not. You can keep saying you don't care about the game but when you decide to even bother to go on the forum section of a game you care nothing about that is a clear contradiction. This game in no way affects core SMT or FE games but it has shown me a dark side of the community for both sides with extreme hate I didn't expect out of small fanbases which were mostly cool until recently. Unlike a replacement of either series it is a spinoff that you can choose to ignore or support. However; panning the spinoff game while knowing nothing about it is silly as is hailing this game as the best thing since sliced bread. If it were to replace both series completely then MAYBE I might understand as Devil May Cry suffered that fate. Though...I suppose I shouldn't be surprised as Social media+Videogames = flamewars and cesspools of the internet. I'll be getting this game as I wish to judge for myself where the game stands on my personal list of games.

But we don't know that the majority don't want it. We know that some people are really opposed and some don't really care, of course some people like the game and want to try it out. As with all mashups they will never get 100% of both franchise fans buying the game. Hyrule Warriors should have been plenty clear with that. You're argument of Majority falls flat on its face when you claim you don't know what sells but then claim you know the majority don't want the game. What is it? What sells and what the majority want are supposed to be the same correct? And no, nobody remembers federation force but they are free to make it, I don't particularly hate the game nor do I try to convince others it is already doomed for failure. To be fair metroid isn't on the top of my list for games I want to buy, and if we were to use the majority argument...apparently metroid simply isn't that popular and doesn't sell all that well. Just like Atlus made Catherine which was an excellent puzzle game, I expect this game to be pretty solid. I believe this game will have its audience and I'm glad that there are people out there who will let people enjoy what they want and provide info about the game on this forum. I'm very pleased with how the soundtrack panned out especially for the battle/boss battle themes as it shows that it is not just idol music but covers other themes. However; to expect it to do as well as either of the series individually is silly. Almost no crossover game does that and there are rare exceptions, half of which would be fighting games where the crossover concept feels almost right at home without any unique ideas for a plot. The ones that would've sold more than the individual series at the time or currently would be...Super Smash Bros and maybe the early Marvel vs Capcom games. One example being project X zone which did not sell better than most of the series included in that crossover. On the "Not saving it from criticism"...that is of course true but speaking on just Awakening I find it hard to find legitimate criticism for the game because honestly it was a well done Fire Emblem game. It took aspects from many different Fire emblem games over time and combined them fairly well. Training on the world map for FE8, skills from FE9-10, S rank supports and children from older FE games not released in the west, Lore that largely fits in with the original Fire Emblem lore (shadow dragon/FE1), and the My Unit feature from FE 12. It is pretty hard to find legitimate criticisms for the game considering they took a lot of good parts from other fire emblem games and made them work in a new one. My favorite feature being the My Unit feature as I could make any sort of class I wanted, a shame I'm locked into lord in Fates since I favor magic but it is a minor point I don't consider worth being a negative. No, turning into a dragon doesn't count, I want to hurl lightning at people. Doesn't sound like you're neutral, you consider this a massive waste of time and money. Again with the "Majority" argument, I don't think it is quite fair that the Majority should determine what games we get in every single case. I'd get extremely bored with gaming because it would all be grimdark stories with no real differences. For most new series nobody actually knows that they want it until it is deemed the game is good based on its gameplay merits. Technically Bayonetta 2 might have been a huge waste of time and money as it bombed, but I am extremely thankful it even got a sequel as it is one of the best games of recent memory. I would not say it was one bad business decision after another, really we don't know. Likely neither of us know anything about the video game making business so whether or not this was a bad idea really depends on the actual numbers of their budget. Considering the game sold 23k in the first two days and apparently sold well on the virtual console (some claim it is the same, so 23k) and if we say the game is 60 dollars a piece (actually 67k yen per, should be slightly above $60) that is about 2.76m dollars before accounting that it was only the first two days and it still hasn't been sold in any other regions other than Japan. It is worth noting that there has been little to no marketing of the game which is where big money costs come in for all forms of media, whether they are movies or games. So it could very well be profitable by the time it is released in all other regions. It is not a blockbuster by any means, but profitable. I'm also ignoring the Fortissimo version of the game which is a special edition which costs more money and likely earns more profit. This is for simplicity rather than accuracy but that version was sold out in Japan. It is far too soon to call this game a failure or a success in terms of financials.

For other people probably not, but I base that information on how people tend to hate things centering around an Anime or Japanese type game unless it is Persona and of course ignoring that both FE and SMT are based in that anime style. You can see that hate in some groups of players who hate new Fire Emblem games. I personally love them because they saved the series. I'd rather have Fire Emblem than not, I still remember Advance wars and that series getting canned. Also, there is no hard metric showing causation on how much of a majority wants/doesn't want this game, just a very vocal hive mind of hate. I do think however that it is better off than if it were some portal opening up and characters from both series meeting up. That is extremely stereotypical and honestly I would jump to the opposite side of the fence and decide not to support it at all. It would be essentially "Project X zone, now featuring Fire Emblem!" and I don't think that makes a good or interesting game, pure bait for superfans to go buy it because it has the names SMT and FE on it. I do think however that people in creative positions should make what they want occasionally and not always what sells, otherwise we wouldn't have many good games. Anything from Platinum Games being one developer for starters. That includes Okami, Bayonetta, Wonderful 101, Viewtiful Joe, and of course Devil May Cry 1. Nintendo and Atlus are not Activision and EA where sales dominate every decision. Both Nintendo and Atlus go for what they feel is right for the game no matter how odd. That is how we got Splatoon and Catherine (Lets be real, Catherine makes you pause if you've never seen it before and just see trailers). If all games were made to sell you would quickly get bored of the games because they would all be too similar.

It is a mashup however, that is the point. People may not consider it a direct crossover but it is a mashup. I would disagree that not being a crossover makes it somehow worse than being one. Straight up crossovers are typically not good games.

Hold up here, you're implying that this isn't a true mashup or crossover =/. Great, you're supporting the game. But don't make the claim that this game is not a mashup unless it is to your tastes. To imply that a lot of potential was somehow lost by going with this theme is also based on your opinion. Really, we don't know what the game's potential would've been nor do we know that having this theme makes it somehow "lose" that potential unless you're basing your idea of potential off of your own personal preference for crossover games. And typically interdimensional portals opening up and characters meeting only works in fighting games and extremely lesser known games (that aren't really great) such as project X zone. Where other games which feature characters from different series try to do their own thing, good example being Kingdom hearts.