Kirokan
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Posts posted by Kirokan
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Welcome, enjoy your stay! Sacred Stones is a lot of fun!
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21 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:
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So wait should I read both or does the top one have the highlights and the rest?Sorry for making it unclear! The second is a summary of highlights of a separate interview that has some crossover info, but that may also offer some other small tidbits, so I encourage you to read both. : )
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Yes, I wish they dived a little deeper into what they meant by it and what differentiates it from what we got.
I feel like originally they meant it'd just be one story with no variation beyond the change of main lord you follow? Where as Lyn's story is separate/a tutorial, with Hector's having some additional content (which can be chalked up to the surprises they mentioned for those who replay the game). Likewise, there probably would not have been a selection for Normal/Hard selection for the various stories, either, I guess?
That's just speculation though!
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I translated some developer interview stuff on FE7 from 2003! It's rare to see developer interviews on these older games, so I'm excited to share these (as I'm not sure if these have been translated before either...)
Interview from Nintendo's Online Magazine (Full)
Interview Highlights from Nintendo Dream (May 2003)
There are fun little tidbits, such as how the Tactician was only supposed to be there until the end of chapter 10 among other things.
There is one more online interview I want to translate from FE7, but I am not sure if it has any substantial information that we do not already know from these two...
Sources/original JP are listed on the posts. Enjoy!
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I finally got time to translate some developer interview stuff on FE9 from 2005! It's rare to see developer interviews on this game, so I'm excited to share them:
Interview from Nintendo's Online Magazine (Full)
Interview Highlights from Nintendo Dream (May 2005)
There are fun little tidbits for Tellius fans to enjoy, so please give it a read.
Sources/original JP are listed on the posts. Enjoy!
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Thanks for translating, @VincentASM! Someone brought it to my attention when the image popped up but can't work on it while at...well, work. xD
I did order the book itself though! So I'll let you know if anything else fun pops up.
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12 hours ago, Water Mage said:
Apparently another support was changed:
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Looks like the idea that the support was changed to be more similar to the japanese version might be right, since this one doesnât seem particularly controversial.
I can see how that mistake may have happened, the word Dedue used in JP was ć ćŒ which can be singular or plural for sibling.
5 hours ago, tirex367 said:and another change
EDIT: the original line was "You shouldn't dance up there, you could fall"Â
That one is odd, since that change is completely different than the JP xD Might be something to look into.
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3 hours ago, Pentao said:
Big disagree on that this makes it more accurate to the original Japanese lines.
The previous translation was wrong, but it was wrong because Bernadetta never says "submissive," and also never says her father left her in the chair all day challenging her to be quiet. This is a case of mistranslation, but for the most part everything else about the original translation is correct. It also, more importantly, carries the emotional weight of the original scene. Her father isn't depicted as "kind of a jerk," he's depicted as extremely controlling and money hungry.
The new translation basically opts to half translate the original text and then just leave it there. The new translation completely ignores the part about Bernadetta being disciplined all day and all night (ćć æäžèșŸăăăăŠ) which is a major part in seeing what kind of person Bernadetta's dad is. He's the type of guy who wouldn't leave her alone, and not in a good way. To top it off, the new translation makes it seem like all Bernadetta cares to mention is being tied to a chair, which isn't really enough for the player to go off on.
The original Japanese lines mention being tied to the chair and constantly disciplined. The mistake in the original translation is that it translated the "disciplined all day and night" part somewhat incorrectly, and that's it. The mistake in the new translation is that it straight up omits that part completely - it attempts to be more correct by just not translating.
This is the original text.
What's important here is that you also listen to Bernadetta's voice actress as she says this line. She pauses and has a small hesitation before going from the first line to the second. The second line begins with "ăšă«ăă" which is basically the English equivalent of saying "anyway." In Japanese, the bit of hesitation she has in this line is like her remembering all the horrible things she went through and catching herself from continuing on for too long, and instead of reciting everything in her tragic past before she can get lost in it, she cuts back to the point.
The new English translation fails to convey this. That, combined with the fact that it just opts to not translate 1/4th of her lines that put a lot of context to her father's actions, there's no way I would consider this new translation more accurate.
I think what I was trying to say is "accurate" would be in the purely literal sense to the idea being conveyed. I regret using this word without conveying the full idea of what I was trying to say. I feel the accuracy is still to the intent, that the father is cruel and a.) Tied her to a chair (with implied punishments/disciplining) and b.) all to make her a good wife (main idea to conversation).
But I do agree with the fact that the "all day and night" makes this a matter of "toned down" severity. In terms of "censorship," I do not know if toning down severity to this degree would really qualify, as that harsh idea (that it's still a terrible thing dad does in broad strokes and just not as in-your-face terrible) would qualify? If it does then I apologize, but I felt it didn't when it comes to what I think of in "censorship" for JP and ENG.
Instead of getting one localizer's interpretation (i.e. the "challenging" part), the reader is now left to imagine what the "things like" may have been for Bernie.
If we account for subtleties being lost and that severity, it may indeed come off differently, but the overall idea being conveyed is not hindered in that sense. Looking at it this way, it may be inconsequential. The article I wrote goes into a bit more detail of the thought behind it, and indeed, her emotion is key that the localization likely picked up on and "spelled out" in English to the player. This new one kind of (awkwardly) leaves it to the imagination.
Uh did any of that makes sense? xD (I liked the original localization a lot more!)
2 hours ago, Water Mage said:Seems like this subject is already being talked about in Twitter and Reddit.
Speaking of Reddit, it seems theyâve been talking about this specific thread.
Though I donât get why the OP of the thread is apologizing. Seems like theyâre mentioning you @Kirokan, though it doesnât seem to be anything malicious.
Yeah... it's kept me busy all day. I kind of regret getting involved... I think I'm poor at expressing things, and has me at an anxiety higher than Bernie's entire existence. xD I was happy that the ones on reddit were pretty cool about it though. ^^
Ah they're probably apologizing since there were some misunderstandings about who said what and such I think. I'm happy to see that though! -
13 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:
Oh, I wasn't referring to you. It was more of a general statement, considering some still view the change in the English script as not censorship, despite that it can still fall under the definition of.
Oh no worries! I just wanted to ensure people were aware that I do not really have much say in this beyond what I provided. : )
11 minutes ago, BrightBow said:It's good to have you here to provide some concrete information. Accusations of "censorship" can make things turn really ugly, really fast these days.
I try my best, considering past issues and messes that have come about!
6 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:I totally think the Japanese version of the script possibly had minor changed before it was transferred to 8-4 to localize the script since the game did get released at the same time as Japan did. I mean, there are a few English lines from Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia went unused such as recruitable Berkut and Fernand were planned as well as Alm and Mycen were moaning to Celica's unused death.
That I wouldn't know, as I have no way to access any pre-release scripts... xD But... I don't think 8-4 worked on this game at all? To my knowledge it was NOA's internal Treehouse? I don't see it on 8-4's gameography. I know Valentia was, but the first line there is a little vague?
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11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:
Just because the change ended up making the script more accurate to the Japanese one doesn't exclude that it was done also for censorship. We'd still need to find out if there were other script changes and see why those were changed to really have an answer.
I don't disagree with that! I'm used to "censorship" referring to changing the original JP text, so at the very least I don't think it's that type, that's all! I don't have the credentials or knowledge to know if it is any other sort. xD
7 minutes ago, BrightBow said:Except we do not actually know that censorship has anything to do with this. In fact, that explanation seems really far-fetched. They are okay with her being tied up by her father but have a problem with her being "challenged to be silent"? That makes no sense. So censorship most likely isn't the reason here.
It's a bit of a silly mystery... one we may never have the answer to.
9 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:Well in any case it's good that you can translate stuff for the community... oh boy imagine if this got out of hand and then protests... petitions and on and on started poping up from misinformed people complaining about... actually what is this called? Relocalization?
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That's what I'm here for! I happened upon this thread (as it was on the sidebar on serenes)Â when looking for something completely different, so I thought I should quickly contribute what I could to help quell any misunderstandings!
14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:It's delightful to see you again @Kirokan!Â
I'm not yet into Three Houses, but I couldn't pass by this board and glimpse over a good non-spoilers textual controversy. To see you here and help resolve it so fast is serendipitous. Thank you!
It's nice to see you are around too! I'm still doing comparisons so this may be an interesting thing to write on tonight in case others potentially think it is a translation change...
(And still working on wanting to look into more Tellius stuff too!)
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5 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:
Say whaaaaaaaaaaaat?
This came as a total shock, so it was (generally) a good change I guess? Although without having read the before-patch convo I think it would have been harder to understand that her dad was doing it for her to be submissive. IMO they should have kept that in.Right? I wasn't expecting that xD I think that's unprecedented...
11 minutes ago, Book Bro said:This isn't censorship lol, can we please not use that word for everything?
It's an unnecessary change. Wonder why they did it.
That's the mystery, but it's possible it's a reversion to a script more accurate to the JP script?
3 minutes ago, BrightBow said:I guess it could be something as stupid as them accidentally putting in a beta version of the script of sorts.
I mean, the development build is no doubt Japanese only. If they are making a new build, the translations would have to be applied again, I'd imagine. And then mistakes could happen.I could see this as a possibility. : )
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10 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:
That's possible but its actually not uncommon for the western version to expand on the Japanese text for better or worse. Hisame's pickle obsession was an addition by the localisation team for example. I heard the glorious wacky persona of Hades in Kid Icarus is also unique to the dubbed version.Â
Hehe, believe me, I know all about localization having fun with text...especially in Fates... xD but that's the feeling I got they were going for here. As for why they may have reset it though, that I'm not sure about~
10 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:Interesting.
Perhaps there was something of a mix up? "Around the clock" seems to correlate to "All day". However, the Japanese text seems to refer to the "discipline me", rather than "tied to a chair"? English doesn't have the "discipline me" bit; but could it have been changed to the "challenged me to quiet"?
Yeah I put a super literal translation there so is a little awkward to read, but I wanted to give people the idea.
I think the discipline part is what ENG picked up on to expand on more, such as that challenge and stuff. Submissive probably from the idea of the previous line of her simply being a "tool for marriage."
(The word can also mean "training" which the new ENG also references)
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2 minutes ago, BrightBow said:
"Just bit of a jerk" is maybe underselling that level of abuse.
Plus, it's not like the NoA version actually added any new abuse. It just tried to come up with some sort of purpose of the whole ordeal. Like, how does being tied up contribute towards you being a good wife? By itself it doesn't actually explain anything.I agree, I think they were trying to more clearly express the feeling she was giving in words, as the Japanese is more subtle so perhaps they felt the need to spell it out.
Does anyone have the wider ENG support? I checked the lines before and after the screenshot too but wanted to see how those were in ENG...
1 minute ago, Etrurian emperor said:That's um......really random. What exactly was so offensive about Bernie's dad challenging her to be silent? If anyone its tying a child to a chair with the intent of abusing her that's the problematic part. Compared to that just forcing her to keep quite sounds really tame.
If they changed it because they thought it was cruel then they kinda missed the point of Bernadetta's backstory while also focusing on something that's pretty tame. A very curious change.Â
I think it may be just restoring it to more like the original JP based on what I saw above...
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11 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:
Wait, so that original pre-patched translation line kinda made father more of a cruel parent while mentioning about her father in the original script was just bit of a jerk? Is that correct?
That's what it seems like! Unless that video (Uploaded Aug 24) is post-patch before it was released to public. I haven't checked post-patch dialogue on my own console yet, but not sure if that will be necessary...
EDIT: I forgot to add one word to that translation of my original post (about discipline), hope that helps a bit more?
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11 hours ago, BrightBow said:
How about checking the Japanese version then?
Again, we know from the Radiant Dawn interview that IS doesn't actually want to have a proper script. If they dumped down the script in Radiant Dawn, why wouldn't they do the same here since they now have the power of patching? Especially since the "dumping down" approach correlates with them making a ton of money.
Um...looking at the pre-patch convo alone:
Quoteæ€ ćă«çžăă€ăăăăŠćć æäžèșŸăăăăŠăăšă«ăăèŻăçžæăšç”ć©ăăăŁăŠă»ă»ă»
"He would leave me tied to a chair to/and discipline/train* me around the clock, all in order to make me a good partner for marriage."
So it may actually be a case of where the new translation is more accurate to the original... xD whether or not that's "better" or "necessary" is up to you. : )(*To/and I wrote since it can be either the tying was the disciplining, or there was disciplining involved with it which may be where the original ENG translation of adding said cruelties in detail came from. The word can also mean "teaching" or "training").
The patch came out recently, right? The above video was uploaded August 24th, so I think that would be pre-patch...Â
So the original localization may have been punched up and now corrected? I don't think that's censorship.
Hope that helps~ I haven't checked post-patch JP dialogue but based on the above not sure if that will be necessary...
UPDATE: I wrote an in-depth article on it.
EDIT: I feel the need to clarify... because I think people may be misunderstanding, especially since this post has now been linked to elsewhere:
1. No, accurate does not equal better all the time. This is not what this post is saying. I'm just showing that it has become more accurate to the literal original JP.2. There is the subtlety of the father's cruelty in her word choice and tone. I provided an incredibly literal translation.This is likely what localization had originally picked up on with their initial translation and made more clear to their audiences. I talk a lot about intent in my articles, so in "accuracy" again it is to the literal meaning. I think in terms of "censorship," the original meaning and implications are still there, but the original one "spelled out" the cruelty more than left it implied/to imagination. (The new ENG is now a little awkward though as OP pointed out in terms of how the ideas connect xD)
3. Regarding this whole thing about Germany/Australia ratings and changing it for that, I don't know much about that, nor do I feel qualified to speculate on that kind of matter, so if it's censorship for their sake I guess that would be according to people? The type of censorship I was thinking of (which is usually the one that comes up when it comes to JP > ENG localization) is like the one in point 2 above!
4. I'm not saying they had to do this change. I'm not saying it was necessary. I'm just as confused why it was made myself, and personally liked the originally localized version better. Please do not think this is an attack on the original localization!
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Ooh interesting... I wasn't expecting dialogue to actually change at all. My version is already upgraded, but if someone still has the previous version with JP screenshots, I'd love to check on that end to see if there's a difference too.
EDIT: I found a pre-patch vid of the JP support conversation, so I can compare it when I get home. : ) -
On 5/13/2019 at 8:32 AM, Mysterique Sign said:
@Kirokan Did you scan Flora, by any chance?
Sorry for the late reply. Was her artwork not released? If nobody else has posted it yet, I'll get it scanned right away.
EDIT: Added to the gallery!
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Hi everyone~
I'm really pressed for time, and I have not butchered the book as I usually do. it is a little underwhelming overall for both artwork and trivia, but oh well.
I'm uploading the RAWs to an imgur gallery as we speak. Apologies that some of the sides of the scans are blurry, but it can't be helped with the spine in the way.
I plan to get a few of the new character official works up, and maybe a few interesting concept pages. The rest will be done by request.
I am not doing a translation project for this book, but just select pages.
@VincentASM I prioritized scanning the few lore pages there are for you. Chronicle seems the most promising!
EDIT: Okay done uploading for now! Anyone who is missing I had assumed already had their artworks shown, but if I'm mistaken please let me know and I will scan them when I can. You will notice a scan of Soleil's concept art that shows her full body, this was a request, and not all the bodies in concept art have the full body. It's a little inconsistent, actually.
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2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
HOLD UP!Â
Are they... are they JUSTIFYING why Pegasus Knights don't have extra weight added to their lower body?
Yup! xD
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Time flies... It's been several months since my last update! And nearly a year since this started! x_x But I am alive!
And have some good news! Lots of pages done for this update!
Profiles:
110 Desaix, Barth, and Garth
112 Blake, Zakson, Lawson, and GazelleEnemy Units: Â 130 | 131 | 132 | 133 |
NPCs: 134 | 135 |Concept Art:
146-147 Alm and Celica
148-149 Celica, Mycen, and Gray
150-151 Tobin, Kliff, Silque, Faye, and Clive
152-153 Clair, Python, Forsyth, Mae, Zeke, Tatiana
154-155 Mathilda, Boey, Genny, Jesse, Leon, Luthier, Delthea, and Atlas
158-159 Conrad, Berkut, and Rinea
160-161 Fernand, Jedah, Rudolf, and MilaThe only pages left are a few more profiles (9), and four pages of "Overclass" concepts! Then there are two pages of staff comments that I want to translate, but then I can finally wrap this up! So sorry for the delay everyone, but I'll need a bit more time..been so busy!
(Also please ignore some minor terminology errors, when going over some I realize sometimes Zofia became Zophia or Sofia/Sophia, due to the variety of translators and which versions of the game we played and such...I only realized after the typesetting was done, and already spent several hours on all this...so I'm willing to let it slide. Forgive me!)
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Hi everyone! Me again with another JPN vs ENG post (does anyone remember me? xD)
A user on the FE reddit had pinged me to look into something on Hector and Eliwood's A support. Namely, what was going on with Erik Laus, and how the conversation reads in Japanese.
I looked into it and it is indeed very likely a mistranslation --revolving around some pronoun mishaps. The conversation ends up reading quite differently in the two languages as a result.
Please read my in-depth post about it on my blog to see the details!
I now want to go check every support conversation between characters in the game... as the mistranslations are starting to pile up...
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On 1/21/2019 at 10:46 PM, eclipse said:
I asked this because I suspect some of Micaiah's snark was added in the localization.
Not that i have a problem with her personality - if anything, had her personality been the focus early-on, I think she would've been more palatable for me.
You are correct, from the few things I've looked into, this would appear to be the case. But of course I've only looked at a few scenes (notably the Sothe's children line). So not something I can really make a general assumption from.
On 1/21/2019 at 10:36 PM, Icelerate said:I don't know how to read the Japanese script so I can't say. Probably not a lot but I could always ask Kantopia.Â
One day I would love to look into the way characters are portrayed between the languages more in-depth!
But alas, time is a fleeting thing... I've barely been on SF as well : ( hence why I saw your message and thread so late.
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Apologies for the wait everyone! A lot of life changes went on (some really good but keep me really busy too~)
I especially apologize to Valbar and Kamui fans, but here are their profiles (finally!)
That is all the playable characters done. Now some bosses/other characters remain, and some bits of concept art. I still plan to see this through before the end of the year!
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Thanks for the write up on things about the poll!
When it comes to FE9's localization, I often think of this article on the matter. The communication between NoA and NoJ to express intent across properly means they probably reached an agreement on the title that became "The Four Riders." At the same time they did leave a lot to the localization.
Really, I would've just abandoned the image of steadfast horses entirely and gone with something more boring like "The Four Knights of Daein" or "Four Pillars of Daein"Â (or some variants thereof) and such. : ) Or to get more culturally relevant, would've tried to relate them to something like the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
Willing to start over
in Introductions
Posted
If it helps you start anew, I don't know who you are or what grievances you have, but I'm happy to hear you'll stick around and continue to learn more about Fire Emblem ^^
I come here now and then too just to check on how things are going.