Errorik

One could be use experience and one could be the "teacher points" or whatever they are, but that sounds a bit confusing for the same progress bar.

Exactly what I'm thinking. Something about a bonus with "+". Possibly to add investment cost to reclassing? Take Echoes weapon skill learning and push it into weapon ranks instead.

Looks like it's own rank. Nice screenshot. Progression seems to go from 40 xp to 60 xp required to rank up. D has 80, which follows the idea each rank (including "+" ranks) adds 20 xp. Perhaps it adds +hit or +dmg when using those weapons. A separation of unlocking and gaining rank bonuses for a weapon of a certain rank? Edit: Could combat arts be unlocked at certain "+" ranks? This would make a unit with "curved shot" for bows make sense. They unlocked "E+" bows, which would enable "curves shot" use when a bow is equipped.

Seems like there's a possibility any "villager" unit can learn anything. Characters definitely have preferences/cheaper investment options, but not seeing the whole scroll list of possibilities leaves me wondering. This might replace character specific growth rates? Was there a section showing actual stats on the students, such as agility and strength? Combat arts could possibly be something you can carry over to other classes? The whole skill leveling thing to take a test seems similar to jobs in final fantasy tactics. Level up mounted, D bows, and xp to unlock bow knight? I'm hoping this game won't have the issue RD has. Lots of viable units get ruined by availability from "acts". House selection might boil down to a cosmetic decision. The story could go the same way but you experience it with a different main Noble (voice lines/cinematics etc) and having different faces on student villager units who are customizable. Perhaps it's pessimism, but who is in what army in the trailers could have no meaning for what the released game has. "Show some characters fighting" might explain some of the house discrepancies. Maybe I should've put this in a different thread....

"+" might be the ability to use forged weapons of the listed rank. It could also simply be showing you've mastered that rank (ready to "promote" in rank or take a test for something).

Proven to be utterly false by videos previously posted. Odin takes near no investment besides nos tome. Clinging to these arguments, which are demonstrated to be MASSIVELY false, is reaching a level I can't comprehend. I can't tell if some of the users on this forum are really really bad and sad trolls or actually this dense. Step 1: Have online available. Step 2: visit castles for 8min. Step 3: You're done with resource gathering for that play file. Step 4: Double check you have the planning skills to accomplish this daring feat of intellectual prowess. Step 5: Confirm to yourself this isn't a hoax and this really was THIS FUCKING EASY. Step 6: Play the game without online. Phew, what a rough ride. I had to rub 3 brain cells together. Can't have a fun discussion without the brain drain gang showing up. inb4 the reports etc. I don't care anymore. This is too stupid to just let slide. Get some fucking help.

Depends on what you'll be spending gold on. Unless you're going to use nos odin, there isnt much to spend gold on.

Lol, there's a reason I've stopped going to Reddit for anything. All the normies are on it now :/ The Artifact subreddit is actually disgusting.

Unless you're going to to grind (dlc, online, very slow pace, etc), lots of these S supports will be difficult to get all at the same time on lunatic. Also depends what units you want to use for support, combat, backpacks, and/or just breeding lol.

WL Jakob is great. Saves a heart seal and he still gets cav off of Silas. Mmmmm, optimization. Stats end up dope, flight is more dope than just mounted, and you can get it so early. Jakob can get wyvern off Elise, if you have plans for a different playthrough later. You can splash in malig knight for trample, 1-2 range, and aoe chip damage too. It's not that Xander x Charlotte is bad, but Xander doesn't really need the STR. If you're going to use Xander as a main combat unit, he performs very well as a WL through chapters 19-21 (all fliers do). This gives him +2 str and more str growth. There's not really a time Xander doubling doesn't kill the target, even without a STR pairup, so it kinda goes to waste. You want him doubling anyways for guard gauge growth, where one shotting something makes him a bit more vulnerable to EP. My personal favorite is to go pal -> WL -> hero off Selena for Sol -> pal. Ending with Selena Falco backpack. He doubles, can take magic dmg, and if you want even more shenanigans he has access to shurikenbreaker. Xander as a main combat DEMANDS ALL THE TALISMANS! lol. If you're set on Charlotte, go for it. It works. I just want you to know the options and the rationale behind them. +Mag/-luck Corrin is the standard. -def is a possibility for a harder early game with a bit higher offensive growths. Robust is solid for any choice, but imo mag is the way to go for almost any playthrough barring something really specific. E.G. early Dwyer trample!cav. Laslow x Charlotte is dope. Getting access to +5 hp and gamble is solid, while Soliel's bulk reaches the heavens to grab Zeus by the throat yelling "COME AT ME, BRO!". Both Laslow and Soleil perform extremely well as MN with Charlotte. Charlotte gives Laslow everything he needs to get past his less than stellar and late start. This kinda assumes lots of investment. Laslow needs an immediate heart seal, dagger forge, and lots of xp to catch up to the early units. A weakness for this argument is it's the only way I've ever used Laslow as a main combat unit. Otherwise he's a rally bot with a bow in my playthroughs. Bronze bows are great in Conquest.

Imo it's the difference between playing by numbers and playing by tradition/assumption/I like it when the stats grow. The numbers pan out for all the strats people don't want to try because "paladin is good" or "I like x". E.G. "unit x held this point really well while I turtled oh boy chapter 10/17 are impossible". This is compared to "Silas is over xp curve, taking near zero damage, killing everything on EP, and shooting off into late game as a near unkillable monster". I think Est/villager units are a great litmus test. They're nearly always bad but growth rates are blown out of proportion by a seemingly large group of players, when base stats are arguably much more important. This is where prepromote aversion comes from, which is hopefully close to death after people play Fates. I'm hungry and this post sounds salty....

I'll give you initial impressions, but also I'd like to know the rationale behind your picks. If you're going to use the child from the pair or not changes the consideration. I'm assuming no grind. Some paralogues are hell if you don't do then asap. The first that come to mind are Benny and Xander's child paralogues. They become near impossible after a specific point (I don't remember around which chapter since I never want to recruit their kids). Side note: keeping units in guard stance for a long time and using lots of guard stance is a near sure way to lose. Attack stance is amazing. Corrin x Jakob sounds good. You get two early paralogues and depending on how you use Jakbo, Dwyer can be a really strong cavalier. Kana's paralogues is free xp to get skills from odd classes outside of the normal chapters (how I use Kana's chapter). Silas x Azura can be built soon, but Sophie is going to have very little hp. Sophie and Silas will have access to peg, which is a good option for them. Sophie can end up being a good support unit this way (a second Shigure kinda). Shigure will like this pairing. Azura is also one that can be difficult to support with depending on how you play. Having her able to dance anyone you need makes it take a long time to raise support with a specific unit to S. Mozu is rough unless you heart seal to archer. She doesn't really need any of the stats Kaze gives her and Midori isn't a great kid for non-online gameplay. Aptitude is bad in Fates (10% isn't worth it). Mozu is a good mom, but imo Midori is bad and Mozu is bad unless you plan on investing in her. Those bases are difficult to overcome while ending up just as good as other units who don't need babying. Tip: you don't need to give her much if you leave her as lvl1-2 archer. Deployment on chapter 10 gives easy peg kills for lots of xp. Charlotte is overkill for Xander. It isn't very optimal. Xander gains overkill STR and you give the best physical mom in the game to a unit who isn't good (siegbert). It does work and works well, but it's not very efficient. IMO, slapping bow knight Selena or Laslow on him is best. He gets skill, speed, and movement which are all things he wants. Also frees Charlotte for other options (Laslow x Charlotte is nasty and makes a god tier Soliel). Leo x Felicia is great. No comment on Benny x Beruka. I use her on Silas, Kaze, or Arthur generally. I've never used Benny. He has a son with a terrible paralogue. Benny definitely likes the flight Beruka gives. Keaton x Selena is probably ok? I'm not sure how the kid turns out, but it's likely not bad. Selena as a peg can fly Keaton around, since he is foot locked. I don't have experience using Keaton. The rest look good.

Gotcha

Either I'm not considering something abuse or I'm missing out on some tactics treasure. If it's not castle, online, or dlc related I don't know what you mean.

As in separate runs? They can't both S Corrin with my room.

For your Jakob to WL, I'm guessing you're using dragon talent female Corrin? Who do you S for Silas to achieve it early (or is second shop timing early to you?)?

I like keeping Jakob in butler since it's such a good class. He can easily kill mages in chapter 8, good chip damage with a debuff, healing when needed, gives +speed on pairup, and starts at 6 move. As Zoran showed, the stat difference isn't that big of a deal between Silas and Jakob, which means it's not a great heart seal investment due to a very high opportunity cost (could've been bowzu, wyvern!Elise, early change Corrin, xp spread). Wyvern!Elise is something I'd been sleeping on, but it's a lot of fun. Simply having another high move combat unit is great, even if she didn't blow up later. I don't have moments where I think "darn, wish I had troubadour!elise" or "darn, paladin!Jakob would be so handy". The latter is because Silas accomplishes the same goal while ending up being the most versatile physical unit with great stats the whole game. He has access to cav, ninja, wyvern, fighter, archer, and merc. Top tier skillsets and classes. Jakob can go wyvern off of Elise or corrin. Elise later in the game and Corrin for chapter 7+ boom boom. MK gives him flight, 1-2 range, lunge, +2 str, and trample. This is a way better stack early. He snags cav later off of Silas to get elbow room and shelter. This offsets bad growths and enables him to become a lethal-ish support unit nearing endgame (ferry, chip damage, shelter abuse, movement pairup etc). Shout-out to trample/cav!Dwyer. TL;DR: MK!Jakob is good because it frees a heart seal, has better skill stack, doesn't stop him from getting cav, and has 1-2 range with flight.

Dope Edit: those Reddit comments make me sad. Early heart seal Jakob meme too strong.

Ok

It's true she doesn't add anything new to your roster in regards to mechanics (early flight depending on your run?), but imo she will always deserve S because of the following: amazing class set, flight on join, sharable wyvern, best bases I've ever seen, low internal level, arguably best mother, very strong str and mag damage, top notch performance all game, them growths, and JOINS ON CHAPTER 10! I'm all for awarding her "best unit ever". Is she mandatory? No, but hot damn she is amazing at essentially no cost, which in itself is game changing imo. E.G. I've never been able to complete Percy's chapter without her (no grind). Maybe I'm bad, but she trivializes it.

Isn't grissly wounds at promo 15? That's quite a while to wait. Are you heavily xp investing in him?

I've got "backpack syndrome". I find myself over using guard stance frequently. This might be because I try to make too many units viable all at once. It doesn't make sense but having units at very different levels bothers me for some reason, even though I'm better off because of it. Being a brute works a lot of the time lol. I've been playing Artifact with a mid-range mono red deck and wrecking face (not very difficult 5-0 perfect runs on constructed gauntlets). Hit everything really hard and don't run out of steam.

I also put it on talisman spamXander with sky knight Selena pocket so he can take on mages.

I like keeping Corrin as Noble until ch.10, unless it's a class I don't want to be heart sealing to. Being bulky, hitting for magic damage, and having ok/rounded pair up bonuses at no cost is some good value. I prefer keeping Jakob as a butler. The speed pair up, 1-2 range, decent bulk&speed, and healing is way too much to give up for an overkill Jeigan. E.G. ch.7 where Jakob doubles to kill the mages while not taking much damage (doesn't need a pair up or tonics most of the time). I much prefer friendship sealing Jakob to paladin off of Silas later in the game where his combat as a butler starts to fall off (ch10+). This opens up another heart seal for anyone else to use. I'm definitely on the A/S tier Jakob 1 boat. He has so many reclass options, gives a good kid with nice resources, high availability, great combat when you need it, and great utility once his combat falls off. If you're not going to use Silas much and aren't heart sealing Elise, I get heart sealing Jakob early, but the opportunity cost is really high since he'll be taking a heart seal when it's not that necessary and taking xp/role from Silas. TL;DR: I agree with @Zoran I think Laslow would be way higher if you got him 2 chapters earlier. He needs a heart seal and a lot of babying to get going on his join chapter. People knock Odin for needing a bit on his join chapter, but Laslow needs more and joins later. He makes a bonkers ninja with an S support with Charlotte. The +hp, Sol, strong riposte, gamble/elbow room, +5 shuriken is a monster build. Soleil is even better at it, though her chapter is tough once you've got everything setup. He has the same problem a lot of units have, which is Silas achieving the same role with less resources (Silas running elbow room, Sol, +5 shuriken, riposte, other (lunge, +2 str, shurikenbreaker) from a friendship seal off Kaze. This doesn't make these units bad, they just cost more by comparison, which makes a tier difference in my mind. I think Laslow is a solid C unit. Even if you're not using him as a main combat unit (ninja), he has a free mini rally with two of the most important stats and can go BK for amazing pair up stats (also can give Xander Sol off a friendship sealed fast support, which completes Xander's final form if you're using him fully). TL;DR: imo Laslow is a solid C due to mini-rally, strong final build later with higher cost, good pairup stats, and Xander fast support.

How do people use Kaze? He has two early chapters, but I've never found him great once you get him back. He is good at dealing with mages, but so are Jakob, Odin, and Elise. I'm down with him giving ninja to Silas, but I find there's a unit better at the things he brings to the table. Niles is better at chests etc due to +mov. Jakob, Odin, and Elise seem to be better at smacking magic users with limited investment or have long-term potential. Elise needs an early promo for this, but if you're not heart sealing her, I don't see why you wouldn't. Do you give him an instant promo on rejoin? He doesn't need the speed level ups but desperately wants the strength. I can't see him being above B or below C. I've actually never used Benny or Keaton either. They come so late that my current units outclass them. As long as they stay in C or below I'm fine with it. Corrin out tanks Benny and Keaton literally can't keep up (Effie problems without +mov on promo). I'm kinda surprised Keaton doesn't come promoted or at least with better base stats. Silas has been the bread and butter of almost every single run I've done. He gets a full level before Effie even spawns on the map, has essentially every single physical class option, never falls off (if you save him from cav), and gives cav to other units. Imo every early male probably gets +1 tier consideration simply due to kids (Arthur!!, Jakob, Odin!!, Niles, and maybe Kaze/Laslow). It's part of why female characters in Awakening were always so high on the lists. It's free value from small investment, even if you don't use the kid. Percy and Ophelia's chapters are top tier. Edit: imo Odin is A tier at minimum. I'm up for having my mind changed on any of these things. New kinds of playthroughs are always of interest to me.