ruruo

It falls to Warp on Maddening for me, and I have very mixed feelings. Warp at B, with Mastermind she gets it fairly early, and usable which is great. I like it for a handful of maps (Felix’s paralogue come to mind) for convenience but it’s not something essential for every single map. Late game thanks to her good magic growth it has a huge range, again very nice, but I don’t find myself using it as much as I think I would. So she gets carried around a lot for “just in case“ moments. Thrysus can also be given to anyone. It gives the false impression she always has crazy range, because she generally gets given it by default thanks to her major crest.. If I’m not taking Warp or Thrysus into consideration, I’m not the biggest fan of her Spell List. It’s centred around damage. On Maddening she’s not the nuke that she’s notorious for, not fast enough to double late game. I think she’s like a 8/10 for when the Warp utility is beneficial, but -1 for times when I never use it and she’s just there making big chips. So 7/10

@Agro @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate That’s fantastic, thanks for the tips about skill levels. Ngl, their skill levels might suck 🙈. Will see what can be done as I get closer to Ch11. Didn’t expect to do another all routes play through so didn’t pay that much attention to them at all.

Hm... I’ve only used Ignatz as Bow Knight on Maddening. It works pretty well as his personal (+20 hit) cancels out a some of the range hit penalties, making him capable of taking full advantage of a bow knight’s full range with accuracy. He had good enough dex and luck growth to be reliable at crits. And if using Raphael as an adjunct gets a free small boost to his attack, accuracy and avoid. Early game he can chip damage as an archer. I don’t value him for rallying, because while Rally Speed and Dex is nice, he doesn’t get Rally Str until much later with S authority. By that point in game, rallying isn’t all that great. 5.5/10 for me

Aw, seems like they're saving the murder hobo version for Fallen. Not complaining, glad they got Chinatsu for him

@Dark Holy Elf @Anathaco Ok, Assassin it is for Manuela, Sniper for Hanneman, and Flayn down the Dark Flier path. Yeah, I'll have Alois certify for both Grappler and War master in that case. @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Ahh def stacking, I've always avoided armour classes, and def stacking in favour of dodgetanking so it'll be cool to try it for a run. I'll take Balthus in that case, I'm be running a couple of the wolves on CF, so adding him feels pretty natural. As for Ch13. I've checked out cheese strats for it, but I"m not sure. I'm leaning to making the split at Ch11 as suggested by Anathaco to save replaying. So trying to fight it with the students might be ok, it's only a chapter away. I'm likely going to hold on to Petra and Doro. Petra's known to be pretty good, and Doro I could keep her as the Dancer for both routes. But maybe it's better to just cheese it this time, to be safe.

I'm doing the final VW map tonight :D, and will move on to CF/SS soon. It'll be on NG+ Maddening too. I doing CF first, but I plan to switch to using all the church/staff units for SS. When would it be best to make the split file during White Clouds? I'm thinking either right before the Ch 11 decision or earlier when Byleth hits Lv 15. Or I could just make the switch post-timeskip so the students are Ch13 ready, and not do a skip strat. Really depends on if it's worth the extra few chapters for the church/staff units. Buying back some proficiencies via Renown is an option, but it might be a bit limited as I've never actively invested in any of them on previous runs, a lot was just left on default. And then for the units, at the moment something like: Catherine - Falcon Knight? Shamir - Sniper (/Bow Knight) Alois - Grappler/War Master Manuela - ?? (Trickster, Gemory, Assassin??) Hauneman - ?? (Dark Knight?) Cyril - Bow Knight or Wyvern? Seteth - Wyvern Lord Flayn - Dancer (or Dark Flier?) Not too sure about them in general, and I find Hauneman and Manuela trickiest. I'm tempted to train Manuela through the Reason Bane, but I'm not sure if Bolting would be worth it. Hauneman seems to want to be Dark Knight but the Bow proficiency makes me want to try bows on him. That makes 8 units in total. I can take on another 4. 2 for the core team, and 2 extras for 12 unit chapters. Could hold back some of the Beagles or any recommendations/PMUs for the 2 core units? Thank you guys as always, for going through this!

Poor Lorenz, his growths do him no favours. On my most recent NG+ VW Maddening run, I wanted to give him a chance. Is he really as bad as I thought he was? Even let him have Thrysus for once to see if it makes any difference. He's like a 6/10 unit with Thrysus for me. That is sad. His stats are so balanced, late game everything becomes kinda questionable. I find he can't take advantage of the relic's passive Aegis/Pavise going down as mage. Thrysus doesn't offer a defensive bonus like the Aegis Shield, and his own defences are kinda "eh". They're not good or bad, but the mediocre speed on top hurts. As a magic unit early Ragnarok and Agnea's Arrow is kinda nice.... There's no extra range and they just don't do much else for him beyond some heavy chip damage. His Faith list is also sad. Ward isn't great (can always use Pure Waters for same effect), Recover can be ok. Doesn't offer much for utility or healing overall. He gets Frozen Lance pretty early on, it's kinda nice mid game, but later on no so much. Using it with Horseslayer to give his an anti-cav option is ok. But I find that even with effectiveness damage he still can't okho. Overall I think about 3/10. He's one of the worst units in my books. If he was the only mage who can use Thrysus then it would give him something unique. But since Thrysus can be given to anyone for the extra range, it doesn't offer him anything over other units.

8.75/10 He's not crazy busted in the way Dimitri and Edgelgard can be built to be. Super fast Claude eludes me on runs. I don't think he's fast enough to double on Maddening without a Brave Bow. I also wish for him to have Darting Blow. On the other hand he comes with so many good things. Encloser is a fantastic skills on a flier. Excellent proficiencies in Riding, Flying, Axes and Bows. His personal Battalion is one of the best. Free access to a flying class without the need to train for it. Barbarossa is just great class, hard to go wrong with it.

See, I would ignore the flier/Wyvern hype. On a no-DLC run there isn't a good flying magic Battalion at all. I've tried Dark Flier Annette and found that really underwhelming (there's no bonus magic growth with the class. Speed is nice, but Annette is already slow with 35% growth). Also the DLC flying magic battalion doesn't give a decent bonus for Hit. I like staying in a magic class, then goes Dark Knight with her. It keeps her magic growth, and offer the advantages of canto. If you're in BL, glue Gilbert to her, if not glue Mercedes. That's a free +3 mt, +10 hit/avo when their support builds. Then a Spirit Dust or two if needed. And it should be reliable enough. I'm surprised that there isn't more people who have used Dark Knight Annette.

She has struggles with low str early game, then absolutely makes up for it once she gets going. Very easy to path into Falcon Knight. She does enjoy a dip into Wyvern Rider imho, to preserve str, if you're willing to invest a little into axes and scum for it. On hard she can pretty much no sell the mages with her res on the last few maps on AM. On Maddening, not so much, but still a very reliable dodgetank. 7.5/10

If I'm using Lightning Axe then yeah, I want to focus heavily on axes. I already need a C+, so by that point, I'm committed. In Annette's case I think it's fine to drop Reason after hitting A, or even earlier like B+, if you don't care for Excalibur. Faith is totally ok to drop. I tend to just finish at C for Recover, but honestly I think it's ok to drop it at D for Heal.

I don't find her having as bad hit issues as you'd think she would. Axe Prowess 5 gives +20 hit, and a lot of magic battalions have great hit bonuses. Add linked attacks to the equation, if anything, she has surprisingly good accuracy with axes.

I'll stick my head out and simp for Annette 8/10. Admittedly I've only used her in-house and I do think she's a character who's more relevant in house, and on Maddening. Rallies aren't that necessary on Hard. There's no special support with Gilbert or Crusher out of house. She does get the special support with Mercedes too, so it is an idea if you want an adjunct, to have Mercedes out of house. I don't think it's necessary to go for Wyvern, if anything I think she's better grounded at as Dark Knight, for battalions like Macuil (+7mag attack +30 hit). Early game she gets default Rally Attack, which is good by itself, and Rally Res at Authority D and Rally Speed at Authority C+. That's fantastic, as thanks to her Authority boon, you'll get both Rally Attack+Speed quick, and get a lot use out of it. Her spell list might not seem the best, but they're very accurate spells. For early game I value their ability to hit. The Authority boon works well with her. It gives earlier access to good A rank magic battalions. In-house there's also the option of using Blue Lion Dancers straight out from Part 2, for double dancing shenanigans. (One use gambit that lets you dance 4 characters including your dancer). I don't think it's necessary to go for Rally Move though. With stuff like Stride, and how late you get it, it's not as relevant imho. Late part one/Part two is also a good time to get her going on Riding/Axes. She transitions very well from a support unit to a nuke. It keeps her relevant and flexible throughout the game. She's arguably one of the better nukes in the game thanks to Lightning Axe. Axes have very good mt. There's Crusher on her own route. The forged 21mt Devil Axe+, was my go to weapon for her. It is very nice, and very pink. It only requires 2 Agarithium to repair. On non-CF runs that is totally fine to spam. She can also use Bolt Axe for a 3 ranged option which out classes her spells late game. Gilbert is a great out of box def adjunct for her, they have the special support bonus (+3 mt, hit/avo +10). All in all, I had a good time using her in house, and find her pretty underrated.

Hmmm... 6/10. This makes me sad. She's such a sweet character, but I'm not a huge fan of dedicated healers in this game. She's more focused on healing over utility or offense compared to some of the other mages. I like her massive Physic range and Restore to recover from enemy gambits. Fortify, can be situational. Doing a run without her, I don't find it essential.

Hm.. hard one. I have a friend who swears by Sylvain, but I find him kinda just ok, like he's a solid 7/10 I think. He has good proficiencies for Paladin, Wyvern Lord and Dark Knight. The bow bane is annoying. He's a character who would prefer to have Hit +20 on Maddening because of his low Dex. Swift Strikes is fantastic. Wyvern Lord is good, but I don't think he makes the most of what the class has to offer. He's not fast enough to safely act like a pseudo dodgetank with Alert Stance+. It's really just the mobility that's great. On my fresh NG Maddening run, I did choose downgrade him to Paladin from WL for Battalions. On a fresh run where good flying battalions are more limited (esp. on BL where there's really only Galatea and Cichol, I think) I'd rather give them to other people who would get more out of them. I've tried Dark Knight on Hard, and I think it was good too. It's fun, you get more utility out of him. He can carry his personal battalion for Stride. I like how he gets access to Physic, and he still gets enough strength to spam Swift Strikes if taken down a physical route. I want to try him as Dark Knight on Maddening at some point to see if I like it better.

Woahh.. there's some harsh scores for Ashe. I don't think he's 2~3/10 bad. Ashe isn't great, there's nothing stand out about him, but he's not borderline unusable. He's overshadowed by a lot of other units, but he's serviceable for people who want to use him. His proficiencies as good for raising into Sniper or Wyvern Lord. I think he has slightly a easier inhouse early game compared to Ingrid. He's decent on Hard, for NG Maddening, he's worse during late game. I had him master Sniper, and scummed for a Wyvern Lord certification pass (didn't master the class). He's works out on Wyvern for upto mid game, and then for the last few chapters, I switched out for Sniper again. Not sure if WL was worth it in retrospect. What I like is that he can fly in and help on Ch13, and he can act independently to get snipe chests on several maps as WL or use Hunter's Volley as Sniper. He gets the job done, and it's not too difficult getting him in a good class. I've always used him on BL runs, and never had that moment where I felt I want to just drop him. However, I've also never gone out of my way to recruit him out of house. He has no great selling points. He's ok, serviceable. 5.5/10

Hm~ 8.5/10 with gauntlets. ngl I find Sniper and Bow Knight underwhelming for him. They're good but I always felt Felix does better front lines over ranged... War Master was really fun. Killer Gauntlets+, for some nice crit, that makes me happy. It's easy to fish for his crest effect, and crits, with guaranteed brave effect or quads with gauntlets. His authority bane plays against him, and his personal skill is kinda useless. I think I'd even just prefer to give him E rank Jeralt's Mercenaries. But I think it's very much worthing building his Authority to B, for the battalion bonuses over his personal. There's good B and C grounded battalions that he can play around with, and if playing BL, rotate with Dimitri, when they're weakened.

1. Make CF longer. Have Tailtean Plains and Fhiridad early in CF, like deal with Dimitri, and Rhea within the first 3-4 chapters, and spend the rest of CF exploring the lore/mystery behind the Slitheries. Oh and give them Ladislava and Randolph as replacement for lost faculty units. 2. Have more units you can recruit during battle. 3. Make Gronder work as an actual Fog of War map 4. Give M!Byleth the Sothis Regalia he deserves, cowards. And boob windows 5. Either Tailor White Clouds to each house better, or do a Branches of Fate thing, where it lets you skip to post-timeskip. 6. Have a mode/section that lets you choose and play every map with a end file of your choice after completing the game.

I've done AM as my first NG Maddening, and I'm into Ch19 on Maddening VW NG+. It's likely NG+, and being more used to Maddening, but I think VW's early game felt quite a bit easier, even the first mock battle. Early access to ranged units is pretty great. A lot of their in house students quite naturally promote to ranged or high movement units later on. For AM I think, if you're using most of your in-house students, Ch13 will be fine on NG. Just as people say, make a save file on Ch12, and leave some good equipment/accessories to access in the convoy. I did it with Assassin Byleth and Dimitri, so both two foot locked, and felt it was ok. I had Wyvern Ashe (with Bows), Valkyrie Annette, and Bishop Mercie. For Ashen Wolves, I think recruit the ladies earlier, so you can get them started on Faith asap. Both of them have pretty good Faith Skills (Warp for Hapi, and Rescue for Constance). And yeah, get Balthus while has still has that Bow D rank if you're after Hit+20. I forgot to, and his bow bane is kinda annoying lol. I don't think it matters too much for Yuri. I've used him on both Maddening runs, and he's been consistently good. Balthus has some great supports with Hilda and Claude.

It's pretty gimmicky, but I'm having fun running an all infantry team with Xane, Astram, Kaze and F!Kris. Astram with Infantry Rush + Heavy Blade Seal Xane with Sudden Panic, Infantry Hex Blade + Spur atk/spd Seal Mercrius buffs all the physical units. Xane can mirror the buffs from Mercrius, and Astram's high attack and def stats, and Kaze's high speed and res stats. Infantry Hexblade saves Kaze from carrying Sorcery Blade, and pairs with Spur atk/spd Seal. Infantry Rush so everyone else has the Heavy Blade effect.

Ok I'm carrying loads of bias. I think 6/10 is the fair score, but I'll give him 7/10 with bias. I really want to give him 8 but I think it's too much for a unit that I didn't use much for the War Phase. So I generally don't really like slow tanky units. I never used him on Hard, and I would have dropped him early on Maddening. But I'm making a massive exception, because on my NG Maddening run, where I kept Byleth at Lv1 until the forced promotion, Dedue defended my bacon and carried the worst of early game for me. He was awesome. One of the few characters who could make kills alone thanks to One-Two Punch, was responsible for saving most of the villages at Remire on the left side, and can tank some hits (but not indestructible). He has a natural path to getting Death Blow, and Monster Breaker from Axes came in handy quite a few times in a pinch too. He falls on the second part where he's comes back late, and underleveled. At that point I preferred the permanent mt+hit support bonuses on Dimitri from him as a defensive adjunct. I think his early game performance is still enough to make it up for me to give him a higher score, because without Dedue, I might have either given up keeping Byleth to Lv 1 or have done less paralogues and acquired the first Knowledge Gem much later.

Away from home this is rushed, >_< but I gotta vote for my boy. 10/10, would give him 11/10 if I could for bias lol. I just find him really easy and convenient to set up. All he really needs is Lance + Authority, even on Maddening. I usually abuse battalion wrath and vantage with his default class a lot late game so I don’t really find missing 4 Chapters or the Axe weakness a big deal. Hit+20 is really good, and mastering archer isn’t too out of the way, and I really like Curved shot for him as a ranged option. only issue is probably how he chewed through so many weapons with his crest early game when spamming Tempest Lance and Curved Shot 😅

6/10 He gets the healer job done. A second warper is always nice. Good carrier for stride/support battalions.

I'm only going to vote on characters I've used. Have to say these threads are great inspiration for future characters builds x) For Ferdie, I think 7.5/10. Solid unit, one of my go to units on every run. I'd probably end up rating most of the lords and some other characters above him. He's been incredibly reliable and convenient for me, and I haven't had an instance of him ever being stat screwed. I also just like the convenience of his proficiencies, making it easy to get him into classes like Paladin, or Wyvern Lord. He also doesn't have a Bow bane like Sylvain, so it's a bit easier to get Hit+20 on him. Early game he can spam Tempest lance, and later on Swift Strikes. Sadly, I don't find his Personal isn't as good as it sounds on Maddening on Wyvern. Hit chances against him is a little too high for my tastes, and if one does land, he's done. Certainly not at the level that I'd consider him a reliable for dodgetanking, but worth it for flying mobility. As um.. lol.. Dancer he's pretty great too. Riding+sword proficiency, and thoron for linked supports.

What about limiting to one extra mastered intermediate skill for each character? Would that be fair? It takes grinding out of the equation, and offers a bit of flexibility with builds. I can only speak for myself, but for units I like, I don't mind going for an extra intermediate skill. But it's not something I would bother for everyone on a run. There are some skill set ups that are popular with two intermediates too, and I think a lot of folk aim for good builds on their favourites anyway.