Junk

I can't sleep yet but am too mentally tired to talk about my bart/athena/fable (evan seems unlikely after that vote from athena cuz evan is already under decent pressure why would scum try to bus) theory but I think I should emphasize that I REALLY REALLY don't want to compromise on this bart lynch. Just seeing that evan vote from athena pinged me hard because it literally is from one or two comments they casually made and im getting more and more sure. I'll try to wake up early tomorrow to talk about my theory but yeah please guys don't lynch evan today.

Hmm don't really want to lynch Zeoneth. I got the impression that Zeoneth was trying to play catchup the whole time and was planning to give his reads post when he completely caught up. Him making a deadline wall post was perhaps not the smartest thing to do but I don't see how that means he's scummy. Also when he lists his three reads he says he thinks one of them is scum but two are probably town. Only thing that pings me a little is with the whole fable v evan thing it seems like he's trying to line up lynches but other then that meh. @Bartozio Okay I think I understand your fable case now (and I think it is) but you never seemed to address his d2 content on your fable vote or at all. Also your vote switch to Zeoneth bugs me because you never explained what suddenly made zeoneth worse than fable. Your vote seems more like a pressure vote considering you're just asking him to explain something. which seems eh considering there were already 3 votes (two of which are pressure) so it comes off as opportunistic to me. Hmm not gonna lie, in regards to your consolidation vote, I think you're telling me the truth when you said you wanted to stop athena or makaze from getting lynched but gut is telling me that if you're scum athena is also scum so this solidifies my thoughts even more. Nothing you can do about that tho. I will take back my original thoughts on your consolidation vote though because looking back you were the only vote on Fable and it would have been easier as scum to want a lynch that was less likely to happen rather than make a bad vote on a wagon you know would flip town UNLESS you were trying to protect a scumbuddy. @Fenrir Aesir this is the same response I have towards you. Even without my confirmation bias though I still think your fable read is really outdated and the zeoneth vote switch isn't good. Still top scumread @EvanManManMan I don't see how the jokes would be "artificial reasons"? The accused isn't actually able to respond to the joke in a serious way and unless Rapier would have really wanted himself to look really bad he couldn't justify athena for responding badly to a joke post. Also you definitely misrepped nadroj. If he wanted to avoid giving content why would he ask athena to give him topics to talk about? Fable ~~I think i'm just more intelligent and can understand sarcasm~~ we will have to disagree I guess. Also wrt satsuma, asking someone why they're tunneling is perfectly valid. Tunneling can be scummy because it enables them to just focus on person without talking about others in the game. I do have a question about the whole fable omgus thing. Why do you think scum would attempt to throwaway their vote? (this is just a question since I can't entirely see why what fable did with their vote on you was SCUMMY as opposed to bad decision making). I think Evan has a decent point with fable shading everyone on the satsuma wagon but most of his reads d1 didn't really make much sense to me and just feel thrown out there along with the rvs comment. His d2 fable read is better but I'm still definitely struggling to understand the OMGUS part (which i will clarify isn't scummy). @athena_57 Why do you think Zeon is worse than Bart? The blurb about him not giving any thoughts at all today kind of bothers me because I feel like you're forcing him into a damned if you do damned if you don't situation because if Zeon has to half-ass his thoughts (I got the impression that he never said anything at all because he was busy) people will call him out on it but if he doesn't say anything that's scummy? I guess i'm just confused how zeoneth saying anything would change your read at all. I think the initial Zeoneth case is fine but as I said I got the impression he planned to give a reads post when he caught up (and had time). I mentioned athena likely being scum if bart is scum and I want to talk about that but I really am too tired to go into why so i'll try to talk about it after bed but I will say that this is a big reason why I want to lynch bart today and I don't really want to compromise. I also want to talk about fable (because i'm thinking athena/bart/ (fable or evan) is a possibility. I didn't talk about fable today because most of his play doesn't really bother me just looking at it by itself but looking at his interaction with bart is really bothering me. If I'm wrong about this maybe i'm the one who needs a mentor...

There was a mafia game where raper (i think) quickhammered 3 TIMES. sorry for the irrelevant post but definitely one of the funniest games i've seen. I could see why RAD would want to be cautious and again I really don't get why he'd unvote as scum.

Same with makaze. Unless I missed something fable still seems to be your favored read but no vote (unless I missed you giving a reason and if so sorry)

##vote @Bartozio deadline thoughts are pretty much the same except for a few things. I find bart's satsuma vote bad because voting for consolidation seems eh when there were a few hours left in the phase. I feel like he could have tried harder for a fable lynch since consolidation didn't seem urgent. Makaze is somewhat similar but i'm pretty sure I remember makaze having some suspicion of Satsuma at the very least far before deadline whereas bart never mentioned him until the consolidation post. Fenrir is townie. His case is definitely original and idk why scum would choose RAD over just the typical "well someone was probably scum on the satsuma wagon". The thing that makes me hesitate about RAD being scum is actually his unvote at the end which fenrir didn't like. Rad could easily just do nothing IMO. No one seemed to dislike his satsuma vote. Unless he thought that people would suspect him just because he was on the satsuma wagon I don't really see any reason for the unvote (as scum). Everyone else is still null except for evan (already talked about why he's scummy) and athena who i'll consider a minor scumread at this point (down from a major scumread). Their answers to my questions have been okay. Can't say i've found anything they've done super townie but nothing super scummy either. @Fablewhy aren't you voting for bart?

Maybe i'm just dumb @Bartozio but what makes fable scummy for not wanting post until later?If you're correct then all I get is that fable is lazy but that doesn't mean he's scummy. Not sure if you can answer since you may be asleep but if not please answer. Also, how has nadraj been focusing on other things as well as responding to you? He's mentioned other stuff but it's not been very much such as saying the stuff on satsuma was good and asking zeonth something. IfAlso his comment about nadraj "swinging over" to scum next day strikes me as a way to vote nadraj again if he needs to. Rest of your post is meh. Kind of vague for most of your reads but such is the nature of list posts I suppose. Moving onto Evan, Rapier's case is hot trash for jokes??? Also idk what he means about nadraj saying no? Nadraj asked athena for some topics to talk about nadraj gave his thoughts on the topic? Also his fable case seems kind of reachy to me. Maybe it's just me but "why are you obsessed with me" implicates that fable wants to know why makaze is voting for fable. This implication seemed obvious to me so that's why I find it a bit reachy but perhaps i'm just too smart see things differently. I think Makaze just voted fable with nothing said so I could see why fable would react in a more sarcastic way? It's hard to explain to me His quip about satsuma is definitely bad though. I don't see how asking someone why they're tunneling on X is defensive of X. It just means that you think their tunneling may be scummy and i'm guessing satsuma wanted elaboration on why makaze was so fixated. I get the impression that evan was rushed but even so he's still scummy imo. Even if you interpret the fable case differently, his rapier,nadraj, and satsuma stuff is objectvely bad okay just saw 15 minutes to deadline so posting now but bart and evan should be looked at more IMO.

Fair point on the pressure thing with nadroj @athena_57.Just saw your earlier post on the RAD thing. Sorry for missing it. Why do you feel your vote is better placed on Satsuma right now? Also do you think the people voting for fable are scummy? You called them lazy but that doesn't seem alignment indicative to me. Nadraj makes a good point about Bart. That switch definitely feels off because he seemingly had a lot more conviction before and the switch specifically to fable is bothering me for some reason. It just feels like it's placed there to try to start another wagon since there are three votes on Satsuma and bart suddenly sheeping satsuma's voters despite never mentioning him before would look very bad so he chose fable instead who has been mentioned somewhat or if Satsuma is his scumbuddy he's trying to start another wagon out of paranoia. I feel like i'm using confirmation bias here but it just feels so off to me. At the bare minimum it comes off as incredibly unnatural and I can't really see this coming from town. I'm going to place bart over athena now.

##unvote ##vote @SatsumaFSoysoy

Satsuma bothers me a lot more now. I was under the impression they were going to make a significant content post with reads that weren't athena because satsuma wasn't voting athena, but all he did was vote athena in the end for the reasons i'm assuming he outlined in his athena meta post? It feels like he only voted athena because some people called him out on his lack of commitment and he was forced to commit. I don't understand why he couldn't have committed earlier. Top scumread @Bartozio I'm not sure how he could have really derived athena's allegiance unless he somehow thought athena was lying about joking and maybe it's just me but I really don't feel like another rvs vote is going to change the game significantly. I also disagree with the fact that athena could have only continued to the joke. I feel like athena could have definitely asked nadraj to clarify his stance on athena and why he felt that way since nadraj seemed to vaguely suspect athena. I don't care that athena didn't do this but what bothers me somewhat is that it feels like you're too easily giving athena a pass but heavily criticizing nadraj. I also agree with nadraj that you contradict yourself by finding athena's reasoning for townreading nadraj "good" despite the fact that your reasoning opposes athena's. Overall definitely somewhat bothered by bart now. @athena_57 This seems really confusing because I got the impression that you reversed your townread when you stated "Whilst Im not covinced by the "unwilling to participate in conv"-point, I missed the fact that he dropped the conversation despite shading me before." gives me the impression that you at least somewhat had a minor suspicion of him. You even posted a picture of a 15 degree rotation from "town" to "scum" :P. Why couldn't you have said all you wanted was to apply pressure before when asked why you reversed your stance? Now it feels like to me that you forced yourself to come up with a reason for voting nadraj. I think your satsuma read is fine for the most part but this part bothers me. "His (Satsuma) responses to me were dissatisfactory and did not seem aimed at either having a conversation or moving the game forward." When you were asking and responding to satsuma before this post I never got the impression that you felt this way and to suddenly come to this conclusion just seems kind of convenient for your case. Also maybe you missed my question but what do you think of rad's theory that fenrir genuinely did not realize what your vote on nadraj meant to his pocket theory. I think it's definitely crucial you look at this since your whole case on fenrir rests on him omitting your vote on nadraj Definitely bothered by this slot but slightly less than satsuma i'd say. @Rapier I only suspected athena and evan at that time and after evan's wtf posts (that came off as scummy) I figured I should pressure him. Speaking of evan it's been 23 hours since my pressure post and nothing so my pressure has failed it seems :(. In lieu of this ##unvote ##vote Satsuma Athena's fenrir case is decent if he addresses rad's theory at least and his satsuma read for the most part is fine but satsuma hasn't really had anything much and his athena vote reeks of being forced to vote rather than coming off naturally IMO. As of right now Satsuma>Athena>Bart>Evan Nadroj comes off as townie based off his tone and I think he's responding to bart well. RAD's still town to me. Everybody else is null

Satsuma is bothering me a bit. They said they would be up to lynch nadroj for "interactions" but we're fairly early into the game and now they seem to be throwing shade onto athena but not committing. I know makaze said the same thing about wanting to lynch fable for the day but at least they're voting fable i'm pretty sure. I was under the impression they're going to make a bigger post but these random tidbits without real commitment feels like he could be setting up voting options if need be. I guess they'd be slightly below athena What did you think of fenrir's response to radicate saying that fenrir ignored your vote athena? You say he ignored your vote on nadraj but he does make a response to this later (to radicate) that I didn't see you address. Radicate thinks fenrir genuinely didn't realize what your vote meant to his theory. What do you think about that?

hm yeah radicate's (and i guess athena's own) logic makes sense. Can't believe I missed that. Don't blame fenrir for it since I missed that as well. Still bothered by his vote on nadraj for reasons previously stated tho. @athena_57 I was referencing the part of fenrir's read which stated that your townread on nadraj felt like an attempt to get him to dismiss his suspicion on you through buddying. I felt further convinced because you never actually bothered to give a reason until later so it felt like the read was kind of just thrown out there. Although you're right that it doesn't make sense for you to try to buddy with nadraj and then suddenly try to confront him unless you somehow saw buddying with bart more advantageous but I have no evidence to support that. Evan seems to make a random vote on rapier and then misreps my argument. Also why'd he vote rapier when he said that he liked the athena vote on me? PRESSURE TIME ##unvote ##vote @EvanManManMan Athena is still number 2 cuz of the nadraj vote but I want evan to post more because as of right now his vote makes no sense, his misrepped my argument and also his post on pg2 came off as fake. As for makaze vs fable Makaze is idk, in the last game i played he was super confident. He seems to be the same this game. It's hard to differentiate how they would act as scum vs town to me. they are null for reasons i'll explain below. I think fable played similarly last game I was in and he was town? IDK how he plays as scum though. I think he's null for the same reasons as makaze. None of their actions seem townie to me and the only thing I have to go off is their town meta but i've never seen their scum meta so yeah. Radicate leans slight town for me. Don't think he would have dropped the fenrir thing as scum so easily since he easily could have pushed fenrir on it IMO. Everybody else is null

that was in reference to evaman sorry.

because their posts aren't suspicious to me? and why am i scumreading fable?

I missed fable not doing rvs because I saw evanman's post and went back to look to see if he had voted rvs. I actually feel suspicious about his comment now though because it feels like it's trying to come off as somewhat confused despite the fact that the comment was 2 pages into the game. Basically it comes off as fake to me. I disagree with bart on xnadroj. I don't really see how he was trying to drop the conversation? Nadroj responds to athena and then athena states that it was a joke. What is he supposed to do there? I don't feel like nadroj is trying to avoid interaction in general because athena soon makes a new post and nadroj asks some question to athena. This applies to athena's vote as well, even if athena adds that nadroj tried to throw shade on him but then dropped the convo, I don't get how you can really respond to a response that is so minimal. IN FACT, I actually feel like athena dropped the conversation because his response of "it was a joke" basically dismisses all of what nadroj said. I do think that athena is telling the truth about joking but I would have preferred to see a bit more addressing what nadroj actually said rather than "he's town". I can't find scum intent in bart's vote so it doesn't bother me too much but athena's vote does bother me a little bit because it feels hypocritical to say that nadroj dropped the convo when athena's response was so minimal. I do think fenrir raises an interesting point about athena's townread on nadroj as well. Rapier's logic on athena comes off as a little reachy to me but I think being reachy is fine ed 1 cuz we don't have much to go off of. I think bart's stance on mack is good. As for mack's read on me idk how not making a joke is alignment indicative and uh as for my question being "forced" idk it's not forced. The quality of the questions won't be the best since it was page 2 but I figured it was worth asking anyway. so as of right now it goes athena>evanman cuz he's made like 1 post on page 2 ##unvote ##vote athena

oh also how come no rvs vote

why do you think you should have reads evan? it's only been like 2 pages!

##vote fenrir

Guess I got my birthday present I asked for

How the fuck did we win this game

Manix/grace also there aren't any limitations from what I understand. Each night I can respond and take a dead persons role for that night.

no i only target dead

ftr i'd still probably vote kirsche since i don't even know why we're voting eclipse (someone should summarize that for me too). also I idled n1. reflexive roleblocker didn't seem like a very useful role. idk if i can use my role more than once lemme ask

also at this point my confidence in kirsche read is failing because it seems like 10 people have agreed with him that I didn't focus on much of his content which I feel like is a misrepresentation but obviously there aren't 10 scum. so can someone quickly try to clarify what they mean by not focusing on much of his content. because i genuinely felt like I have and it's kinda frustrating to be told that i haven't.

I get to choose someone each night and have their role for that night.

@Refa on page 11 you vote satsuma but on page 19 you stated "My vote is supposed to be on Bartozio; I could’ve sworn I was voting him." which gave me the impresssion you accidentally voted satsuma. also in that post " Zeus is consolidation if I must but I’d do my best not to get to that point in the first place." I think the thing about your defense of me that bothered me is you stated that you liked the cases on me which were about my lack of reads but then said that I wouldn't be able to make a "big reads" post as scum which made no sense to me. When you voted me later I got the impression that your defense was an attempt to buddy up with me. Now that you clarified that it was more the conviction on my read being the reason you defended me that clears that point up. Regarding Athena I still don't get your response. He never explicitly said that he thought zeus was scum so it came off as really scummy when you tried to say that they did read zeus as scum. I feel like town in this scenario would ask for clarification of what athena thought of zeus instead of trying to immediately jump to the conclusion that athena did read zeus as scum. Bartozio thing was more just stream of consciousness, it frustrated me but i wasn't holding it against you since you busy at the time. The thing with forgetting your reads is that it just didn't make sense to me when you seemed confident in your reads before and it felt more like trying to wait for new options to open up although I didn't realize you had lost a lot of conviction with the bart flip.