Eurykins

Lmao. I thought that I accidentally fucked over town by not saying my results/NA's. Though tbh, I was actually afraid of something conflicting between me and Athena both having our NA's fudged in N2. I was like, "IDK IF I SHOULD CLAIM THAT I GOT BLOCKED THIS LATE IN THE DAY PHASE. >_>" given no NK that night. Also legit forgot to post stuff in the following day phase. Kinda slipped my mind that I'd probs be shot the night after I tracked someone into a guilty. GJ though town for figuring shizz out, and wp all around. EDIT: I'm also a little glad that I'm not the only one who half-legit thought that Shinori was crumbing self-watcher lol. I thought in the end I was just bad with handling crumbed roles/things in general. x_x

Finding myself flipped after I get off a shit day at work. GL town.

5/5 I might've scored a lucky shot the last night phase, but I felt a great disparity in accuracy in my actual scum reads this game. That and I got majorly tripped up over Refa/Shinori, which almost caused me to get counter-wagoned vs. Bart last day phase. :/ I'm at least glad my SB suspect was warranted, and I followed through with peeping after him last night phase. On a side note though: Am I missing something here wrt Refa's JB slot read? Lol Oh well. This is the last of my posts for this day phase. Have a good night guys. :D

Post 4/5 Orihime - There is so much going back and forth with KTS that I feel slightly inclined to bypass it all for now. @_@ - This.... feels like an odd reason to not support the Bart wagon? But on the same token, would a scum member be so loud as to openly disagree with a wagon that was likely to occur? (If so, was this banking on my wagon going off instead or someone else's?) I also feel like these posts including the first one above seem to support part of their logic/basis on numbers in the game to not scum read Bart? Also a good chunk of the posts thereafter on the Bart Wagon comment are regarding counter wagons, not counterwagons, but not a whole lot of actual scum hunting, it feels? Or reads in general? Sheeping Conqueror's case on SB for an SB vote? "I don't think this slot (Bart) will flip scum..." "What a nice flip!" TL;dR: Those reactions though. You don't seem conflicted or affected at all that someone you seemed fairly sure wasn't going to flip scum flipped scum? *I get that it's cool and all for townside, since we really needed to hit scum at some point, but something just felt off about that reactionary posting. KTS back and forth in the ISO just cluttered the hell out of Orihime's thing and I could not for the life of me be sucked into pulling it all apart right now with limited time. I'm slightly bothered that a lot of the posts were based around speculating scum numbers, what is/isn't a counter wagon, etc. but I do not know if this is part of a differing game mentality/gameplay style or not (since I am personally not familiar with Orihime as far as I can remember). However, outside of sheeping Conq's case on SB, I feel like I didn't actually garner much from this slot? [I know that she subbed in late, so that could've played some part in it.] Also I know I had issues with the prior player Elemina's gameplay, so I'm not really feeling like things were rectified much thereafter? OKAY, I have one post left after this. So without further ado, I will need to ask you all: @Shinori @athena_57 @Conqueror @Jaybee @Baldrick @Orihime @Refa @Killthestory What would you think if I told you that SB was the one who RB'd JB, or affected his NA in whatever way he did? Who is scum in that instance? And are we willing to consider SB as a scum-sided RB'er/antagonistic role or not? Also consider the fact that, after surfing SB's ISO, I really see no actual casing/real thoughts either direction on JB from SB. Likely to think of him as a protective role and targeted him out of good intentions, or is this just scum disruption NA? @SB. If you find this untrue, or if you have a reason as to have blockaded JB, what would it be? And if you're not the scum force that's blocking/redirecting/doing something to nullify townsided NA's, then who do you believe would be the source? As a result, my vote is currently residing on SB's slot until further notice. I will be back later today, I just wanted to let you guys know since my thoughts are now out.

Post 3/5 *Technially SB/Baldrick/Orihime, since the last one was also mentioned in a couple of posts this day phase. Baldrick Vote on SB wrt SB Athena case ED1. Votes Randa with a fairly valid early case. Posts like this (and a couple prior) in terms of food-for-thought questions/prompting reads and interactions actually felt ok to me? Within the early phases of Day 1, Baldrick was prompting people a lot to give thoughts, considerations, etc., which drops more townie vibes than not. Posts like these though make me slightly iffy wrt some of the reads Baldrick offers- in these two cases, regarding Refa. A lot of prior posts, and including these two, seem to harbor points against Refa (in terms of barebone reads and minimalistic posts) but not really fault him or think it could have scum intent within them? (Wording is hard, sorry.) I am uncertain if it was a means of not really solid reading his slot, but it seems very much like wall-sitting on a slot that's performing questionably? One of the few people who seemed to be OK with Evan's slot (to some extent), but yet didn't seem to overly push for RAD over Evan D1 lynch? This sort of goes along with the notion of people being pretty passive if/when one of the two lynch candidates are being read in a better light, but still watch it slide through without much objection. :/ (However, you aren't the only one who's done this, and this in itself may not be fully alignment indicative, but something that personally pings me.) Seems to be poking at JB for some info, but also starting to press Refa more. More Refa casing. and vote. Sheeping Athena's case on Bart. Seems to be counterpointing Orihime's arguments wrt Refa. Counterpointing against Refa Post of SB/Refa/Bartozio scum team Gut is not sure if this post against SB is mildly OMGUS/reactionary? But some of the points are fair, tbh. IDK what to make of the NA decision making/who got what in what night phases. I am confused. :( I think it was fair for him to claim though earlier than not, if it helps us sort out wtf has been going on during the night phases. I'm sad about not getting that promised vig shot tho. D: TL;DR: I'm torn on this slot tbh. I did not have issues with him D1, and the main issue early on was him seeming forgiving wrt Refa's slot read. Being passive regarding Evan's wagon (which multiple people currently alive are guilty of) does rub me slight off the wrong way, but if that's considered scummy in itself, then once again that applies to everyone who did so. Bart's consolidation seemed fairly easy, which is slightly sus given not much mentioning of him before then? (The timing of the posts with the content seemed to case the Trio scum team including Bart only after agreeing/sheeping Athena's case on him, which is something to keep in mind.) 0000 SB - I know I've posted massive walls wrt SB the other day phase, and I'm really trying not to emulate it. Currently, I'm just searching up "Bart" and seeing what comes up.- Mentions Bart as plausibly coasting/not really doing much, but doesn't make any hard reads/offer anything on him? Considers me and Bart as being OK lynch candidates (with only really the above being the main statement he's made thus far in his ISO wrt Bart?) Bart vote post that I legit really can't read 'cause drunken posts are drunken. Someone halp. I am assuming the notions wrt Bart here were meant to further support the vote post/case on Bart? I cannot be fully sure though. Starting to at least get a minorly better idea of why he wanted to put Bart in his priorities? Post is mostly on me tho lmao. Kinda moves off of my wagon in favor of Bart's. Being sick and ear infections suck. :( IDK what you meant by "the read is too messy I don't buy into it" coming from Bart, but at least you seem more confident/okay with Bart lynch/case here. TL;dr: I still don't care for his interactions wrt Refa, as it doesn't rely on purely Refa and SB both being scum. (Especially since SB defending Refa [if Refa flipped as town] would look better than if SB defended someone like Bart who flipped scum.) So still slightly skewed on this slot based on interactions prior. Specifically wrt Bart, Idk. I feel like his original post was meant to explain the vote, but my brain keeps scattering the misspelled words/post to where I literally cannot understand it? (Unless I literally took the time to retype out every word and then read it lmao.) I think initially (within the first couple of links) he was kinda on the wall about him but then (outside of me), he did seem to push him semi-legit? I'm not sure if this was a result of scum SUPER BUSSING another person who was probably not going to escape the noose though, in which case it would've been 100% safer to bus them as opposed to fighting the lynch. However, in the consideration of SB being scum, one could consider his push on me an attempt to start up a counterwagon against Bart. I SEE TWO NEW REPLIES, SO SENDING THIS POST IN AND THEN TYPING UP ONE ON ORIHIME. JUST DON'T WANT TO LOSE POST PROGRESS.

Post 2/5 Okay, so there are a few things going on wrt Night actions that don't pair up. > My N1 action went off (I was not told that I failed or anything of the sort), so I know I was not blocked/interfered with. If Baldrick failed to do what he claimed to have done (and had I actually gotten the vig shot, I guarantee it would've went off by now), then it would've required him to have been blocked or tampered with. Or he's lying. On a side note @Baldrick, why did you consider giving the dayvig to me? Idr if you actually were decently town reading me or not, so I'm wondering what you considered when handing out a vig shot. (The times I wished I could've been a vig. :( ) > Someone claimed something happening with their NA and I have a means of explaining it somewhat, to some extent. But I am unaware of what sort of read that would imply, or if the intent behind the player was scum driven or not. I am not sure how much we should be divulging at this point. (It does pertain to at least one of the mentioned people so far today though, so that's why I'm considering saying something.) > With as many failed actions though that are happening- multiple in one night, it's probable that there's either 2 RB roles floating around (one townsided, one scum), or an unclaimed ascetic/nexus/something that fucks with NA's passively floating around- or a commuter that'll just avoid everything. (or something that enabled that for a night phase, but I'm not sure if those exist?) I have about 2 hours til my ride gets here for my doc appointment. Reading through Baldrick/SB wrt Bart.

Post 1/5 I apologize for the fact that I was not around for phase end. I fell asleep at the computer and thought I'd at least wake up early enough to actually post again. Didn't set an alarm though and slept clean past end phase. o_e Technically yes, though mine occurred on N1. Also if your action was listed as failing (As far as I know from last night phase results), it can apparently imply you getting blocked or something preventing the read from going through. I asked Marth about it, but as far as I know it's not explicitly told to us which event actually happened. *So either you got blocked, or something kept the role from doing whatever it is you did. I hate the fact that I've been stuck on non-scum slots so far this game. My reads are apparently really bad, and I will be re-reading the slots in a bit. Need to go get some foods first tho 'cause I'm hungry af.

When someone ASKED you to bring forth what you meant by finding Randa tonally town, you LITERALLY posted that you were too LAZY to bother pulling up said posts. Someone asked for your justification of your thoughts/reads on someone being contested by a lot of town, and you shrugged your shoulders and couldn't be bothered to do so. You voting a counterwagon doesn't do shit when you don't provide the support on the reads. You gave no incentive to bolster your more townish tonal read on Randa, when you were one of the only ones who thought so. Basically watched him flailing at the edge of a cliff hanging by a thread and watched it snap thinking, "Hmmm, I could throw him this sturdy rope to save/help him... but I can't be bothered to stand up and walk over there to give it to him. That requires #efforting, and I'm feeling too lazy atm." That's why I stated that you didn't do enough, and why it can be/look hella scummy.

Not really random. Read from my post on you near the end.

Bolded is not even why I'm scumreading him the fuck? LMAO. Try re-reading the actual case, or hell, read the damned TLDR in my post on him: In addition to the above points, he comments on Evan being a poor wagon, gathering too much speed and that it looked highly suspect. But did not move or say/do anything against it. That reads as scum intent and bystander to me. > You are also guilty of this, especially wrt Randa and you being too lazy to bother with pulling items up if you believed he was being tonally town. If you want more points, then actually read my posts before misrepping them to "LOL SHE SCUM READ BASED ON CRUMB/NOT CRUMBED LULS" when that is factually untrue. Good attempt tho, brownie points awarded.

I'm bringing it back up with Refa because according to him, Shinori said nothing and me pointing it out and questioning it makes ME scummy. THAT is scummy in its own right.

He didn't? Okay, so I guess we all have the ability to see people who visit/target us in Mafia games without having a Watcher-esque role attached to us. Or that people casually say something like this in-thread and mean nothing by it: Because I'm pretty sure he didn't mean that he was a POPULAR WAGON or a POPULAR VOTE CANDIDATE last night/day phase. But I could be wrong!

By spewing, do you mean throw out reads to distract or otherwise create chaos in the instance his lynch is followed through? If so, I do believe he was recasting the Athena vote, waffling on about random Tailoring (and casting suspect as to "WHO WOULD WANT TO DO SO"), etc. in response to your reaction test, so to me that qualifies as spewing? Not to mention the active use of his role and then throwing out "such an obvious townie role" to justify the ENTIRE tailoring situation. Also the FIRST BOLDED is also what I have an issue with: YOU NEVER TRADED 1v1. You purposely hosted the entire situation to where a lynch never occurred ON your claimed guilty, therefore no death/flip/1v1 trade ever happened Everyone who's like, "IT WOULDN'T BE WORTH IT GUYS FOR SCUM TO DO THAT" fails to realize that, in the way you did it to AVOID people piling on Refa and such, THERE WAS NO RISK? At the greatest height of risks, you pull out a cop who counterclaims. But guess what? That situation benefits scum 10x over than town does, because then someone steps forward with more information/role info. This is partially why I wonder if Via was janitored and had rolled cop. Because then there's no risk of pulling gambits of a fake guilty because there's no risk of someone else calling you out for it with a CC. Also being vague about the entire guilty call also entails/leaves the door open for more wiggle room of what could be considered a guilty read or not. @Refa Sorry, but what? Shading him for a claim he hasn't openly made yet? Okay, but crumbs exist for a reason? If you want to fault me for shading a crumbing/claim, then either tell him not to crumb/claim or otherwise justify to me why town!nori would want to crumb that role (along with the hoot-hoot flavor from what I could see)? And it's cool. It's never been my goal in life to be read positively in-thread by scum, so it's all good. :) Just be gentle if you end up shooting me next night phase in spite. Anyways, working on my next post comin' up. Spilled some drink around my keyboard but luckily it appears to be out of harm's way! :D

Sorry for lapse in posting. Was assisting Shinori in cooking foods 'cause he has to be up tomorrow morning early for work, so foods needed to get done. Will get my other posts up in a bit after eating.

...Have you read ANYTHING that I posted so far today/tonight? I don't... even... what????

Refa Sheeping SB's Athena case/vote (Though he apparently doesn't fully agree/support it himself?) Redirects several players (including myself) to look at SB's said case. Not the worst intent-wise given ED1, and assisted in at least building some sort of opinions in RVS. Definitely claiming town doesn't make you actual town. Also being pinged by SB/Baldrick on their push against Randa without having a read on Randa yourself sounded bad. And so it begins, the Shinori v. Refa battle. You note points against Randa, but one post is tonally enough for you to get a town vibe off of it? (To doubt your read on Randa) Additional drabbles with SB wrt being defended by him, odd bits at Athena. Refa then ends his post with the priority of Shinori > Randa > SB. Refa starts picking at Shinori. More Banter in response to Shinori. The comments wrt SB feels like a mild shade of defense/validation wrt SB's case towards Shinori's points. I'd sheep dat Evan case, Refa says (to Via). Ends up dropping Shinori vote as this (and a few posts prior) acknowledges some points that he drops against him. This post bothers me for a few reasons. 1. "I didn't mention this before, but everyone being okay with voting Randa is giving me second thoughts on the slot. It's not just that one post BTW, it's his tone overall, I'm just too lazy to link some of his later posts that gave me the same vibe." You express concerns wrt Randa wagon, even noting that multiple of his posts have been giving you more townie than scummy vibes, YET YOU CHOOSE NOT TO LINK THEM IN LIEU OF LAZINESS. This basically tells me that, "I think something's wrong (and multiple people were barking up the wrong tree), but I can't be asked to actually tell/prove you why." This is along the same lines as some of the people stating, "Randa/Evan wagons seem to be moving along without much resistance- seems suspect", but not really doing anything to STOP or FIGHT it. 2. "Can you explain where Randa is backpedaling? He does that as scum, so I'd feel more confident in a vote there if you linked me to that" - a question Refa asked regarding Randa. So you ask someone ELSE to provide quotes of him being scum, but you can't bother pulling up quotes you feel made him sound TOWN to you? Being purposely selective here or giving yourself a way/means to adjust your Randa read into a scummier one? Baaaaaaaaaaaa vote on Evan coming as a result of sheeping Via. Going into D2, opens up with another Shinori vote/case, and a priority of Shinori > Athena > Elemina > Eury (Hey look I'm here! Wait...) He's concerned of general consensus of the Randa/RAD slot, when neither players really did anything to rectify the slot. (This makes me question if this is due to him KNOWING that RAD slot is town, which only scum would 100% have known, unless he had him cleared/confirmed in another side/role manner.) Pushes Athena as being scummy under Shinori, flip-flops on the read on me, sheeps JB's read on Elemina, and finds Shinori most scummy in the end. Assuming the vote swap off of Shinori onto Athena is due to Faked Guilty claim from Shinori. The rest has already been taken apart in prior posts. This post is another reason why I don't fully buy into the FAKE GUILTY CLAIM as NOT being staged. "Oh man this was good/bad reaction to the test, etc. etc." > In addition, the following notion rubs me the wrong way: "Don't see this reaction test coming from Scum!You, so uh...at least it helped me out in that aspect despite stressing me the hell out." Consider the following notions: 1. If you're town, and someone claims against you to have read you as scum/guilty on you, you are the one who knows 100% that you are town. Why, then, would you become stressed out over a false guilty charge? 2. With the end result of the claim being completely fake, why then could Scum!nori not have pulled this reactionary gambit? He explicitly did it in a fashion to avoid end of the day phase from happening with everyone on you, but this also means that he would not have been liable HAD you flipped town. Nothing he said or did caused any massive shift in terms of who lived, who died, and who flipped. In fact, nothing but your claim came out of this, and him supposedly getting a better read out of your reaction. So I ask once again, @Refa, what inherit risk does this action/gambit host towards Scum!nori and why couldn't he have done it from a non-town perspective? (Especially when he had you in his interests to either convict or otherwise rattle you for information if he was suspecting you as much as he was.) This is why I view this reaction test as something that benefited both Shinori and Refa. And why exactly it is plausible for both of them to be scum and pull this off as they have. Why are you asking who to vote? This is basically just sheeping all over again. Stating "I'm such obvious town" when you're not really that obvious to the rest of us. Asked who to vote, never actually swapped LMAO. That efforting tho. Vote on Conqueror (Someone else I need to read and see the cases about), and states OK consolidation on Bartozio due to SHEEPING Athena and SB. Baaaaaaaaaa Also, why so disinterested in the Elemina slot? --- I'm going to breeze over Refa v Conqueror banter because I don't know the full casing behind Conqueror's ISO. I will return to it shortly once I'm done with Bart's ISO. --- Refa sheeping SB's case (and asks for verification from SB before voting me). Baaaaaa baaaa baaaaa black sheep. TL;dr on Refa's slot: Can you cut me a bit of profit of that wool you got there? 'Cause you must have a massive flock of sheep by this point. Realtalk: He has not really improved much since D1 for me. I will have to look at the interactions within the Conqueror situation, but again, lacking the information currently as I'm making this post. Will be covering it later. His slot still looks bad to me. Plenty of interactions with Shinori, and both parties (Shinori and Refa) have eventually backpedaled away from reading each other as scum as a result of the Fake Guilty reaction test. Both of you guys clearly had a strong negative on each other, which apparently evaporated upon the gambit event taking place- this seems extremely unrealistic and way too fast to be jumping overall reads without any solid REASONS (flips, scans, etc.) to validate one to the other as being scum or not. This is an important association to consider if/when either start flipping. > Also why would you not care to vote swap/consider your vote when you dealt with the situation in D2? That makes little sense to me, and isn't a means/source of demotivation factor IMO. Vote wrt Evan was also poorly made, as has most of his sheeping instances and cases. Has frequent interactions with SB, and seeks opinions/justifications from SB's cases somewhat frequently before going along with them in multiple occasions. Both have picked at each other, but also defended each other on certain points, which makes for a relatively steady associative read with SB slot as well. Despite having points in which he found Randa OK, Refa did nothing to stand up much against the cases. Being "too lazy" to post anything as counterpoints to the prominent wagon basically means you don't have the interest to defend an actual town read and put forth a stronger scum read in its place. That is something I find scummy, because you're watching someone go to the lynch that you REALLY don't think is scum but shrugging it off for your own things. --- Moving onto Bartozio. --

Time to knock out more ISO reads. SB Gunned out the RVS ED1 with Athena case, which was already stated that I didn't really care for or agree with. Expecting Athena to be scumhunting at that point in the game seemed highly unrealistic and oddly nit-picky. Moves off of Athena in lieu of Randa. This post (and the one before) kind of waffles on Refa, but ends up as a null-tell on him. Waffles more on Refa, and almost seems to soft-defend him and to handwave him as being scum for the most part. Based around the demotivated parts, saying he probably wasn't scum unless his buddies were disconnected from the game, etc. TL:DR: Refa is playing "too badly" to be scum defense notions. If Refa's scum, then he should feel bad for posting like this! (Basically saying he really wouldn't do so as scum. Super waffly read on Evan and Bart and Athena. Lists Randa > Bart > Evan as priorities. Light convo/interactions with Refa, supporting of Randa/Evan choices for end of day, but not Refa. Continues to defend Refa with notions of, "was too blatantly bad to come from scum unless he's like... scum with Randa and some other hard inactive player but it feels too specific. " Minimalistic casting of shade on Refa but once again non-commital/not really giving a read on his slot. Is basically on the wall with basically every read in this post, maybe sans Athena. Disinterest in putting Evan in priority (apparently due to BBM reading skills noted in later posts). Backpedals on prior Evan non-priority/Ice priority and swaps them from previous posts. (AKA. Suspects Evan more and drops Ice for the most part) Unvote and moves back to Athena. Moves Evan above Randa. Uncertain if Evan was put above Athena though at this point? Still uncertain as to what was garnered on the Athena read/notions here? Have a weird vibe that timeframe of posting was used to kind of put some distance between SB and voting RAD come near the end of the day phase. SB Re-read on Refa: Not scum with Randa, but also guilty of easy voting on the Evan wagon and plausible false casing on himself (SB)? Still not really hard scum reading though, intent or otherwise. Also keeps priority scum read on RAD slot. Update on reads. On Refa specifically: "He's more "life" in his posts than demotivated Scum!Refa" I think I might've missed responding to this, so covering that now @SB. I think Refa would act the way he did with Shinori as scum pulling scum gambit with each other. Mainly due to the fact that, if Refa was picked to be lynched, he told us not to bother with Shinori and that any chances of it being a mislead would be due to a TAILOR. Never really got anything wrt him flipping scum, but then again scum!Refa would never be like, 'BUT MAN IF I FLIP SCUM SHINORI SHOULD DEF BE TRUSTED THEN" or something stupid like that. > Either way, based on the wording of Refa's post and his reaction, Shinori seems to be offered the best interest to looking good no matter how Refa flipped, if he got lynched instead of RAD last day phase. 1. Also, you aren't wrong about me not fully buying into Shinori's claim. I told everyone since D1 that I was having really weird gut vibes on his slot, and was not sure how I felt about his slot. His ill-time reaction test did not make me feel any better about that, if you couldn't tell by now by the other massive wall post today. 2. I've already stated Refa as being scummy before, and has been in my priority since the start, but as stated again earlier, RAD was my priority/main interest for D2, especially after having wagoned Evan off the first day phase over that slot. Didn't really feel the need to be like, 'SO YOU GUYS KNOW I FELT LIKE REFA WAS SCUM, SO WHOO HOO LETS GO WITH THS SHINO GUILTY CLAIM AND CHOO CHOO OFF TO LYNCHERINO NOOOOOSE!" sort of reaction? == Cut by drunken SB posts. My brain can't translate everything, sorry, but will get through what I can.== I'm assuming the demotivated not fighting back would imply Refa's reaction, which basically states that Refa is moreso in a good light based on the Guilty Gambit. So alongside Shinori (the biggest gunner of Refa IMO), SB is now also opting for a more positive outlook based on "fighting back", which is something I really don't see. Unless stating BULLSHIT (Since when would scum ever be like, "Yeh ok bro you got me! Damn you so good!") and activating his ability is considered "fighting back" in a townie manner, I'm not really seeing it. I also got prodded, as have several other people in this thread so far this game. Granted, mine was partially due to shitty work hours, but does getting prodded suddenly mean someone's demotivated? At what point does it turn into lurking/coasting scum? Being conscripted into a game or coerced by some outside means doesn't matter. If Refa was really demotivated to the point of not wanting to play, there is the option to saying NO. That is not a reason to be inactive or perform in a demotivated way. Another option is also to ask for a sub. Also talking/interacting with someone loud/active is not a bad way to entice activity levels, and is easier to do than to hunt for quieter people for associations/interactions. A loud mouth will always be willing to interact so long as you shoot them questions, cases, etc. Past games are past games. If his demotivation stemmed from a past game's player base not reacting/listening to him, how would he expect people to listen to him if he's not putting forth much of anything? If he doesn't feel like saying much because "no one's going to listen to me", it doesn't validate not being moreso active/proactive in a new game? **Granted, last game also had much LOUDER parties including some like Makaze/Omega thundering throughout the day phase and running a lot of what was going on, so it could've been partially affected by the players themselves. Not that any of them are in this game though. "don’t agree with baldrick’s refa case but i’ll let refa answer him". What? I don't think Refa requires PERMISSION to answer/respond to someone's post? Or is this another side note consideration of fighting off another Refa case, in which case it's moreso you defending him again? My reads are being refined as we speak. Going through ISO's currently, and will refine a vote thereafter. Also now reading Refa based on tone? Describe being more "scattered" in responses and at what point is someone "making up thought processes"? Same as artificing cases/points or different? -- Passing on the next couple of posts since they were cased on me and I already responded to them. -- My reaction was partially based on the fact that I don't fully trust Shinori's slot. Even less so, now. Refa being claimed guilty also put RAD, my top candidate yesterday, on the back burners, which I didn't like. I don't actually know what the case status is on Bartozio atm, so I'll post thoughts later wrt this vote. Saw this earlier, but opted to answer you via this reads post instead of spam posting small shit. @SB. So you can see the answer/response to your last post. The way I see it, he loses less by claiming this as scum!nori than town!nori. 1. He's informing people that he can see who's targeting him. And if multiple people already hit him with varied means, then it's implying that he's more of a witness-esque passive role that is not one really necessary to mess with. Gut implies that this was also a small gambit in dissuading people from doing things like aiming RB's at him. Which, as scum, would still affect him because of NK participation? (And if it IS scum!nori, then he's one of the towniest players currently being read and one least likely to be nailed by information/interference abilities currently.) 2. Now my question is moreso, "Why would town!nori crumb this role?". IF he is town!nori, then I'm assuming he assumed that whoever dropped non-lethal (assuming as such since he didn't die that night phase?) actions were seen, to little to no effect. Maybe cop was on him, maybe doc was on him, maybe someone else? But if there were multiple people, I don't really understand why he'd bother stating this fact, as he wouldn't know whether he got scanned by a role cop, attempted to be blocked, or something else (As I'm under the general impression of watchers is that they see people, not the actions they perform, unless the Mafia wiki thing is inaccurate on that account) or from whom the actions came from? The one sole information I could garner is that maybe whoever WASN'T at his place was NOT the killer of Via, as janitor is usually an activated ability (so would require them to use the ability and do the kill in one spot)? But even then, that doesn't do a whole lot since another scum member could've been checking him out instead (just verifies that they weren't Via's killer, but could be scum nonetheless). But the problem with this is that it would discourage scum from wanting to mess with him if/when he did crumb it, so why did he? Unless someone wants to get a random DOC claim or something else verified by him by showing up at his place (and showing up on his reads as a result), I don't actually know why town!nori would bother stating the crumb. TL;DR read on SB Slot: Pretty bad. He defends Refa almost excessively, and most of the reasons used as justifications just don't sound good/solid to me. Athena reads flicker constantly in his reads (something to consider in terms of associations), and he is constantly interacting with people (including Shinori) who seem to have issues with Refa cases. In addition, apparently he sat his vote on Athena at the end of D1. Did not fully catch that earlier, but I question that vote, as Athena lynch was not of a main interest as the day phase was winding down. This also bothers me, because you're not really helping town reach any sort of meaningful consensus by not contributing the vote to one of the ending lynches, even after you stated you would lynch Evan wagon over Randa/RAD's? Bartozio case/vote I need to personally look into as I have not re-read into Bartozio's slot overall, but overall I'm not really impressed by SB's content/ISO. I sense interactions/associative reads strongly with Refa, and lesser ones with Shinori- the latter is mostly bantering about Shinori's Refa cases/notions and SB arguing against them. The ED1 banter back and forth between Shinori/SB also reads a bit as "Lets get out of RVS together and paint things for us in a townier light for #efforting out of RVS" to me, which is bothering me with their interactions. Moving onto Refa/Bartozio (so I can get back to the SB thing on him).

Because you had more beef with Refa it seemed moreso than Randa. Also didn't help that Randa/RAD seemed to go MIA for a while, which meant that the slot kinda sat there and stagnated. It would therefore seem more logical to work on a more active slot/read than to just sit on a slot that went dead ass silent for a while. Welp, that's too bad. Got 17 hours left to this day phase, you can afford to wait a couple more hours for me to post my thoughts. Tbh, most people probably won't read my reads or agree with them, as they're catered to a chunk of people not really under fire. Which is probably going to read/look weird af, but hey, gotta get my thoughts out somehow, even if it's not popular opinion.You are clearly amongst them. My vote will be following thereafter. You can make your read on my slot after it is completed.

I stated the theoretics of where my mind went and what was plausible. End of story. Saying you got targeted implies that people either inspected you, doc'd you, or some other plethora of implications. I wouldn't say that Scum!Nori wouldn't do so, because what you implied in itself was pretty vague. Also, @SB. His phrasing and words were not subtle at all. Anyone remotely reading any of his posts would have garnered the crumb easy as fuck. Me pointing it out voiced what probably 90% of the thread (at least in reading it basically) probably considered when they did. Period. I also personally have my own reasons as to questioning you about it. Also LMAO I've been your buddy ONCE and it was shitshow. That game didn't do shit in terms of learning how to operate with you as my scumbuddy, it only made me lazy and complacent with my gameplay (given that most of my "interaction with you" was IRL not in-thread lmao), which probably got me killed. Via's townreads were less of what I looked into, in favor of people constantly highlighting his scum reads in the past day phase in terms of mislynch targets. Regarding townie side reads, it opens up that door of consideration that I did not personally think of, but like others said, part of it was also him being a relatively strong townish read too. Both points make for a good NK target. 2 night phases, 3 dead townies, and no cop results in either direction to be seen. Would've figured by now *something* of use would've come to light, whether to clear someone under suspect, or to lock down scum. 3 down townies later, and still no hits in either direction to fortify any sort of reads? I'd start questioning the utility/effectiveness if that's the case, unless via happened to die with said cop role. Sure, I suspect you. I have since D1 to some extent. However, I JUST stated that I wanted to go through the people I want to read through before I vote? You know that's exactly how I work, so why push me on that point? I've done it multiple times in almost every game I play (I get out my reads THEN I vote?), so the fuck is that nitpick?

Is it really? 'Cause I see a lack of scum being dead so far this game.

You say that, yet you post this: So me asking about your comment is bad, even though you posted the implications yourself? Okay. NO SHIT VIA DIED N1 AND GOT JANITORED BY THE LOOKS OF THE LACK OF PM FLIP. I said she died BECAUSE OF HER CASING, LINES OF LOGIC, all of which were, as of thus far, MISLYNCH targets. Call it "assisting in directing mislynches" by means of people utilizing a dead person's reads to support prior day's lynch interests. Except a cop claim to lock down a secure scum kill, which could've actually flipped some associative reads as well, would've done us townies a good thing? Also, doctors/protective roles can exist and often do to some degree, and if Scum RB focuses on cop solely, then other town-sided power roles have a higher chance of getting through? You did realize that Anarchy was 48 hours right? Why wait 'til post 24 hours+ in order to do the gambit? Makes no sense, especially if you were concerned at all about time and people vote sitting. I have yet to read through Conq, but it still came off as odd to me that you of all people spoke up against Refa tunneling. Could be the above noted situation though, in which case I would retract that point. If you noticed my phrasing I had Refa/SB noted. You also never did give any heavy reads wrt SB, which is likewise what bothered me. The notions of wagoning were moreso on Refa than SB, but maybe I phrased that sentence weird. English sucks like that (or at least mine does). Not going to vote until I get through the other people.

Committed = Seeing the case through to an actual lynch. Pushing them as an actual FINAL lynch candidate. Neither SB nor Refa have been done, despite your tunneling/persistent casing. Clearly you're not being convincing, or something else is going on. Or you're not being serious in your actual pursuit/zeal of them. Also please explain exactly what Refa did in his reaction that's so telling. From what I see below: "Hey gaiz my role is obv town lmao". How is a vote total revealer indicative of scum or townside? It's no different than other roles like Announcer or something public like that. LULZ TAILOR ROLE SPEC WTF IS GOING ON. Also the use of this Tailor spec also tells people to not gun for you regardless of how Refa would flip. If he flips scum, you get cred. If he flips town under the pretense of TAILOR, then you still get towncred. ???????????? I also don't see how I garner any benefit or FEAR him being cleared. If he clears himself, then I no need to worry myself over his slot, and can focus on other people I deem as scum. That HELPS me more than harm. I don't understand that logic either. Stating that RAD is a bad lynch doesn't do us anything either. Asking in his last post who to vote also does no good, since most people were sold in RAD anyways (myself included). Literally zero things were actually meaningful or telling in this post, yet you accept it as him being more townie than not because of it.

Then probably ignore the next couple of posts, as they will be Refa/SB filled and both are associations that reflect poorly on Shinori's slot.

I refuse to retype out everything I just typed. I'm just going to HYPER Tl:dr my posts I was working on regarding Shinori and Refa (two massive chunks I had going on). I may chop up the posts as to one of Shinori, one of Refa, to hopefully avoid tempting SF forums fate in losing yet ANOTHER post. Shinori/Refa are plausible scum buddies. And as stated before, Shinori has been bugging me on gut since ED1. I will elaborate on what I can fucking REMEMBER from my bigger post earlier. Shinori has not committed to Refa/SB cases at all. For as much as Shinori has been tunneling Refa, I do not truly believe that his half-baked Reaction Fake Claim test was enough to pull him that far off of Refa, nor does it justify him offering him as a better read to the rest of us players. Refa has said and done nothing to remove the prior reads on his slot. I consider this SB interaction as scum playing on scum to garner early game movement, which more often than not serves as more "Proactive townie movement out of RVS" Starts to move towards Refa things. Moves onto Randa --- Insert more tunneling on Randa posts --- I still believe this was Shinori's way of not committing to Randa in vote swapping to Refa, which makes me look at it with more sus given RAD's flip *Randa, not RAD. Where he starts asking for Vig shots on Randa/Refa slot. Chewing more on Refa posts/casing. Starts asking people to explicitly look at himself V Refa. This becomes something habitual/repetitive, just like him asking for vig shots on certain slots. This makes me question whether his "interactions" with Refa are more staged than not, which would be making the most out of Refa's "Demotivated" gameplay and time posting. Asks Ice about himself V. Refa. Asking for RAD/Evan slots to be shot too. If a wagon is being pushed far too fast with no resistance (and looks really suspect as a result), if it bothers you, why is there not more active voicing out against the wagon? Sure you comment on it, but you do nothing to stop it. Watching someone push someone else off a cliff without bothering to help or interfere at all is just as bad as the person doing the actual pushing. You're looking on without doing anything about it. You mention Ice being a scummish read here and a few posts before, but I don't really get the impression that you're pushing that far into the read itself? Once again, Evan wagon seems super SUSPECT yet you don't anything much about it? Little too passive of a gameplay if you're having those sort of thoughts regarding a wagon. I've seen you fight against worse cases (Even regarding defending myself as you've done in several games), so this just doesn't feel right to me. Are you a self-watcher or something??? That first comment in itself made me wonder, and consider 2 options: 1. You're a self-watching role, or 2. You were notified by someone else (AKA. Scum buddy watcher) that you were visited by people during the night. Either way, I'm not feeling great about either option, as we've already had a Townie vanilla flip, and an ACTIVE watcher would serve townside far better in this case than a passive/self-watcher. (Also you hinting at that makes me feel like you would not do that as town!nori, because you're dissuading scum from wanting to target you??) Also the linked post is one hell of a big post once again locking down on Refa's slot. Once again another big ass post regarding Refa being scummy af. Also, things in this post: Bolded: This is actually the reason why I believe Via was killed N1. Multiple people- including Shinori and KTS (top two that I can recall off the top of my head atm)- have been pulling up Via's reads and utilizing them as guidelines in directing towards the lynch candidates (or, as we all know NOW, MISLYNCH candidates). Italicized: Lines up RAD over Refa, and yet you seem convinced of Refa 100% that he's scum. Ok. Good to keep in mind for later on. Bantering with SB wrt Refa. Also SB has constantly been defending Refa with less than stellar reasons/points, which is another thing to keep in mind for associations. In tandem with the Hoot-hoot claim earlier, I question what aspect of "guilty" you were aiming for. In addition to Refa never being my TOP scum read, I later considered the concept of "What sort of guilty were you aiming to claim as well? Cop? Watcher/Voyeur/Tracker (watching Refa go to the NK target's place?) or something like it?", but by that time it was the end of the day phase and I was all sorts of frustrated with Shinori over the fake claim situation. LOOKING AT EVERYTHING ABOVE- Everything Shinori had issues with wrt Refa's slot- is where I have the problems of how/why Shinori is so adamant about not really scum reading him anymore post fake claim gambit. The only thing that really happened outside of that was me becoming suspected because I didn't go super enthusiastic wrt Refa being under fire, and Refa apparently being better read by Shinori? Gut feeling is that this entire situation was STAGED (in which Refa's reactions/posting was actually pretty standard and seemed pretty easy to me) in order to get Refa in a better light and to throw the people moreso onto RAD than Refa in the last day phase. More will be covered when going over Refa's posts in the next one. In addition, regarding the Gambit Fake Claim post: When it was originally made, (on the SF time stamps), it was 8:50 PM. When Shinori broke away from it after a few reactions, it was 10:15PM. This is a poor timeframe to garner reactions from, and if TIME was a concern (and the fact that he sought out multiple people's opinions or WANTED to from the gambit), why was it not posted as say, HIS FIRST POST where everyone thereafter would be able to see gambit and react/respond to it? Better reads, more open timing, and HAD HE ASKED THE MODS (which is something he should've done if he's pulling something like this), Marth confirmed to me that we are unable to HAMMER someone when in Anarchy (I asked him this as part of the start of the Anarchy phase, as that was a legitimate concern of mine in terms of not being able to see other people's votes). So vote piling early onto Refa (if people bought the fake claim) with ample time to discuss/diffuse would've made 100% MORE SENSE than to just have it be there for less than 2 hours, cherry pick reactions from Refa (who was oddly active during the time- very convenient of a fact regarding the situation. You SURE this wasn't staged?) and a few others, and be done with the situation. This is why I view Shinori's overall Gambit as being frustrating, confusing, but also (when I had time to look at the picture afterwards as a whole) is actually starting to come off as being bad to me. It did not affect me in a scummy manner INITIALLY (which I posted earlier), but I also have not done a super deep ISO surf on his slot for a while, which was something I should've admittedly done sooner and I regret not doing so. This post also becomes pointless if the entire situation was staged by Shinori and Refa. You're calling out Conq for having a "weird tunnel on Refa" when you've been one of Refa's biggest antagonists??? Pot meet kettle? I feel like it took a while for Shinori to actually go in-depth with an actual casing of Ice, despite suspecting the slot far earlier. Gut tells me Ice was put on the back burners in lieu of ensuring RAD/Evan/Refa situations were taken care of beforehand. TL:DR: Shinori slot is bothering me a LOT. His interactions with Refa and SB look a lot of suspect to me atm. Shinori's wagoning of Refa since D1 doesn't change anything even if it's a scum/scum thing. We know that Shinori LOVES to bus his buddies- it's even become a meme amongst the Mafia players here. Him backing off of Refa due to the one reaction test also does not come clean to me, because it just doesn't feel JUSTIFIED. For as much investment as he's put towards casing/arguing/counter-pointing Refa, this seems like an extremely strong 180 of Refa falling off his concerns/spectrum of lynch interest, which is rubbing me the wrong way hard. Shinori has also applied pressure/had issues with SB several times, but has never done anything about it? Reading the actions as a WHOLE (not just during the timeframes in which they happened), it almost feels artificial in terms of dropping some dirt but then looking away and not doing much about it. He also seemed to take far longer time to case/look into Ice for him putting Ice on his priority, and overall his interactions are feeling worse as the day phase moves on. *Moving onto Refa in a moment. Need to get something to drink and hoping SF doesn't murder another post of mine.

I just literally lost my entire post by reloading posts on SEPARATE tab that refreshed THIS tab for some fucking reason. I'm done.