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What if a "Deluxe" version of SSBU was released on the next Nintendo system, with all the DLC from the Switch version included, and they released a new wave of DLC for the Deluxe version? Furthermore, all your data from the Switch version carries over, including unlocked Fighters, Spirits, achievements, etc. A lot of the groundwork would already be done since they'd be using the Switch version as a starting point. Thus, the majority of development time could be spent on creating more content for the game. Obviously Fighters, Stages, Spirits, and Mii Costumes would be the focus, but I feel like there's potential for some other additions to the game as well. Extra Bosses, including some for characters who originally didn't get any despite having easy choices (like Mega Man and Sonic). Custom Specials, as they already have the framework thanks to the Mii Fighters. Target Smash courses, ideally with a greater variety than in Brawl and perhaps with the option of creating custom courses. Past stages that were left out of Ultimate. Smash Run. New Pokemon and Assists, as well as Pokeball and Assist Trophy versions of characters who are now also playable (like Charizard and Little Mac). Poke Ball and Assist Trophy selection menus that let you choose which Pokemon/Assists appear. An expanded Tournament mode that now allows up to 64 contestants, with battle sizes up to 8, up to 8 brackets, and the option of teams of 2, 3, or 4 fighters who advance or get knocked out together. Info in the Spirit Gallery that allows it to serve as a replacement for the Trophy Galleries from Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4. Individual Spirit Boards for every single fighter, making it easier to find some Spirits Really, if Ultimate was "Everyone is here", then U-Deluxe could be "Everything is here". New Fighters (Base) New Stages and Music (Base) New Bosses What would you all like to see in a Deluxe edition?

Ok so this list has characters you won't think would get in here are your choices Red from angry birds Chuchel Om nom from cut the rope which would you pick?

I was thinking of this for a while, since Super Smash Bros. series has Konami, Sega, Capcom, Namco, Square Enix, Atlus (some people claimed it as Sega for Joker, Atlus had their name on the credits), Microsoft, and lastly SNK had their own characters from their franchises joins in the roster. What about Atari character qualifies as a fighter to join in the fight? I do recall Atari was kinda a big company for the video game department back at the late 1970s before Nintendo comes through before they started a console war with Sega back then since their biggest console success was the Atari arcades and Atari 2600 consoles. I was thinking Bentley Bear from Crystal Castles might be qualify as a fighter, but I did saw some of their best sellers were listed for Atari that I recall remembering such as Asteroids, Missle Command, and Adventure are definitely Atari property. I did played most of Atari arcade games from the compilation on the PC years ago, but I don't recall there's alot of characters showing up on screen? They were merely just showed up as vehicles and ships for their games, but then again that I do recall Captain Falcon himself hasn't shown his face in-game in the first F-Zero game and I don't exactly know if Asteroids, Missle Command, and Adventure had any characters showed up? But, which Atari video game originated characters (please don't use E.T. since he's counted as a Movie Character not a Video Game Originated Character) do you guy think it qualifies as a fighter if one of the Atari characters joins up for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for the Fighter Pass or for the later games?

Yeah, I saw this video, but, I was sad for this Smash Direct, and Edelgard was disconfirmed to be a Fighter, only appears as a cameo in the Stage: Garreg Mach Monastery and Spirit. And you, what do you think about this fighter?

So, I thought of neat idea for a thread. I am not sure if this has been asked yet, but feel free to list you favorite costume for any and all characters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. If you have any other favorite costumes for character in other Smash Bros. games or any costumes that you wish a character had, feel free to list them as well. I will start: I like the cyan colored Inkling with the glasses. I wear glasses myself, and I think that Inkling dressed himself kind of dorky like I probably would. I also like Mario's Builder costume. It is nothing new, thanks to Super Mario Maker; but, it really stands out to me compared to his usual costumes.

So yesterday, it was revealed that Final Smash meters are finally a thing. Previously in the competitive scene, Final Smashes were banned because they were dependent on the Smash Ball, an item that could spawn anywhere on the stage. But with Final Smash meters, that factor of randomness is gone. In addition, Final Smashes activated through the meter are weaker than their Smash Ball counterpoints. My question to you is this: should Final Smash meters be made legal? Here's my stance on the matter: they should be made legal and here's why Final Smashes have always been the Smash equivalent of super moves from literally every fighting game ever. And now with the meters, it feels a lot closer to that. The Final Smashes are weaker. Sure, some are still very powerful and not all Final Smashes are made equal. The same applies to super moves in a lot of other fighting games. And i've seen the point that Marth's Final Smash, even when weakened, can still OHKO. However, a lot of Final Smashes, especially Critical Hit, are easily dodgeable. The only point against this that i do understand is Infernal Climax, Bayonetta's Final Smash, as it's a universal time slow-down that kills anyone above 100%. Though, to be fair, we don't know how Infernal Climax is being handled when used through the meter. Final Smashes are hype as hell. This is very important for viewership. Sakurai has already added little things to make the game a lot more enjoyable for the spectator. Things like the score appearing after each stock is taken to more easily show the audience who's winning. The slow-mo effect on strong moves and finishing moves to really drive home that satisfying impact. Having Final Smash meters be legal would add to that even more, especially since Sakurai has made a point in making a lot Final Smashes quick and straight to the point.

Project FE X SSB (Currently planned to be named Fire Emblem: The Subspace Emissary) is a crossover game between the gameplay of Fire Emblem and the characters of the Super Smash Bros. series. It is planned to be a little over 30 chapters long, with the possibility of ten additional postgame maps. Every character in the series is intended to be a playable character, except for Dr. Mario, Young Link (due to redundancy), Solid Snake, Pac-Man, Cloud, and Bayonetta (due to those companies' strict policies on fanmade content. I don't want to anger the entire industry). The story has a similar setting, premise, and plotline to The Subspace Emissary from Super Smash Bros. Brawl. However, the plot has been heavily tuned up to provide a more engaging and effective story. The game follows two groups on their quest to fight back against an army comprised of fake copies of people, who later join together for the ultimate showdown against the one behind it all. The game's soundtrack will comprise of GBA rearrangements of tracks ranging from Smash Bros. originals or songs from the OSTs of one of the many series it hosts. Right now, though, the development of this fangame is at a bit of a standstill. Currently, the game is planned to be developed in FEXNA - not because it's a 'make game' button or anything, but because it uses a language similar to RPG Maker, something I'm very familiar with, speeding up the process somewhat. As of now, FEXNA is not going to be released anytime soon. That leaves only the things not needing FEXNA - sprite art, music, and possibly map design. I don't exactly have much experience with graphic design - this is probably the best I can do, and that was just a reskin. And while I can judge music pretty well, I know next to nothing about actually creating it. I'm probably going to have to wait a bit longer before actually beginning any kind of development, but I still wanted to share what I had in mind.

Welcome to JBF, "Joined By Fate", the next smash tournament series ran by yours truly, while RoSF (Revival of Serenes Forest Smash) ends with our final 4, I've been meaning to get this one off the ground for some time. We are looking to start this series on Friday the 18th, with stricter timeframes to do matches, 3/4 days per round, however when Easter comes along that set of days will be more lax and we will get there when we get there. If we max out sign ups before then, we might be able to get some matches done with, if its convenient. The Bracket is here -> http://sforestsmash.challonge.com/JbF2016 This will be on Wii U, I will probably run a side 3DS tourney sometime in the near future however, but I cannot record matches as I lack a 3DS capture card at this time. Ruleset 3 Stock 8 Minutes Best 2 of 3, except in Finals, best 3 out of 5 Double Elimination No Customs The Stage List is gonna be from my scene (Blackwolf in Spokane), if you have issues with it. I'll be willing to change it around, just ask me for certain stages and present a case for or against one. Starter Stages ● Battlefield ● Final Destination ● Smashville ● Dreamland 64 ● Town & City Counterpick Stages ● Duck Hunt ● Lylat Cruise ● Omega Stages* * Treated as Final Destination in banning phase. If Final Destination is banned, Omega Stages are banned and vice versa. Players must adhere to the standards of stage picks, first the starter stage is decided by umm... Not sure in this case, Could rng roll or something else, but then whomever wins will cross a stage, then the other person will, etc, out of the starter stages only for the first match. Or the 2 can just agree to a stage to start on with no hassle. Whomever wins a match, can strike 2 stages and the person who lost may select out of the remaining legal stages. There is also something called Dave's Stupid rule, where you cannot counter-pick to a stage you've won on in the set Character Changes - While you can change your characters during the set, you must tell your opponent you are switching and who to, as is proper in an official tournament. Unless you 2 agree to be secretive, I don't mind either way There is also the Gentleman's agreement, in which both players can agree to play on a nonlegal stage, this also can override Dave's Stupid Rule Mii Fighters are allowed, but they must be 1111 set, sorry folks. - Matches will be recorded and sent to me, may as well add my NNID which is Jedisupersonic, in advance to prep for this. I will also be uploading them to my channel for a tourney playlist, I have a capture card so time doesn't matter. - Please give me your NNID when you sign up, even if you did previously, just for consistency sake Sign Ups + NNIDs 1. Jedi - Jedisupersonic 2. General Horace - WAKKAWAKKAWAKKA 3. Euklyd - euklyd 4. Elieson - Elieson 5. Clarinets - Pick1e 6. Batter The Beast - lolinternets 7. Aura Wolf - Octaivian 8. AlexTheClumsyGrandmaster - Alex1111 9. Yoshi2398 - Albee2398 10. Dotty - RagamuffinDotty 11. Comet - Comet7 12. Tsunami922 - Tsunami922 13. LordTaco42 - LordTaco42 14. DreadFighter - NewerLuigi 15. Shezzy. - muforfun 16. XaosLogos - ZeRoToXiN Schedule DEADLINES - IF YOU DO NOT MEET THESE WITHOUT GOOD REASON, I WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO DISQUALIFY YOU The one who made an active effort to get the match done, will advance. If you have IRL reasons for not being able to do the match, please tell me. You may play games ahead of schedule, this will help the due process if you can, but just stick to this as your guideline, also Easter is gonna give a extra day for break Round 1 Begins proper on 3/18 - Ends on 3/21 Round 2/Round 1 Losers Begins 3/22 - Ends 3/26 Round 3/Round 2 Losers Begins 3/28 - Ends 3/30 Winners Finals/Round 3 Losers Begins 4/1 - Ends 4/3 Losers Quarters Begins 4/4 - Ends 4/6 Losers Semis Begins 4/7 - Ends 4/9 Losers Finals Begins 4/10- Ends 4/12 Grand Finals Begins 4/13 - Ends 4/15 Links to matches done so far Round 1 Dotty vs General Horace Jedi vs LordTaco Aura Wolf vs Yoshi DreadFighter vs AlexTheClumsyGrandmaster Comet vs Euklyd Batter vs Clarinets Tsunami vs XaosLogos Elieson vs Shezzy Round 1 Losers General Horace vs XaosLogos LordTaco vs Clarinets Yoshi vs Shezzy Comet forfeit so DreadFighter autoadvanced Round 2 Dotty vs Tsunami Jedi vs Batter Aura Wolf vs Elieson Alex forfeit due to a family trip, so Euklyd auto advances. Round 2 Losers Tsunami vs DreadFighter Alex Forfeit so Horace advanced Elieson vs LordTaco Batter vs Shezzy Winners Semi's Dotty vs Jedi Aura Wolf vs Euklyd Round 3 Losers Elieson vs General Horace Batter vs Tsunami Winners Finals Dotty vs Aura Wolf Losers Quarters Jedi vs General Horace Batter vs Euklyd Losers Semi's Batter Vs General Horace Losers Finals Aura Wolf vs Batter Grand Finals Dotty vs Aura Wolf

So we have a patch coming up VERY SOON. From what we know, Marth and Lucina seem to have a forward air buff (hint in one of the Corrin/Bayo vids), hopefully they get more, but what do you all want to see in terms of possible buffs and nerfs? I actually think we just need buffs at this point, buff the cast to the levels of the higher ups, I mean in the end this is still the most balanced smash game to date, which is pretty amazing considering we currently have 56 characters.

ESPN Plans on Broadcasting Smash Events Hoooooly cow, this is pretty big for Smash peeps.

Now, I know that there are quite a bit of Fire Emblem reps already, but only one from what might be one of the most famous eras of Fire Emblem: the Gameboy Advance era. So, if we could have more representatives without taking up other spaces of potential fighters, who would you want? Keep in mind, I only said the Gameboy Advance thing because I'm biased towards it, so choose anyone, from the NES, SNES, GC/Wii, etc. Also, feel free to list your ideas on play-style or attacks. My personal choices: Hector and Lyn. Lyn would be an interesting weapon-user with emphasis on both spacing and getting up close, while Hector would be like Ganondorf with an axe, sort of. Lyn: (Note: always has sword in sheath until she attacks. I also have no clue of how her PM version plays) Jab: Basic slice to knock opponents away; F-Tilt: A leaning slice with little endlag to combo into another tilt. Has somewhat high startup; U-Tilt: Slices upwards in front of her, hitting twice, and allowing for aerial follow-ups; D-tilt: Shield poke, no clue, really; F-Smash: based on the Sol Katti attack animation where she flips and strikes downwards; N-Air: A kick with low power and low landlag, good for air-to-ground; F-Air: Foward slice; B-Air: Kicks backward, then slices; D-Air: Almost like Marth's D-Air, but sacrifices range for lower end and land lag; U-Air: Dunno; Special: Iron Bow: Tapping special will send out an arrow with low power, but high speed, holding special will do the "Critical" version, where it has a bit more power behind it; Side Special: Attack (Can't really think of a good name): Does her attack animation as a Lord, which has decent power, but can be used as a pressure tool, since it can jump back after attacking on the ground, or can be used as a recovery tool; Up Special: Third Jump?; Down Special: Critical Counter: Basically the All-or-Nothing counter with high attack power but little counter frames. Hector: (Note: HEAVY and surprisingly fast) Hadn't thought much about it, but Side Special as the Hand Axe and Up Special as Armads-Copter?

I searched around and didn't find a topic for this yet so I figured I'd make one since others along with myself have enjoyed the Fire Emblem fanart thread. Especially since there is so much good fan art of Smash out there. Like with the Fire Emblem Fanart thread make sure we are all posting within the SF forum rules. No hotlinking, keep images appropriate, spoiler your images (particulalry if you have multiple ones or if they are large), and try your best to source the images that you post here. As long as its Smash related then feel free to share it here although don't forget to check out the Fire Emblem Fanart thread found here: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=38351 Of course if it has characters exclusive to Fire Emblem or is centered around Fire Emblem post it there. I'll start. Ryu and Kirby Source: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Ryu-539504773 Ryu vs Little Mac. Very Street fighter esque Source: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Ryu-Vs-Little-mac-542520461 Little Mac and WFT get fit for Smash. Source: http://www.deviantart.com/art/GET-FIT-for-SMASH-4-434973035 Item madness! Source: http://www.zerochan.net/788635 Captain Falcon trying to get that selfie Source: http://videogamedj.tumblr.com/post/100840882633/amazing-smash-bros-fan-art Robin putting people to sleep with his books. Source: https://www.paigeeworld.com/feed/tag/shulk Epic Link vs Samus Source: http://www.game-art-hq.com/53874/epic-battles-are-epic-link-vs-samus/

So Mary Jo Wood (Lyn from my fandub series) and I put together a quick dub for a comic we found on tumblr. Enjoy!

So since we now have yet another Fire Emblem character with a cape my interest in the cape designs made me want to make a video on it but when I did some research I did not find that much information so I'd like to ask you guys what some of these symbols/insignias are if they have any meaning at all. I will also add the information in this topic. Marth's The symbol of the Archanea nation. Ike's Greil Mercenaries. Roy's Elibe's Fire Emblem. Lucina's Mark Of Naga. Two Nagas. Three Grima eyes. I hope someone knows what these symbols are supposed to represent! (Also sorry if there is already a post like this I created this account today for the purpose of posting this thread)

Awhile back, even during Melees time. The advent of Smash Brothers made me want a certain game to happen, that never has nor probably will. It would involve the smash cast, doing a story mode of sorts, but going through each Nintendo world. Within each, the cast of Smash would have to adhere to the rules of the universe. If you were in Marios land, every character would be attributed to a Mario style character depending on how they are, (I.E Ganondorf would be a heavy jumper etc) If you were in Fire Emblem, all the cast would turn into FE like units, etc etc. I always have wanted to see this craziness and it kind of sounds like an NES Remix of sorts except with all eras of Nintendo. Could you imagine how hilariously over the top some people would be in Xenoblade? Imagine the Metroidvania aspects of Super Metroid style gameplay.. AS someone not even close to being like Samus! Etc Like when you entered a level or chapter or however the game worked, depending on the playstyle, be it single player, army based etc, you could choose out of all the smashers you had or if you had em all right from the start then, just everyone. Any thoughts?

So! Smash Brothers for 3DS! Watching Gameplay for the Wii U, it must be hella' lotta easier to use a controller, I'm guessing. So I'm used to using customized fighters against other customized fighters. By customized, I mean both custom moves, and custom items, such as those involving Attack, Speed, Defence, the whole sha-bang. I tried For Glory last night. I played for 5 matches. ...I lost all five. For the majority of them, I used my star Marth. While I'm used to using customized moves, again, the Marth I had made only varied when it came to his counter, which lasted a bit longer. But I got friggin' crushed. I don't know how people do it, I went up against, what, three damns Yoshi's? Their air attacks are just... Too much. But I realized, well, I've known, but it only began to frustrate me that Marth has so many laggy moves. His aerial attacks are hard to land, and if they miss, you WILL be punished. The same can be said for his dash attack. Oh, GOD his dash attack. I'm guessing that playing on the Wii U is much more flexible, or easier than the 3DS. But does anyone have any tips for Marth? Any Combos, or anything?

The site, royforsmash4.com, has received a complete remodel lately and close to 1,000 supporters via social media. All we have to do now is contact: -Both the Japanese and American Twitter accounts for Nintendo and Sakurai: https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/p370x247/10806422_675394742556535_8371856963359568165_n.jpg?oh=bfcf57cab8281f287174f6de3120fd05&oe=551C6CEF https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/p370x247/10806321_675394782556531_8852800882293331805_n.jpg?oh=94402bd44ff71446767a48df484b4088&oe=5513776A&__gda__=1427421624_4656b575de9f70444e1f2aad57c24972 https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/p370x247/10653441_675395082556501_8895445776791386660_n.jpg?oh=7d463b32a966c60adeeb8eaa2ae35c90&oe=551764A0&__gda__=1423926386_babe29909ef181e39ce04cf7c4a0c717 https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/p370x247/10734203_675394812556528_4831582214691892888_n.jpg?oh=8973986e6c93eabd9c7ccf0e1c55c4ff&oe=54E49583 -nintendo@noa.nintendo.com through personal e-mails. They reply often from what I hear. -Any streams or Nintendo Directs that Nintendo hosts. -Miiverse, and use arguments from royforsmash4.com against anyone opposing to hopefully persuade them to join our side. If anyone wishes to further contact me, please leave a message or wallpost on my profile. I will be ignoring this thread because I expect general pessimism and Roy koopa jokes from some.

As I'm sure many of us have, I've been playing a lot of Smash for 3DS, especially with the four Fire Emblem characters. Gotta say it's great, and they're all fun. Except... I think I'm missing something with Marth. So, I know the main difference between Marth and Lucina is that Marth does more damage at the tip of his sword and less damage on the rest of it, while Lucina's damage is a balanced middle along the entire blade. My first thought was "oh, so Lucina is a kind of skill-gate character. You play as her to get used to the mechanics, but Marth will be better since he takes more skill to use." I thought the tipper was enough to make Marth the superior character. Except, in practice, it isn't; at least in my experience so far. Because Lucina's sword is balanced throughout, she doesn't have to rely on keeping the enemy a certain distance away. As long as her sword can touch them, it will do solid damage. This means that she actually has a useful up-smash, unlike Marth's, which is completely useless unless you land the tipper (which is more trouble than it's worth, and you should probably up-tilt instead). Also, Marth's sword has been shortened even more since Brawl, which itself had shortened it from Melee. I'm pretty sure it's shorter than Link's sword now. Lucina's Falchion is of the same length, but if you have to get that much closer to hit someone, it's easier to just close the distance and attack than closing the distance while also worrying about landing the tipper. And the tipper itself. In Melee, the tipper was much easier to land, and was integral to his attacks. In Brawl, the tipper was made significantly smaller and much harder to land, which continues into SSB4. This was fine and dandy in Brawl, but now he has a clone who is better off without the tipper. (And he doesn't have chaingrabs anymore, but that's beside the point.) Ironically, I can't help but compare Marth to Roy. Roy 'sucked' because he had a poor sweetspot on his weapon, and sourspotting his attacks would hit like a wet noodle. Marth is the same way in this game. If you don't land that precise tipper, that forward-smash isn't doing anything. Meanwhile, Lucina's forward-smash is amazing, and can kill at medium percentages. Not to mention how both characters have the revamped Shield Breaker, which is basically the same thing in case their forward-smash is stale. Except Marth's Shield Breaker runs into the same problem as his up-smash: gotta land that tipper, bro. Stabbing is not Marth's strong suit. So I'd deduced most of this while playing, but then a thought occurred to me. The two Falchions deal different damages, but what about knockback? From what I've been able to determine since then, I've found that they are pretty much exactly the same. That is, Lucina's knockback isn't distributed throughout her sword; rather, it's identical to Marth's Falchion. An example is both character's down-aerials. I had assumed that Marth was the only one with a meteor smash, since you had to land the tipper for that to work and Lucina, well, didn't have one of those. I had also tried to land a meteor with Lucina several times and failed, but apparently those failures were just me sucking at the game, because I now know that her dair does, in fact, have a meteor smash at the tip. It seems to be just as powerful, too. I basically dropped my 3DS at this point, completely dumbfounded. What does Marth have that Lucina doesn't? Lucina appears to be superior in practically every way to Marth, with his only advantage being that little tipper. I posit that question to anyone reading this: am I missing something with Marth? Does he have some other advantage I don't know about? I hope the great Marth doesn't have to step down from his consistent place in the upper echelons of the tier lists. TL;DR: What's so great about Marth compared to Lucina? Thanks for the reply.

This thread is to speculate about the various possible alterations to our favorite moves. We know all of Mario's currently, one of Kirbies (Ice Breath neutral B) a few on other characters by name and one of Links Not to mention all of Palutenas and Miis variety. So what do you think we'll see and what do you WANT to see

Yeah I dunno, I thought this would be kind of a fun topic, if not particularly extensive. Share your mains from each SSB game and why you like to use them, I suppose! Regarding Smash 3U, let's just pick the characters you WANT to main based on the currently-released cast. Some characters like Ness and Captain Falcon and such are givens, but for the sake of discussion, let's assume nothing for now. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Personally I have way too many prospective mains for SSB4, even without Meta Knight and the miniscule prospect of Ridley. x__X Primary mains: Charizard Secondary mains: Greninja, Kirby, Megaman Tertiary mains: Yoshi, Bowser, Marth, Lucario, Sheik, one or both versions of Samus / Link I have some pretty clear franchise favoritism lol. Never been good with Marth, but now that I have a better understanding of his character I might be interested in getting better at using him. For the other games: (main mains are underlined) SSB mains: Samus, Pikachu, Kirby, Jigglypuff SSBM mains: Mewtwo, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Sheik SSBB mains: Meta Knight, Pokemon Trainer, Kirby, Ike, Samus Dunno why but for some reason I got sick of playing Pikachu when Brawl came out. I've always liked playing Kirby, though how terrible he was in Melee made it pretty hard in that game; and since I'm a pretty big Kirby/MK fan I pretty much called Meta Knight to be my main as soon as I saw him in the Brawl trailer (IT WAS BEFORE WE DISCOVERED HE WAS BROKEN, OKAY Q~Q). And then of course Charizard happened and I enjoyed playing as both other Pokemon as well. Most of the others are pretty much out of franchise respect (in Samus/Ike's case) or because the characters are just fun to play (Jigglypuff/Sheik/Ike again).