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Found 4 results

  1. Alright, so this is kinda random, but I started thinking about it after watching some of Jrose11's content. I suppose I must start with criteria here, but this is based on how useful these TM/HMs are while playing Red/Blue at a relatively fast pace, not really competitive Gen 1 play, or full blown speed run pace. I have a lot of them set aside as undecided so far, and any advise or argument for a TM/HM being in a higher or lower category I would appreciate. Now to describe the tiers. TOP tier set themselves apart as the most useful TMs in the game, and I expect to be used almost immediately, and having an impact on a massive portion of the game. GOOD tier are TMs I expect to be useful if you have a poke that can use it, and for that to be a relatively common occurrence. USABLE tier are TMs where some fairly normal runs could find them useful. SITUATIONAL tier are TMS where the times where it would be useful are rare, and might require an explanation for when it might be useful. USELESS tier are ones where I have a hard time imagine them ever being useful. I also have a large section of TMs that I haven't tiered yet. I haven't ordered the TMs within individual Tiers yet, but once I have placed all of them I might end up doing so. Top Tier TM 08 Body Slam (S.S. Anne): Body Slam is one of the best normal moves in the game, and its gotten extremely early. Its a solid move that can be the best option for most of the physical pokemon all the way into endgame. TM 13 Ice Beam (Celadon Dept): Great coverage move that wipes Lance off the map, available on a lot of pokes, with 100 accuracy, and even a 10% freeze chance. Blizzard is some noted competition for this move, but its power is high enough in general, and its available earlier. TM 24 Thunderbolt (Vermillian Gym): The best electric move in the game, and you can get it early. Electric moves are particularly valuable, as it deals well with many of Lorelei's pokemon, and the Gyrados(es) from Lance, and potentially the Rival, whom are otherwise dangerous threats. TM 28 Dig (Cerulean City): In this gen, it has 100 power and accuracy (same as earthquake), is gotten extremely early into the game, and even has a lot of utility with fast play, as it brings you back to the last pokecenter you visited when you can use it in this game. It has a bit of a trade-off in that its two turn (one protected) is a bit slower, but also lets you use some stall tactics, or cheese past the mandatory exploding hiker in rock tunnel, or Koga's exploding Weezing. Plus the ground typing is a great way of dealing with Agatha's obnoxious poison types. TM 29 Psychic (Saffron City): It has 30% special drop chance (in a game where that is both Special Attack, and Special Defense), psychic attacks being only resisted by psychic types, and having type advantage over Agatha's team. The worst you can say about it is it being gotten around the mid game. TM 31 Mimic (Saffron City): Gen 1 movesets tend to be shallow, and Mimic is a godsend in fixing that issue. Its available to any poke that learn TMs, and it lets you chose an opponent's move to copy for a battle, so it gives you access to a lot of interesting options that might otherwise be unavailable to you. There is even a glitch to make the move learn permanent (although it is a bit limited in requiring the enemy trainer to have switching in its AI). HM03 Surf (Safari Zone): This is the most suspect TM/HM in this tier, but it is the best reliable water move, can be used repeatedly, and with how available water type pokemon are at the point in the game you get this HM, that re-usability adds to its value. Good Tier TM 01 Mega Punch (Mt. Moon/Celadon Dept): I kinda view this as the Jeigan of TMs, as its one of the first TMs you ever get, and its an improvement to any poke's move list that can learn it. Make no mistake, this move will be replaced, as it has accuracy issues, but an 80 base power move in the point in the game where you are really on tackles is not to be ignored. TM 03 Sword's Dance (Silph Co.): If this move were available on more pokes with Stab on physical moves it would be Top Tier. It is still a great boosting move, that gives access to an extra 3 badge boost glitches, and the boost it gives is still fairly valuable in setting up a sweep. TM 11 Bubblebeam (Cerulean Gym): This is an extremely early TM, that will be an immediate boost to any early water type poke you have, but its how many other type pokes that can learn this move that push it into good tier. Its one of the earliest ways to access some extra type coverage, with good power for how early you get it. TM 14 Blizzard (Pokemon Mansion): This is a great TM, its a bit late game, but having 90 accuracy on an 120 power move is amazing, and the typing for it is excellent as well (and that is before mentioning the 10% freeze chance...). I considered it for top tier even, but Ice Beam edges it out. TM 26 Earthquake (Silph Co.) : It feels odd to leave the TM for a move that has been good throughout the generations in only Good Tier, but Dig so thoroughly outmatches it that it doesn't deserve to be in the same tier. Dig matches Earthquake in power and accuracy (in this gen at least), coming earlier, is available to more pokes, and has added utility outside of battle as well. Don't get me wrong its still a good TM, and you might even want to replace Dig with it in the endgame to save some time in battles, but its competition has edged it out of Top Tier. TM 38 Fire Blast (Cinnabar Gym): If any other fire TMs existed this might have fallen a place in the tier list, but it being the only way to add either fire coverage, or simply power up a Fire poke just barely pushes it here. Otherwise it is a bit of a mixed bag, its a late game TM, but many of the fire types that might want it tend to only be available later into the game as well, it might have the massive 120 power, but comes with accuracy issue to compensate. TM 45 Thunder Wave (Route 24): Paralysis is a nasty status effect (and while you do have to worry about a glitch if the enemy raises its speed, that is still a fairly rare occurrence), and having a 100% to debuff some of the most dangerous fast pokes you might face can really save you in the long run. TM 48 Rock Slide (Celadon Dept): As the only Rock move other than the embarrassingly bad rock throw (50 power, and 65 accuracy in this gen...), this move ends up being a vast improvement to any rock pokes, and a way to give physical pokes some desperately needed coverage. HM 02 Fly (Route 16): The second best Flying attack, but its much more available than its competition (drill peck). Its the go to stab flying move for most pokes in this game, and has the obvious outside utility, plus the two turns (one protected) can still be used with some stall tactics, or to cheese Koga's Weezing explosion (it unfortunately comes too late for the mandatory rock tunnel hiker...). HM 04 Strength (Fuchsia City): This is the most suspect TM/HM in this tier, but its the number of Pokes that can learn this move, it being reusable, and being the 2nd highest (tied) power move without side effects, that ends up push this just barely into Good tier. Usable Tier TM 05 Mega Kick (Celadon Dept/Victory Road): There is a lot of competition for Normal type moves, but the high damage (120 Power), at a low accuracy (and PP) tradeoff can be useful. TM 06 Toxic (Fuchsia Gym): Central to many stall tactics, with some beneficial bugs to boot. Combining it with Leech Seed (another common stall move) makes for a potent combo due to both raising the toxic timer. More offensive strategies are usually better, but stall is still usable in game. TM 10 Double Edge (Rocket Hideout): Despite the 100 power and accuracy of this move, the recoil on it is makes it true to its name. If you need that extra bit of power, and are willing to pay the price in the extra healing it can be a usable TM TM 15 Hyper Beam (Game Corner): If you didn't have to hemorrhage either money, or time into the game corner to get this TM it would be at least Good tier. The gen 1 glitch that makes this move not need to recharge when you ko a poke makes it an amazing move, but the cost of getting it is a bit prohibitive. TM 17 Submission (Victory Road): If this TM arrived earlier in the game it would be far better. It may be the best fighting move available to pokes other than hitmonlee, but it has accuracy issues, and the only thing left in the game is the elite 4 by the time you get it. Lorelei being an ice trainer makes it sound useful against her, but Cloister's sky high defense, and Jynx's psychic typing, make it only really effective against her Dewgong and Lapras. TM 25 Thunder (Power Plant): The low accuracy, and how much more out of the way it is than Thunderbolt, are what push it down into this tier. If you need an electric move, and have already used Thunderbolt, or desperately need that extra power (and are willing to risk the miss) it can still be useful to get. TM 32 Double Team (Fuchsia City/Celadon Dept): The raising of evasion is vital to a lot of stall tactics, which are viable in game. More offensive strategies are usually better, but stall is still usable. TM 33 Reflect (Power Plant/Celadon Dept): I considered putting this into the situational tier, but using the half physical damage to survive Koga's Weezing exploding, or forcing one of Lances pokes into a Hyper Beam recharge turn are useful enough to pull it into this tier. I will note that unlike most gens, it last for the entire battle, but only on the poke that used it TM 36 Self Destruct (Silph co.): The high power of this move will almost certainly finish off a dangerous poke, and with tactical use of it, and sufficient money spent on revives it is usable. TM 44 Rest (S.S. Anne): Central to many stall tactics, as it is one of the most common heal moves, and both fully heals, and heals status. Admittedly there are a lot of notable bugs making that status heal less useful than it sounds, as it doesn't reset the Toxic timer, and doesn't heal the speed drop and attack drop of Paralyze and Burn, but even if it didn't heal status at all it would still be a usable move for a tactic which is still viable. TM 47 Explosion (Victory Road): A stronger, latter game Self destruct, and the same blurb basically applies. Its massive power will finish off a dangerous poke, and with tactical use of it, and sufficient money spent on revives it is usable. TM 49 Tri Attack (Celadon Dept): Its how few Pokes that can learn this move that make it so low on the list. Its almost as good as Body slam, and comes a little later, but can be bought multiple times, but few pokes can learn it, and many of them are mediocre physical attackers at best. Situational Tier TM 07 Horn Drill(Celdaon Dept/Rocket Hideout): If you have to rely on the 30% accuracy OHKO moves, you are in a strange run. Admittedly you can use X accuracy to get rid of the accuracy check, but it still only works on slower pokes, so you might have to boost up speed as well (and if you don't you are probably using a poke good enough to use better options). TM 09 Take Down (Saffron City/Celadon Dept): Recoil, with lower might and accuracy that Double-Edge, using it over the numerous better normal moves is a strange situation to be in. TM 12 Water Gun (Mt. Moon): One of the better TMs in this tier as you get it early, but its 40 power (still better than bubble...) becomes obsolete very soon, as Bubble Beam is superior to it (and surf even more so), and there are few enemies it is useful against before it becomes obsolete. TM 16 Pay Day (Route 12): Its not very useful for combat, and not many pokes learn it, but if you desperately need access to extra money it might see some use... TM 18 Counter (Celadon Dept): Having to really on the enemy directly damaging you, to deal damage back is rarely a good idea... TM 19 Seismic Toss (Route 25): Usually normal attacks will out damage this fixed damage attack. Now it does scale with level, giving it more use in solo or low poke runs, and ignores all weakness and immunities in this game, so it has quite a few situational uses, I don't think it is quite enough or useable tier... TM 21 Mega Drain (Celadon Dept): This is a low power move for when you get it in the midgame, in an attacking type that isn't very useful. Now it does give a bit of healing, and I could see a grass type that learns growth taking this TM to avoid razor leaf's high crit chance from spoiling the buff strat, but both of those are niche enough to earn this tier. TM 22 Solar Beam (Pokemon Mansion): I almost put this in useless tier, as two turn unprotected moves are incredibly bad, but this is high enough power (120), and in a typing with bad enough competition that I could imagine someone using this TM... TM 23 Dragon Rage(Game Corner): Few pokes can learn it, the fixed damage becomes out modded later into the game, and its exorbitantly expensive to get thanks to the game corner. TM 27 Fissure (Viridian Gym): If you have to really on the 30% accuracy OHKO moves, you are in a strange run. Admittedly you can use X accuracy to get rid of the accuracy check, but it still only works on slower pokes, so you might have to boost up speed as well, but seeing as you managed to get all 8 badges to even get it, you probably already have better options. TM 34 Bide (Pewter Gym):This is so close to being in useless tier, but I could imagine a weird run where a poke's move set it so bad that this almost useless first TM might actually be an improvement. Plus its the only way for a few normal types to actually damage some of the mandatory ghost trainers in Pokemon Tower TM 39 Swift (Route 12): It just comes too late into the game, with too low of power, and too much competition with other Normal type moves to see enough use for it to reach usable tier. The ignoring of accuracy check gives it some notable situational uses, so its one of the better TMs in this tier. TM 41 Softboiled (Celadon City): This can only be learned by a single poke (other than Mew), and in this game, and that poke, Chansey, needs high quality special TMs to take advantage of its high special, and you could easily have room for this move, which has some utility in both stalling, and in saving money on healing items (or avoiding them all together). This one is really on the border between these tiers... TM 43 Sky Attack (Victory Road): I almost put this in useless tier, as two turn unprotected moves are incredibly bad, but 140 power on a flying type move is just high enough (on a rare enough attacking type) that I could imagine someone trying to use this move. HM 05 Flash (Route 2): Effectively this is a worse version of double team. Now if you cold replace the move flash with double team it would probably be in the next higher tier, but deciding to use it early locks you out of a more viable option (that is reusable as well due to it being sold), which makes this a niche enough choice to reach situational tier. Useless Tier TM 02 Razor Wind (Celadon Dept/Rocket Hideout): a two turn unprotected move that has only 80 power, and is a normal type is utterly useless... TM 04 Whirlwind (Route 4) : It does nothing in trainer battles, and you are not forced to encounter a wild pokemon after you get this TM, before you have access to repels... TM 20 Rage (Route 15) : One of the worst moves in the generation, and the way it locks you into using it can get you into one of the most famous softlocks in the game... TM 30 Teleport (Route 9) : It does nothing in trainer battles, and you get it after you have access to repel, and even if you wanted to use its field effect, you get dig, a move that lets you use the same effect, before you even have access to it. TM 35 Metronome (Cinnabar Island) : Using a random move is rarely good, and with how late into the game you get this TM, I can't imagine there being a run where it is a good idea to actually use this TM when you get it. If you got it earlier when you had less options it might reach situational, but you are near the end of the game when you get this... TM 37 Egg Bomb (Fuchsia City/Celadon Dept): Only three (four including Mew) pokes can learn this TM, none of them are primarily physical attackers, and while it has terrible accuracy to boot... TM 40 Skull Bash (Safari Zone): a two turn unprotected move that has only 100 power, and is a normal type is utterly useless... TM 42 Dream Eater (Viridian City): The sleep mechanics of this game may be broken, but having to rely on them to use a move is niche to begin with. Looking a bit more into it, its only available on the Drowzee, and Gastley line, both of which have to rely on the least accurate sleep move, Hypnosis. Psychic is the obvious move that competes with it, and even if you already used the TM Drowzee/Hypno learn it through level-up, and the Gastley line learns Dream eater itself through level-up if you really want this move, making this TM rather useless. TM 46 Psywave (Saffron Gym): Random fixed damage between 1 and 1.5 x your level is inconsistent, and terrible... HM 01 Cut (S.S. Anne) : By the time you get this, its a bad move, in one of the most common move types, and you can't replace it. Using it as anything other than a dead move slot is unimaginable. Undecided TM 50 Substitute - In this generation this move is so glitchy that I am uncertain how useful it would be
  2. When Dragonflowers were first released I was under the impression that they were a way to give a treat to your favorite units that applied in PvP modes, but also that they doubled as a way to help the Gen 1 units (namely infantry) catch up to the Gen 2, 3 and looks to be 4 units that have utterly left them behind. I came to realize that was untrue for 2 reasons. 1. Gen 2 infantry is subject to the same boosts, so Ayra and Karla can get those +2 to all stats just like Selena can. 2. The other movement types of old don't get the extra boost, so their BST is left in the dust. SI is a thing and weapon refines tend to bring old units out of the gutter but in a lot of cases they simply don't stand the test of time compared to the new ones, particularly the unlucky units that get the earliest refines. As powercreep continues the newer refines get newer and superior effects and the older ones show their age (Lyn and Jaffar are prime examples of this). So I had an idea, why not apply the Gen 3 BST to the older units. You can theorize and discuss this, I doubt it's possible to do in-game but we can at least theorize and discuss the additional 5-10 stats these older units would be getting and where they would be distributed. I'll list the stats then throw out a few of the examples you'd expect from me. I'll make a format, you can follow if you like. CYL3 units are special cases so BST will be calculated using alternative, though recent examples. Sigrun is also going to be counted as a Gen 4 unit, so she does not apply here either. Gen 3 BST: Things like Dragons and Trainee boosts result in confusing stat changes and nonsensical things like 180 BST so I'm going to avoid those. So yeah, basically the point of this topic is to discuss BST boosts to old units and if you like, apply those boosts to units of your choosing and state why they would be distributed that way. I'm tired so I'm only going to do one of these for now. I probably won't be able to edit this post so sorry if I've gotten information wrong slightly. Ok here we go. Matthew: Faithful Spy BST: 148 > 162 (12 Stat Increase) SPD +5, DEF +5, RES +2 (OLD) : HP: 41 / ATK: 25 / SPD: 34 / DEF: 30 / RES: 18 (NEW) : HP: 41 / ATK: 25 / SPD: 39 / DEF: 35 / RES: 20 Explaination: Matt's ATK cannot be salvaged. You could dump all 12 points into ATK and it would still just make him Sothe with a bit more bulk. His weapon circumvents his ATK issue to begin with. His problem is that he's not fast enough for the little damage he's putting out on a regular basis. 34 Speed has long since been obsolete and his statline has been powercreeped time and time again and even is comparable if not inferior to Saizo's, another launch unit. Pumping into his SPD to give him 39 (41 with a boon) would completely shift him into another tier and allow him to better run sweep skills, double faster opponents and reach 43-46 SPD naturally at max merge, far more fitting for his spread. We could put the other 5 points into ATK but that would just make his attack go from horrible to average, anything he wasn't already killing with Spy's Dagger he's not going to kill now. Instead adding the +5 to his DEF bulks him up to better soak up hits with his dagger's effect and the +2 to RES serves to take his poor RES stat out of the gutter and into (below average territory). Again we could give these points to ATK but I really don't see the point. Giving him +6 SPD and ATK for 31/40 offenses is not the way to go and I don't think it would serve him as well as increasing speed and bulk. Serra: Outspoken Cleric BST: 148 > 157 (9 Stat Increase) HP +1, ATK +2, SPD+3, DEF +1, RES +2 (OLD) : HP: 33 / ATK: 30 / SPD: 31 / DEF: 21 / RES: 33 (NEW) : HP: 34 / ATK: 32 / SPD: 34 / DEF: 22 / RES: 35 Explanation: Serra has never really specialized in any specific stat. She's always had good RES but everything else has always been pretty average in my experience with her. Paper DEF and HP as you'd expect and workable ATK/SPD in most situations. That was the case in launch but at this point in the game it's middling bordering on below average. She was a jack of all trades but now she's more like a 10 or 9 card if you get what I mean. Due to her lack of specialization giving her CYL offensive stats wouldn't make sense. A general increase across the board would be best for her. A boost to 32/34 offenses makes her respectable and serviceable with a solid 35 ATK or 37 SPD with a boon, the RES increase gives her more Ploying potential and the HP/DEF +1 while it seems minimal gives her much needed bulk and you'll find a lot of cases where the enemy will have just enough to oneshot her, in that regard this is huge. So let's hear what you guys think about this, how would you distribute those additional stats to Gen 1 units, and why? Do you even think it's worth it? @Kaden You give very detailed posts, I'd like to pick your brain here.
  3. Exactly what it says in the title. Not counting Team Spotpass [Gangrel, Aversa, etc. and the Einherjar], Robin or Chrom, who overall out of Generation 1 is your favorite? And not for baby making- I want pure, statistical and personality-wise reasons to use each character. Personally I can't possibly see any future where I don't use Kellam. I don't care if he's a high- or low- tier unit, he's quite a tank and makes a pretty strong General, too. Oh, and you're not allowed to pick Flavia and Basilio only for "joining late with high stats." That's cheating.
  4. So with Gold and Silver comming, I made a trip down the memory lane. Up until gen 4, all the cartridges where colored. It wasn't the first time we had colored cartridges (I have a yellow GB onkey Kong cratridges), but it wasn't really common either. It helped the game stands out around the crow, it made them feels specials. RBY was already cool (even TCG was colored Black? And the Pinball Cartridge was amazing as well, with the vibrating effect that made it far bigger.), but Gold, Silver, and especially Crystal (thos dazzling, shining colours !) were really great looking. RSE where also very cool. Then Gen 4 arrived, and the cartridge became smaller. They still looked different (black instead of grey), but it wasn't the same thing. And now, starting with Gen 6, they don't have anything special at all anymore. This have nothing to do with the games quality, obviously (this could actually be quite the opposite, sinne Gen 4 and 5 gave us some of the best Pokémon games, and Gen 6 and 7 are quite cool as well.), and we now have things like cool Steelbooks or Consoles for the collectionners, which could be considered better deals. (the HGSS Podometer was also amazng). But this was part of what made Pokémon unique, so I was a little sad to see it disappear.
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