FE4 Noobs unite...

[Seph]

Fin leaves for a large part of the first generation, so its not like he's getting anywhere close to a huge level lead.

He's in nearly all of Prologue, in all of Chapter 1, 2, 3, that gives you 4 chapters. We know how huge FE4 chapters are. That's a huge lead. You can easily promote Fin and maybe even max him. He's not in the last 2 chapters, but he's in 4/6 of the first generation, which means he's in 2/3 of the first generation. Yes, he will have a huge level lead.

Remember, he starts at Level 1. Johan has Ambush/Hero Axe, which is often enough to one round thanks to great strength.

Nearly every character in your game can one round anyway, so that isn't anything special. And also, I seriously doubt it's enough to one round. Enemies in FE4 are known to have huge amounts of HP. Let's look at the enemies at the beginning of the Epilogue. Everything other than the troubadours have over 60 HP.

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=johan&game=4

Johan has an average of 26 strength, while the Hero Axe has 16 might.. giving him 42 might. Even though he attacks twice, it's not enough to kill some of the enemies there. And remember, Johan has 14 skill on average. Let's find his hit with the Hero Axe's 70 accuracy.

Accuracy = (Skill x 2) + weapon Accuracy + Leadership bonus + Charisma bonus + Lover bonus + Weapon triangle bonus

I'll ignore Leadership bonus since he will not be next to Celice very much, Charisma bonus, Lover bonus and weapon triangle bonus.

That leaves (skill x 2) + accuracy, which is 28 + 70 = 98 hit.. that's awful. Johan will be missing a lot. Even with the skill ring, he only has 108 hit. Many of the enemies in the game have about 20-30 evade.. Johan isn't so good now is he.

And don't forget, this game uses 1 RN, so the chance of missing is higher.

Fin has competition for the Hero Lance (Fee, Oifaye), so its not like he's guaranteed it.

Oifaye doesn't matter, but I agree about Fee. However, Johan has competition for the Hero Axe too, in the form of Leaf. He may not get a Hero Sword or Hero Lance since other characters may need it, so he will want the Hero Axe.

Johan also has superior durability.

Fin has Pursuit and Prayer. Pursuit is probably the most useful skill in the game, and Johan doesn't have it. Johan always attacks twice while Fin can actually attack four times thanks to Hero weapons.

And also, I am not too sure about this. Johan at level 30 has 48 avoid, and subtracting the double of Hero Axe's weight (I think this is correct from my experiments) you get exactly 24 avoid.. not good. He'll be getting hit a lot.

Combine this with Fin's extremely early availability, his use for Leaf and Nanna in Chapter 7, he's like a strong Jeigan.

Fin > Johan.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Julius

[Mekkah]

Fin leaves for a large part of the first generation, so its not like he's getting anywhere close to a huge level lead. Remember, he starts at Level 1. Johan has Ambush/Hero Axe, which is often enough to one round thanks to great strength. Fin has competition for the Hero Lance (Fee, Oifaye), so its not like he's guaranteed it. Johan also has superior durability. I say Johan wins.

He's there for the vast majority of it, and thanks to his mountedness, he can actually take part in the majority of Ch2. With field EXP alone, he could reach Johan's base level, but then he also has four arenas and the possibility of buying/borrowing Elite Ring.

Unfortunately, "great Strength" is not enough to one-round in a game where everything has wtfmassive HP. The only things he can one-round are magic units, maybe Archers/Ballistae or something, but against those Ambush doesn't work. There's Swordfighters maybe, but he has WTD against those.

Yes, he's not guaranteed to have it, but he has enough moneys to borrow it for easy arena matches, and the other two will probably rather use swords anyway (they're lighter, and Fee's main task is taking out Mountain Thieves anyway).

How does he have superior durability? Fin wins like every stat given his level lead, and Fin has Prayer and the possibility of using the Slim Lance.

EDIT:

For actually on-topic stuff, you can only get one out of Aura and Resire. You can only trigger one of the convos, and it depends on which of the castles you conquer first.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Mekkah

[Fia]

I’m going to base this from my experiences, so you may ignore it if you want.

Johan sucks. Finn is better.

At least Finn has some use in the second generation, mainly to defend Nanna and Leaf. He comes in a good levels lead, making him very capable on handling himself and possibly the others. He should be a solid fighting unit already by now, unless you decide to be an oddball and refuse to use him in the first generation.

What about Johan? Unfortunately for him, most of enemies in Chapter 7 are either magic users or Sword Fighters. Not good, it’s hard to use him in that chapter. What about in the later chapters? Sure, you can use him…just remember, most of enemies in second generation are magic users, soo…

Johan also has problem with his skill. Seriously, his skill stinks. >_<

20% Growth for SKL? And he locked to Axe, in the game where Axe is a total piece of crap and the AI loves to give you sword users or magic users as your enemies? LOL.

Instead of hitting something, he probably will get some hits himself. Before anyone pointed out that he gets a great SPD growth…yes, I do aware of that. But he only has 22 as his speed cap, and Axe is TEH HEAVIEST weapon in the game…How very unfortunate for him then…

All in all, I think both Finn and Johan are forgettable units in second generation. But if I ever need to choose one, I won’t hesitate to pick Finn over Johan.

[TheEnd]

Two things going against Lachesis x Finn for beginners:

1) Delmund won't inherit any weapons (unless Finn happens to kill an enemy with a sword and pass it down);

2) Regardless, Finn will lose all his equipment when he returns in 2nd gen. It may be annoying to deal with the Alster attacks with an iron lance and two level 1 characters.

I'm not commenting on this Johan x Finn thing, since it's obvious, blatant trolling. Johan is shit, I always recruit Johalva (who isn't stellar, but hey).

Agreeing on Resire. Far better than Aura.

Edited December 14, 2008 by TheEnd

[Mekkah]

IOS isn't really trolling, he just has some different views is all.

[Fia]

Two things going against Lachesis x Finn for beginners:

1) Delmund won't inherit any weapons (unless Finn happens to kill an enemy with a sword and pass it down);

2) Regardless, Finn will lose all his equipment when he returns in 2nd gen. It may be annoying to deal with the Alster attacks with an iron lance and two level 1 characters.

Actually, my first Lachesis pairing is Finn.

1) Shaggal and Jacoban(?), the guy with Thunder sword. I personally think that SilverXL is good for Delmud.

2) Alster's army is weak. They can easily taken care with Finn even with Iron Lance.

I'm not commenting on this Johan x Finn thing, since it's obvious, blatant trolling. Johan is shit, I always recruit Johalva (who isn't stellar, but hey).

You make it sounds so wrong....

Though I agree that Jolavier being better. At least you get another bow user, which is useful since another common type of enemies in second generation is Dragon Knight/Rider.

[Agro]

1) Shaggal and Jacoban(?), the guy with Thunder sword. I personally think that SilverXL is good for Delmud.

That means foregoing both or either of these weapons for two chapters in the first generation (Fin can't let go of them for a second, else he'll never get them back). Even units like Beowulf can put the SilverXL to better use.

For those who simply ditch Beowulf; do you really find him that bad? I use him every playthrough, mainly because he can get to A-rank swords, unlike Alec, who is stuck with his shitty B-rank...

Edited December 14, 2008 by Wander

[TheEnd]

Actually, my first Lachesis pairing is Finn.

1) Shaggal and Jacoban(?), the guy with Thunder sword. I personally think that SilverXL is good for Delmud.

2) Alster's army is weak. They can easily taken care with Finn even with Iron Lance.

It was my first one as well (... well, the first one when learned of the love system, that is). I know that you can get silver claymore/thunder sword in chapter 3 and pass it down - that's the motive why my Skasaher starts with a silver claymore when I do Lex x Lakche - but it's still a limitation. Also, the fact Finn loses his lances but can't pass them down is so stupid, I can't just ignore it.

2) You can make the easy easier.

IOS isn't really trolling, he just has some different views is all.

You make it sounds so wrong....

Do you guys prefer the "devil's advocate" term, then? Because really, you'd be surprised if you thought about how close those two figures are.

Edited December 14, 2008 by TheEnd

[Fia]

That means foregoing both or either of these weapons for two chapters in the first generation (Fin can't let go of them for a second, else he'll never get them back). Even units like Beowulf can put the SilverXL to better use.

For those who simply ditch Beowulf; do you really find him that bad? I use him every playthrough, mainly because he can get to A-rank swords, unlike Alec, who is stuck with his shitty B-rank...

Er, it's not like that SilverXL is needed in first generation, so why not? ^^;

Beowulf wasn't not a failure, he is better than Noish and Alec. But I simply found there are even better units to use instead of him. So why bother?

It was my first one as well (... well, the first one when learned of the love system, that is). I know that you can get silver claymore/thunder sword in chapter 3 and pass it down - that's the motive why my Skasaher starts with a silver claymore when I do Lex x Lakche - but it's still a limitation. Also, the fact Finn loses his lances but can't pass them down is so stupid, I can't just ignore it.

2) You can make the easy easier.

Skasha is just fine with his starting weapon, IronXL. Delmud needs the SilverXL more since he sucks compared to Skasha. >_<

2) No fun.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Tiltyu

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

Okay, so from what I'm hearing here, I should switcharoo these pairings;

Ayra X Holyn, I still will keep them...

Lachesis X Lex, I like Nanna with some DEF.

Brigid X Dew, going strong.

Aideen X Jamka, If there was a shirt that said "I<3KB", I'd buy it. KB is Killer Bow.

Tiltyu X Azel, Magicky people. Heh.

Sylvia X Claude, is it really a great thing to do? I guess...

Levin X Fury, people are saying it's a great idea.

Oh, and I'm going for the one whose army does NOT steal EXP. Hopefully it's the axe knight. I like mounted units... Sorry, I can't differenciate Johan and Johalvier... :(

[TheEnd]

Okay, so from what I'm hearing here, I should switcharoo these pairings;

Ayra X Holyn, I still will keep them...

Lachesis X Lex, I like Nanna with some DEF.

Brigid X Dew, going strong.

Aideen X Jamka, If there was a shirt that said "I<3KB", I'd buy it. KB is Killer Bow.

Tiltyu X Azel, Magicky people. Heh.

Sylvia X Claude, is it really a great thing to do? I guess...

Levin X Fury, people are saying it's a great idea.

Oh, and I'm going for the one whose army does NOT steal EXP. Hopefully it's the axe knight. I like mounted units... Sorry, I can't differenciate Johan and Johalvier... :(

Johan is the mounted one.

Either way, make sure that you conquer the axe knight castle instead of the axe fighter one; that way, Celice will give Yuria Resire, which, as already discussed, is leagues better than Aura (which you get by taking the axe fighter castle first).

(Sure, the castle you'll want to conquer will become allied once you recruit Johan. However, you can still let the third enemy army take it, and then retake it yourself.)

Edited December 14, 2008 by TheEnd

[Fia]

Oh, and I'm going for the one whose army does NOT steal EXP. Hopefully it's the axe knight. I like mounted units... Sorry, I can't differenciate Johan and Johalvier... :(

Oh, you based this from Mekkah's post right?

Johan is the Axe Knight, while Jolavier is the Axe Fighter. And don't worry about Johan's army. They are weak, much like their leader. -_-

So I don't think they will steal EXP.

I just remembered something, I usually ended up recruiting Jolavier because Johan pulled out a suicide act. He attacked Skasha. :o

Bye - bye Johan.

[Don Draper]

I'm not commenting on this Johan x Finn thing, since it's obvious, blatant trolling. Johan is shit, I always recruit Johalva (who isn't stellar, but hey).

...What?

Anyways, I'm not going to bother with Johan>Fin anymore, seeing as I'm outnumbered 5 to 1, and I don't really care enough about Johan to argue with that many people. Johan's really underrated, lets just leave it at that.

[Mekkah]

He's closer to Fin than I thought at first, I'll admit that. But neither are good.

[Swordsalmon]

Two things going against Lachesis x Finn for beginners:

1) Delmund won't inherit any weapons (unless Finn happens to kill an enemy with a sword and pass it down);

2) Regardless, Finn will lose all his equipment when he returns in 2nd gen. It may be annoying to deal with the Alster attacks with an iron lance and two level 1 characters.

I'm not commenting on this Johan x Finn thing, since it's obvious, blatant trolling. Johan is shit, I always recruit Johalva (who isn't stellar, but hey).

Agreeing on Resire. Far better than Aura.

Delmud does inherit Fin's money though, so he can buy a good weapon after seizing Ganeshire. Or Fin can just kill Shagall in Chapter 3. :o

That's actually not much of a disadvantage. Any items are passed down to Delmud, and Fin can sell the Hero Lance to Fury until Chapter 8, which benefits Phee. As a level 20 promoted Fin w/ Iron Lance weakens the Alster Armours to about 5 HP, Leaf can kill them and gain massive EXP. So Fin is doing pretty well. ^_^

Character-wise, Johan is the better brother due to a mount. Rank-wise, I'd say Johalva is superior, as Celice doesn't have to waste a huge while seizing Sophara, and he gives Yuria Resire. ^_^

Okay, so from what I'm hearing here, I should switcharoo these pairings;

Ayra X Holyn, I still will keep them...

Lachesis X Lex, I like Nanna with some DEF.

Brigid X Dew, going strong.

Aideen X Jamka, If there was a shirt that said "I<3KB", I'd buy it. KB is Killer Bow.

Tiltyu X Azel, Magicky people. Heh.

Sylvia X Claude, is it really a great thing to do? I guess...

Levin X Fury, people are saying it's a great idea.

Oh, and I'm going for the one whose army does NOT steal EXP. Hopefully it's the axe knight. I like mounted units... Sorry, I can't differenciate Johan and Johalvier... :(

AyraxHolyn isn't great. It's fast, but Lunar Sword negates Meteor Sword, and the kids only have major Odo blood. Jamuka, Noishe, or Lex make superior fathers.

EDIT: Well if Mideel is dead and Lex is being paired with Lachesis, nevermind. ^_^

Good enough pairings for the next three.

For the last three, I recommend the following pairings.

TiltyuxLevin

SylviaxAzel

FuryxClaude

That way, Arthur can use Holsety immediatly from Chapter 6, which makes killing the Loptus Mages in Chapter 7 considerably easier. Corpul can have decent offense after promotion with Volcanon and Pursuit with Azel as a father. With Claude, Phee can use Recover after promotion, and Sety gets the Valkyrie Staff and is still amazing.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Swordsalmon

[Mekkah]

It's fast, but Lunar Sword negates Meteor Sword

They may not be able to activate at the same time, but they don't negate each other. This has the beneficial effect of having a high chance of activating either.

Like, early on, they may have like 15% of either. So the chance of either activating on one shot is 27.75% already, while without Lunar Sword it would have been just 15% of Meteor Sword. Then they always attack twice, and it becomes roughly 48% chance overall of one activating.

[Chalis]

Okay, so from what I'm hearing here, I should switcharoo these pairings;

Ayra X Holyn, I still will keep them...

Lachesis X Lex, I like Nanna with some DEF.

Brigid X Dew, going strong.

Aideen X Jamka, If there was a shirt that said "I<3KB", I'd buy it. KB is Killer Bow.

Tiltyu X Azel, Magicky people. Heh.

Sylvia X Claude, is it really a great thing to do? I guess...

Levin X Fury, people are saying it's a great idea.

Oh, and I'm going for the one whose army does NOT steal EXP. Hopefully it's the axe knight. I like mounted units... Sorry, I can't differentiate Johan and Johalvier... :(

You'll like what you see, trust me.

If you bring back Midir, he can also use the Killer Bow. This is because of my bias of Pursuit > Continue.

Honestly, ditch them both. They lag behind your own army very quickly and I've never once found a use for them. Hero Axe is better suited for Leaf or even... ugh, Hannibal.

TiltyuxLevin

SylviaxAzel

FuryxClaude

It sounds tempting, but don't do this if it's your first play-through. LevinXFury is an unstoppable godly beast pairing that you will have a hard time NOT making because the pairing is so easy to make. Pursuit > Continue, IMO and Arthur already has Anger, he doesn't need critical for more overkill. Oh, and Canon pairings give you more stat up conversations. LevinXTiltyu will only give something stat for Teeny late game which is pretty useless by then, while LevinXFury gives stat up conversations to both children fairly earlier than most.

Don't bother with Sylvia, give her Claude if you want, but really. Corple comes in late game, you don't want to bother with him after all that time, and Dancers aren't for fighting (YES, I AM HYPOCRITICAL.) so it REALLY isn't necessary. Like I said before, Pursuit > Continue; AzelXTiltyu is a better option.

ClaudeXFury...

It's a hard pairing to make turn wise because most likely LevinXFury will happen before you get a chance at this. Fury can't pass down Libro because she herself can't use it and Phee starts out a Pegasus Knight. Claude? Eh, it's hard to raep Sety, he'll be your number one healer, but he can be so much more useful in LevinXFury. That said, not too bad, kind of useful (kind of). It's not like you need another healer, this game throws you how many of them already?

[Seph]

TiltyuxLevin

SylviaxAzel

FuryxClaude

I agree with Azel.

For beginners, those pairings aren't desirable (even though they are good for someone who's playing a second time). They aren't as easy to make as Levin!Fury and so on.

Levin!Fury is like god incarnate, while Sylvia's children are usually garbage. You could even not pair Sylvia at all so that you get Laylea and her Charisma skill. Claude!Fury again isn't good for beginners and I suggest LevinxFury.

Azel!Tiltyu is great for beginners, so is Levin!Fury and Sylvia!Claude.

Okay, so from what I'm hearing here, I should switcharoo these pairings;

Ayra X Holyn, I still will keep them...

Lachesis X Lex, I like Nanna with some DEF.

Brigid X Dew, going strong.

Aideen X Jamka, If there was a shirt that said "I<3KB", I'd buy it. KB is Killer Bow.

Tiltyu X Azel, Magicky people. Heh.

Sylvia X Claude, is it really a great thing to do? I guess...

Levin X Fury, people are saying it's a great idea.

Use the Valkyrie staff to bring back Midir and pair him with Aideen. It's the best pairing for her.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Julius

[Chalis]

HolynAira is alright, you can't go wrong with Aira, though.

JamukaEdin is good... Pursuit is better, bring back Midir!!

LexLachesis defensive, offensive, charisma, survival, amazing!

BridgetDeu can't go wrong with thief for thief, bargain for Faval is really good too! Irchival!

AzelTiltyu easy to make and can't go wrong!

ClaudeSylvia Valkyrie because you're a beginner; pretty okay and that's still good because Syvie's kids suck no matter what!

LevinFury = God.

This is what's going on right now.

MidirXEdin is a better pairing... Lester would rather have Pursuit. =X

Oh, and BridgetXDeu gives you a better access to money, if no one's told you yet.

Bridget + Arena + Give Deu + Give to whomever = Yes, please~

[Fia]

Corpul can have decent offense after promotion with Volcanon and Pursuit with Azel as a father.

Courple can't use Bolganon even after promotion, only ElFire. =/

[Mekkah]

Oh come on guys, just because a pairing isn't canon doesn't mean it's hard to make. All you have to do is send out Fury to kill those Mountain Thieves in Ch4, while taking care of the main field army with the rest, and then you get to whore everyone together for like 40 turns. Then in Ch5, you can do the same after taking out the few Mountain Thieves and the mounted squads.

Fury and Claude, for example, have 100+3, or 100+8 when they're glued together. That's just 50 turns of standing next to each other, and they also gain if they're not. Levin and Tiltyu are even faster, with 120+3.

Bridget + Arena + Give Deu + Give to whomever = Yes, please~

Do that with Ayra instead, Brigid likes her money for Ichieval.

Any arguments that Levin!Sety is unstoppable doesn't work to advocate Levin/Fury over Levin/Tiltyu. Levin!Arthur is unstoppable as well.

Arthur having Wrath hardly makes him less godly with Holsety. If he has it activated on any other pairing, he's in mortal danger.

[Fia]

Oh come on guys, just because a pairing isn't canon doesn't mean it's hard to make. All you have to do is send out Fury to kill those Mountain Thieves in Ch4, while taking care of the main field army with the rest, and then you get to whore everyone together for like 40 turns. Then in Ch5, you can do the same after taking out the few Mountain Thieves and the mounted squads.

Fury and Claude, for example, have 100+3, or 100+8 when they're glued together. That's just 50 turns of standing next to each other, and they also gain if they're not. Levin and Tiltyu are even faster, with 120+3.

Agree. But in the other hand, it's his first playthrough in FE4, thus why I believe he should go with the canon pairings for its less complicated and also for safety reason. Just to let him adapt better with the lover/generation system.

[Chalis]

Oh come on guys, just because a pairing isn't canon doesn't mean it's hard to make. All you have to do is send out Fury to kill those Mountain Thieves in Ch4, while taking care of the main field army with the rest, and then you get to whore everyone together for like 40 turns. Then in Ch5, you can do the same after taking out the few Mountain Thieves and the mounted squads.

Fury and Claude, for example, have 100+3, or 100+8 when they're glued together. That's just 50 turns of standing next to each other, and they also gain if they're not. Levin and Tiltyu are even faster, with 120+3.

Any arguments that Levin!Sety is unstoppable doesn't work to advocate Levin/Fury over Levin/Tiltyu. Levin!Arthur is unstoppable as well.

Arthur having Wrath hardly makes him less godly with Holsety. If he has it activated on any other pairing, he's in mortal danger.

Its his first play through. Holsety!Sety > Holsety!Arthur in terms of which is the more powerful BECAUSE of Pursuit. Sure, Holsety might 1OHKO pretty much any enemy, but it is expensive for Arthur in the beginning, and the earliest time for promotion (assuming you're not abusing him) is mid chapter 8. LevinXFury is the fastest, very straight forward, Critical + Continue + Pursuit to God!Sety.

So let Sety kill everyone and their mother riding on dragons, he's up for it.

Do that with Ayra instead, Brigid likes her money for Ichieval.

Lakche is getting enough money as it is in G2, it is Faval who will want Bargain the most for Irchival.

[Fia]

Its his first play through. Holsety!Sety > Holsety!Arthur in terms of which is the more powerful BECAUSE of Pursuit.

That's not the only reason why Sety is the better holder for Holsety you know. You forgot that Sety gets one of the best classes in the game, Sage. Sage's stat caps are so ridiculously high, that's not even funny. >_<

Compared to Arthur's crappy caps as Mage Knight.... Sety is obviously the winner here, unless you are biased to mounted units...

And beating those Dark Mage with Holsety is considered as overkill. =E

[Mekkah]

Its his first play through. Holsety!Sety > Holsety!Arthur in terms of which is the more powerful BECAUSE of Pursuit. Sure, Holsety might 1OHKO pretty much any enemy, but it is expensive for Arthur in the beginning, and the earliest time for promotion (assuming you're not abusing him) is mid chapter 8.

Arthur doesn't always have to use Holsety to rule. In the arena, for instance, he rapes without it. Which is also where he can get plenty of money for it...he comes with 50 free uses, and then he should be able to get 6k from the two villages he starts near, and then 17.5k per arena. And he can become lovers with Fee easily, and Fee is one of the richest bitches on the continent since she can use the Thief Sword to grab 5000G off every Mountain Thief before killing them.

You mention that it costs a lot in the beginning, but you forget to mention that it also _exists_ in the beginning. Obviously being able to use the best weapon in the game for Ch6, Ch7 and pretty much all of Ch8 >>>>> not being able to. He makes the Freege family all the easier to dispatch (you encounter Thor Hammer twice plus another incarnation of Blume before Sety reveals himself, plus Ishtor's fugly Continue + Tron/Bolting). He's also quite reliable to come out on top against multiple Dark Mages at once, something only Julia can boast (not even Oifaye, Johan or Celice can do that), he can actually take on the ___ Mage triplet (which you encounter twice), etc...

I'd say that would be fairly handy for a first timer.

EDIT: For Sety being more powerful with Holsety than Arthur with Holsety, yes. But Sety is also more powerful than Arthur when neither have Holsety. Arthur, however, improves a lot more from Holsety than Sety does. Arthur doesn't one-round everything on the planet already and Arthur has fairly shaky durability to start with (for example Azel!Tiltyu), while when Sety comes he pretty much kicks butt even if he has Noish as his dad (thanks to the skillset), but he does the same without effort with Claude as his dad.

Holsety Arthur + Claude/Noish!Sety is more useful than Azel!Arthur + Levin!Sety.

Edited December 15, 2008 by Mekkah