OMG it's a tier list

[Zkirsche]

First of all, I don't think Reyson should be in the top spot. He is the only heron that has to worry about his gauge, and until it fills up he is vigoring the least amount of units of the heron siblings. Rafiel can always vigor four units at a time, and only has to worry about his movement. He lacks availibility, which can't be fixed, but the boots/celerity can help his movement problems. I think the herons should be closer together in general, but I don't think any of them deserve to be in top. I mostly say that because the herons have to be defended and they aren't clutch like say, Volug. This is a huge can of worms, though.

This is true. I mean, the only unit that really improves is Shinon for getting more player phase action, the others can afford to miss out of the extra player phase thanks to wtf durability. I question Reyson saving enougth turns to be > Ike and Haar, really.

My other problems are in upper mid, where I think Nephenee should move below Micaiah and Mordecai could move above Oscar. Micaiah has sacrifice/thani/staves, all of which make her an extremely valuable unit to the Suck Brigade. Sacrifice allows Laura to go heal someone else, gives Micaiah exp, and allows Laura to heal her for even more exp, while obtaining staves upon promotion is always helpful. Thani allows Micaiah to do something that no other SB member can do: one hit armors/cavaliers (which are many of the part 1 bosses).

Nephenee's good, but I can sort of agree with this. Micaiah's healing is incredibly useful in part 3, a time when it is practically vital and before that she thani bombs all the knights/cavaliers whilst either using wrath/resolve + sacrifice combination to become a Shinon on the player phase (Having a consistent ORKO'er far outweighs the loss of needing to be protected on the enemy phase, which is lessened with shade). Nephenee... has Ike/Haar/Mia/Gatrie/Titania to compete with an later on has Janaff/Ulki too. Then come in the royals... and then combat becomes vastly unimportant or needed. Her performance isn't even that great in part 2, so I can agree with Micaiah > Nephenee.

As for Mordecai vs. Oscar... Mordecai has insane HP/defense against Oscar's mount, weapons, and earth affinity. Mordecai has gauge issues to worry about, but Olivi grasses are readily available, while the resources to fix Oscar's offense aren't. Not only that, there are many chapters where having a horse is a disadvantage. As for his supports, he's most likely to get Titania because of their similar movement ranges, but I don't think that support gives him attack, which is what he really needs.

A Boyd support gives Oscar what he needs. Take 3-4 as an example:

Level 15/0 Oscar with a forged steel lance, 'B' Boyd: 39.5 HP, 37 Atk, 23 AS, 96 Avo, 18 Def, 14 Res, 27 Crit

Level 17 Mordy with 'A' Strike: 58 HP, 38 Atk, 18 AS, 67 Avo, 32-34 Def, 8 Res, 9 Crit

Offence + outgoing supports vs defence. Oscar's offensive lead is pretty big IMO as 1 Atk is minor, but doubling more enemies with higher crit chances isn't. And when you consider that Mordy is going to be grassing every player phase or so, and his gauge limits his enemy phase. Well, I'd say Oscar is thrashing him, surprisingly. As for defence, Oscar isn't exactly terribad himself, with canto, possible 1-2 range and his support active. And I'd say this can only improve with his promotion giving him massive bonuses and him getting his 'A' with Boyd to increase his offence futher.

I feel that Shinon could possibly be a bit higher due to his great bases along with the fact that he can attack and not kill enemies (allowing units like Soren, Mia, and Boyd to get easier kills). He also has nice durabillity and provoke, along with the fact that he is a sniper so enemies are more likely to attack him and he won't die and prevent weaker units from getting killed. The only stat he seems to suffer in is str and that is fixed with the Silencer which also helps him fix any 3 range attack problems. He also has good magic so he makes a good imbue candidate.

I kinda feel that Shinon is fine where he is. I can sorta see him above Nolan, but not above the hawks.

You know all those Paladin reinforcements that appear from the northeast?

Remember the horseslayer for extra pwn that Mia can't use.

Gatrie can just go to the left.

Flexibility >> Inflexibility.

[Interceptor]

Micaiah vs. Nephenee is probably one of the most annoying comparisons ever. Not only is it a match-up with healer utility (uggghhh) but it's cross-army. I hate it too much to care what happens.

I kinda feel that Shinon is fine where he is. I can sorta see him above Nolan, but not above the hawks.

Who are you, and what did you do with kirsche?

[Florete]

Except the problem with Gatrie in 3-P is the only way to get him to take on 4 enemies at once is if he's the only unit moving.

Not quite. As I said later:

I don't recall his starting position in 3-P, but I remember it being close to or at the front, so as long as he's always charging ahead, he'll always be in range of enemies.

I doubt we're moving so fast that Gatrie's slight move deficit won't keep him up with the team.

And my example didn't have to be just one turn. It was based around one turn, but Gatrie can pretty much go the entire chapter without getting healed, whereas Mia is very likely to need a few.

Well, I for one don't really see the point in sending Mia and Ike northeast, since there is plenty of work in the southern areas and across the river to perform.

It was mostly an example of what Gatrie can do vs. what Mia can do. I can send Gatrie anywhere and he'll perform fine, I need to be more specific with Mia.

We have Shinon and Rolf. Either one of them can easily be positioned to force a steel sword equip. And it's possible you could just use a unit with 1-2 range since the general might prefer his other weapon then since it's more accurate. Never tried a non-bow user for that task, though, so I can't be sure. Draw the boss, then draw the general and block the boss and you have a storm sword. Also all the other items in that area too.

So that means we're harming some efficiency for this weapon. Do I have to explain why this is problematic? And I don't mean sending the boss away, that's easy, I mean purposely positioning Shinon to make sure he gets attacked from one range, and with the Steel Sword specifically (Storm Sword still has 1 range and has +3 MT).

That's fine and all, but we have Titania and Oscar and Ranulf charging ahead taking care of all the lower enemies, plus the laguz that start there. He doesn't get much done. Haar helps out with clearing out one sage to allow people to get up the left mountain, and all your 7 move units can now access the mountain and push forward even more. Gatrie won't catch up until most of the enemies are gone.

It's not so bad that Gatrie will end up behind everyone so fast. Those 2 NPC Laguz at the left attract a few enemies on the first turn, and you have to range them to get by, and Gatrie can easily help with this. This hinders your mounts as well, and especially hinders Ranulf. Basically, there isn't much charging to be doing on the left.

I don't see the issue with the support. Ike moves, Mia goes with him. They have 7 move each and Ike likes his avo almost as much as Mia does. Especially when there are sages around. I don't really see why I'd send Mia elsewhere. The only question is who goes first on player phase. Probably Ike, so that's an advantage for Ike, not Gatrie. Mia is tied to Ike, except it's not really a big issue. Ike isn't held back by her at all, since wherever he goes she follows.

And in the event Mia goes first? Or problematic enemy positioning requires them to be 4+ spaces apart? Just because they are in the same general area does not mean she'll always be in range for the support boost.

Ike wants to not be slowed down. To give Ike his avo, he needs a unit that clears space almost as well as he does, otherwise he has to hang back to prevent his support partner from getting attacked too much otherwise it means more work for everyone on player phase.

That's not even true. What if he supports Shinon or Rolf? They'll generally jump in to attack an enemy first and then, and then Ike can come in and finish it off. Since he's in front, he'll likely take the attacks and not them, as long as these two aren't the only people on the map of course. And Boyd? He gives the same bonuses as Mia, and is about as durable as her as well. Mia may be the overall best choice, but the gap is not large.

The other thing is since Mia clears space rather well and leaves things almost anyone can kill with whatever weapon they want, I can slowplay Ike more easily since he isn't doing everything. They tend not to attack Ike as much, so Ike easily reaches ~80 exp without me having to stop Ike from doing stuff. This matters more from 3-7 on, of course, since he's not likely to cap str and skl until level 16 or 17 so he needs to actually be level 16 or 17, but it's still there. Without Mia, Ike needs to do more each turn, which means he generally will level each chapter and a bit more when he'd like to get bexp for spd.

It's the difference between 20/1 Ike having 30 spd and doubling everything but sm (and falcos until he gets 31 speed in 2 or 3 levels) in 4-1 and having a good shot at 32 speed for 4-4 and doubling non-warriors/sms, or him having 28 speed and failing to double 25 speed things and not really having much of a prayer at doubling halbs or snipers in 4-4. Even many generals have 25 or 26 speed and so there may be times in the early stages of 4-4 where he's not doubling them.

That's giving Mia way too much credit. Ike and Mia are not the only ones in their area, ever. I slowplay Ike all the time, and I've only supported him with Mia once (because all the times before I didn't know of the benefits). It's no harder if he's supporting someone else, it just means different characters are involved, and since so few characters consistently one round, it's still easy.

The gap may not be "huge", but it's bigger than any gap between Mia and Gatrie the other direction aside from 3-1 and maybe 3-2.

It's also the gap that matters the least, for various reasons you and I both are aware of.

Adept means we have Mia Lite in Nephenee, and Neph could support Ike to get okay but not as good avo I suppose. Still, we reduce the killing power of Ike's support partner by quite a lot. Also Ike's partner no longer doubles swordmasters.

Who said Ike's partner would be Nephenee? And why is not doubling Swordmasters a significant problem?

Actually, now that you bring it up, Nephenee would be another good secondary candidate for Ike support. He trades atk for some more avoid, but the atk doesn't help too often anyway, and Nephenee loves the Earth boost.

You didn't mention cancel, which technically is something else that's left out there. But without comboing Cancel and Vantage, it's player phase only and still not getting a unit to useful proc rates.

Yeah, so do that. You just made Vantage useful yourself. Any unit can combine Cancel and Vantage.

Plus in part 4 we feel the loss of Mia far more than Gatrie.

More like we don't feel it at all, or at least not a lot. Part 4 is when everyone we've used is at their best, so the loss of one unit is barely a scratch on efficiency.

But:

G-E-E-L-E-E-E-E

Next turn:

E-E-G-L-E-E-E-E

E-E-E-L-E-M-E-E

Next turn:

E-E-E-L-E-G-E-E

E-E-E-L-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-M

She's now 7 spaces ahead.

Where is there something like that to affect them? The only place I can think of is 4-4, but enemies swarm you from everywhere, so he's still fighting.

That's another thing. Mia will be stuck to Ike's route. Gatrie can go anywhere. Due to mobility, he's likely best on Ike's route, but considering the possibility his services are needed more elsewhere, we have that option without hurting anyone.

Anyway with all the side to side moving and stuff in the way and her natural +1 move I'd say it matters here. I suppose we have to put celerity somewhere, though, so maybe when it matters Gats can have it. Costs 15 so he can only use another 10, but I'm not sure he cares about any other skill. Also means we can't stick it elsewhere, though. I'd need a cost analysis to know if it hurts more to give him Celerity than Mia getting all her stuff. But you didn't suggest Celerity so I won't bother looking into it myself.

I didn't think of Celerity, but I doubt anyone else would use it as well. No one else has the same move issues as him, and only Haar is as durable, but Haar kinda flies. Well, there's Ike, but we don't want to separate him from Mia, right? If Mia so easily gets all of her stuff, Gatrie gets Celerity easily, and that all but eliminates the move advantage, since Gatrie will have a natural +1 lead now but still worse terrain penalties.

I could see Haar taking it on 3-8. Otherwise, I don't see who else has such a good claim to it.

As for 4-1, he's got three options here. East, South, West. East is the only place he can double. East also means he needs to go south once those things are dead. Sadly there are thickets in the way. I'm assuming you meant 4-1 and not 4-2. Anyway, to avoid the thickets he either attacks things he's got no hope of doubling, or he attacks things he doubles and then gets stuck afterwards.

The Thickets are like a one turn deficit after he's cleared everything. It's not an ending point for him, and I don't know why you keep acting like it is.

[Zkirsche]

Btw, Gatrie does start at the front, but with Mia not far behind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6KvWxAZf9g. 0:30 is the time you should be looking for.

Micaiah vs. Nephenee is probably one of the most annoying comparisons ever. Not only is it a match-up with healer utility (uggghhh) but it's cross-army. I hate it too much to care what happens.

So... anymore opinions on this?

Who are you, and what did you do with kirsche?

Ehhh, I could argue that his ~50 player phases before the hawks show up and the various player phase leads even after they show up thanks to grassing and his endgame win make him better, but availability debates are almost the worst kind of debate in existance, almost as bad as thieving vs healing.

Edited September 14, 2009 by kirsche

[Kupo]

Micaiah vs. Nephenee is probably one of the most annoying comparisons ever. Not only is it a match-up with healer utility (uggghhh) but it's cross-army. I hate it too much to care what happens.

So... anymore opinions on this?

Yes, Micaiah's utility as a Healer in Part 3 and as the DB's only reliable general slayer definitely makes the competition close.

However, Nephenee, with BEXP use, is an awesome unit and will probably get Wishblade (can Haar SS-rank lances? If so, she has competition). Statistically she is probably the best [beorc] unit in the game, and she is a wonderful asset during Part 2 (especially 2-E, when she can javelin very effectively). Equally wonderful during Part 3 where she can rape everything because she's likely being BEXP-ed during the earlier chapters, but she shines a little bit less because the GMs are such a good group.

I vote Nephenee.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Kupo

[_____]

Statistically she is probably the best [beorc] unit in the game, and she is a wonderful asset during Part 2 (especially 2-E, when she can javelin very effectively). Equally wonderful during Part 3 where she can rape everything because she's likely being BEXP-ed during the earlier chapters

No.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Ninji

[Jaybee]

Micaiah vs. Nephenee is probably one of the most annoying comparisons ever. Not only is it a match-up with healer utility (uggghhh) but it's cross-army. I hate it too much to care what happens.

So... anymore opinions on this?

Yes, Micaiah's utility as a Healer in Part 3 and as the DB's only reliable general slayer definitely makes the competition close.

However, Nephenee, with BEXP use, is an awesome unit and will probably get Wishblade (can Haar SS-rank lances? If so, she has competition). Statistically she is probably the best [beorc] unit in the game, and she is a wonderful asset during Part 2 (especially 2-E, when she can javelin very effectively). Equally wonderful during Part 3 where she can rape everything because she's likely being BEXP-ed during the earlier chapters, but she shines a little bit less because the GMs are such a good group.

I vote Nephenee.

What difficulty?

And Haar can S lances and SS axes.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Joshybear25

[Zkirsche]

Yes, Micaiah's utility as a Healer in Part 3 and as the DB's only reliable general slayer definitely makes the competition close.

You forgot best unit with 1-2 range.

However, Nephenee, with BEXP use,

Sadly, there's not a lot of bexp to go around in Hard mode.

An awesome unit and will probably get Wishblade (can Haar SS-rank lances? If so, she has competition).

Haar can't SS rank lances, and even if he could, then she'd still get the wishblade for actually doubling auras with Nasir and spirits without him.

Statistically she is probably the best [beorc] unit in the game

.....

Please tell me your kidding. Mia/Gatrie/Ike all roflstomps her in both offense and defence (provided they get the resources they practically deserve), Shinon wins player phase offence and overall durability, Haar crushes Neph defensive-wise and mobility-wise and Titania is also pretty damn awesome.

This statement isn't even true endgame when trueblades out AS her, Shinon has a 25 Atk bow with 1-3 range and still owns her durably and Ike has Ragnell.

she is a wonderful asset during Part 2 (especially 2-E, when she can javelin very effectively).

Being able to throw a javelin =/= using it effectively. A 20/4 Nephenee with 'C' Brom has 24 Atk and 22 AS with the javelin. This 2RKO's soldiers, 4RKO's warriors, 3RKO's the weaker halbs, 5RKO's the faster halbs, 4RKO's SM's, 2RKO's the slower snipers, 4-5RKO's the fastest snipers, 2RKO's sages, deals lol damage against generals, tinks Ludveck and ORKO's lolpriests. I wouldn't call that using it effectively.

Equally wonderful during Part 3 where she can rape everything because she's likely being BEXP-ed during the earlier chapters

Not really thanks to the fact that there's little BEXP and enemies are better than they were in 2-E.

[Florete]

You forgot best unit with 1-2 range.

More like 2 range, since Micaiah isn't fighting anything up close except some Mages.

Anyway, I think I'll move Micaiah above Nephenee unless someone is seriously opposed to it. Any other thoughts on Mia vs. Gatrie (Don't know where Narga went)?

[Interceptor]

I don't think that Gatrie is better for game completion, but I am really weary of arguing about Mia at this point. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to either of those units.

[Zkirsche]

Any other thoughts on Mia vs. Gatrie (Don't know where Narga went)?

I can't see Gatrie > Mia tbh. Gatrie will stop doubling come 4-E and perhaps slightly beforehand too, and his mobility is worse as well. Overall, I'd give MIa the win. Though perhaps Gatrie > Titania is possible, but I haven't really looked into that.

[Ether]

Any other thoughts on Mia vs. Gatrie (Don't know where Narga went)?

I can't see Gatrie > Mia tbh. Gatrie will stop doubling come 4-E and perhaps slightly beforehand too, and his mobility is worse as well. Overall, I'd give MIa the win. Though perhaps Gatrie > Titania is possible, but I haven't really looked into that.

This is how i feel as well.If Gatrie had more longevity,I wouldn't have tried to get her above him in the first place,but he just loses steam as soon as part 4 rolls around,and Mia doesn't fall behind by a lot even when he's at his best.

As for vs Titania,I'm neutral on it for now.Titania lasts a little longer than Gatrie does,but she as well loses steam later on,while Gatrie has a much more defined offense lead in part 3 before Ti's doubling is reliable.

Also,Ike and Haar over Raisin Brand,his abilities are highly subjective,but most people around here seem to believe Ike/Haar are more useful

Edited September 15, 2009 by Ether

[Blademaster!]

I've been kinda bothered about this for awhile, but why is Nephenee Upper mid? Her low str and def make her fairly un-useable for pretty much all of part 2 in addition to the fact that she is always a liabillity when used durring part 2, and then when she joins in part 3 she is going to need some babying to even start to become an effective unit which she doesn't really reach till around lvl 10 and only becomes a good candidate for Bxp at around lvl 13 and you don't have to much of it to go around in hard mode. And even then, her stats aren't all that great. She loses 3 points in speed with her Initial equipment and needs to be equiped with that weapon to deal decent damage. I don't know how anyone can say that Nephenee can Javalien effectively considering she can deal 0~3 (possibly less) damage with it on chapter 2-F. The only thing she really has going for her is good skl, spd (in her later lvls), res, wind support, and naturally having wrath, but given her low Hp it wont help her out that much. Can someone please explain to me how she can usefull in hard mode? For a unit that has a class meant for the front lines, she certainly isn't a front line unit dying in about 2~3 hits and having lack luster avoid due to her not so great luk? I am open to a change in opinion since I like Nephenee as a unit, but she always dies and proves to be useless when I use her. She is the only Halbierder I really have any trouble using.

Also, about her veing the best beorc unit statistically, I'd say that Volke is the best unit statistically. Being a lower lucked better Def and Res Trueblade with a better critical boost and 1-hit KO skill plus natural stillness and being the best choice for using gamble is pretty broken, but that is just my opinion. It also makes sense that he would be as good as he is considering they force you to bring Sothe to the final chapter. But he serves the purpose of giving Nasir a spot to be used in for the last two parts.

[Kupo]

Er, my mistake. Forgot this was Hard Mode, which I've actually never played through. So I guess she isn't as good since BEXP is so limited... but she is definitely one of the units who can use it best so probably has a right to at least a decent share of it. And she can start BEXP at 12, even 11.

And surely, even with the increased enemy stats she can't be dealing 0-3 damage in 2-E with a javelin. She has a height advantage (I can't find the data IRT what increases one gets from attacking from above) to boot, and as mentioned 22atk with a javelin, which doesn't translate into 0-3.

My mistake considered, maybe she isn't above Micaiah. I still believe she's upper-mid, but I should probably go play HM.

[Interceptor]

I've been kinda bothered about this for awhile, but why is Nephenee Upper mid?

Consider the following things carefully:

• One of the stat-ups that Nephenee needs the most, a Dracoshield, is not in high demand. By the start of 3-3, three of them have already made themselves availibile.
  
• A Steel Lance can be ferried to Nephenee for 2-2 by way of Nealuchi or Leanne.
  
• Nephenee in Part 3 is one of the very few people who can double reliably without a Speedwing. Also, she good innate crit due to being a Halberdier with high SKL.
  
• She can take BEXP'ed levels in base, after getting close to level-up with CEXP. Not all BEXP'ed levels, but some.

What the salient point is here, is that she's a better than decent unit offensively that doesn't take items with high opportunity costs in order to shore up her weaknesses. She's also a fairly ridiculous unit once she's in tier 3, with great SPD and a powerful SKL% mastery.

[nflchamp]

And even then, her stats aren't all that great. She loses 3 points in speed with her Initial equipment and needs to be equiped with that weapon to deal decent damage.

This is your first incorrect statement. She can get a Steel Lance for 2-2. Sure, she loses 4 mt, but she now doubles the majority of the map. I don't know about you, but going from 16, to double 12s is an improvement in my mind. Not to mention 2-range gives her the ability to better position for Leanne in 2-2.

I don't know how anyone can say that Nephenee can Javalien effectively considering she can deal 0~3 (possibly less) damage with it on chapter 2-F.

My Neph w/ a javelin does 5 damage to a halberder before considering possible support with Brom, height advantage mt bonus, and level ups (along w/ the possibility of doubling because of level ups). There's also a short spear available to be shared w/ the likes of Marcia. So I don't know how yours is doing 0-3 unless you're being an idiot and trying to use her unnecessarily against generals.

The only thing she really has going for her is good skl, spd (in her later lvls), res, wind support, and naturally having wrath, but given her low Hp it wont help her out that much. Can someone please explain to me how she can usefull in hard mode? For a unit that has a class meant for the front lines, she certainly isn't a front line unit dying in about 2~3 hits and having lack luster avoid due to her not so great luk? I am open to a change in opinion since I like Nephenee as a unit, but she always dies and proves to be useless when I use her. She is the only Halbierder I really have any trouble using.

In part 3 Neph can get a steel forge and can double a good number of enemies. Her durability is admittedly still shabby. ~34HP/16DEF supportless at level 5. 33+ MT 2HKOs. 34+ MT w/ Brom support. However, that 3-1 Seraph Robe makes her ~41HP/16DEF at level 5. 37+ MT 2HKO, 30-36 MT 3HKO supportless. 38+ MT 2HKO, 31-37 3HKO w/ Brom support. That's pretty good considering almost no enemies have 38+ MT and a few have 30 or less, so mostly 3HKO'd. She'll remain 3-4HKO'd for a while too. Not to mention that HP will cap that much sooner, so whatever BEXP she gets will more likely go to STR and DEF. She also levels faster than pretty much everyone else and she actually has offense to try to get EXP.

Edit: P.S. I think Neph does better with a Robe than with a Shield.

Edited September 16, 2009 by nflchamp

[Interceptor]

I would agree that Neph does better with a Robe than a Draco, but the case for the robe seems more difficult to make. Several people will cap HP almost instantly with a robe, or otherwise use it as effectively for durability as she would.

[nflchamp]

I would agree that Neph does better with a Robe than a Draco, but the case for the robe seems more difficult to make. Several people will cap HP almost instantly with a robe, or otherwise use it as effectively for durability as she would.

Like who? Boyd and Oscar?

[Florete]

I would agree that Neph does better with a Robe than a Draco, but the case for the robe seems more difficult to make. Several people will cap HP almost instantly with a robe, or otherwise use it as effectively for durability as she would.

Like who? Boyd and Oscar?

Two come in part 1, and characters like Jill and Aran would love a Robe. As for the third....I dunno. Mist or Rhys could use it. Maybe Soren.

[Interceptor]

Like who? Boyd and Oscar?

In reference to what? Boyd, Oscar, Mia, Ike, and Ulki can all use it for BEXP abuse. Titania can use it strictly for the duability it offers. I'm not saying that Nephenee is not up there or anything, just pointing out that the field is not clear.

[nflchamp]

I would agree that Neph does better with a Robe than a Draco, but the case for the robe seems more difficult to make. Several people will cap HP almost instantly with a robe, or otherwise use it as effectively for durability as she would.

Like who? Boyd and Oscar?

Two come in part 1, and characters like Jill and Aran would love a Robe. As for the third....I dunno. Mist or Rhys could use it. Maybe Soren.

She certainly isn't getting a Part 1 Robe. Ain't happening. But the Robe that you basically get right when Neph rejoins in 3-2 is up for grabs.

Rhys sucks in the durability department even with the Robe.

Mist might be able to get some use out of it, but her DEF growth is even worse than Nephs. And she starts with even less durability.

Soren is a lot like Mist.

Seriously, I think Boyd and Oscar are probably the two who get the most out of the 3-1 Robe who aren't named Neph.

Edit: I think Ulki getting a Robe is a hilarious idea.

Edited September 16, 2009 by nflchamp

[Interceptor]

Does that mean that I shouldn't mention giving Ulki a Talisman and/or Spirit Dust? Three levels of SPD, and then it's nothing but turtles STR all the way down.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Interceptor

[Blademaster!]

Now that you guys have made your point, I see how she can be useful, but I thought it was generally a negative to say that a character needs this item to be useful when it comes to tier lists and there is also the fact that there are other units who you could say can use them. If using items becomes factored into a tier list, then it becomes biast to an extent. The same goes with giving her a forged weapon. But that's just my opinion on the issue. Essentially, the point your trying to make is that Nephenee is fast and when given proper items she becomes better.

Also for the record, I always found it best to give the 3 Angelic robes to Michiah (god knows she needs one) Sanaki (Once you give her an angelic robe, I find that she becomes much more useful since she becomes less fragile) and Pelleas due to his low Hp growth and base. The herons and other mages also make good candidates, but most units eventually cap Hp anyway.

I'll try using Nephenee again next time using your suggestions (execpt for the stat boosting ones)to see if she turns out any better.

[Kupo]

Now that you guys have made your point, I see how she can be useful, but I thought it was generally a negative to say that a character needs this item to be useful when it comes to tier lists and there is also the fact that there are other units who you could say can use them. If using items becomes factored into a tier list, then it becomes biast to an extent. The same goes with giving her a forged weapon. But that's just my opinion on the issue. Essentially, the point your trying to make is that Nephenee is fast and when given proper items she becomes better.

That depends on who else wants the item. Stat-up items are resources, like BEXP or Steel Greatlances. In a playthrough, it makes no sense not to use them. Generally it's decided that if a unit uses that item very well (benefits from it) and there isn't anyone else who benefits from it even better, then the unit will get that item. As for who benefits more; that's part of the discussion. Then there's the fact that not all units are always played; maybe Meg can use a robe better than Micaiah (just an example) but since Meg is not always deployed, Micaiah may still get the robe (unless we are arguing Meg specifically, in which case she is always deployed). I've never heard the term but I think that's what they call opportunity cost; forgive me if I'm using it wrong.

Nephenee has a claim to a dracoshield because very few people benefit from it as well as she does, so there is little demand. This is a point in her favour because it means she can brush up on one of her weak points (defense) without stealing high-demand items from the team.

[Rewjeo]

Sanaki and Pelleas being used at the same time with Nephenee? They're both in low, and an angelic robe doesn't save Sanaki anyways (not sure about Pelleas.)