RNG Princess Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) I have a feeling some of these lower tiered characters are underrated. Maybe Kyza can put wrath to good use or blossom. How long does it take for these upper tiered characters to get better? Brom, Nephenee, and Soren for example. (Brom and Nephy are pretty much required in Part 2 ) I know these characters have free chipping and free chapters over Kyza, but its not like that puts Astrid, Fiona and Meg over Kyza. Brom/Soren seem like they would take too much work to be of any good use and well Nephenee seems like she would only function well with BEXP just like I'm assuming Kyza would. Edited October 1, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Kyza levels at around the same speed as base Titania, except he doesn't have the Spd or Mt 2RKO most enemy types (except Sages which he can sometimes ORKO). He's also locked to 1-range and has to grass on some Player Phases. I suppose his offense isn't that much worse than Mordecai's though. I think with some positioning you could porbably get Kyza in Resolve range. Haven't tested this out myself, since I don't find Resolve!Mordecai that good anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 "Moreover, Kysha has really good defensive growths, which is more than can be said for Titania." @ Clockwork "He has 19 more HP than Titania at base, and his avo isn't that much worse (~5 due to luk difference), so if Titania is durable enough to wreck stuff, Kyza is definitely durable enough to gum away at enemies." "Kyza's durability is at least as good as Titania's, Oscar's, and Boyd's." 1: to examine (two or more objects, ideas, people, etc.) in order to note similarities and differences: to compare two pieces of cloth; to compare the governments of two nations. 2: to consider or describe as similar; liken: Shall I compare thee to a rainy day? I'm sorry, but I cannot fathom how you can not see that there are comparisons being made here. Apparently, Kysha has really good defensive growths, and titania being outclassed by him apparently, definitely a comparison. He has 19 more HP than Tit at base, and he should be able to gum away at enemies. Still, Titania is higher, why isn't Kysha in High tier? Oh, yes, he has no forged hand axes (biggest point). That's why i brought it up, so, can we get away from this now, and get back to the original idea? I'm not going to mentions tits anymore anyway , because she isn't in low tier anyway. For the info, hand axes have 1-2 range, before you bring up that Kysha is locked in 1 range. If you can't see what "comparing" means, you might have missed that as well. So, can we go back to the low tier Idea of a "draft like thing" now? Where people get a team with two open slots, which for everyone has a different filling, namely, two low tiers or so? it sounds reasonable, and gives an indication of how well they all perform. Utility, combat, etc. Props for who brought that idea up, it sounds good. :) I'm not going to do anything about it, because I do not have my Wii/Dolphin, but i'm really interested in the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) The point to bringing titania is to show how good his defence is, it as good as someone from higher tiers. Yes titania is way better than kyza no doubt, but thats not the point right now, they are talking that kyza's durability is great. Edited October 1, 2011 by SlayerX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Resolve on Kysha seems like a waste. What's problematic is his strength, rather than his speed and skill. He can't really get away with spending all his time at half HP either: sure, Kysha's durable, but he's no Mordecai. I've already discussed that Blossom probably harms Kysha as much as it helps him, unless he's going to level entirely off BEXP it hurts him more than it helps him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I would also say Kyza's Spd is a problem; 22 AS base just doesn't cut it (doubles Sages and Generals, though it's not like doubling the Generals does him any good). We can't BEXP him for Spd reliably (it's like his 5th highest growth) and he doesn't level especially quickly to rely on a 35% growth rate. A Speedwing helps him, but that's an ugly opportunity cost until 3-11 and by then it's almost too late. It's not Kyza's Part 4 is any kinder than Part 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) I would also say Kyza's Spd is a problem; 22 AS base just doesn't cut it (doubles Sages and Generals, though it's not like doubling the Generals does him any good). We can't BEXP him for Spd reliably (it's like his 5th highest growth) and he doesn't level especially quickly to rely on a 35% growth rate. A Speedwing helps him, but that's an ugly opportunity cost until 3-11 and by then it's almost too late. It's not Kyza's Part 4 is any kinder than Part 3. Yet it's far, far easier to fix Kysha's speed through levelling than it is to try and fix it with a Wing. If we're going to use Kysha, we should at least be willing to put some effort into developing him into a good character instead of just throwing spare resources at him until something sticks. Edited October 1, 2011 by Anouleth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) For Kyza you can give him Blossom in 3-4 because of the rate he levels he won't gain more than 1 level unless we take extra turns, he can take it off when he returns in 3-7 and gain better CEXP there at least this way he can get the extra speed point. BTW can someone make a good guess. If i'm raising Meg what level can she possible be by 1-E? Edited October 2, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 For Kyza you can give him Blossom in 3-4 because of the rate he levels he won't gain more than 1 level unless we take extra turns, If Kysha can gain one level with Blossom, he can gain two levels without Blossom. Two levels without Blossom > One level with Blossom. Unless you're talking about BEXPing him to .99 and then giving him Blossom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silith Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Chapter 3-4 is great for untransformed leveling 1 laguz for the 6-7 turns it takes to complete the map and then making great use of said laguz in chapter 3-7 and later. Realistically Kysha is not getting 2 levels in 3-4. Even with 99/100 bexp and smoking grass he just doesn't cut it. He's not fast or strong enough. I however often DO use Kysha to wall off spaces towards the backline as an emergency Wall. While Mordecai does this better Kysha is respectable in this. As for Kittylincia's Question. Meg depending on how much focuss is on her and how many other units you train can be anything between level 11 and 17 at the end of Part 1. Level 14 I would suggest as minimum if you want to seal her and use in Part 3. Her missed Speed doesn't matter since she'll ram the low cap as T2 really fast. The biggest hit will be the missed Str and Def (2 points each) but they will be respectable enough to work for you. (and she gets 2 on promotion anyways) I took averages for this. For the sake of RNG you'll want at least 14 points in Str, Spd AND Def. The promotion gains will make it so you won't get doubled by Tigers and get reasonably harm and survivability against both cats and tigers. She will not be OMGWTFBBQ efficient but she's not bad either. Edited October 2, 2011 by Silith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Chapter 3-4 is great for untransformed leveling 1 laguz for the 6-7 turns it takes to complete the map and then making great use of said laguz in chapter 3-7 and later. Realistically Kysha is not getting 2 levels in 3-4. Even with 99/100 bexp and smoking grass he just doesn't cut it. He's not fast or strong enough. I however often DO use Kysha to wall off spaces towards the backline as an emergency Wall. While Mordecai does this better Kysha is respectable in this. As for Kittylincia's Question. Meg depending on how much focuss is on her and how many other units you train can be anything between level 11 and 17 at the end of Part 1. Level 14 I would suggest as minimum if you want to seal her and use in Part 3. Her missed Speed doesn't matter since she'll ram the low cap as T2 really fast. The biggest hit will be the missed Str and Def (2 points each) but they will be respectable enough to work for you. (and she gets 2 on promotion anyways) I took averages for this. For the sake of RNG you'll want at least 14 points in Str, Spd AND Def. The promotion gains will make it so you won't get doubled by Tigers and get reasonably harm and survivability against both cats and tigers. She will not be OMGWTFBBQ efficient but she's not bad either. We're talking about Hard mode here... And needless to say, I don't think using Meg in hard mode is a good idea. Then again, I think even in normal mode she's pretty bleh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silith Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I am always talking HM. Haven't touched NM since my verry first PT. (Did some EM for rediculous gimmicy things a few times but 90% of my PT's are HM). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I am always talking HM. Haven't touched NM since my verry first PT. (Did some EM for rediculous gimmicy things a few times but 90% of my PT's are HM). Well, I dunno about you, but I definitely wouldn't use a character who the only praise I have to offer for her is that she's not Wendy (Meg) in hard mode, and I wouldn't bother with the likes of Lethe either in such a case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 As for Kittylincia's Question. Meg depending on how much focuss is on her and how many other units you train can be anything between level 11 and 17 at the end of Part 1. Level 14 I would suggest as minimum if you want to seal her and use in Part 3. Her missed Speed doesn't matter since she'll ram the low cap as T2 really fast. The biggest hit will be the missed Str and Def (2 points each) but they will be respectable enough to work for you. (and she gets 2 on promotion anyways) I took averages for this. For the sake of RNG you'll want at least 14 points in Str, Spd AND Def. The promotion gains will make it so you won't get doubled by Tigers and get reasonably harm and survivability against both cats and tigers. She will not be OMGWTFBBQ efficient but she's not bad either. No, she is bad. Barely not getting 1-rounded is not "good". Especially when you consider that her damage is abysmal. She's what, 5HKOing Tigers and not doubling? Maybe 3HKOing Cats and definitely not doubling? If getting knocked down to single-digit HP by every enemy and 3-5RKOing isn't bad, then what is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 @Anouleth, yes BEXP+Blossom is what I meant for Kyza. I want to try Meg in HM but i'm not sure , I probably will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Haven't you tried that before in your video playthrough before, Queenie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) I tried Fiona and Astrid but i've never fully trained Meg ^^' in HM Edited October 3, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 You trained Fiona and Astrid. Meg can't possibly be worse. Thats why she is above fiona :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognit0 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Why is Boyd (T) below Gatrie (T)? The opportunity cost of taking a crown is greater than the cost of taking a wing from TItania (N), if you are going to insist this is the situation, and especially Titania (T - Spd) if you will acknowledge this is the more likely reality. Gatrie still lags behind on move. Boyd's durability is still really not an issue until around 3-8. It isn't like you can throw either of them at enemies on 3-P, 3-2, 3-3, 3-4, 3-5 or 3-7 in ways that they will get killed. Granted, 3-1 Gatrie's durability is nice, but the move advantage is more important, plus Boyd has a much better Part 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I thought we had discussed that already, i beleive it ended in Boyd > Gatrie cause of movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) You trained Fiona and Astrid. Meg can't possibly be worse. Thats why she is above fiona :P ^^' you're right thank you for the confidence I just replayed a save file of 2-E and I can't believe my eyes Haar humiliates HM with only a little bit of BEXP Edited October 3, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Why is Boyd (T) below Gatrie (T)? The opportunity cost of taking a crown is greater than the cost of taking a wing from TItania (N), if you are going to insist this is the situation, and especially Titania (T - Spd) if you will acknowledge this is the more likely reality. Gatrie still lags behind on move. Boyd's durability is still really not an issue until around 3-8. It isn't like you can throw either of them at enemies on 3-P, 3-2, 3-3, 3-4, 3-5 or 3-7 in ways that they will get killed. Granted, 3-1 Gatrie's durability is nice, but the move advantage is more important, plus Boyd has a much better Part 4. I've already brought this up myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognit0 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) I've already brought this up myself... Did it ever reach a resolution? Because right now Boyd (T) is below Gatrie (T) and I just want to know why. Edited October 3, 2011 by incognit0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 As I recall, originally Boyd T was underneath Gatrie N, and I was willing to let Gatrie T go because he does have some short term advantages in strength and speed and defense. But I think Boyd T is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aku chi Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 As I recall, originally Boyd T was underneath Gatrie N, and I was willing to let Gatrie T go because he does have some short term advantages in strength and speed and defense. But I think Boyd T is better. I do believe that Gatrie (T) is notably better than Boyd (T) in Part 3, but Boyd (T)'s Part 4 has so much more potential that I too believe Boyd (T) > Gatrie (T) now. It's definitely a closer comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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