OMG it's a tier list

[_____]

There's always that chance.

And there's always the chance that the player will recruit no characters and will solo the game with Lyre. The point is, the chances of that happening are next to none on a normal playthrough.

[Vykan12]

Uh, yeah. Oliver healing for 5 chapters > Lehran healing for 1. :/

What Oliver does is take up one of your 10 optional endgame slots to do something that a levelled Micaiah already can, and that other units can do better (Elincia, Mist, etc). Moreover, he requires protection in many chapters. Thus, having him on your team instead of a 1337 fighter or a superior healer is a bad thing.

Lehran, on the other hand, comes for free (recruitment requirements aside) so at worst he’s neutral towards the team. I hope by now there’s been ample evidence that he’s actually pretty awesome in that one chapter. To me at least, that easily makes him more useful than the magnificent fat man.

You didn't use Fortify in hard mode?

Because it seems to me that it's impossible to not have any casualties without it.

Pretty certain auras and Ashera have the same stats on HM as they do on NM, not sure about those pesky spirits.

What a character brings to the team can be put into a formula: stuff they add to the team minus stuff they are taking away from the team (be it money, flexibility, healing, etc).

Well a character coming with a good weapon is adding flexibility to the team, which kind of adds validity to the rhetorical question I posed earlier.

Lehran gives you healing and offense for one short chapter of three turns max length (1 and 2 turns have been done, but I think 3 is reasonable. In trade, you had to completely overturn your strategy for 3-7, probably risk death/reset since the Black Knight is hax, and Ike is also likely to get doubled.

2 turning it requires a fairly specific set of units chosen and very precise use of dragons, along with minimizing overkill damage performed on auras, among other things. I’d say the average player takes 5 or more turns to beat it. Yes I know the goal of a tier list is beating the game efficiently, but it doesn’t mean we assume the game is beaten in the lowest turn count possible, it just means that the more helpful a character is in helping to achieve a good turn count, the better.

[_____]

What Oliver does is take up one of your 10 optional endgame slots to do something that a levelled Micaiah already can, and that other units can do better (Elincia, Mist, etc). Moreover, he requires protection in many chapters. Thus, having him on your team instead of a 1337 fighter or a superior healer is a bad thing.

Lehran, on the other hand, comes for free (recruitment requirements aside) so at worst he’s neutral towards the team. I hope by now there’s been ample evidence that he’s actually pretty awesome in that one chapter. To me at least, that easily makes him more useful than the magnificent fat man.

Well a character coming with a good weapon is adding flexibility to the team, which kind of adds validity to the rhetorical question I posed earlier.

If the fact that he's not going to be brought to endgame was relevant, you wouldn't have brought him up, would you? It's safe to assume in this comparison that Oliver will be taken to the endgame. Anyway, he's much better in the endgame than Micaiah. In Hard Mode, with limited combat exp and bonus exp, it can be quite difficult at times to raise Micaiah, especially taking into her frailness. It's possible that she can be 20 by Part 1 Endgame, mainly due to Chapter 9, which gives her quite a bit of experience. Her real problem comes in the Part 3/4 chapters. 3-6 is normally very short, with your DB units pulling out Beastfoe to kick laguz ass. She has healing utility, luckily, because her offense sucks at that point, but she's only healing once a turn, and you're finishing the chapter quickly. She's _lucky_ to get that level a chapter. Same with 3-12 and 3-13, with 3-13 being even worse because she can't moe around and heal. She has Purge, but that has a lolable 5 uses. She's not doing much in Part 4's prolouge because Naesala's probably rushing the chapter to get maximum BEXP. Chapter 3's even worse because she'll be silenced most of the time, and rushing towards Stefan.

Enter Oliver. He's the boss of 4-4 and recruited in that chapter. He's obviously not helping, but at least he's there and not getting his ass kicked.

Micaiah promotes! Wee! Unfortunatly, she's probably only 20/14 if you got really, really lucky.

So, now we're in the endgame. Micaiah's healing, Oliver's healing. Micaiah does nothing else, but Oliver can serve as a decent attacking unit. Why, you may ask? Simple. He starts with 18 Defense. That's one point less than Micaiah at the same level, but wait! She's 20/14/1! Her stats are quite a bit below Oliver's. Oliver can defeat those armors at the start of 4-E-1 with the Nosferatu he comes with or the Valaura he got from Valtome. His Weapon Level will rise quickly probably due to Discipline, since no one else wants to use it. Now, he gets Rexaura. Besides healing, he's now able to kill stuff that doesn't suck! Sure, he's not one-rounding Lekain, but 2-rounding archers is not out of the question.

So that goes on for a while. Oliver lols at White Dragons in 4-E-3, and lols at the Spirits in 4-E-4. Now, Lehran joins. He's got a cool staff there. He steals Oliver's blessed Rexaura (that bastard!), and gives him his Ashera Staff to heal with. 'K. So, Lehran's helping kill Ashera, while Oliver chills out in the back with Micaiah and the like, healing and maybe killing a few Spirits with the remaining Nosferatus and Valauras he has left.

So, Lehran helps kill Ashera in 1 chapter, which your other party members could've done, and Oliver's healing and killing through the entire endgame.

GAME! SET! MATCH! </Rant>

Onto your next point. The weapons that characters come with have no standing on a character's placement on a tier list. They could easily go to someone else.

[Destiny Hero]

Ninji and I were bored, so we made a tier list in the chat. Here we go.

Top (3)

Reyson He should only be High. He can't fight at all, and gets killed instantly. And untransformed, he just revives one character.

Haar

Ike

High (11)

Zihark

Sothe Eew, he's a turd.

Titania

Shinon

Nolan

Nailah

Tibarn Tibarn isn't top? This tier list blows.

Mia

Rafiel

Leanne Gee, those two got pretty far.

Oscar

Upper Middle (15)

Jill

Laura

Aran

Nephenee

Elincia She should be High because of her killer weapon, and her stave abilities.

Volug

Soren

Ulki I'd have to say no. Naesala and Tibarn just completely outclass them.

Janaff

Edward

Ranulf

Micaiah

Gatrie

Naesala Higher pl0x

Boyd

Middle (14)

Marcia

Rolf

Mist Eewww, SMACK! Low tier please.

Heather

Brom

Tanith

Skrimir

Caineghis

Giffca

Mordecai

Calill

Tauroneo Higher, for being invincible.

Kieran

Ilyana

Lower Middle (8)

Rhys

Geoffrey

Makalov

Lucia

Leonardo

Kyza

Volke I'd bump him up for his h4x criticals, and godly skills and avoid.

Stefan

Low (13)

Bastian Up. Besides Speed, everything about him's good.

Danved

Muarim

Pelleas He should be up at Middle or High; he's pretty good, and the only one who can use all those Dark tomes.

Tormod

Vika

Kurthnaga

Nealuchi

Sigrun

Oliver

Sanaki

Nasir

Lethe

Bottom (9)

Astrid

Lehran

Meg

Renning

Fiona Up

Ena

Gareth There's no negative tier?

Lyre

Voice all complaints loudly. I have differing opinions about this myself, but what do you all think? Are we nuts for making a tier list for a single player game?

[Florete]

Micaiah reaching 20/20/1 is actually very reasonable. She's arguably the best candidate for Paragon on 3-6 and possibly 3-12 and 3-13, and she can one-shot the armors and horses in 3-12 as well as getting Physic in 3-6 and another Physic in 3-13. In 3-6 she can also use the Torch if there is no one to heal.

Destiny Hero, give actual reasoning to move characters if you're going to suggest anything.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Red Fox of Fire

[_____]

Reyson: Reyson, when transformed, which is easy due to the large amount of Laguz stones, will revitalize 4 characters at once. He's 4 characters in 1, which is awesome. :/

Sothe: no stfu plzthx

Tibarn: He's only around for Part 4. Lame.

Leanne: She's a weaker Reyson. Same with Rafiel.

Elincia: She's also gone for 75% of the game.

Ulki: Ulki > Naesala because he's around for longer and gets similar stats. He just has a lot more avoid than Naesala could ever hope for.

Naesala: Only useable in Part 4 and worst Laguz Royal. laem again

Mist: Mounted Healer with a Prf Sword-weapon which is pretty awesome. She stays.

Tauroneo: He's not invincible past the 2 Part 1 chapters he's in. ;)

Volke: He's useable for 6 chapters. That's worse than the Laguz Royals. Also, Knives suck and his skills/critical chances aren't nearly as godly as you say they are.

Bastian: Everything's NEAR DECENT about him besides speed. He's pretty bad.

Pelleas: Dark Magic sucks, and he's underleveled.

Fiona: Can't survive her joining chapter. She's horrible.

Gareth: I wish.

Fox: Even with Paragon, she's gaining a level every 5 turns. The chapters are not going to last more than 7 turns, except 3-13, in which Laura makes better use of the Psychic because she can actually move. 20/14 isn't unreasonable, but it's not probable.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Harold

[Florete]

Fox: Even with Paragon, she's gaining a level every 5 turns. The chapters are not going to last more than 7 turns, except 3-13, in which Laura makes better use of the Psychic because she can actually move. 20/14 isn't unreasonable, but it's not probable.

Thani is powerful, allowing her to finish off certain enemies when she doesn't need to heal, especially the armored units in 3-12 that no one else is doing much damage to except maybe Nolan/Jill with a Hammer but lolable accuracy. And by the time 3-13 comes around, 2 Physics are available. Both Laura and Micaiah can have one. Micaiah's better with it anyway because of higher magic for higher range and probably not fighting as much.

[Vykan12]

If the fact that he's not going to be brought to endgame was relevant, you wouldn't have brought him up, would you? It's safe to assume in this comparison that Oliver will be taken to the endgame.

That’s not my problem with him, I said he’s taking up a slot that could be used better, thus giving him negative utility. You seem to be interpreting it as me saying he won’t be used and therefore his endgame performance shouldn’t be examined.

Anyway, he's much better in the endgame than Micaiah […]

I wasn’t ever comparing her to Micaiah, just that she gives you a forced deployed healer, hence decreasing the value of other healers you bring along, especially with the existence of the fortify. She doesn’t even need to be good to use it, if she had a pitiful 20 mag she’s healing 30 hp for anyone within 10 spaces of her, which is more than enough.

You went on about the Micaiah vs Oliver thing for a while, though there were some things that caught my attention.

So, now we're in the endgame. Micaiah's healing, Oliver's healing. Micaiah does nothing else, but Oliver can serve as a decent attacking unit. Why, you may ask? Simple. He starts with 18 Defense.

18 defence is horrible.

Oliver can defeat those armors at the start of 4-E-1 with the Nosferatu he comes with or the Valaura he got from Valtome.

Oliver also has 20 base spd, which means 4-E(1) generals are doubling him, and some of them have 40+ MT, so they’re doing between 30-40 damage to him. I’m amazed that Oliver can actually survive one of their attacks but that’s besides the point. If Oliver is getting doubled, he obviously isn’t doubling himself, and with only 31 base magic, he’s certainly not 1HKOing those armors. In fact, with a shine tome (the best tome before Rexaura, which you get from Lekain), he’s doing a pitiful 18 damage to gens. 3HKOing enemies while getting 2HKOed in return is about as good as Fiona’s earlygame.

His Weapon Level will rise quickly probably due to Discipline, since no one else wants to use it.

I actually find it more efficient to buy all the arms scrolls in the 4-E base since you’ve got nothing better to burn your money on, and that’ll get Micaiah her S rank in staves if she doesn’t have it already.

Now, he gets Rexaura. Besides healing, he's now able to kill stuff that doesn't suck! Sure, he's not one-rounding Lekain, but 2-rounding archers is not out of the question.

For him to be attacking archers, that’d mean he’s on the frontlines instead of sitting back in a deserted area popping physics or something, so kudos at him needing like 3-4 ppl to protect him at all times just so we can 2-3HKO enemies who can’t even counter at 1 range.

So that goes on for a while. Oliver lols at White Dragons in 4-E-3, and lols at the Spirits in 4-E-4.

Or rather, white dragons lol at him. They have 67 hp and 36 res so Oliver with Rexaura is only 5RKOing them at base level, 3RKOing them at max level and even taking 2 rounds to kill them with max stats, an attack support and a corona activation! Then on defence, Oliver has at most 34 res according to avg stats while white dragons have 54 MT, so he’s getting 3HKOed by them. Don’t even get me started on red dragons, they eat people like Oliver for breakdast.

[…] and maybe killing a few Spirits with the remaining Nosferatus and Valauras he has left.

Lolno. Spirits have about 1.5 times Oliver’s speed, he couldn’t double them even if he got resolve to activate.

So umm, what was all this fallacious Oliver information based off of? Can’t have been personal experience.

[Vykan12]

Micaiah reaching 20/20/1 is actually very reasonable. She's arguably the best candidate for Paragon on 3-6 and possibly 3-12 and 3-13, and she can one-shot the armors and horses in 3-12 as well as getting Physic in 3-6 and another Physic in 3-13. In 3-6 she can also use the Torch if there is no one to heal.

You could cart off paragon to the GMs since they have more opportunity to use it, but wtv. I don’t see putting paragon on a staff user as being a very wise decision when you could put it on almost any attacker in 3-6 and have them level up every kill.

As for Destiny Hero

Eew, he's a turd.

Rofl, the logic is killing me, I am so compelled to move Sothe down because of his emo-ness and his third tier belly shirt, not to mention loli shmex with Micaiah.

I'd have to say no. Naesala and Tibarn just completely outclass them.

“Outclassing” is an irrelevant argument in a tier list. If you remove Shinon from the game, Rolf’s utility as a fighter doesn’t change. Thus, Shinon’s existence doesn’t make Rolf bad. The same applies when comparing Janaff and Ulki to Tibarn, plus they’re arguably better for having superior playtime despite being worse than Tibarn when he's around.

Eewww, SMACK! Low tier please.

Indeed, Mist is now low tier because Destiny Hero is Mist’s pimp daddy. Smack that ho!

Edited December 23, 2008 by Vykan12

[Florete]

You could cart off paragon to the GMs since they have more opportunity to use it, but wtv. I don’t see putting paragon on a staff user as being a very wise decision when you could put it on almost any attacker in 3-6 and have them level up every kill.

The GM's don't need Paragon nearly as much, plus they get two in 3-11 anyway. Paragon on a staff user is great when you have Torch, Physic, and Recover and are likely using at least one of them every turn, where fighters aren't killing every turn. Besides, Micaiah can attack as well. Almost no one is one-rounding anything except Sothe and possibly someone with Beastfoe, so having her take kills can be very nice.

[Vykan12]

The GM's don't need Paragon nearly as much, plus they get two in 3-11 anyway.

Although I agree the DB "want" the skill more, it's still an option that's available that's worth consideration as an alternative, which is all I meant by bringing it up.

Paragon on a staff user is great when you have Torch, Physic, and Recover and are likely using at least one of them every turn, where fighters aren't killing every turn. Besides, Micaiah can attack as well.

There's also the question of whether she can do anything meaningful with all that exp we're giving her. Micaiah's 20/20 spd average is only 21, which means she can't double anything in part 4 and will get doubled by some part 4 enemies. Even if her spd gets blessed, it's still only 25 at most, which still ain't doubling anything besides maybe enemy mages, whom will have too much res for her to 1 round. Her def and hp are still pitiful and the only good thing going for her statistically is her mag and res which both cap at 20/13. So, as far as I see it, not giving her paragon would give her a realistic chance of being 20/13/1 in 4-E while still having 32 mag and a good staff rank, so she can excel at healing just as I've been stating in other arguments.

Almost no one is one-rounding anything except Sothe and possibly someone with Beastfoe, so having her take kills can be very nice.

That actually means there's more exp to be gained since every attack is 30-40 exp for that paragon user, and you still have to kill the same number of enemies whether you 1RKO the map or 100RKO.

[Florete]

So, as far as I see it, not giving her paragon would give her a realistic chance of being 20/13/1 in 4-E while still having 32 mag and a good staff rank, so she can excel at healing just as I've been stating in other arguments.

If that's the case, this entire argument was meaningless.

On a PE note, my recent HM Micaiah got massively speed blessed. Max speed at 20/10. Hell fucking yes.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Red Fox of Fire

[Seph]

And there's always the chance that the player will recruit no characters and will solo the game with Lyre. The point is, the chances of that happening are next to none on a normal playthrough.

This tier list is for hard mode, I believe. If so, that is not the case. This tier list shows the efficiency of characters and the tier list has nothing to do with that.

The chances of getting an item is much lower than getting a character anyway. Items are generally much better hidden than characters. And there are far more items than characters. So, the chance of getting a single item isn't as high as getting characters.

[Florete]

I added Epic and Phail tiers for lulz.

[Killer Poleax]

Sometimes the 3-13 archer is stupid enough to get himself surrounded by all 3 laguz and he'll die if he's not healed. He's a combination of bravery and stupidity. Him jumping down into the laguz pit is one of my fave moments of the chapter.

Why is 3-13 archer top of the epic tier? Is it because there's a high chance that he won't die while the others are guaranteed to die? I'm guessing BK's only lower than him cause of his embarassing "fight" with Ike in 4-E-2.

Edited December 25, 2008 by KSFF2150

[Shadow Mir]

Lekain to phail tier plz.

[riariadne]

Epic (4) Me likes this tier.

3-13 Archer

Black Knight

Dheginsea

Zelgius

Top (3) Me likes this tier, too.

Reyson

Haar

Ike

High (13)

Zihark

Sothe

Titania

Shinon

Nolan

Nailah

Mia

Leanne

Laura maybe down a few spots

Rafiel

Volug

Oscar

Tibarn

Upper Middle (13)

Jill

Nephenee

Elincia

Soren

Janaff

Ulki

Aran

Edward

Ranulf

Micaiah hmm... maybe up a little bit

Gatrie

Naesala maybe a little higher.

Boyd I'd say up a bit. he's pretty good.

Middle (13)

Mist

Marcia

Heather

Rolf well, Marksmen are pretty win, maybe up a little bit.

Tanith

Brom

Skrimir maybe up a few spots

Mordecai

Calill

Caineghis maybe up a little...

Giffca just under caineghis if you move him.

Tauroneo

Kieran

Lower Middle (10)

Ilyana

Rhys

Geoffrey

Makalov

Lucia

Kyza

Leonardo I'd say up a few spots, but not higher than geoffery.

Volke

Stefan

Muarim

Low (12)

Bastian maybe down a little.

Danved

Tormod

Pelleas

Nealuchi

Lethe

Vika

Kurthnaga I'd say up one spot please.

Sigrun

Sanaki

Oliver

Nasir

Bottom (9)

Astrid

Lehran

Meg

Renning come on, he's better than meg.

Fiona

Ena err, just below renning if you move him or not, please.

Gareth

Lyre

Phail (3)

Lekain

Hetzel he saved Rafiel's life. up one spot please.

Septimus

Except for the above changes, I like this list.

EDIT: Fixed something.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Reinfleche

[Mekkah]

Destiny Hero, give actual reasoning to move characters if you're going to suggest anything.

I agree with this, and it should go for everyone. Moreover, "he is mounted and his stats are good" is not a reason to move someone up, nor is "she is bad without BEXP and knives suck" (just giving examples, those aren't real quotes). If you wish to move someone up, you have to give reasons why he is better than the people who are above him (i.e. you have to compare him), or if you wish to move someone down, you have to do the reverse.

For example, I think the Hawks deserve more credit than Soren in HM. To put it in vykan's words, "they're basically Haars with 1-range and some transformation issues" (and less availability). Soren strikes me more as a liability, due to his tendecy to get 1-2RKOed by stuff he faces. He sees enemy phase action about as often as a Sniper. And his doubling is shaky, while the Hawks can double about everything, up to Auras.

I also think Gatrie > Micaiah > Eddie. The list has them reversed. Eddie is nothing but a Pawn Brigade liability, with no 1-range and a huge durability problem. Micaiah is much like him, except she gets one-rounded instead of two-rounded, but she attacks at range and has heal/sacrifice, and an auto-A with Sothe. And Micaiah doesn't compete for a unit slot in the final chapter, while Eddie does. Gatrie himself is just a manly man who takes hits and shrugs them off, he's actually one of the better Greil Mercs, and he's good at either crowning or BEXP ramming. He is never a liability, he is a contributor.

[Wisper]

Why is Mist always ranked so high on tier lists? I don't see her contributing much except crappy combat and slightly OK healing. Sure she gets a mount after promotion, but her stats are overall very meh.

[Vykan12]

Why is Mist always ranked so high on tier lists? I don't see her contributing much except crappy combat and slightly OK healing. Sure she gets a mount after promotion, but her stats are overall very meh.

Being your only healer aside from Rhys for most of part 3 is pretty cool, then she gives good support boosts with her water affinity and gains a mount upon promotion for some good heal + run fun. Probably not super relevant, but having canto makes it easier to use Reyson's vigoring, which means Mist is more likely to get in 2 heals per turn than Rhys/Soren/Ilyana.

Now some other stuff.

Why is Shinon so damn high? You’ve got him > all these people

Nolan

Nailah

Mia

Leanne

Laura

Rafiel

Volug

Oscar

Tibarn

Yes, I know killer bow in early part 3 chapters is cool and so is pwning 4-E with the double bow but he can’t counter on enemy phase (aside from crossbows, which are horrible). Just take someone like Gatrie who has better durability than him and can 2RKO enemies with 1-2 range weapons before he gets crowned (at which point he has enough spd to 1RKO stuff) in sacrifice for 1 point of movement, a little more in bushes n stuff. Or Oscar who has better durability after supports and better mobility in exchange for worse offence, which is heavily mitigated by the fact that Shinon ain’t doing squat on enemy phase aside from maybe 3RKOing stuff with crossbows, whereas you could’ve walled him in and gotten better enemy phase results with your other units taking the counters.

Also, I dunno how you could have Neph > people like Gatrie, the hawks, Ranulf and Elincia. She’s one of your worst units in part 2 and below average when she re-joins in part 3, that’s never going to compensate for her being the best wielder of the wishblade (even then, arguable w/ Tanith) in those match-ups.

Lethe > Nealuchi. If you still think availability alone is w1n (you still have Leo > Muarim/Stefan) then you should notice that Lethe has a lot more availability than Nealuchi, plus she arguably beats him in part 2 damage.

And what is making Renning better than the dragons? K, he can use the hammer in 4-E(1) but so can any other axe user and there’s only 2 of them, so wtv at that, then he’s got wyrmslayers in 4-E(3) but probably still not doing enough damage to ORKO red dragons, and everywhere else his spd and other fail stats make him more of a burden than a help. I guess he could give a quick Earth support to someone but the value of that quickly diminishes when you see how intensely the hit rates increase as the 4-E chapters go along (4-E(1) starts at 130-150ish hit and 4-E(5) goes as high as 200+, at which point there’s no chance you’re making dodges against spirits, especially when they can pick targets thanks to near infinite move).

On the other hand, dragons are incredible boons to your efficiency in the last 2 chapters, just have a look at what they can allow you to do. Sure, I’m not saying that dragons are making you 1 turn the final chapter, but they certainly are shaving off turns if you make proper use of canto units using tide-ed squares and re-moving somewhere convenient, say for a heron vigor and other such maneuvers. Renning is not shaving turns for your team, ever.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Vykan12

[riariadne]

Why is Shinon so high?

...but he can’t counter on enemy phase (aside from crossbows, which are horrible).

Shinon is high up because Marksmen are w1n.

And Double Bow has 1-2 range (1-3 with Marksman range bonus). Which adds even more w1n.

[Vykan12]

Shinon is high up because Marksmen are w1n.

Care to elaborate? The 3 range he gains on promotion allows him to avoid 1-2 range counters and have a larger attack range, which could be thought of as a static mobility boost. Yes, it's fun to take out enemies from 3 spaces away and laugh at their sorry ***es, but it doesn't really give much of a strategic edge over other characters who have fundamentally good offence and mobility, and it doesn't eliminate his #1 problem, which is non-existant to lacklustre enemy phase.

And Double Bow has 1-2 range (1-3 with Marksman range bonus). Which adds even more w1n.

I already accounted for that. Even then, he only gets to use it for 5 chapters, all of which are among the shortest in the game no less and his abilities of 1-3 range domination don't stand out as much as they would in another part of the game when you consider everyone else's performance at 20/20 with full supports and stacked with adepts/resolves/etc, the existence of royals, etc.

[Lord Raven]

All five of the endgame chapters are short lol... I take like three or four turns to beat the first three and like two to beat the last two.

But everyone else is 20/20 by the final chapter? In hard mode? Shinon's like six levels away from promoting! (Though, HM experience is a BITCH, but Titania's the only one closer.)

(aside from crossbows, which are horrible)

Crossbows can be decent if you manage to figure out how to use them. If you can, switching around his equipment before the end of the player phase could allow him that 1-2 range that people wished Archers could have, on top of how they're doing enough damage to get enemies to 1/2-2/3 health. Early on at least... Aqqar can serve this role later on, but Arbalest is worthless because Double Bow comes right when it sees use. (Blizzard/Meteor/Bolting/Purge the Archer then switch out the equipment).

Lethe > Nealuchi. If you still think availability alone is w1n (you still have Leo > Muarim/Stefan) then you should notice that Lethe has a lot more availability than Nealuchi, plus she arguably beats him in part 2 damage.

Leo is > Muarim and Stefan? That's kinda stupid... Stefan has potential to be good, Leo will always drag. And Muarim is actually useful somewhere as well... but Leo is not doing well enough ever.

[Vykan12]

But everyone else is 20/20 by the final chapter? In hard mode? Shinon's like six levels away from promoting! (Though, HM experience is a BITCH, but Titania's the only one closer.)

Okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but they will either hit it at some time in 4-E or will already have their important stuff capped. Still, deploying your 10 best units regardless of their level and packing on your best skills and weaponry onto them will make most of your deployed units wtfpowerful.

Crossbows can be decent if you manage to figure out how to use them. If you can, switching around his equipment before the end of the player phase could allow him that 1-2 range that people wished Archers could have, on top of how they're doing enough damage to get enemies to 1/2-2/3 health.

I know that but it forces someone to commit to making the trade whilst still being able to attack an enemy, be besides a support partner or some other useful function, so the restrictiveness is bad. What you get in return... Shinon w/ crossbow is easily losing to Haar, Gatrie and Titania with hand axes, Ike with a wind edge and maybe even some of your weaker characters like Oscar and Mia with 1-2. The only thing that will allow him to do reasonable damage (though likely not 1RKO) is a crit, but that's unreliable, even if you give him some bonds or something.

Early on at least... Aqqar can serve this role later on, but Arbalest is worthless because Double Bow comes right when it sees use. (Blizzard/Meteor/Bolting/Purge the Archer then switch out the equipment).

Bleh, I'd argue first of all that the stronger enemies would match the higher MT of the aqqar, or at least be close to, then aqqar has more limited uses, plus it has a lot more competition. For instance, Rolf, Leo, Nolan and Boyd can all use it, and it's very valuable when combined with beastfoe/dragonfoe for 4-5 and 4-E(3).

Edited December 29, 2008 by Vykan12

[Wisper]

Being your only healer aside from Rhys for most of part 3 is pretty cool, then she gives good support boosts with her water affinity and gains a mount upon promotion for some good heal + run fun. Probably not super relevant, but having canto makes it easier to use Reyson's vigoring, which means Mist is more likely to get in 2 heals per turn than Rhys/Soren/Ilyana.

That still isn't enough, in my opinion. Her stats are just so bad. Sure she can heal, but she starts at a base magic of 13, so her healing isn't that great. Plus, the GM's don't need a healer. Just give your units some vulneraries (you get several during part 3) and they're good to go. Come part 4, she's so pathetically outclassed by Elincia it isn't even funny. Actually, it is a bit funny. haha.

She's horrible combat wise, and really mediocre healing wise until her level gets higher. Overall, a very mediocre unit that doesn't really contribute much besides her average healing.