Bleach

[BrightBow]

Well, my main reason for using spoiler tags was because I usally end up writing long text.

No. Aizen said everything worked perfectly. This means he planned this all to happen.

I didn't mean to say that I actually buy Aizen's claim. (Yes, I did write that but it wasn't what I actually meant. ) Just that Aizen being the answer to questions that have been left suspiciously unanswered so far, is as a rather small surprise and while unoriginal, does by no means "slap the earlier portions of the manga in the dick". I'm just saying that I have little trouble buying Aizen was involved in Ichigo's development, I don't think that he was the gamemaster who could set the rules as he fit, but just the best player on the board who carefully moved a few figures, to push the game into the direction he wanted. I think that claiming he was behind every battle is something that suits him. Exaggerating his own powers, intelligence and planning ability is something he has done before and is therefore in his character. The most blatant example was when he claimed before the battle between his Espada and the Goto 13, that he successfully halved the military strength of the Soul Society. While this was true, it didn't matter at all since the captains trapped in Hueco Mundo killed just as many Espada and therefore he didn't got any kind of advantage out of it, since his own military strength was also halved. This can also be backed up by chapter 249 where Ulquiorra explained in detail how Orihime's feelings were manipulated by Aizen in order to get her to Hueco Mundo. Ulqui concluded that Aizen considers the whole thing a game and doesn't care that much whether things turn out as he expects or not, which makes sense given that he could have just kidnapped her forcefully and be done with it. So Aizen just gets fun out of manipulating people and screwing with their heads and at the moment he is testing this ability on Ichigo.

So I just consider his claims he uses more as exaggerations rather then flat out lies and said claim "I planned all of your battles" just sounds to me like "all your battles that actually mattered" so I don't consider that not being the man behind small fries like the Shrieker contradicts his claim at the core.

Somewhat fair. But probably not completely, since his hypnosis doesn't let him actually control someone, but their senses. Getting them to choose to send those two doesn't sound very logical.

I was referring to the fact that he impersonated the Central 46 whose orders the Goto 13 have to follow which allowed him to order Byakuya's squad to deal with that affair. I'm sorry but my text at this point is a bit of a mess since I originally wanted to deal with Ichigos first encounter with those 2 separately to his latter encounters with them but then I ended up merging those parts together.

No. He became interested in Ichigo specifically after he heard from Ikkaku. He became interested in battling the ryoka in general when they survived against him.

Yes, he learned from Ikkaku the name of the strongest ryoka, but he would have tried to track down the strongest of them anyway, and that person would be Ichigo anyway so a battle between the two was likely.

You skipped Byakuya

I haven't skipped him, I talked about him in my earlier part about Renji and Byakuya. Well, I will use the opportunity to rephrase this then:

Byakuya is Rukia's brother but he didn't do anything to prevent her from being excecuted and even went as far as to announce that he would do this by his own hands at one point. Since Ichigo cannot stand it if brothers behave like that, it was to be expect that Ichigo would try to beat some sense into him.

That doesn't make sense. Seeing that they would probably break the rules doesn't mean he planned it. And he couldn't have planned that they would attack him at such specific times, and that he would be saved by Nel and then Kenpachi.

While I'm not sure if it can be considered planning, he clearly excpected parts of the Espada to go against his orders. This can be seen in chapter 255 when Aizen finds out that Szayelaporro Grantz went against his orders and sended the Exequias after Ichigo. Grantz tried to make up an excuse for this but Aizen actually encourages him to keep going, by making clear that he knews his true intentions, but accepts his excuse anyway.

And Grimmjow was guaranteed to go after Ichigo, seeing how the 2 of them engaged in battle a few times already and he even attack Ulqui to get to his pray. Aizen should know Grimmjows behavior good enough to see that he would not miss that opportunity to duke it out with Ichigo.

About Niotra disobeying his orders was not something you could know for sure, but Aizen should know him well enough to at last expect it.

And as Ulqui said it, if things turn out for Aizen as he expects, it is fine. If not it's also fine.

So he doesn't care that much if things turn out exactly as he expects them to do.

Also Aizen could indeed have expected Nell to save Ichigo. He has the habit to know what all of his subordinates doing so he probably knew that Notra took out Nel and she ended up transforming into a child. (And how do you think Niotra explained the disappearance of the 3rd Espada back then? I doubt he could have fooled Aizen.) He also can monitor everything that happens in the area so he could have also known that she accompanied Ichigo and that she might turn back to normal if she is desperate enough, which would be the case if somebody tortured Ichigo. And if Ichigo actually died without his hollow showing up to save him or some other miracle, Aizen might have simply considered him a failed experiment. And it's not like that Ichigo being useless for him would stop him from kicking the Goto 13's ass with his cheap illusion powers and to create the Kingskey thing. As far as his planes are revealed, he doesn't need Ichigo.

This doesn't make sense. Aizen ordering him to attack Ichigo doesn't translate to him being aware that Ichigo would eventually become a stronger hollow and kill him. There's nothing that has shown he could have possibly known it would happen.

I only speculated about Ulquiorra's motives and pointed out that Aizen did set up the final fight between the two.

The purpose of all these examples was to show that Aizen might had his hands in Ichigo's important battles. How he could know that Ichigo would get as far as he did without dieing for real, is something that I also want to be explained in detail but since he knows more about Ichigo then Ichigo himself it's not impossible for him to know what he would become. But I could actually just accept that he simply expected Ichigo to succeed, and if he didn't simply would have tried something else to reach his goals.

No, it doesn't, because Ichigo becoming Vaizard could not have possibly entered his plans.

I'm soory but I don't quite understand this. Are you saying that Aizen could not have known that Ichigo was a Vizard? If so then why wouldn't he?

This was probably supposed to be Urahara being set up as a villain earlier on, or it was merely that Urahara was interested in seeing his potential. This can be easily seen when he battled against the Menos Grande.

I just wanted to point out that Urahara didn't need his help, yet he arranged fights for him, which he knew he couldn't win, like his first one against Renji and Byakuya and gave him a training that could have easily killed him. Anyway, whatever motivations for his actions are, doesn't change that he manipulated him to do what he wanted him to do.

This actually doesn't assist your point, but serves as a fair follow up to the above example; he let Ichigo go get Rukia because he (and probably Yoruichi too) want nothing to do with Seireitei, and is interested in how far Ichigo will go.

I was more thinking of just hiding Rukia somewhere. And shouldn't he have tried something to prevent her from getting captured in the first place? This would definitely mean he would have less to do with the Seireitei then when he allowed her to get captured and then having to bust in and face the whole goto 13 to get her out. And Yoruichi told him in advance that the Shinigami were coming so he had time to make preperations.

But you are definitely right that this doesn't support my claim in the slightest, and I can't even prove that Urahara was purposefully allowing Rukia to be captured.

No, it was probably planned after he'd left for Seireitei. Kisuke has never been the type of person to callously use people in such a manner. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Kubo uses such a plot point.

-He did send Ichigo to fight Renji and Byakuya and directly admitted that this was for the sole purpose so Ichigo can experience their true strength. Which mean he knew, he would get his ass handed to him.

-He did send him through a training that could have easily killed him, which would have been an especially bad thing to do if, like you assumed, only served to satisfy his own curiosity about Ichigo's strength.

-He used Ichigo to save Rukia despite he wasn't needed to archive this goal and just made things more difficult then they needed to be.

-He didn't told Ichigo about his ties to the Vizards, and that they could help him with his inner hollow.

-He lied to Orihime about his reasons that he wanted her away from the battlefield, saying that a comrade without a sword his only a burden for his comrades instead of just telling her the truth. The truth wouldn't have hurt her at all and otherwise the effects would have been the same.

-And of course, he used Rukia to hide the Hogyoku. His plan would have transformed her permanently into a human, making it forever impossible for her to return to her home.

In short:

Urahara is perfectly capable of using people in such a manner.

Just as illogical as the above, as Kisuke could have had no clue where Ichigo would be, who he would face, and that he would manage to survive.

As I already said above, he had him go through a lethal training that could not only have killed him but also turned him into a hollow.

And he had also no problems to send him after Byakuya and Renji, Two Opponents who could have easily killed him.

In other words: He is perfectly fine with risking Ichigo's life for his plans. Why would it be different in this case?

This doesn't make sense from any angle, as Isshin clearly cares about his son. Ichigo came extremely close to death on multiple occasions prior to his appearance against Grand Fisher's Arrancar form. The current idea, and if I remember correctly has been implied in the manga, is that he had sealed his powers, and un-did this before his first appearance.

I'm not doubting that Isshin cares about Ichigo. And I also know that Isshin didn't have the powers to assist him in combat until recently. I never said anything opposite to that. I talked about Ichigo's fears. You know, when he was afraid to be consumed by a hollow? And since people usually have a reason for what they do, Isshin must have had a reason why he thought it would be better to leave things running by themselves instead of supporting him in any way, which easily qualifies for me as using Ichigo.

Hueco Mundo. And no, this doesn't make sense. Urahara claiming Orihime is useless isn't what got her caught. It wouldn't have mattered if he had revealed that Aizen was keeping an eye on her, because Ulquiorra would have come anyways.

Yes, I was just speculating here about why he decided to harm her feelings despite he had no known reason to do so but I can't prove that he wanted her to get caught and therefore this has nothing to do with how Ichigo has been taken advantage of so it doesn't help my point in the slightest to be honest.

Because it's a 180 of his character. This is akin to implying that throughout Death Note, L was Kira the whole time. It doesn't make sense.

Though I have little doubt it will be revealed sometime as Urahara appears out of nowhere that the reason all the plans went perfectly is because he assisted in having them happen so that instead of being a test subject, Ichigo could be the weapon to finally kill Aizen.

Do you mean 180 of Urahara or Aizen?

I mean Urahara acted definitely like a jerk as established when I listed some of his actions above and Aizen is just a bastard anyway.

There was foreshadowing at a few points of there being a higher thing going on, but there's no way it is as complete. Which is why Aizen's claims are fucking ludicrous and annoying.

Well, I think that some of the holes in the plot were indeed big enough to put Aizen into them, so I don't consider it that silly. But like I wrote at the beginning of this post, I do believe that he just exaggerated there but not that his claim, as cliche as it might be, is directly ridiculous and contradicting.

[Esau of Isaac]

Well, my main reason for using spoiler tags was because I usally end up writing long text.

I didn't mean to say that I actually buy Aizen's claim. (Yes, I did write that but it wasn't what I actually meant. ) Just that Aizen being the answer to questions that have been left suspiciously unanswered so far, is as a rather small surprise and while unoriginal, does by no means "slap the earlier portions of the manga in the dick". I'm just saying that I have little trouble buying Aizen was involved in Ichigo's development, I don't think that he was the gamemaster who could set the rules as he fit, but just the best player on the board who carefully moved a few figures, to push the game into the direction he wanted. I think that claiming he was behind every battle is something that suits him. Exaggerating his own powers, intelligence and planning ability is something he has done before and is therefore in his character. The most blatant example was when he claimed before the battle between his Espada and the Goto 13, that he successfully halved the military strength of the Soul Society. While this was true, it didn't matter at all since the captains trapped in Hueco Mundo killed just as many Espada and therefore he didn't got any kind of advantage out of it, since his own military strength was also halved. This can also be backed up by chapter 249 where Ulquiorra explained in detail how Orihime's feelings were manipulated by Aizen in order to get her to Hueco Mundo. Ulqui concluded that Aizen considers the whole thing a game and doesn't care that much whether things turn out as he expects or not, which makes sense given that he could have just kidnapped her forcefully and be done with it. So Aizen just gets fun out of manipulating people and screwing with their heads and at the moment he is testing this ability on Ichigo.

So I just consider his claims he uses more as exaggerations rather then flat out lies and said claim "I planned all of your battles" just sounds to me like "all your battles that actually mattered" so I don't consider that not being the man behind small fries like the Shrieker contradicts his claim at the core.

I can't agree with all of that. The fact of the matter is that every single event he has ever run into has been part of his plan, and this has been backed up by literally every single event that he has encountered. Being disingenuous in a few of the events that occurred is somewhat debatable, possibly, but any claim that he has made relative to such events has been made true.

I was referring to the fact that he impersonated the Central 46 whose orders the Goto 13 have to follow which allowed him to order Byakuya's squad to deal with that affair. I'm sorry but my text at this point is a bit of a mess since I originally wanted to deal with Ichigos first encounter with those 2 separately to his latter encounters with them but then I ended up merging those parts together.

Okay, that's fair.

Yes, he learned from Ikkaku the name of the strongest ryoka, but he would have tried to track down the strongest of them anyway, and that person would be Ichigo anyway so a battle between the two was likely.

The point is, Gin was irrelevant. If Gin hadn't been there, Ichigo still would have been the primary target after his battle with Ikkaku.

I haven't skipped him, I talked about him in my earlier part about Renji and Byakuya. Well, I will use the opportunity to rephrase this then:

Byakuya is Rukia's brother but he didn't do anything to prevent her from being excecuted and even went as far as to announce that he would do this by his own hands at one point. Since Ichigo cannot stand it if brothers behave like that, it was to be expect that Ichigo would try to beat some sense into him.

This doesn't explain how Aizen manipulated him and Byakuya to meet up multiple times to such a degree, as he stated he planned.

While I'm not sure if it can be considered planning, he clearly excpected parts of the Espada to go against his orders. This can be seen in chapter 255 when Aizen finds out that Szayelaporro Grantz went against his orders and sended the Exequias after Ichigo. Grantz tried to make up an excuse for this but Aizen actually encourages him to keep going, by making clear that he knews his true intentions, but accepts his excuse anyway.

And Grimmjow was guaranteed to go after Ichigo, seeing how the 2 of them engaged in battle a few times already and he even attack Ulqui to get to his pray. Aizen should know Grimmjows behavior good enough to see that he would not miss that opportunity to duke it out with Ichigo.

About Niotra disobeying his orders was not something you could know for sure, but Aizen should know him well enough to at last expect it.

And as Ulqui said it, if things turn out for Aizen as he expects, it is fine. If not it's also fine.

So he doesn't care that much if things turn out exactly as he expects them to do.

But that's not the point; if this were just something he had nudged along throughout the series it would be one thing; the problem is that he's stated everything has gone exactly as he has planned since the very beginning of everything. Everything. Meaning every single outcome of every single battle was all part of his plan. Which is dumb.

Also Aizen could indeed have expected Nell to save Ichigo. He has the habit to know what all of his subordinates doing so he probably knew that Notra took out Nel and she ended up transforming into a child. (And how do you think Niotra explained the disappearance of the 3rd Espada back then? I doubt he could have fooled Aizen.) He also can monitor everything that happens in the area so he could have also known that she accompanied Ichigo and that she might turn back to normal if she is desperate enough, which would be the case if somebody tortured Ichigo. And if Ichigo actually died without his hollow showing up to save him or some other miracle, Aizen might have simply considered him a failed experiment. And it's not like that Ichigo being useless for him would stop him from kicking the Goto 13's ass with his cheap illusion powers and to create the Kingskey thing. As far as his planes are revealed, he doesn't need Ichigo.

He could not have possibly set the plan into motion prior and known exactly what would happen. And there's no way that he could see Ichigo as being a failed experiment, because since this was all a part of his stupid genius plan it couldn't have failed. Ugh.

I'm soory but I don't quite understand this. Are you saying that Aizen could not have known that Ichigo was a Vizard? If so then why wouldn't he?

How could he expect that Ichigo would become a Vizard from his birth? I mean, isn't this why he's been wasting time analyzing him?

I just wanted to point out that Urahara didn't need his help, yet he arranged fights for him, which he knew he couldn't win, like his first one against Renji and Byakuya and gave him a training that could have easily killed him. Anyway, whatever motivations for his actions are, doesn't change that he manipulated him to do what he wanted him to do.

I don't think it was ever stated that Urahara manipulated Ichigo into fighting Byakuya and Renji.

I was more thinking of just hiding Rukia somewhere. And shouldn't he have tried something to prevent her from getting captured in the first place? This would definitely mean he would have less to do with the Seireitei then when he allowed her to get captured and then having to bust in and face the whole goto 13 to get her out. And Yoruichi told him in advance that the Shinigami were coming so he had time to make preperations.

But you are definitely right that this doesn't support my claim in the slightest, and I can't even prove that Urahara was purposefully allowing Rukia to be captured.

I will reply to the rest later.

[Zkirsche]

seems like kubo saw what you wrote, and made it so that the hougyoku caused all the events to happen.

Tbh, though, Aizen probably did only "nudge" things along, as you said and that he's just bullshitting to freak them out.

[Evalcin]

Chapter update: Kisuke appears and seals Aizen's reiastu points in his arms and causing him to be destroyed by his own reiatsu.

Anyone believe Aizen is still alive? :o

[Esau of Isaac]

Chapter update: Kisuke appears and seals Aizen's reiastu points in his arms and causing him to be destroyed by his own reiatsu.

Anyone believe Aizen is still alive? :o

Of course. There's no reason to believe he's dead.

[TheAngelOfDeath]

I'm in love with bleach. Personally it's the best Anime out there. The charactors are so lucious and awesome who wouldn't like the show. I'm only on episode 49 but i really like it.

[Esau of Isaac]

Yeah, well, that's going to downhill when you get to Hueco Mundo.

Such a masterpiece of shonen being destroyed. >__>

[Seph]

Edited May 13, 2010 by Speedwagon

[CGV]

Aizen has turned into a Nobody from Kingdom Hearts 2. If he starts dancing like a nobody, I'm done with Bleach no more clean laundry for me

[bunny: spider bitten]

Eh, this entire arc should have ended about 5 chapters ago. Hell, probably before Isshin showed. Ignoring that, and the pacing, they could have vastly improved it from there.

As it stands, this will seem trivial as is if it's not the final battle and incredibly anti-climatic if it is.

Not that the story isn't obviously pulling for a 'Your corrupted soul leaves you incomplete after your transformation', but more in the sense that, had these three tried this at the start of the fight, it would have made more sense.

That's terrible, nearly inexcusable writing. At least the vizard can blame. . . traffic . . . on the way there.

[BrightBow]

The entire battle had horrible writing from start to finish. It almost seemed to me as if they were trying to loose.

[Seph]

Massive Bleach spoilers.

Gin betrays Aizen.

[James Bond]

Massive Bleach spoilers.

Gin betrays Aizen.

in which episode?Or you read it on the manga?

Edited July 28, 2010 by Tobi

[Seph]

in which episode?Or you read it on the manga?

Manga, on the newest chapter (which hasn't been released yet).

[James Bond]

Manga, on the newest chapter (which hasn't been released yet).

I am not very surprised that he did that

[Anouleth]

Eh, I started watching the anime until it got to the Hueco Mundo arc... but I found it awful by that stage. Soul Society Arc is awesome, but the Espada are quite frankly, boring. Hell, even the Bounto arc was more interesting.

Generally I don't have the patience for a bajillion episodes anyway. The worst part was always the 5 minute long plot recaps at the start of each episode. And the flashbacks. *shudder*

Edited July 28, 2010 by Slowking

[Magna]

Massive Bleach spoilers.

Gin betrays Aizen.

Was already expecting it. The saying: Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.

Besides, I always hoped he was special and diferent. I only keep reading Bleach because of him.

Eh, I started watching the anime until it got to the Hueco Mundo arc... but I found it awful by that stage. Soul Society Arc is awesome, but the Espada are quite frankly, boring. Hell, even the Bounto arc was more interesting.

IMO, you've already seen the best Bleach has to offer. Of the Hueco Mundo Arc, only Grimmjow is somewhat entertaining. After that only some interesting battles in the current manga arc. Nothing more, really.

[Esau of Isaac]

Yeah. Bleach was all the rage when everything was still around the Save Rukia arc. It was like the new goddamn Dragonball Z. And oh look here, Hueco Mundo, man I bet this is going to be interesting to finally see what happ-- FUCK THIS SHIT.

I don't know what they're on, but Kishimoto and Kubo have both gone downhill in quality, whereas One Piece continues to impress me today.

[Seph]

Translation of the spoilers for anyone who's interested:

Ｃ表紙は竹林で白い着物に狐の面を取りながら、こっちをみるギン

Cover pic is Gin in a bamboo thicket wearing a white kimono and taking off a fox mask.

煽りは、キミは此岸、ボクは彼岸━━ほんなら、よろしく頼むわ

The text says, "You are this world. I am nirvana. If it's true then I'll rely on you."

戻ったギン、乱菊のことをきかれると殺しましたと一言。

Gin returns. He's asked about Rangiku and he says he killed her.

確かに、霊圧は消えていると愛染。さらにもうすこし、彼女に情があると思っていたと続ける。

"Certainly her reiatsu has disappeared," says Aizen. "I thought you had a bit more regard for her."

僕は蛇、肌は冷え、情はない、舌先で獲物を探して気にいったやつを丸呑みにする。

"I am a snake, cold blooded, unfeeling, searching for prey with the tip of the tongue, swallowing whole whomever I please."

そういいながら愛染の横を過ぎる。その間もその場から遠ざかろうとするたつきたち。

As he says this he passes by Aizen. During this time Tatsuki and the others try to get far away.

ネズミ捕りは飽きた、殺したら、街の外のみえやすい場所に吊って王鍵創生に取り掛かるろ愛染。

Aizen says he's tired of catching mice. He'll kill them and hang them where they can be easily seen from outside the area, and then begin creating the king's key.

それやったらボクがあの子ら殺しますと抜刀して愛染の刀を抑えながらいう。

"Then I'll kill those kids." Gin draws his sword and restrains Aizen's sword.

すると自分の衣服を目隠しに愛染の胸元を刀で刺すギン。

Then using his own clothes for a blindfold, he stabs Aizen through the chest with his own sword.

鏡花水月から唯一のがれる方法は、完全催眠の発動前から刀に触れておくこと。その一言を聞き出すのに何十年 かかったことやら。

"The only way to escape Kyouka Suigetsu is to touch the sword before perfect hypnotism is invoked. It took decades to learn that."

十三隊の誰一人そのことを知らないのにあなたを倒せる気でいたからハラハラした、殺せるのはボクだけやのに とギン。

"Since nobody in the Gotei 13 knew of that, it was thrilling to feel that I could kill you, that the only one who can kill you was me."

刀が抜かれると同時に出血すう愛染。知っていた、狙いなど知った上で連れていた。どうやって私の命を狙うの か興味があった。

As Aizen extracts the sword blood rushes out. "I knew that you targeted me, so I brought you along. I was fascinated at why you targeted my life."

だがこの程度では殺せないと愛染。するとギンは自分の刀を見せ、刃の真ん中が欠けているの見せ、欠けた部分 を隊長の中に置いてきましたとギン。

"But this is not enough to kill me." Gin looks down at his sword. He shows a part of his blade where a portion is missing. He says he left that portion inside Aizen.

前にボクの能力について説明したけどあれは嘘。言うたほど長く伸びない、言うたほど速く伸びま せん。

"I was lying when I explained my ability before. It doesn't extend as long as I said. And it's not as fast as I said, either."

ただ、伸縮時に一瞬だけ塵になる、そして刃の内側に細胞を溶かし崩す猛毒がありますと続ける。

"Only that when it expands and contracts for an instant it becomes dust. Furthermore, inside the blade is a deadly poison that dissolves the cells. "

刺してから刀を戻すとき、一欠けらだけ塵にして隊長の中に残してきた。

"When the sword was retracted after piercing you, I left a fragment of dust inside of you, Captain.

そして愛染の胸に手を置き、死せ（ころせ）、神死槍と唱える。ギン・・・・貴様・・・・！！！ と愛染。

And so he puts his hand on Aizen's chest. "Die! God Killing Lance" "Gin....you bastard...!!" says Aizen.

胸に孔があいて死ぬんや、本望ですやろ、というと愛染の中のかけらが溶け出したとこで次号。

"A hole will open up in your chest and you'll die. That is my long cherished ambition." As he says this the fragment inside Aizen begins to dissolve. Until next chapter.

[James Bond]

Gin you bastard

[Altera the Hun]

Yeah. Bleach was all the rage when everything was still around the Save Rukia arc. It was like the new goddamn Dragonball Z. And oh look here, Hueco Mundo, man I bet this is going to be interesting to finally see what happ-- FUCK THIS SHIT.

I don't know what they're on, but Kishimoto and Kubo have both gone downhill in quality, whereas One Piece continues to impress me today.

Kubo's probably going into another bout of depression, considering how he's axing so many main characters in a previously Nobody Dies story...

[Dark Sage]

It's heartbreaking for me because I actually liked the Arrancar and I love the hollows. Hollows were my favorite part of Bleach, and now this manga suuuuuuuuuucks.

[aronaldox7]

Bleach is my favorite animated TV series. I always Watch Bleach Episodes online. This is one of the best anime series.

[Zkirsche]

Bleach is like an experiment on soceity: "How long can we troll the readers before they stop reading?"

The main problem with Bleach is that he's made Aizen into too much of a god. There's not much more that can be done to kill the guy that wasn't tried by Gin. If Gin did kill Aizen, and that was it, I probably wouldn't have minded that much, so long as Gon becomes teh next major villain.

Although i have to disagree with what Essau said about One piece and Naruto. Naruto vs the fox was quite interesting, whereas one piece is just boring.

Of the Hueco Mundo Arc, only Grimmjow is somewhat entertaining.

Starrk and pre-H2 Ulquiorra was interesting.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Zwiebel

[Esau of Isaac]

Although i have to disagree with what Essau said about One piece and Naruto. Naruto vs the fox was quite interesting,

Oh please. That fight came out of nowhere, and ended without much explanation in like two chapters. It's one thing for you to have the opinion that this is good (that's not that crazy, even though the fight is anti-climactic bullshit that has been coming for the entire fucking manga), but to then take this and follow it up with:

whereas one piece is just boring.

is just insulting. One Piece built up to the biggest, baddest motherfucking armageddon cage-match from hell with everyone and their goddamn mothers battling left and right. There is no way --no way-- that you can find Naruto's recent plot developments to be better than the last one hundred chapters of One Piece and not be crazy.

Moreover, if you think One Piece is boring, you either haven't read very much One Piece, or you have objectively bad taste. PICK WISELY.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Esau of Isaac