Rodykitty Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) THIS IS THE FINAL TIER LIST. NO MORE CHANGES SHALL BE MADE. Top Tier Abel Arran Astoria Banutu Barst Beck Jake Boa Bord Caesar Cain Castor Catria Cord sucks, but not as much as- Daros Draug Ellis Est Gato George Gordon Hardin High Tier Jeigan Julian Lena Linda Lorenz Mid Tier Maria Marich Marth Mathis Low Tier Midia Minerva Mishelan Nagi Navarre Oguma Paola Radd Ricard Riff Roger Roshe Samson Sedgar Sheeda Shiida Thomas Tiki Tomth/Dolph Bottom Tier Vyland Wendel Wolf Chainey Banned Suggestions Xane Arguing up Etzel if you are not Grandjackal Arguing the tier list at all THIS IS DONE ----- Return of the H5 tier list. Online Shop is allowed, turns using the arena are not counted towards total turn count, use of WiFi Loan Units assumed. Use of map saves are not allowed. Player skill is assumed to be around Colonel M's level. Xane, Beck, and Jake are too hard to tier. Edited April 1, 2010 by FE3 Player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) 1. I see Barst going above both Abel and Cain. Maybe Abel > Cain actually since having a Javelin since chapter 1 > not having it and Cain's got nothing to make up for it. 2. Castor in High tier? WTF? 3. Beck needs to move a bit, possibly higher than Jake. 4. Marth needs to move up. Forged rapier makes him great against chapters with cavaliers no matter what level he is. 5. Elice = 4th warp staff user, Recover staff and Aum staff and comes without the need of level ups. 6. Once again, Maria needs to go down. 7. Jeorge could probably move up a bit, he's doing decent chip damage right off the bat. 8. Cord to up-mid. He makes a decent Merc or Hunter and STR problems can be fixed by reclassing him to Fighter. He's only inferior to Barst due to slightly lower bases and starts with an E rank. 9. Tiki out of bottom tier. She's useful. Edited January 14, 2009 by Levin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Ymir should be at Low/Low-mid. Not sure where, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) Agreed. Low. Definitely not bottom since he has some late game usefulness. Edited January 14, 2009 by Levin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm going to wait until after some discussion is done before the list changes, and I'm going to make sure I'm even allowed to make changes in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Once again I'm going to question why there's a million tiers between Julian and Rickard when they are realistically pretty much the same. Julian has a level lead...and he sucks at combat for longer. And that's about it. I would say Wendel > Gotoh. He's useful for more maps, and he has no existence issues (24x means no Gotoh). He can stay as a staff using filler for pretty long, especially if you don't do gaidens. Bottom tier seems rather oversized. Not sure what Minerva is doing there, but I haven't really looked into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) I'm going to go ahead and make some changes. If BB or anyone else disagrees, and has good reason, they can be undone. 1. Wendell > Gotoh, no question about that. 2. Julian moved down a couple of slots, but not out of his tier (yet). Rickard moved into Low tier, because Julian's durability is already questionable, and Rickard's HP and Defense is significantly worse. 3. Marth moved to the top of high. 4. Ymir moved to Low-Mid tier, below Paola. 5. Made more changes than actually asked for, but both Elice and Boah are in Low tier now, and Etzel got bumped into Bottom tier in comparison. 6. Minerva moved to Low-mid. She has the means to be some extra help and isn't a complete failure. 7. Tiki in Low tier now. 8. Unsure about the top tier cast. A lot of comparison between them gets down into nitty gritty, nitpicky specifics, so I'm leaving them like that for now until after the inevitable heated discussion is done. Keep in mind that changes can still be made. I updated the first post to reflect the changes. Edited January 14, 2009 by FE3 Player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Are you sure about Merric in Clint Eastwood? Even if he gets all the Spirit Dusts, he's hands down the least durable dude up there except for Rena. - If Barst as Merc will affect his position at all Try seeing Barst as a Merc as some sort of stat booster that pretty much everyone in that class set wants. Actually, it should be seen like that for everyone, including Oguma, Wolf, Zagarro, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Why did Etzel move to bottom tier? He's better than Boah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) Why did Etzel move to bottom tier? He's better than Boah.Doesn't have an auto-C in staves, though you're right, the gap isn't big enough to warrant a whole tier difference.Are you sure about Merric in Clint Eastwood? Even if he gets all the Spirit Dusts, he's hands down the least durable dude up there except for Rena.Putting him in top of top tier, but leaving Sedgar and Xane in their own tier.Try seeing Barst as a Merc as some sort of stat booster that pretty much everyone in that class set wants. Actually, it should be seen like that for everyone, including Oguma, Wolf, Zagarro, etc.Okay. That's enough reason for me to keep him where he is until further debate happens.I also want to take usefulness as a different class into account as well, not just Merc. Ex: Even if he doesn't take Merc, he can still do things a Merc can't, such as Hand Axe and judge Barst as an overall very solid unit (since overall solid units tend to be great no matter what their class). Edited January 14, 2009 by FE3 Player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Just a question, why is Shiida so high up? She seems rather weak. I haven't played much on H5 but I just want to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Just a question, why is Shiida so high up? She seems rather weak.She can actually double and Wing Spear puts her damage output higher than other units, and doesn't have to be leveled up for it. She's an instant gratification unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) 4. Ymir moved to Low-Mid tier, below Paola. Low is already pushing it since he's not doubling jack shit here. No way not doubling anything ever qualifies you for low mid. 6. Minerva moved to Low-mid. She has the means to be some extra help and isn't a complete failure. ...On this mode? Yeah, she IS a complete failure, actually. Won't double crap, dies in two hits, and deals rather meh damage even with Hauteclere. Also, Ricardo really should be bottom. He's just helpless now. Castor in High tier? WTF? He's ranged, and can have some lategame use due to good offense and move [9 move keeps lets him move in and out of danger rather easily] maybe high is pushing it, but he's at least a tier up on Captain Gordin. EDIT 2: Beck above Jake? whut? Jake has higher atk and hit, stats that actually matter for ballistas [especially the hit], plus a level lead. Edited January 14, 2009 by Berserkah2DaBladah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) Dolph =/= Bottom tier. He has potential in H5 despite the fact that he comes in chapter 12. C rank Lances as AK means Ridersbane usage. Like Cord, he makes a decent Merc, Hunter and Fighter unpromoted and still a decent General after promotion. He's ranged, and can have some lategame use due to good offense and move [9 move keeps lets him move in and out of danger rather easily] maybe high is pushing it, but he's at least a tier up on Captain Gordin. Above Gordin yes. But Gordin and Castor are mostly useful for like the first 3 chapters. Castor's growths and bases are quite troublesome and often result in poor progress, Dark Mage Draug or Mage Sheeda can make a better chip damage unit than Hunter Castor. Hell, I'll take a Generic Hunter over Castor since those have always been better than a lvl 4 or 5 Castor. Edited January 14, 2009 by Levin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Minerva and Ymir are back in low for now. Not changing Castor's position since he's currently being argued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) EDIT 2:Beck above Jake? whut? Jake has higher atk and hit, stats that actually matter for ballistas [especially the hit], plus a level lead. Yes, Beck above Jake. I dunno how you get that Jake has higher ATK and HIT than beck when: http://serenesforest.net/fe11/average/beck.html http://serenesforest.net/fe11/average/jake.html Beck has better STR than Jake and their STR ties at lvl 21 >_>. Beck has better SKL than Jake till lvl 16, not to mention that his LCK lead is also helping his hit. Beck >>> Jake. Jake's slightly earlier join time isn't gonna help him and even with 1 level up he's still inferior to base Beck. Edited January 14, 2009 by Levin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Yeah, Shooters definitely enjoy more hit, which is what Beck has more of, and isn't weaker. I'm convinced that Beck and Jake should swap, which I just did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 But Beck isn't ohno locked to a cliff in his joining chapter!!!!! (but he can actually use Thunderbolts on that map so whatever) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) Dolph =/= Bottom tier. He has potential in H5 despite the fact that he comes in chapter 12. C rank Lances as AK means Ridersbane usage. You also have to go way out of your way to keep him alive. Medea and pals are where they are for a reason. Vyland probably wouldn't be where he is, either, if it wasn't such a pain in the you know what to NOT get him killed. Edited January 14, 2009 by Berserkah2DaBladah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Cord>Castor Although Castor gets to use bows in C2, a C4 comparision: Castor (Lvl 4): 21 HP/7 Str/6 AS/7 Avd/2 Crit/4 Def Cord (Lvl 3 with one Level as Fighter): 19 HP/9 Str/8 AS/10 Avd/4 Crit/5 Def K, so Castor wins 2 HP, and loses everything else. He could pull out the Steel Bow for a 1 lead in Atk, but he'll still lose AS and Def (Cord can double armours thanks to his AS). Moving forward to Chapter 10ish. Castor (Lvl 12) (C Marth): 25 HP/11 Str/10 AS/17 Avd/3 Crit/6 Def Cord (Lvl 12) (C Marth, C Ogma, C Barst): 22 HP/11 Str/13 AS/32 Avd/5 Crit/7 Def So now Castor has a 3 HP lead, but now Cord is just plain owning Castor. 3 AS/15 Avd/2 Crit/1 Def advantage for Cord. His Avd lead isn't significant enough yet, but his AS lets him double a few more enemies. Shiida's use is diminishing around now, so Castor probably won't get her C support. Lets fastforward to just before promotion. Lets say....Chapter 17? Castor (20/1 General) (B Marth): 38 HP/16 Atk/11 AS/24 Avd/4 Crit/19 Def/ Castor (20/1 Horseman) (B Marth): 30 HP/14 Atk/15 AS/28 Avd/6 Crit/10 Def Cord (20/1 General) (A Ogma), (B Marth), (B Barst): 36 HP/16 Atk/16 AS/52 Avd/10 Crit/20 Def LOL. Except for losing by 2 HP to General Castor, Cord beats, ties, or demolishes Castor in every stat. As a matter of fact: Hardain (20/4 Paladin) (B Marth): 37 HP/16 Atk/18 AS/32 Avd/9 Crit/12 Def And this is a TOP tier character (PS: Not arguing Cord above Hardain. Just making a point). Hardain has 1 Hp and 2 AS. Cord has 20 Avoid, and 8 Defense. Hardain has move, but characters should stick together on H5. Chapter 22 to wrap things up. With Silver Lances: Castor (20/9 General) (A Marth): 43 HP/32 Atk/12 AS/26 Avd/11 Crit/23 Def Cord (20/9): (A Marth/Ogma/Barst): 40 HP/31 Atk/18 AS/55 Avd/21 Crit/23 Def To put Cord's durabilty into perspective: The only enemies that don't tink him are Paladins (3 Dmg), Wyverns (2 Dmg), and the boss (6 dmg). And those enemies have 39/34/35 Hit on him. And Cord doesn't get doubled. In conclusion, Cord's doing better then Castor in every chapter, but 2 and 3 (due to no class swap then), and should be moved up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) You also have to go way out of your way to keep him alive. Medea and pals are where they are for a reason.Vyland probably wouldn't be where he is, either, if it wasn't such a pain in the you know what to NOT get him killed. A. Warp staff and good units will allow you to save Medea and pals. "Keep all units alive including Medea and pals" playthrough is possible. B. You can save 2 people without effort since there's 2 spots in their cell that won't ever be attacked. Now let's see, who should get these spots... Thomas? LOL NO Macellan? LOL no, he's inferior to Dolph Midia? Maybe if you're hellbent on getting Astria... but then why would you want Astria when killing him nets you EXP and you don't miss out on his Wyrmslayer? Boah? Possibly for that C rank on staff he has. Dolph? Yes. Again, he's better than Palla (more so in H5 since Palla's MOV lead doesn't mean much in H5 since your units have to be close together) , is easy to train as a Knight due to his C rank on Lances and decent speed growth that could help him as other classes. Through class swap his stats are actually comparable to Catria's at 20/0 and he comes earlier. Edited January 14, 2009 by Levin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Moved Dolph into Low-mid tier for right now, since I can agree he definitely isn't bottom tier material, but join time still hurts him quite a bit, as well as other small factors I considered in my head. He could move up or down from this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 What about Cord? *points to arguement on 1st page* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Ah, sorry. I saw your post and was expecting a huge argument to stem from it (my plan was to let arguments happen before deciding so that it would be easier to find where to place them, but nobody's really arguing so I'll just make changes and hope people disagree with small issues in order to make the tier list more accurate.) I'll put Cord where Castor is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Not moving Maria and Barst? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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