grandjackal Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 Seriously, how the hell can anything be worse than this? Wendy is like Fiona only you really can't make her good because she doesn't have Fiona's good parts, just the suck. I can baby Fa as much as I babied Wendy to be good and make Fa look like a damn goddess.And quit bitching over "lol30 uses." At least 20 of those are better than Wendy's epic fail. I will bitch about 20 uses, because babying her requires eating away at her only weapon. We're training her to essentially be good against one type of enemy while Wendy can be trained to be good against everything else. Hell, Wendy can do her job anyways with Malte. Wendy's accuracy at first may be bad, but she can at least survive some things, Fa is killed by ANYTHING that looks at her funny. Can't counter range either. I'd take bad accuracy over being killed by everything any day. If Wendy is Fiona, Fa must....suck, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 You seem to be under the impression that we're "training" Fa just for her to be good in the end. Wrong: she's contributing as a glass cannon from the moment she exists. And against magic, she isn't even a glass cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) You disappoint me Jackal. Everything else doesn't exist because you said so, right? You're ignoring the fact that ANYTHING that can attack Fa can effectively kill her, while it seems Wendy starts and eventually maintains a durability lead! Thanks for saying not everything kills Wendy. Guess that makes it a LOT easier to baby her than Fa, especially since Wendy has...ya know...other weapons than the ones she starts with. The bolded is bullshit and the rest is just hype and more bullshit. Let's take a look at Fa's starting statistics. 16 HP 30 ATK 131 Hit 3 AS 17 DEF 26 RES 21 Crit 20+ damage to most enemies that aren't armors with 89 displayed hit being the lowest we'll see see and this is against a freaking Merc (9 less if you wanna throw in Narshen) and this is assuming she hasn't even leveled up, which she will easy with 2 good uses of her divine stone. Compare this to Wendy who's seeing 40% hit against Axe users and not leveling as fast as her. Now how are the enemies doing against her? It takes a Merc of 25 ATK to 1 round her and this would be the strongest and uncommon. 1 HP level up solves this and her HP growth is... 130%. For an Armor to 1RKO her, they'd need 33 ATK. Good luck finding one of these. Mages... unless Aircalibur's effective against Fa, they're ALL doing 0 damage. Fighters... these along with the promotes are her only threat on the enemy phase but she hits the Fighters hard (24-25 damage with 100% accuracy) on the player phase. Wendy's low hit % would result in missing quite often and slow level ups so to baby her, you'd have to waste many turns. I don't recall wasting turns being efficient. With Fa, you don't need to waste turns and her 5 MOV is easier to work with than Wendy's 4. The babying Wendy needs to be anything is NEVER compensated for her failure output. It's like walking a freaking desert while holding a pile of shit. Edited June 11, 2009 by Sirius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) You seem to be under the impression that we're "training" Fa just for her to be good in the end. Wrong: she's contributing as a glass cannon from the moment she exists. And against magic, she isn't even a glass cannon. One that dies if it misses, due to being stuck in melee. Even when "trained up", she's still not even that great against the thing she was meant to kill. Can't even let her get targeted. As for mages, when do we really need a magic tank? Would be great if sniper magic targeted her for some bizarre reason, but they don't. I think we can get by just killing them, rather than Fa...not killing them. At least I have a bit of survival leeway with Wendy. Finally, someone actually shows actual statistics. Very well then Sirius, she's above her now. Edited June 11, 2009 by Kuja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Also, doesn't the Divinestone gain bonuses on Wyvern Knights? So... wouldn't she do a fuckton to Narshen anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Also, doesn't the Divinestone gain bonuses on Wyvern Knights? So... wouldn't she do a fuckton to Narshen anyway? It doesn't. Only against Manaketes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 You'd figure with every other dragon effective weapon destroying them, that this would work too. Might have made Fa a LOT more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Roy's Sword of Seals isn't super effective against them either for some stupid reason. Anyway lol at complaining about 89% hit being low then suggesting Wendy has 1-2 range. Have fun getting 1 EXP half the time. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 That depends on exactly when she starts using it. OJ gives her full hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 It's a 10 +2 support, so 25 turns to C, 55 turns to B. Wendy needs hit immediately (i.e. before chapter 12), so that changes her 40 hit with a Javelin to a 45 hit. Wow. Her hit, damage, and movement problems are bad. To steal kills, Wendy might have to keep up with units that have almost twice as much move as she does. With 40% strength growth and no hope of doubling enemies anytime soon, even against defensively challenged axe users she has to improve on something ridiculous like a 6-7HKO (this also means that Wendy even has difficulty finishing an enemy). And then, when she does get that chance to finish off an enemy, she gets either 40% displayed with Javelin or 55% displayed with iron. If either misses, that's 1 EXP instead of like 50, and in the latter case Wendy requires the attention of a healer and forces the team to slow down. Or we can switch to slim for 65% displayed hit and 2 damage... Let's go chapter by chapter. Chapter 8: Wendy doesn't keep up. I guess she can get EXP off the reinforcements from the northwest. Chapter 8x: the only accessible enemies are the ones to the west, and they all 2RKO her minimum. Chapter 9: aside from the numerous chokepoints that yell "stop!" to units with low move, enemies near the starting point (2 pirates) are not easy picking for Wendy. Chapter 10E: there are two main groups of enemies here. Fighters with Hand Axes 1RKO Wendy (22 atk, 8 AS), everything else is a 2RKO. It's interesting to point out that even with WTA, Wendy still has like 45 hit against mercs with Javelin. Let's not forget about the ballista on this map (19 atk), who cuts Wendy's HP to the point where everything does 1RKO her. Chapter 11E: can't keep up. Why would you want to deploy Wendy on this map? Chapter 12: either fight 3 enemies on the right side or get raped in the corridors on the left (or if you don't, get raped by the fighters at the end). After the first 6 chapters in which Wendy is present, I wouldn't even put her at level 10. Simply saying "but we can baby Wendy" is understating how difficult it is to baby her. Except the vast majority of your magic users. Which ones? Lugh won't have 16 magic to do comparable damage with Elfire and no one else will have 14 AS to double them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martelé Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 That depends on exactly when she starts using it.OJ gives her full hit She obviously wants the 2-range as early as possible because her durability blows. And Oujay is a mediocre unit, he's not always in play. Anyway, I just wanted to say that the FE6 stats are offline for a while. I'm very sorry for that but I'll try to fix it soon, maybe they're back this weekend or next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Lots of stuff. I don't have a problem with this. Good job. One small thing though: you can try to carry Wendy around with someone else to compensate for the move especially at the beginning of a chapter but it becomes a hassle later. It helps some but doesn't really change anything I guess. Which ones? Lugh won't have 16 magic to do comparable damage with Elfire and no one else will have 14 AS to double them. I assumed Lugh and the healers to be 20/1 by chapter 15 which is what I assumed you were talking about. Lugh, Ellen, Saul and Clarine can then double. Lugh will do more damage if supported while supported Ellen, Saul and especially Clarine will do somewhat less. And Oujay is a mediocre unit, he's not always in play. I have a problem with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) I don't have a problem with this. Good job. One small thing though: you can try to carry Wendy around with someone else to compensate for the move especially at the beginning of a chapter but it becomes a hassle later. It helps some but doesn't really change anything I guess. That means I have to gimp one of my units just to get Wendy to enemies faster. No thank you. Edited June 11, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 That means I have to gimp one of my units just to get Wendy to enemies faster. No thank you. How on earth are you gimping anything if at start you pick her up and drop her before you approach the enemies? There aren't that many long range attackers around the beginning of chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Let me just clarify that I wasn't necessarily trying to argue that OJ support made her better than Fa or not. I just felt it was worth mentioning that it can do something for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I don't have a problem with this. Good job. One small thing though: you can try to carry Wendy around with someone else to compensate for the move especially at the beginning of a chapter but it becomes a hassle later. It helps some but doesn't really change anything I guess. How on earth are you gimping anything if at start you pick her up and drop her before you approach the enemies? There aren't that many long range attackers around the beginning of chapters. Once you get to the enemies, the unit carrying Wendy has to drop her, and that removes its ability to attack. I agree that it can be worked around, but it's a lot of effort just so Wendy gets one extra chance to hit an enemy less than half the time. I assumed Lugh and the healers to be 20/1 by chapter 15 which is what I assumed you were talking about. Lugh, Ellen, Saul and Clarine can then double. Lugh will do more damage if supported while supported Ellen, Saul and especially Clarine will do somewhat less. I don't assume any of them to be promoted. Lugh comes closest to 27 damage but they're all still way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 So uh... someone explain to me why Percival went all the way back down again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 So uh... someone explain to me why Percival went all the way back down again? Because the extra Rarum made it seem like he was lower than he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 How many times have I shown why Percival > Echidna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 How many times have I shown why Percival > Echidna? Oh yeah! *ahem* Pardon me ^^;; 'Tis bad memory. Dammit, thought I could get away with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Silly Jackal. Anyway, Fa needs to get out of Graveyard Tier. Why's Yunno better than her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Silly Jackal. Anyway, Fa needs to get out of Graveyard Tier. Why's Yunno better than her? *rubs temples* Not Fa again... Yunno's above her due to being last ditch support (anima is awesome), flight utility, can at least be a wall if equipped with light weapons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) *rubs temples* Not Fa again...Yunno's above her due to being last ditch support (anima is awesome), flight utility, can at least be a wall if equipped with light weapons... Yes Fa again. I doubt all that makes up for the shit that she is but unfortunately, the site with the enemy stats is currently down and I'm too lazy to do a warp playthrough just to get them again (and then there's yet more Soren sandbagging that I must read even though I've read it several times)... You're safe for now. Edited June 15, 2009 by Sirius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martelé Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Enemy stats are back. And about Yuno/Fa, here's the enemies Yuno doubles w/Iron Lance: - berserkers (2x6 damage, 5RKO) - steel bow archers (2x7 damage, 3RKO) - shamans (13x2 damage, 2RKO) - knights/generals (tinks) - wyverns w/14 speed + steel lance (2x3 damage, 8RKO) - mamkutes (tinks) Obviously her offense is even worse against everything else since she doesn't double. Fa doesn't double either but her base atk is 30 and her strength growth is 90%, so she does have offense. I guess Juno wins durability for a while since both are 2RKOd by most things (Fa wins against low Atk enemies) but she has higher avoid. It's still far from reliable, though. Mamkutes in chapter 24 OHKO her until Lv 11 if she's not supported (the 17 str ones until Lv12 and the 19 str ones until lv 15) and none of them onerounds Lv 10 Fa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Yes... but I mean the Dancers > Both of them. I don't care if Echinda > Percival, I'm wondering why the Dancers are above both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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