FE4 THREAD

[Roxas]

7 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Ultimate?

bro the Official Ultima Super Battle Cruise Fortress Topic Deluxe!

[NoNameAtAll]

Ultima can't eat the thread. It would explode.

[♠Soul♠]

Ultima shall eat it once more.

[Acacia Sgt]

Oh lol, I just got it was that other thread.

[NoNameAtAll]

Yeah. But nah, it won't happen.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Is this the thread to complain about FE4? I'm here to complain about the Manster District. It makes no sense. The Manster District should be Castle Manster and the surrounding territory, right? So Northern Thracia has four districts: the Manster District, the Leonster District, the Alster District, and the Conote District. Except nope, fuck that, apparently the Manster District is the whole thing! What kind of sense does that make? Even if we accept that Manster is the administrative capital of Northern Thracia, it's still like calling Grannvale "the Belhalla District". No, the "Belhalla District" is the area immediately surrounding Castle Belhalla.

TL;DR: Saying "Manster District" to refer to all of Northern Thracia is cringe, ambiguous, and often Leifphobic in context. Please just call it Northern Thracia.

[NoNameAtAll]

Wow. An actual Jugdral inquiry!

[Acacia Sgt]

On 5/5/2022 at 6:02 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Is this the thread to complain about FE4? I'm here to complain about the Manster District. It makes no sense. The Manster District should be Castle Manster and the surrounding territory, right? So Northern Thracia has four districts: the Manster District, the Leonster District, the Alster District, and the Conote District. Except nope, fuck that, apparently the Manster District is the whole thing! What kind of sense does that make? Even if we accept that Manster is the administrative capital of Northern Thracia, it's still like calling Grannvale "the Belhalla District". No, the "Belhalla District" is the area immediately surrounding Castle Belhalla.

TL;DR: Saying "Manster District" to refer to all of Northern Thracia is cringe, ambiguous, and often Leifphobic in context. Please just call it Northern Thracia.

Well, it depends.

When do we first hear it being called a District? Because if it's during Gen 2... then yes, it's the Grannvale Empire's Manster District. Just like how we also have Miletos District. At least checking over, we don't get to see Manster or Miletos on the world map during Gen 1. Granted, they're called Districts on the map, but that's likely because it's just the one picture used all game long and we don't see those parts until after being annexed by Grannvale. But if there's a mention of District during Gen 1... then yes, that'd be strange.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, it depends.

When do we first hear it being called a District? Because if it's during Gen 2... then yes, it's the Grannvale Empire's Manster District. Just like how we also have Miletos District. At least checking over, we don't get to see Manster or Miletos on the world map during Gen 1. Granted, they're called Districts on the map, but that's likely because it's just the one picture used all game long and we don't see those parts until after being annexed by Grannvale. But if there's a mention of District during Gen 1... then yes, that'd be strange.

It could conceivably make sense, a la Miletos District, if it were administered from Manster. But as of FE4, it's... not, really? Blume is in charge of the District, and we first fight him at Ulster. Then he retreats to Conote, where he is killed by Seliph's Army. Hell, we never even fight any enemy troops out of Castle Manster. If Manster were the "capital" of the District, and Blume its governor, then it would've been logical for him to flee to Manster, not Conote.

Thracia 776 turns this on its head by giving Manster and the Magi a much bigger presence, with Raydrik (you know, the guy who didn't exist in FE4) functionally administering it. And by having Leif and friends head there at the end, rather than partnering with Seliph to take on Conote.

As for the Miletos District, my interpretation is, that whole region is called "Miletos". This includes the land on which Castles Peruluke, Rados, and Chronos sit. Compare to Isaach - there's a Castle Isaach, but Castles Tirnanog, Sophara, Ganeishire, and Rivough are all part of the Kingdom of Isaach as well. Contrast with the "Manster District" - Castles Leonster, Ulster, and Conote aren't on Manster territory. "Leonster" isn't a part of "Manster"; instead, they're both distinct counties in Northern Thracia.

That's the problem with the name "Manster District" - it includes areas that are definitively not "Manster", in a way that may-or-may-not be true of "Miletos District", and certainly isn't true of Kingdoms such as Isaach and Verdane.

7 hours ago, NoNameAtAll said:

Wow. An actual Jugdral inquiry!

Forgive me, Kaga, for I have sinned.

[Acacia Sgt]

22 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It could conceivably make sense, a la Miletos District, if it were administered from Manster. But as of FE4, it's... not, really? Blume is in charge of the District, and we first fight him at Ulster. Then he retreats to Conote, where he is killed by Seliph's Army. Hell, we never even fight any enemy troops out of Castle Manster. If Manster were the "capital" of the District, and Blume its governor, then it would've been logical for him to flee to Manster, not Conote.

Thracia 776 turns this on its head by giving Manster and the Magi a much bigger presence, with Raydrik (you know, the guy who didn't exist in FE4) functionally administering it. And by having Leif and friends head there at the end, rather than partnering with Seliph to take on Conote.

As for the Miletos District, my interpretation is, that whole region is called "Miletos". This includes the land on which Castles Peruluke, Rados, and Chronos sit. Compare to Isaach - there's a Castle Isaach, but Castles Tirnanog, Sophara, Ganeishire, and Rivough are all part of the Kingdom of Isaach as well. Contrast with the "Manster District" - Castles Leonster, Ulster, and Conote aren't on Manster territory. "Leonster" isn't a part of "Manster"; instead, they're both distinct counties in Northern Thracia.

That's the problem with the name "Manster District" - it includes areas that are definitively not "Manster", in a way that may-or-may-not be true of "Miletos District", and certainly isn't true of Kingdoms such as Isaach and Verdane.

Again, it depends on when we first see the term "Manster District" in use. Previous Grannvale's invasion, Northern Thracia was composed of the four independent kingdoms. They weren't a single entity, and indeed, as I go through the scripts, it's never called as anything but northern Thracia, but certainly had a defensive pact or alliance between them going on. Then Grannvale takes over Ulster, before then taking over the rest of the kingdoms. As per Genealogy's Chapter 8 narration, they designated the area as "Kingdom of Northern Thracia", though "Manster District" was also used by the characters when referring to the place. Ulster was designated as the capital of Northern Thracia. As far as I know, Manster District is only ever used from Gen 2 onwards.

Yes, it might seem weird to use Manster if it's not the capital, but then the same happened to Miletos. Hilda reigns from Chronos Castle, not Miletos Castle. Though for its worth, Chrono is a more central location, so perhaps she chose it for logistical reasons. As for why Ulster, other than being the first kingdom that was conquered, it's also the one closest to the core Grannvale region. In a time where travel between distances is vast, even if flying mounts exist, it's also perhaps logistical sense for Ulster to be the designated capital. To bring a real life situation, I live in a state capital that became such precisely because it was the only major city with easy access to the rest of the country, at least land-wise. Before that previous capitals were the actual major cities, before ending transferred to where it is now.

Point is, capitals may change, but names do not. My country also has a different state who shares the name of a city... but the city is not the capital. Well, it used to be, but the point is the state didn't need to be renamed just because the same-name city was no longer the capital. Though this could apply more to Miletos than Manster.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

9 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Again, it depends on when we first see the term "Manster District" in use. Previous Grannvale's invasion, Northern Thracia was composed of the four independent kingdoms. They weren't a single entity, and indeed, as I go through the scripts, it's never called as anything but northern Thracia, but certainly had a defensive pact or alliance between them going on. Then Grannvale takes over Ulster, before then taking over the rest of the kingdoms. As per Genealogy's Chapter 8 narration, they designated the area as "Kingdom of Northern Thracia", though "Manster District" was also used by the characters when referring to the place. Ulster was designated as the capital of Northern Thracia. As far as I know, Manster District is only ever used from Gen 2 onwards.

Truthfully I think "Kingdom of Northern Thracia" is a better name, even though it suggests a degree of autonomy that isn't there. I'd have gone with something like "District of North Thracia", or simply "The Four Counties". If Ulster was the capital, then calling it the "Manster District" makes even less sense. Why not the "Ulster District", or the "Leonster District"? Hell, even "Friegelandia" would be a better name - it'd be an obvious exonym borne out of Blume's arrogance, but at least it doesn't equate a "part" with the "whole".

10 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yes, it might seem weird to use Manster if it's not the capital, but then the same happened to Miletos. Hilda reigns from Chronos Castle, not Miletos Castle. Though for its worth, Chrono is a more central location, so perhaps she chose it for logistical reasons. As for why Ulster, other than being the first kingdom that was conquered, it's also the one closest to the core Grannvale region. In a time where travel between distances is vast, even if flying mounts exist, it's also perhaps logistical sense for Ulster to be the designated capital. To bring a real life situation, I live in a state capital that became such precisely because it was the only major city with easy access to the rest of the country, at least land-wise. Before that previous capitals were the actual major cities, before ending transferred to where it is now.

Fair point re: Chronos. But, isn't Isaach like that, too? Danann uses Castle Rivough, not Castle Isaach, as his base of operations. It's still the Kingdom of Isaach because of history, though (unless it got a different name under Grannvale's administration). So it's plausible, even though Hilda rules from Castle Chronos, that the whole region was previously known as "Miletos". Alternatively, it's possible the name "Miletos" only referred to Castle Miletos and the immediate surroundings (like "Manster"), before arbitrarily being chosen to refer to the whole region. We don't know, as Miletos District is perhaps the least threshed-out part of the continent (well, maybe after Orgahill).

[Acacia Sgt]

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Truthfully I think "Kingdom of Northern Thracia" is a better name, even though it suggests a degree of autonomy that isn't there. I'd have gone with something like "District of North Thracia", or simply "The Four Counties". If Ulster was the capital, then calling it the "Manster District" makes even less sense. Why not the "Ulster District", or the "Leonster District"? Hell, even "Friegelandia" would be a better name - it'd be an obvious exonym borne out of Blume's arrogance, but at least it doesn't equate a "part" with the "whole".

Fair point re: Chronos. But, isn't Isaach like that, too? Danann uses Castle Rivough, not Castle Isaach, as his base of operations. It's still the Kingdom of Isaach because of history, though (unless it got a different name under Grannvale's administration). So it's plausible, even though Hilda rules from Castle Chronos, that the whole region was previously known as "Miletos". Alternatively, it's possible the name "Miletos" only referred to Castle Miletos and the immediate surroundings (like "Manster"), before arbitrarily being chosen to refer to the whole region. We don't know, as Miletos District is perhaps the least threshed-out part of the continent (well, maybe after Orgahill).

Well, it's hierarchical. Grannvale is an Empire, so it rules over several Kingdoms under its name. Historically it happened. The Carolingian Empire, for example, included the Kingdoms of Burgundy and Italy under its domain... and yes, they had some degree of autonomy even if they still answered to their liege to some extent. This can be why Dannan is King of Isaach, Blume King of Northern Thracia, and Hilda is Queen of Miletos, even if they still served under Emperor Arvis. They have some autonomous hold over their lands, but still must answer to the Empire back in Grannvale.

Why not? The realm doesn't have to share the name of the capital. Or the realm has to be renamed if the capital changes. Other than the example I gave, you also have New York. When the capital was changed from New York City to Albany, the state wasn't renamed to Albany. It remained New York. Same thing happened to Isaach and probably Miletos. There was no need to rename the lands. Rivough as capital is likely on the same logic as Ulster being the capital: Proximity to Grannvale. Ganesheire is already stated to be remote, even within Isaach proper. So Rivough as the capital was a decision to be easier and faster to contact Grannvale.

Well, we don't actually know if Miletos was really the capital of the area. The narration of Chapter 10, at least, seems to refer to the entire region as Miletos, not just Miletos Castle. But yeah, we don't really know much about Miletos other than it being quite possibly a merchant republic, like Carcino in Magvel. Orgahill does have the whole Tower of Braggi thing, which was fleshed out in supplemental material.

 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

30 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Why not? The realm doesn't have to share the name of the capital. Or the realm has to be renamed if the capital changes. Other than the example I gave, you also have New York. When the capital was changed from New York City to Albany, the state wasn't renamed to Albany. It remained New York. Same thing happened to Isaach and probably Miletos. There was no need to rename the lands. Rivough as capital is likely on the same logic as Ulster being the capital: Proximity to Grannvale. Ganesheire is already stated to be remote, even within Isaach proper. So Rivough as the capital was a decision to be easier and faster to contact Grannvale.

Exactly! So, why do the other counties of Northern Thracia get renamed as though they're part of Manster? Renaming "Northern Thracia" to the "Manster District" makes no sense. That's my point.

You're probably right about the capitals being decided based on proximity to Grannvale. Miletos District is an exception, though, since Castle Miletos is accessible from Chalphy at north (once the bridge shows up).

[Acacia Sgt]

30 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Exactly! So, why do the other counties of Northern Thracia get renamed as though they're part of Manster? Renaming "Northern Thracia" to the "Manster District" makes no sense. That's my point.

You're probably right about the capitals being decided based on proximity to Grannvale. Miletos District is an exception, though, since Castle Miletos is accessible from Chalphy at north (once the bridge shows up).

Curiously, after trying to go through both games' scripts... Munster District is only used on the in-game maps, and in one single Talk Convo in Genealogy between Febail and Lana (else their substitutes). Every other time they just call the region Northern Tracia instead. The only other times I've seen District used is in the Leonster's Fall Designer's Note.

Now, mind, the Kanji they use, 地方, while it can mean "District", it can also mean "Region" or "Area". It's very possible that that's what the place is meant to be called, but because they used District for the in-game maps (which are in English even in Japan), it gave the idea of using District, and thus the fan translations (or the early ones at least), also went with District to align with the maps. So it might just be an error perpetuated for years.

It can be a sign that Hilda does things different. Alternatively, Miletos isn't as far from Grannvale as Isaach and Northern Tracia are. Since for the latter two you must cross the desert, and it also is a long trip by sea. So there's no need to physically put the capital as close, thus, better put it in a central position to administer the region itself better. With Isaach and Northern Thracia we certainly see the problem of not having a central capital, after all, with Seliph and Leif able to live in peace for a time on the fringes of Grannvale's reach.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Curiously, after trying to go through both games' scripts... Munster District is only used on the in-game maps, and in one single Talk Convo in Genealogy between Febail and Lana (else their substitutes). Every other time they just call the region Northern Tracia instead. The only other times I've seen District used is in the Leonster's Fall Designer's Note.

Now, mind, the Kanji they use, 地方, while it can mean "District", it can also mean "Region" or "Area". It's very possible that that's what the place is meant to be called, but because they used District for the in-game maps (which are in English even in Japan), it gave the idea of using District, and thus the fan translations (or the early ones at least), also went with District to align with the maps. So it might just be an error perpetuated for years.

It can be a sign that Hilda does things different. Alternatively, Miletos isn't as far from Grannvale as Isaach and Northern Tracia are. Since for the latter two you must cross the desert, and it also is a long trip by sea. So there's no need to physically put the capital as close, thus, better put it in a central position to administer the region itself better. With Isaach and Northern Thracia we certainly see the problem of not having a central capital, after all, with Seliph and Leif able to live in peace for a time on the fringes of Grannvale's reach.

Interesting bit of information! I really thought "Manster District" would have been referred to more, but I guess not. It makes sense that the fanslation would go with the original translation, even if some of the in-game translation from Japanese are... questionable. The term "District" itself is fairly ambiguous - is it bigger than a kingdom, smaller than a county, or in-between? It depends on context.

Still think "Kingdom of Northern Thracia" or "Four Counties" would've made more sense on the world map. Guess that's neither here nor there.

[NoNameAtAll]

On 5/6/2022 at 10:55 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Forgive me, Kaga, for I have sinned.

I assure you that I meant this as legitimate shock. It's been that long since I recall seeing actual FE4 talk here in any way lol.

[Acacia Sgt]

The FE4Thread revival no one asked for.

[NoNameAtAll]

I, for one, welcome the return of the Thread.

[Roxas]

wait what yeah actually what the fuck LOL

[Acacia Sgt]

Missed out, huh.

[NoNameAtAll]

I know, crazy right? We had actual discussion for a moment!

[PuffPuff]

On 5/9/2022 at 4:46 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

The FE4Thread revival no one asked for.

 

On 5/12/2022 at 10:25 PM, Roxas said:

wait what yeah actually what the fuck LOL

lol

------

The mother walks with me.

[Acacia Sgt]

Kiki, huh.

[PuffPuff]

Yes.

[NoNameAtAll]

Happy June.