Swordmasters.

[Narga_Rocks]

Zihark. If your especially playing with transfer data for RD, he can actually be better than Mia in RD. Zihark is the only Swordmaster to not have any failure in any stats.

Which game? PoR at similar levels he does pull hp and def leads on Mia, so I'll give you that. Also his supports make the real difference in durability, since the hp/def leads aren't exactly huge.

In RD Mia will have a level lead, and even without it she'll have a hp/str/def/lck lead at similar levels anyway once part 4 rolls around (tier 3). (hp lead until Zihark hits 20/15.) Str lead until he caps (nearly 20/20 already. Even if he caps in tier 2 thanks to transfer/bexp it still takes until 20/18 anyway, and she still has fire). Def lead forever. Luck lead forever. At the same level he'll win skl/spd by insignificant amounts (considering with a level lead of like 1 she'll wash it away, level lead of 2 for skill when they get to ~20/10 or so). He wins res by a significant amount. woot.

[Ether]

My vote should be pretty obvious.

[Swords Master Panda]

I tend to prefer to use Mia over Zihark. I like her because she can be recruited early and has vantage. She's also very good if you take the time to train her well.

[BK-201]

Necroposting.

[Fireman]

Necroposting.

Meh...It's 8 days past the limit...I'll let it slide.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Not trying to resurrect this topic if it's truly dead I'm too young to be dabbling in the fell arts, but I must say that Zihark truly has Mia beat. I never realized this until I compared their growths and bases. Even if Mia gets to 13/-- by chapter 11, I don't think that she's significantly ahead of Zihark's bases (maybe +2 speed, +1.5 defense, but Zihark has more room to grow). And I think that Fire affinity + vantage = Earth + adept. As for actual supports, Mia will probably get A Rhys, B Ilyana, and Zihark wants A Muarim B Ilyana, but Muarim won't likely be played, so he's getting A Ilyana only (since Brom isn't that great either). It's close and all, but I'd say that Zihark is slightly better. It's irrelevant for me, since I always play Mia. I like her as a character more.

[Candlejack]

lol

Also, Zihark is just better than Mia anyway.

But I like Zihark more since he's not a flat and screechy whore, a JEW, or a blue haired shitty swordsman.

... Okay so he's a furry. BUT HE HAS BASE 15 SPD AND EARTH AFFINITY.

[Junkhead]

I voted for Lucia, she was actually useful for me since Mia & Zihark died, well, didn't care much for them really.

Lucia was really useful with the Sonic Sword, she just laughed at everyone, I used a bit BEXP to help her Str and Mag, and criticals helped her gain her way through.

Although I have to agree Stefan wins, he has way more durability and better stats at a lower level, his only weak point is crappy Luck and supports.

[Deliriyum]

Meh, I'm not a big fan of SM's. When I feel like it, I use Zihark. Mia isn't a whole lot of use in her chapters before zihark is available, and I only use stefan in chapter 17. Lucia is just lol. Too weak/fragile

[RNG Princess]

I like all of them, but Zihark is the best.

However I vote for Lucia.

[Ercdouken]

Out of the four, Mia is my favorite. Stat-wise, Zihark is the best out of the four. I voted for Mia anyhow.

[Inui]

Stefan is the best, followed closely by Zihark. The others are horrendous.

[Original Alear]

Hot-wise, Lucia is the best in this game.

[Narga_Rocks]

Stefan is the best, followed closely by Zihark. The others are horrendous.

Let's see. Statistically Mia and Zihark are about even up until Zihark finally gets his supports to a meaningful level. So, somehow having +25 avo for 10 or so chapters makes him close to Zihark and Mia is horrendous? Strange ideas you have. Zihark is not so much better than Mia that your statement makes any form of sense, unless you mean to suggest that Zihark is nearly horrendous. Overall, Zihark isn't much better than Mia at all.

Oh, and you don't seem to mind that Stefan will randomly die on you since his luck is bad enough that he faces a lot more non-zero crit rates than most other characters.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Inui]

Let's see. Statistically Mia and Zihark are about even up until Zihark finally gets his supports to a meaningful level. So, somehow having +25 avo for 10 or so chapters makes him close to Zihark and Mia is horrendous? Strange ideas you have. Zihark is not so much better than Mia that your statement makes any form of sense, unless you mean to suggest that Zihark is nearly horrendous. Overall, Zihark isn't much better than Mia at all.

Oh, and you don't seem to mind that Stefan will randomly die on you since his luck is bad enough that he faces a lot more non-zero crit rates than most other characters.

10/0 Mia

HP: 23.0 (50%)

Str: 8.6 (40%)

Mag: 1.2 (30%)

Skl: 11.8 (45%)

Spd: 15.4 (60%)

Lck: 7.8 (45%)

Def: 7.8 (20%)

Res: 3.0 (25%)

10/0 Zihark

HP: 25.0 (55%)

Str: 10.0 (45%)

Mag: 1.0 (15%)

Skl: 13.0 (50%)

Spd: 15.0 (60%)

Lck: 6.0 (40%)

Def: 7.0 (30%)

Res: 0.0 (20%)

BROKEN AFFINITY

Mia starts off about the same as Zihark, but that quickly changes as he begins to beat her soundly in HP, Str, and Skl without losing Spd. He then gets a Def lead and a huge Evd lead after supporting someone. Mia gets to have more Res. Big deal. Zihark gets to not be hit.

Also, speaking of her supports... She has Rhys, Ilyana, and Largo. Zihark has Ilyana, Brom, and Muarim. Every single one of his partners wants him badly and they are all good units. Rhys is mediocre, Largo sucks, and Ilyana has better options.

I am perfectly content with investing a single Goddess Statue or whatever the +2 Luck item is in this game in Stefan since nobody else needs such an item.

[Shadow Mir]

I don't see why Stefan is better than Zihark when Stefan's got TERRIBLE luck, which hurts his evade (68 evade at max level, which is 58 with WTD, fails to impress me when you're in a class who mostly depends on dodging). And supports don't help him that much, seeing as the best he can possibly get is 7 evade from an A Soren.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Richter Renard

[Narga_Rocks]

Okay, first problem is your levels (level lead necessary assuming efficient play). But let's ignore that for now. Some people are stubborn about the level thing and it appears you may be one of them.

So, she has .8 more def, he has .1 more on his growth. It'll take until level 18 before he's even tied, and level 20/8 before he actually pulls a lead. She'll get B Ilyana before he gets B Brom, as well. He'll be able to get B Brom and B Ilyana eventually if he wants, so he'll pull ahead eventually in supports as well as unsupported, but by then his avo is working, too.

Str. Well, she's barely down, at least when you consider she's not far from getting C Rhys. .4 down with that. Sadly for Zihark, Mia's supports give her a +4 by the end and he can only ever have a +1. Based on their averages, he never pulls a lead.

His Earth isn't a big deal until A Brom, C Ilyana. Until then it's not super reliable anyway so they are mostly relying on hp/def and intermittent dodging. Mia has innate vantage so there are multiple occasions where things are weakened enough that she doesn't get attacked and he would. She wins durability until he finally gets going, he wins durability afterwards. His win may be bigger later than hers earlier, but not extraordinarily so.

Also, for your little "Rhys is mediocre" crack. Who cares? He's a healer. He's not there to be a fighter. Since small (to a point) teams are more efficient than larger teams (like, say, a team of 8 + healers and Volke rather than full deployment teams), you happen to have extra space for utility units. And hey, he can heal. He's got an easier claim for a spot than units like Ilyana, Muarim, Brom.

If you want to start whining about the chance of Mia getting her supports, Rhys is more likely to be fielded than any of Zihark's units. Ilyana is on both their lists, so I'd happily concede Ilyana is present.

Oh, and just who does Ilyana want rather than Mia? Surely you don't think Gatrie or Lucia. So it comes down to Zihark, Mordecai, Mia. I still see little issue with allowing Mia to have an Ilyana support if Mia is being fielded. Just like I'd assume Brom actually is deployed if you are attempting to use Zihark, Ilyana should be assumed available to Mia if desired because, well, why would you build a team in such a way that units go supportless? Seems like a strange decision to me, anyway.

Oh, and since you bothered to make a point of responding, rather than just leaving well enough alone, maybe you'd care to respond to the links in this post:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16443&view=findpost&p=627193

I didn't put it up before because I didn't want to make a big deal of this. I just don't like seeing Mia getting called trash when Zihark is loved. (Ok, you said "horrendous", but essentially you are calling Mia trash.) He's barely better overall, if at all. All I wanted was to point out that Mia is far from "horrendous", but no, you had to make more of a comparison about it.

[Inui]

It's because he actually need to dodge like you might think he does and giving him a Goddess Icon/Statue/whatever it is makes perfect sense since nobody else cares about it. That gets rid of his being criticaled issue entirely.

Stefan: 38 HP/12 Def/9 Res

Kieran 20/1 Paladin: 37.8 HP/15.2 Def/6.4 Res

Oscar 20/1 Paladin: 38.3 HP/15.9 Def/8.1 Res

Uh... Comparing to two of your most durable, if not most durable units, in concrete durability when he joins is bad?

Now for the best unit in the game...

Titania 20/10 Paladin: 40.2 HP/14.6 Def/11.1 Res

And he has the THE best offense when he joins by a large amount. 19 Str/27 Skl/25 Spd/Meteor Sword/Crit boosts.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Inui

[Mekkah]

You really oughta change that style of only responding to 1/8 of someone's argument, it doesn't work. :(

[Shadow Mir]

It's because he actually need to dodge like you might think he does and giving him a Goddess Icon/Statue/whatever it is makes perfect sense since nobody else cares about it. That gets rid of his being criticaled issue entirely.

Stefan: 38 HP/12 Def/9 Res

Kieran 20/1 Paladin: 37.8 HP/15.2 Def/6.4 Res

Oscar 20/1 Paladin: 38.3 HP/15.9 Def/8.1 Res

Uh... Comparing to two of your most durable, if not most durable units, in concrete durability when he joins is bad?

Now for the best unit in the game...

Titania 20/10 Paladin: 40.2 HP/14.6 Def/11.1 Res

And he has the THE best offense when he joins by a large amount. 19 Str/27 Skl/25 Spd/Meteor Sword/Crit boosts.

Bolded: Not quite... I still pretty much have to keep him away from anything with enhanced crit (snipers, other swordmasters, Elthunder mages, you name it).

[Inui]

Okay, first problem is your levels (level lead necessary assuming efficient play). But let's ignore that for now. Some people are stubborn about the level thing and it appears you may be one of them.

She isn't gaining more than 4 levels before Zihark joins imo. She's kinda fail and has to fight too many lances.

So, she has .8 more def, he has .1 more on his growth. It'll take until level 18 before he's even tied, and level 20/8 before he actually pulls a lead. She'll get B Ilyana before he gets B Brom, as well. He'll be able to get B Brom and B Ilyana eventually if he wants, so he'll pull ahead eventually in supports as well as unsupported, but by then his avo is working, too.

Except he's already beating her by 2 HP and that only grows and he eventually gets h4x Evd while she does not. At base level, if they both eat a physical hit, Zihark still has 1 more HP than her. If they both eat a magic hit, then she wins by 1, but those are not common.

Does Ilyana want or need her B when Mordecai and Zihark are giving her much better bonuses? All of Zihark's partners want his broken affinity, especially glass units like Ilyana. Muarim is good and wants Zihark.

Str. Well, she's barely down, at least when you consider she's not far from getting C Rhys. .4 down with that. Sadly for Zihark, Mia's supports give her a +4 by the end and he can only ever have a +1. Based on their averages, he never pulls a lead.

If you're using Rhys. His offense and durability are both horrible. Once you have other healers, this dude needs to stop existing. Worst magic type by far and getting doubled = lol. Rhys does not exist. Zihark's Atk is always better.

His Earth isn't a big deal until A Brom, C Ilyana. Until then it's not super reliable anyway so they are mostly relying on hp/def and intermittent dodging. Mia has innate vantage so there are multiple occasions where things are weakened enough that she doesn't get attacked and he would. She wins durability until he finally gets going, he wins durability afterwards. His win may be bigger later than hers earlier, but not extraordinarily so.

And Zihark as Adept, allowing him to often kill things before he can take a counter. .8 Def =/= durability win when Zihark has 2 more HP and beats her growths in both Def and HP. Zihark has massive durability wins later on in the bigger chapters with much stronger enemies.

I will be generous and hand Mia B with Ilyana that Ilyana doesn't want. Rhys does not give her any durability

20/10 Mia

36.5 HP, 70.8 Evd, 13.6 Def, 9.7 Res

B Ilyana: +1 Def/Res

20/10 Zihark

39.5 HP, 68.0 Evd, 14.7 Def, 5.8 Res

B Ilyana or Brom/B Muarim: +20 Evd, +2 Def/Res

This is a massacre.

Also, for your little "Rhys is mediocre" crack. Who cares? He's a healer. He's not there to be a fighter. Since small (to a point) teams are more efficient than larger teams (like, say, a team of 8 + healers and Volke rather than full deployment teams), you happen to have extra space for utility units. And hey, he can heal. He's got an easier claim for a spot than units like Ilyana, Muarim, Brom.

If you want to start whining about the chance of Mia getting her supports, Rhys is more likely to be fielded than any of Zihark's units. Ilyana is on both their lists, so I'd happily concede Ilyana is present.

Yeah, Rhys is a healer. One that never gets good at fighting and is always bottom tier in durability. Mist destroys him after promotion. Soren, Ilyana, and Tormod all outclass him easily. His use as a healer instantly vanishes once you promote Soren or Ilyana and get Mist. Rhys gets doubled and one-rounded often. He is like FE 6 Lilina except worse since she can actually do damage when she hits things.

Ilyana, Muarim, and Brom are all good units. Why won't they be fielded? Just use them. They're all good. If you're fielding Zihark, why would you not use his partners if they are good? Mia has partner issues because two of hers are horrible units.

Oh, and just who does Ilyana want rather than Mia? Surely you don't think Gatrie or Lucia. So it comes down to Zihark, Mordecai, Mia. I still see little issue with allowing Mia to have an Ilyana support if Mia is being fielded. Just like I'd assume Brom actually is deployed if you are attempting to use Zihark, Ilyana should be assumed available to Mia if desired because, well, why would you build a team in such a way that units go supportless? Seems like a strange decision to me, anyway.

She wants Evd and Def, neither of with Mia provides for her. She doesn't care about minor boosts to Atk and Hit. She needs durability.

I am not saying Mia should go supportless. I am saying her options are two horrible units and one good one that prefers other bonuses. That is a bad situation. All of Zihark's partners want him and are good units.

Oh, and since you bothered to make a point of responding, rather than just leaving well enough alone, maybe you'd care to respond to the links in this post:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16443&view=findpost&p=627193

I didn't put it up before because I didn't want to make a big deal of this. I just don't like seeing Mia getting called trash when Zihark is loved. (Ok, you said "horrendous", but essentially you are calling Mia trash.) He's barely better overall, if at all. All I wanted was to point out that Mia is far from "horrendous", but no, you had to make more of a comparison about it.

Don't care. I'd rather feed BEXP to a unit like Zihark and get a better unit. Feeding her BEXP is not a good argument. If she needs it, she's taking it away from the rest of the team, and the rest of the team is better than her.

Mia is shit.

Bolded: Not quite... I still pretty much have to keep him away from anything with enhanced crit (snipers, other swordmasters, Elthunder mages, you name it).

Those things often have Crit scores on anyone and he can't usually counter them, so he really has no business dealing with them. Well, he kills them without taking counters on his turn, so whatever. Such cases are too rare to matter.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Inui

[Florete]

Don't care. I'd rather feed BEXP to a unit like Zihark and get a better unit. Feeding her BEXP is not a good argument. If she needs it, she's taking it away from the rest of the team, and the rest of the team is better than her.

Mia is shit.

Narga, are you smelling what I'm smelling? Smells like a bad case of smash_fanatic and Soviet Fire Emblem.

And would you believe that Inui actually is a Smash (Bros.) fanatic. Guess it runs in the family.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire

[Inui]

Narga, are you smelling what I'm smelling? Smells like a bad case of smash_fanatic and Soviet Fire Emblem.

And would you believe that Inui actually is a Smash (Bros.) fanatic. Guess it runs in the family.

What don't you understand about this?

Feeding Mia 500 BEXP creates a worse unit than feeding Zihark 500 BEXP because Zihark still has better growths and way better supports. That never changes. If Mia consumes 500 BEXP, it means the rest of the team can't use it. Zihark can consume the same resources and be better.

The BEXP arguments I read were horrible because that simple concept escaped them.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Inui

[Florete]

What don't you understand about this?

Feeding Mia 500 BEXP creates a worse unit than feeding Zihark 500 BEXP because Zihark still has better growths and way better supports. That never changes. If Mia consumes 500 BEXP, it means the rest of the team can't use it. Zihark can consume the same resources and be better.

The BEXP arguments I read were horrible because that simple concept escaped them.

Did not read the posts/didn't comprehend the logic. Yep, it's smash_fanatic 2.0. Did you flunk Econ or something?

[Inui]

Did not read the posts/didn't comprehend the logic. Yep, it's smash_fanatic 2.0. Did you flunk Econ or something?

Instead of insulting me, perhaps you could either debate or explain it? Or does this place not have rules against trolling and flaming?

I saw arguments about giving her BEXP. Okay, fine. That makes up for her level and makes her stronger. What happens if you give that same BEXP to someone else, Zihark in this case? He makes better use of it by having better growths and bases and he always slaughters her in supports. Zihark is way better given the same treatment. Units that never need BEXP, like Titania and Stefan, also get bonus points for letting everyone else use it instead. Another point for Stefan against Mia. He doesn't take resources from the rest of the team.

How am I wrong here?