ITT I rank the characters

[Paperblade]

Why do you hate the world so much that you would mention Aran in a topic that both Int and smash have posted in.

This is America, Paperblade.

I'm just curious.

(And yes I know about Int / smash thing. I've only seen it 1293048103245280752349057234085872345 times).

Well then, for your sake, I hope you aren't a cat.

[Colonel M]

Why do you hate the world so much that you would mention Aran in a topic that both Int and smash have posted in.

This is America, Paperblade.

I'm just curious.

(And yes I know about Int / smash thing. I've only seen it 1293048103245280752349057234085872345 times).

Well then, for your sake, I hope you aren't a cat.

Yeah. Wish me luck.

[Anouleth]

I'm always confused why people insist on comparing Aran to Nephenee, when they're not in the same chapters, they don't fight similar enemies, and they don't have similar roles in their respective teams. They just happen to be the same class - the fact that their situation means they're simply incomparable.

Ditto Mia/Zihark and Haar/Jill.

[Colonel M]

I'm always confused why people insist on comparing Aran to Nephenee, when they're not in the same chapters, they don't fight similar enemies, and they don't have similar roles in their respective teams. They just happen to be the same class - the fact that their situation means they're simply incomparable.

Ditto Mia/Zihark and Haar/Jill.

Fanbois really.

[Progenitus]

To hell with your review. Zihark, Nolan, T, sometimes Jill, the LEA, Nailah, and the BK are enough to stomp everything that the game throws at the DB. That means that Aran is not terribly useful for game completion.

Ike, Haar, Gatrie, Titania, Shinon, Ulki, Janaff, Ranulf, Mordy, Oscar, and Reyson are enough to stomp everything that the game throws at the GMs. That means that Mia is not terribly useful for game completion.

Also, your list is missing Captain "Abs" Volug.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Andrew W.K.

[Interceptor]

Ike, Haar, Gatrie, Titania, Shinon, Ulki, Janaff, Ranulf, Mordy, Oscar, and Reyson are enough to stomp everything that the game throws at the GMs. That means that Mia is not terribly useful for game completion.

You obviously have no idea how powerful Mia is in Hard Mode. On top of that, I lol at the inclusion of Ranulf, Oscar, and Shinon in that list. Ike and Haar are excellent, and so are Raisin and the Hawks, but an efficient clear does not include only those units.

Also, your list is missing Captain "Abs" Volug.

True story, thanks for the correction.

[Progenitus]

You obviously have no idea how powerful Mia is in Hard Mode. On top of that, I lol at the inclusion of Ranulf, Oscar, and Shinon in that list. Ike and Haar are excellent, and so are Raisin and the Hawks, but an efficient clear does not include only those units.

And that is why I "preemptive strawman" everyone. It saves time.

[Dat Nick]

"Units in the DB that lose to Aran, like Tauroneo and Tormod"

What?

[Allan's Aokage]

Psst.

Grammatically, how much sense does "pre-emptive strawman" make? Plus, you edited it out of your post, so... what exactly are you trying to prove? :V

[Candlejack]

Jill: She requires less babying than anyone else in the DB that needs it. Except she's outclassed x100 by Haar. Aran doesn't really have anyone outclassing him except for Nephenee.

Someone needs to learn how these kinds of topics work.

We're rating characters based on performance compared to other units, right?

I'm saying Haar >>>>>>> Jill (Or any other playable unit for that matter.) and Nephenee ≥ Aran, if only for SPD.

To hell with your review. Zihark, Nolan, T, sometimes Jill, the LEA, Nailah, and the BK are enough to stomp everything that the game throws at the DB. That means that Aran is not terribly useful for game completion.

Zihark is a great unit, Nolan is also a great unit, T is NEVER EVER EVER around, the LEA is NEVER EVER EVER around, Nailah is a royal and the BK is used for three chapters. Aran is just a good unit for Part 1 since he can tank very well compared to your other units when you get him. He remains good as well due to his 75 STR growth and 70 DEF growth. Sure, there are SPD problems, but then again, his main role is a tank. Aran > most units in Part 1, then he becomes not as good beyond that; however, since we're babying him for promotion in 1-E so he isn't a waste of a space for the rest of the game, he still has viable use. Cannot say the same for many other characters in DB.

And that's why the DB is a piece of shit in Hard Mode. Aran has good company, so what? That doesn't make him an 8.0, it makes him mediocre.

He also has unavailable or shit company. Hell, the only guys who will pwn with him in Part 1 for more than two chapters are Nolan, Volug, Zihark, and Sothe. And those are only four units. And Sothe sucks past Part 1 and Volug is a Laguz that isn't a cat or raven.

Let's play through Part 1...

1-3: So yeah, we get Aran and the chapter is practically over. He can get some hits in, but he otherwise won't be leveling up. You'll probably have gotten ups for Miccy and Nolan; if you're using anyone else other than Nolan or Laura, you're stupid.

1-4: THERE BE LAGUUUUUUUZ HEEYA. So Aran becomes much more useful for tanking since Sothe is off pillaging like a cowardly little bitch, Nolan is hitting things very hard but not tanking as hard. Aran gets EXP from tanking, Nolan gets EXP for hitting hard, Micaiah gets EXP from Thani bombing, Laura gets EXP for healing, and Sothe gets EXP from being a little bitch.

1-5: You get Volug. He either solos the map or helps be the new Jeigan in place of Sothe. Who is still a little bitch. Aran helps tank on the eastern front, along with Nolan and maybe Volug, while Miccy casts from the back and Laura heals. Sothe is still a cowardly bastard, but steals a master seal.

1-6-1: Zihark, Jill, and Tauroneo come along to be DB's replacements. But Micaiah, Aran, Laura, Volug, and Nolan go with them. Volug still rapes everyone, Zihark becomes the new DB unit, Tauroneo makes a guest star for two chapters until Part 3, and Jill is weeping at Nolan's giant axe.

1-6-2: So that dumbass Fiona gets herself assaulted by the failcav. Volug goes off to rescue the bitch while Aran gets to tank moar to the North. Laura helps heal him while Zihark and Nolan go West, with Micaiah behind them casting. West team circles around while North team shields Fiona and her failcav from assaults.

1-7: We get the LEA, who also guest star for two chapters until Part 4. Aran, Nolan, and Laura go north to fend off those bitches while everyone else goes east to fuck shit up and meet up with the LEA. By now, you'll have two units that are able to promote; who will almost always likely be Nolan and Aran. In total, you'll get FOUR master seals as well. Since nobody else is going to use them since the later characters need crowns, not seals.

1-8: Motherfucking swamp leaves everyone except the Laguz Trio and the LEA a long trek around the swamp. And there are innocents to rescue, too. Good thing we have a flying unit and two Laguz who are easily willing to help out. Let Volug and Nailah rape everything in the west while your main army swings around the north- the LEA can follow behind too, but they'll be in the swamps rescuing the civilians except Tormod.

1-9: BK gets to stroke his ego and slap it across Micaiah and Jerod's faces. And by ego I mean Alondite. And by Alondite I mean his pe-*shot*

1-E: Those ledges aren't very cool. Though the map affinity is Thunder; but that means jack shit really. Aran and Nolan can ledge up from the bottom level, and whoever else can either follow or feed on the two guys on the east for whoever. Sothe gets to see the light of day to steal shit, so that's cool. You'll also have to give Illyana some stuff to bring for the Greil guys. You'll also want to promote whoever is at a good level. These units include Aran, Nolan, and maybe Jill and maybe Laura. You'll have one extra to use as well, but nobody else in the entire game is going to need it, so you can sell it.

So Aran promotes by Endgame and becomes a solid unit for the DB. He is a great wall and is able to hit things hard. You could even give a Speedwing to Aran if SPD matters that much on a tank for you; not like anyone else needs it.

So we get the DB in Part 3 in 3-6... but that is for another day.

EDIT: Also, you don't even need Oscar or Ranulf for that matter. Those remainders PWN the games by themselves.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Sedgar the Hero

[Progenitus]

"Units in the DB that lose to Aran, like Tauroneo and Tormod"

What?

Read the whole thing, please.

It depends on the system used when saying who wins or lose. In an overall-game system, Tauroneo and Tormod lose to Aran (they're currently under Aran in the tier topic). If we use a chapter-by-chapter system, then Tauroneo and Tormod do beat Aran (although I'm not sure if Tormod beats Aran in 1-E, and I'm pretty sure Tauroneo loses to Aran in 3-12 and 3-13, but that's beside the point), but then people like Zihark and Nolan are actually losing to Aran in certain chapters, and in most cases those units listed are only in a few chapters with Aran, such as Nailah/BK.

Psst.

Grammatically, how much sense does "pre-emptive strawman" make? Plus, you edited it out of your post, so... what exactly are you trying to prove? :V

It's a joke that I like to put in quotes an argument that my opponents are likely going to use, and then counter it. my opponents claim that their argument is not like that at all, and they've named the tactic "preemptive strawman".

My post was pointing out the purpose of preemptive strawman, since I was about to say something in quotes to mimic what Int's next argument was likely going to be, but edited out, but I screenshotted it for the lulz. And it turns out Int ends up saying what I thought he was going to say.

And now I've killed the joke.

[Candlejack]

It's hard to say Nolan loses to Aran AT ALL: his base DEF is only two lower than Aran's and he gets a lead in SPD anyway. He has the WTA as well, Earth affinity, and a higher STR in general. I'm actually defiant towards the opinion that Nolan loses to Aran at all.

Zihark, maybe. But based on stats, his SPD more than makes up for it. Also, lolEarth affinity.

[Progenitus]

It's hard to say Nolan loses to Aran AT ALL: his base DEF is only two lower than Aran's and he gets a lead in SPD anyway. He has the WTA as well, Earth affinity, and a higher STR in general. I'm actually defiant towards the opinion that Nolan loses to Aran at all.

Zihark, maybe. But based on stats, his SPD more than makes up for it. Also, lolEarth affinity.

Nolan most likely loses to Aran in late part 1, where Aran's def growth starts to kick in, and earth supports don't really help Nolan dodge too much (enemies have way too much hit), and Nolan doesn't have Tarvos yet. Even after Tarvos Nolan is probably losing a bit in part 3. The spd lead doesn't mean much during this time frame since neither double much.

Zihark most likely also loses in 1-E, and probably loses part 3. Again, even with earth, his dodging is a bit shaky.

[Candlejack]

It's hard to say Nolan loses to Aran AT ALL: his base DEF is only two lower than Aran's and he gets a lead in SPD anyway. He has the WTA as well, Earth affinity, and a higher STR in general. I'm actually defiant towards the opinion that Nolan loses to Aran at all.

Zihark, maybe. But based on stats, his SPD more than makes up for it. Also, lolEarth affinity.

Nolan most likely loses to Aran in late part 1, where Aran's def growth starts to kick in, and earth supports don't really help Nolan dodge too much (enemies have way too much hit), and Nolan doesn't have Tarvos yet. Even after Tarvos Nolan is probably losing a bit in part 3. The spd lead doesn't mean much during this time frame since neither double much.

Zihark most likely also loses in 1-E, and probably loses part 3. Again, even with earth, his dodging is a bit shaky.

1. Aran can wall... that's really about it. Sure, he has a pretty cool 70% STR growth as well, but Nolan will likely have a higher STR lead anyway. Axes also get a higher MT, so that STR lead is only boosted further. And Earth gives a 7.5 dodge bonus for a C support; everyone wants that, and Zihark!Nolan is an awesome pairing defensively. Tarvos Nolan only beats Aran further into the ground, since his DEF will actually help out DEF.

2. Zihark doesn't really lose to Aran. He has a much higher base DEF than many others in the DB and also has sexy 23 base SPD. Combine that with 65% SPD and you get more than a "shaky" dodge game.

[Florete]

We're rating characters based on performance compared to other units, right?

I'm saying Haar >>>>>>> Jill (Or any other playable unit for that matter.) and Nephenee ≥ Aran, if only for SPD.

Characters are compared to everyone, not just others in their class. Haar > Jill means nothing in a Jill vs Aran comparison, especially since he's not even on the same team.

[Candlejack]

Wait, we're comparing two characters with completely different roles?

[Florete]

Wait, we're comparing two characters with completely different roles?

[Progenitus]

1. Aran can wall... that's really about it. Sure, he has a pretty cool 70% STR growth as well, but Nolan will likely have a higher STR lead anyway. Axes also get a higher MT, so that STR lead is only boosted further. And Earth gives a 7.5 dodge bonus for a C support; everyone wants that, and Zihark!Nolan is an awesome pairing defensively. Tarvos Nolan only beats Aran further into the ground, since his DEF will actually help out DEF.

Well, Nolan doesn't have a significant offense lead towards the end of part 1, since their att should be about the same and Nolan doesn't really double anything. This leaves only walling, and Aran does it better than Nolan at the moment.

Even with Tarvos, Nolan still loses overall HP/def to Aran. For example, Aran at 20/1 with any support is already borderline surviving 2 hits from the 39 att tigers. IIRC, Nolan needs to be 20/5 (though I don't remember if this was with a def support or not. I think it was without one).

2. Zihark doesn't really lose to Aran. He has a much higher base DEF than many others in the DB and also has sexy 23 base SPD. Combine that with 65% SPD and you get more than a "shaky" dodge game.

Regardless of ZIhark's base def, he still loses def to Aran.

His dodge game is shaky. Laguz in 3-6 have 135-140 hit. Zihark with A Earth will have less than 110 avo, and he's borderline 2HKO'd by cats and overkill 2HKO'd by tigers. It doesn't help that as Aran gains levels during part 3 his tanking becomes even better, especially vs cats, while Zihark's HP/def never really improve and he's always facing high hit rates.

[Colonel M]

Wait, we're comparing two characters with completely different roles?

Needs more loops, a unicorn, and something else random.

Billy Mays perhaps.

(Still this is lol-worthy).

[Progenitus]

You just killed the joke, dude.

[Narga_Rocks]

Is nobody going to point out that there are no weapon triangles in HM and that map affinities don't affect the units? They were minor points and a few posts ago, but still.

[Colonel M]

You just killed the joke, dude.

I kill no joke.

You still have not answered my modest question.

[Progenitus]

You mean the aran vs boyd thing?

Aran's performance in the DB is better than Boyd's performance in the GMs.

Going beyond this will make a massive flame war, so...

[Colonel M]

You mean the aran vs boyd thing?

Aran's performance in the DB is better than Boyd's performance in the GMs.

Going beyond this will make a massive flame war, so...

Yeah... I'll buy it. For now.

[Vykan12]

Going beyond this will make a massive flame war, so...

Who says there won't be one anyway?