Micaiah *spoilers*

[The Hawk]

Something has always bothered me about Micaiah, besides for the whole Mary Sue thing she seems to love doing. Something just seemed...wrong about her, but I couldn’t figure out what. Then it came to me.

She’s a cold-blooded killer.

Go with me on this for a second. In Part 3, she manages to wipe out a lot of Sanaki’s army (with a pretty cheap shot I might add) and yet she doesn’t even blink at the massive casualties she’s just inflicted. Meanwhile, Sothe is about to go skydiving without a parachute, and Micaiah almost breaks down in tears. Also, think back to the rest of Part 3 up until this point. Do you remember her EVER showing any signs of regret about fighting the Laguz Alliance except for the fact that it’ll be bad for Daein? Neither do I. In fact, she seems perfectly fine with killing pretty much anyone who isn’t from Daein. She’s overly obsessed with her precious little country, and couldn’t really care less about anyone else.

Does this bother anyone else, or is it just me?

[Aless_and_Sety_Rule]

It doesn't bother me. Almost everyone in this game is the exact same way.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Personally I think people take way to much out of that scene. We all know the greil mercs would have done the exact same thing to the daien army. It's called proper strategy. If your opponent decides that rather than using its aerial and cavalry support to scout ahead and monitor the ground for enemy activity and walks into a dumb pass where it would be easy as pie to walk into a trap then honestly they deserved what they got. Begnion had the ability to spot this sort of thing. They just didn't take proper use of there forces to do so.

Blame the writers... Then again considering how little most fantasy fans know about the military I say blame them for not having the writers actually perform research or think about how stupid some of the stuff they come up with truly is. Most fantasy games get the military entirely wrong. Same with alot of fantasy fiction as well.

Ya know what screw it... Blame japan for starting a war with the united states and getting there asses kicked so hard they had to surrender the rights to own a military.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Lancelot

[Galenforcer]

Wouldn't Zihark feel the same way, fighting the Laguz Alliance, and doesn't show any type of saddness killing off laguz in his DB chapters?

[-Cynthia-]

Wouldn't Zihark feel the same way, fighting the Laguz Alliance, and doesn't show any type of saddness killing off laguz in his DB chapters?

Yeah, except for the fact he can be recruited, he seems hapy enough chopping down cats and tigers.

Micaiah does show some regret about killing the laguz, but she's doing what she feels is best for Daein, she values them more than the Gallians.

I honestly don't see Micaiah as that much of a Mary Sue. She regularly experiences "power failure"(Part 3), is shown as physically weak and easily capturable, and is shown as loyal to a fault (fighting for the wrong side), and loses pretty frequently in Part 3. Ike is more of a Marty Stu than Micaiah is a Mary Sue, RD Ike is basically Captian Perfect, he can do no wrong.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Yeah, except for the fact he can be recruited, he seems hapy enough chopping down cats and tigers.

Micaiah does show some regret about killing the laguz, but she's doing what she feels is best for Daein, she values them more than the Gallians.

I honestly don't see Micaiah as that much of a Mary Sue. She regularly experiences "power failure"(Part 3), is shown as physically weak and easily capturable, and is shown as loyal to a fault (fighting for the wrong side), and loses pretty frequently in Part 3. Ike is more of a Marty Stu than Micaiah is a Mary Sue, RD Ike is basically Captian Perfect, he can do no wrong.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on ike and micaiah.

[BrightBow]

Something has always bothered me about Micaiah, besides for the whole Mary Sue thing she seems to love doing.

Am I actually the only one who thinks that Micaiah is on of the few Lords not beeing a Mary Sue? Marth, Celice, Sigurd, Leaf, Roy, Eliwood, Erika and even Ike to some extend are all kind, idealistic, charismatic heros who are always right in their desicions and therefore never fail suceesfully bringing the light of hope across their world. How can you call Micaiah even a Mary Sue if she keeps fighting on the wrong during the entire game? Isn't it a sign of a Mary Sue that she is flawless?

She’s a cold-blooded killer.

Go with me on this for a second. In Part 3, she manages to wipe out a lot of Sanaki’s army (with a pretty cheap shot I might add) and yet she doesn’t even blink at the massive casualties she’s just inflicted. Meanwhile, Sothe is about to go skydiving without a parachute, and Micaiah almost breaks down in tears. Also, think back to the rest of Part 3 up until this point. Also, think back to the rest of Part 3 up until this point. Do you remember her EVER showing any signs of regret about fighting the Laguz Alliance except for the fact that it’ll be bad for Daein?

How is she coldblooded? All the killing was the reason that she had a breakdown at the end of 3-7, and another one at the end of 3-11. Remember she is a branded from heron heritage. Herons are the most emphatic from all the Laguz, so emphatic that they can even read thoughts or sense other beeings over great distaces. Beeing a emphatic person is a good thing if everything's fine, but if pain, fear, suffering and pain rules then the emphatic person suffers. In Micaiah's case it's even worse while since she cares about others a lot she is also afraid of them at the same time, that they would find out about her beeing branded. Somewhere in part 1 she tells Sothe how she is afraid to see such hatred in the eyes who currently look at her with love. And the more the people loved her the worse the situation got for her because that would mean they would hate her even more once they find out. Didn't help either that Mordecai, Vika and Pellas noticed something about here, scaring her even more that her secret would leak. It's not like she was afraid being killed in the result. She was afraid of the emotion's which would be behind this act.

Seriously, she gets emotionally totured the entire part 1 and completly despairs during part 3 and you think her only sign of regret is when Tibarn fooled Micaiah into thinking Sothe dies. This was just the moment when the mask she used to hide her feelings shattered.

In fact, she seems perfectly fine with killing pretty much anyone who isn’t from Daein.

Jill talks to Micaiah in 3-E.

Jill: Even now, Daein blood spills on the battlefield. You must stop this! There must be another way!

Micaiah: I can't, and there isn't. We have to keep fighting. Until the last of us falls, we have no choice

Dosn't really sound like someone who prefers the dead of her own over the death of others if she talks like the dead of everyone on her side has already as decided.

She’s overly obsessed with her precious little country, and couldn’t really care less about anyone else.

Not really. But if you say it like that, if you would have to decide between the lifes of all the people of your country and all the lifes of the members of a other countrys army, which would you choose? It's a really stupid decision if "you" have to make it. Is there any decision you could make which would let you sleep at night even if it was the best possible decision. But after all it comes down to a decison between a army and an entire countrys population. Right and wrong hardly matters if it come down to survival and Micaiah was in a position were she was responsible for the life of everyone in her country during a hopeless situation. Whatever she would have decided, uncountable lives would have been lost. There was no way to get arround it.

But yes, here comes bad writing into play, since the best decision would have been to side with the apostel. It's stated several times that Daein had no chance against the apostel's army so they would have been wiped out with or without the blood pact so they might as well go down in glory by helping to purge the world of these cruel senators. On the other hand if Daein would have lost against the apostel it would only have been Daein's army and not it's entire population who would have been died so this option might actually be preferable if you judge by mathematics.

Edited July 24, 2009 by BrightBow-User

[Thunder Mage Ilyana]

How is she coldblooded? All the killing was the reason that she had a breakdown at the end of 3-7, and another one at the end of 3-11. Remember she is a branded from heron heritage. Herons are the most emphatic from all the Laguz, so emphatic that they can even read thoughts or sense other beeings over great distaces. Beeing a emphatic person is a good thing if everything's fine, but if pain, fear, suffering and pain rules then the emphatic person suffers. In Micaiah's case it's even worse while since she cares about others a lot she is also afraid of them at the same time, that they would find out about her beeing branded. Somewhere in part 1 she tells Sothe how she is afraid to see such hatred in the eyes who currently look at her with love. And the more the people loved her the worse the situation got for her because that would mean they would hate her even more once they find out. Didn't help either that Mordecai Muarim, Vika and Pellas noticed something about here, scaring her even more that her secret would leak. It's not like she was afraid being killed in the result. She was afraid of the emotion's which would be behind this act.

Seriously, she gets emotionally totured the entire part 1 and completly despairs during part 3 and you think her only sign of regret is when Tibarn fooled Micaiah into thinking Sothe dies. This was just the moment when the mask she used to hide her feelings shattered.

Fixed

[Cenzo25]

Yes. Yes, it bothers me so much that I have begun to hate Micaiah and her smug little face every time she shoes up on screen...

[The Hawk]

How is she coldblooded? All the killing was the reason that she had a breakdown at the end of 3-7, and another one at the end of 3-11. Remember she is a branded from heron heritage. Herons are the most emphatic from all the Laguz, so emphatic that they can even read thoughts or sense other beeings over great distaces. Beeing a emphatic person is a good thing if everything's fine, but if pain, fear, suffering and pain rules then the emphatic person suffers. In Micaiah's case it's even worse while since she cares about others a lot she is also afraid of them at the same time, that they would find out about her beeing branded. Somewhere in part 1 she tells Sothe how she is afraid to see such hatred in the eyes who currently look at her with love. And the more the people loved her the worse the situation got for her because that would mean they would hate her even more once they find out. Didn't help either that Mordecai, Vika and Pellas noticed something about here, scaring her even more that her secret would leak. It's not like she was afraid being killed in the result. She was afraid of the emotion's which would be behind this act.

Seriously, she gets emotionally totured the entire part 1 and completly despairs during part 3 and you think her only sign of regret is when Tibarn fooled Micaiah into thinking Sothe dies. This was just the moment when the mask she used to hide her feelings shattered.

Okay, maybe I said this wrong. She's obviously not cold-blooded in general, what with her occasional nervous breakdowns and being the kind of person who genuinely cares what people think about her, all I'm saying is that she...well, she doesn't seem to care too much about the people she's fighting. You know, what about their families/country/honor/whatever? Like I said, maybe it's just me, but every once in a while I see Micaiah as being...a little too good at killing the enemy soldiers.

Jill talks to Micaiah in 3-E.

Jill: Even now, Daein blood spills on the battlefield. You must stop this! There must be another way!

Micaiah: I can't, and there isn't. We have to keep fighting. Until the last of us falls, we have no choice

Dosn't really sound like someone who prefers the dead of her own over the death of others if she talks like the dead of everyone on her side has already as decided.

Because of that quote, I just now pictured the 300 Spartans. Don't ask.

Not really. But if you say it like that, if you would have to decide between the lifes of all the people of your country and all the lifes of the members of a other countrys army, which would you choose? It's a really stupid decision if "you" have to make it. Is there any decision you could make which would let you sleep at night even if it was the best possible decision. But after all it comes down to a decison between a army and an entire countrys population. Right and wrong hardly matters if it come down to survival and Micaiah was in a position were she was responsible for the life of everyone in her country during a hopeless situation. Whatever she would have decided, uncountable lives would have been lost. There was no way to get arround it.

But yes, here comes bad writing into play, since the best decision would have been to side with the apostel. It's stated several times that Daein had no chance against the apostel's army so they would have been wiped out with or without the blood pact so they might as well go down in glory by helping to purge the world of these cruel senators. On the other hand if Daein would have lost against the apostel it would only have been Daein's army and not it's entire population who would have been died so this option might actually be preferable if you judge by mathematics.

Yeah, it's true, Micaiah didn't exactly have the easiest decision to make. It's hard to say whether or not she made the "right" one or not, but since I'm not usually one for the deep discussions, I'll just sit back and keep poking fun at the story. Has anyone here ever pictured Micaiah with a chainsaw in her hands yelling "BRING IT ON!!" to Ike? I'll bet you have now.

But even after saying all that I want to be clear that I don't hate Micaiah. She's not my favorite Lord in the series, but I think that sometimes she gets more hatred then she deserves. Sure, at times she's sweet, innocent and kind to the point where you almost want to puke, but that also makes her kind of hard to hate in my opinion.

Yeah, except for the fact he can be recruited, he seems hapy enough chopping down cats and tigers.

Micaiah does show some regret about killing the laguz, but she's doing what she feels is best for Daein, she values them more than the Gallians.

I honestly don't see Micaiah as that much of a Mary Sue. She regularly experiences "power failure"(Part 3), is shown as physically weak and easily capturable, and is shown as loyal to a fault (fighting for the wrong side), and loses pretty frequently in Part 3. Ike is more of a Marty Stu than Micaiah is a Mary Sue, RD Ike is basically Captian Perfect, he can do no wrong.

As a matter of fact, Ike did very wrong. He traded his personality from PoR (which I happened to like) for those huge new muscles of his in RD. Big mistake.

Yes. Yes, it bothers me so much that I have begun to hate Micaiah and her smug little face every time she shoes up on screen...

...Right...

Edited July 26, 2009 by The Hawk

[sirdangolot5]

As a matter of fact, Ike did very wrong. He traded his personality from PoR (which I happened to like) for those huge new muscles of his in RD. Big mistake.

Totally. I thought Ike was awesome in the first game, because he had no preconceptions of anybody. It really shined through in his interactions with Begnion nobles.

Edited July 26, 2009 by sirdangolot5

[luigi bros]

She isn't a cold-blooded killer at all. She used such cheap tactics against the Laguz Alliance because she knows if she doesn't Daein will die. She get's so sad about Sothe plummeting because she's the only one she's trusted her secret to. She even marries him at the end. She cares for Daein so much that she'll do anything for Daein. No matter how horrible the requirements are.

[Sasori]

I wonder why no one in part 4 said anything about the fact that she burned half a army

[Kaito]

I wonder why no one in part 4 said anything about the fact that she burned half a army

She shares a body with a goddess, maybe?

[Paper Jam]

I wonder why no one in part 4 said anything about the fact that she burned half a army

I thought she didn't; she poured oil on them, but Tibarn intervened before she could set them on fire.

[aizengard]

every time she clears a map she writes with the enemys blood I am justice.

[Renall]

Wait why is Leaf of all people included in the list of Mary Sue lords? Leaf screws up royal. So bad it gets a bunch of people killed. And he's pretty indecisive overall, relying on August to tell him what to do.

And it's not like Lyn/Hector/Eliwood make a ton of decisions on their own. They rely on the tactician for the most part.

[BrightBow]

Actually the tactican hasn't much to say after Lyns story. Also both Hectors and Eliwoods story can be played without the tactican by skipping Lyns story so he is really not important at all and probably non-canon. I never included Lyn anyway because she seems to be quite inmature, aswell as having the bad habit of sticking her nose into other peoples family buisness and beeing mostly angstly to top it of, and Hector for being a hotheaded punk who has yet to learn the meaning of the word responsibility,

As far as Leaf goes I haven't played through Thracia 776 yet to be honest, but I just couldn't see much of a difference to the likes of Marth and Eliwood personality wise. Well I guess you are right and he didn't belong at this list.

[-Cynthia-]

Actually, I'm more surprised Ephraim isn't on the list.

Eirika: My brother is perfect and cannot lose.

Ephraim: It's true. Even when I have plans that seem incredbily stupid and suicidal(5x), I still succeed. I also crush the Grado empire pretty much singlehandedly.

At least Eirika is portrayed as naive and often has to have Ephraim rescue her on several occasions, Ephraim just wins at everything he tries.

Edited July 28, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Sasori]

Did't ephraim said he did not care what happened to him as long as he bought some time for eirika so it was more of a suicide plan it was a wonder that he won though.

[BrightBow]

Of course this is just my personal interpretation of the characters but I think that Ephrahim and Eirika's personality worked very well with Lyon's feeling of enviousness regarding them which would eventuelly bring the entire continent to war, so even if they are rather bland it only does good for the story. Ephrahim also DOES have his own dark feelings as he admits in his B-support conversation with Eirika.

By the way, does anybody know how to use spoiler tags in the forums current skin ?

[Scarlet]

Did't ephraim said he did not care what happened to him as long as he bought some time for eirika so it was more of a suicide plan it was a wonder that he won though.

Actually, he is fairly confident that his plan succeeds, and mentions several times that he never provokes battles he can't win. So obviously, he pretty much knew he would win. That does make him look like a captain perfect...

The only time he actually fails in doing something is when he gets Renais' sacred stone destroyed by Lyon on Ephraim route.

[Phoenix Wright]

Of course this is just my personal interpretation of the characters but I think that Ephrahim and Eirika's personality worked very well with Lyon's feeling of enviousness regarding them which would eventuelly bring the entire continent to war, so even if they are rather bland it only does good for the story. Ephrahim also DOES have his own dark feelings as he admits in his B-support conversation with Eirika and he also admits during chapter 16b that he pretty much run off to chase for glory when Grado invaded.

By the way, does anybody know how to use spoiler tags in the forums current skin?

Edit: I am sorry for the doublepost. I didn't do that on purpose.

The same way as before.

Ephraim is one of my favorite Lords because he's like Ike and Hector. Ephraim and Hector are both full of themselves (but not to the point where it gets annoying, in my opinion). Ike is a little like both of them too because he knows he won't lose. He loses confidence sometimes, but he knows he won't lose.

Eirika on the other hand is just pathetic. She relies on her brother to solve everything for her. Stereotypes.

Story-wise, Ephraim's path was much darker than Eirika's.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Old Snake

[BrightBow]

Eirika on the other hand is just pathetic. She relies on her brother to solve everything for her. Stereotypes.

Well, she tried to change that. You could blame Ephrahim for demotivating her.

Chapter 2

"Eirika:

I've always relied on you to protect me, Brother. I would rather not be such a burden to you in the future. So, I thought maybe I should learn to protect myself...

Ephraim:

I'm your brother. Brothers are supposed to protect their sisters. It's nothing for you to worry about. It's no cause for concern."

Of course having the male hero fight for the greater cause while the heroine fights to protect her loved ones is even more sterotypical.

Edited July 28, 2009 by BrightBow-User

[PuffPuff]

Yes. Yes, it bothers me so much that I have begun to hate Micaiah and her smug little face every time she shoes up on screen...

In the first playthrough, Personnally, I honestly would have enjoyed watching the Gallians tearing her limb from limb in Part 3-13. Actually, that probably would have happpend if Nailah didn't come in to set things right. It's thanks to her is what set your mind at ease..a little. But you've gotta admit that it is very hard to set your mind at ease once Miciah goes on the wrong path in Part III. Because of being branded and Part I's deeds is why she is forgiven.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Sonja