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FE9 Tier list v3


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Rolf needs: <= 725 bexp to get to level 9, by the way. You can't give him any in chapter 9, since he shows up after it starts and you don't get him in the base, and there's no point in chapter 10 since it's stealth. So in the chapter 11 base we have:

2880 bexp, assuming everyone escapes in chapter 6 and max deployment in chapter 8 and only 2 units escape in chapter 10.

~25%.

Of the top 11 units in the list, 5 of them aren't even available yet. If you have a team of 10 planned, and say 3 of those 5 units will be joining, then in chapter 11 that's only 7 units including Rolf or whatever unit is not Rolf but we are using instead.

2880 / 7 = 411 bexp.

Rolf needs less than 725 to reach level 9, assuming he gets taken to 99 exp in level 1 first then given 100 at a time to make it as cheap as possible. If he did anything in chapter 9, even a single chip, it's less.

(2880 - 725) / 6 = 359

Basically, Rolf is costing them an extra 52 bexp each. Many of them won't even be able to level anyway with that 52 depending on how close they are to a level.

That's also ignoring Titania and Lethe and Mordecai not wanting bexp anyway. Assume two of them will be used:

2880 / 5 = 576 each.

(2880 - 725) / 4 = 538 each.

So he might only cost each unit 38 bexp. Even less.

I'm not saying he gets it for free, or anything close to that. Just saying it seems some people are blowing the opportunity cost out of proportion. If someone better than Rolf was to be used instead of Rolf, he'd get his share of bexp. Since we use Rolf instead, he gets 576 just for being one of the units used. That's already enough for level 7. The extra bexp just pushes him up to level 9, and he may only need half of the extra 149 bexp because of action in chapter 9.

Rolf's also taking away BEXP from Jill, Astrid, Makalov, and Mist.

Also, seeing as Lethe and Mordecai don't take away from deployment spots by the time BEXP is given, their share shouldn't be deducted.

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Good thing Jill, Astrid and Makalov join later. Mist is the only fair point really. Narga has also shown that the BEXP that Rolf takes is miniscule in comparison.

Speaking of Mordy and Lethe, shouldn't they get a bit more of a thumbs up for being so good earlygame that they don't need BEXP to be good immediately, thus freeing up more for guys like your normal team, especially if you don't plan on using Mordy and Lethe forever?

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Good thing Jill, Astrid and Makalov join later. Mist is the only fair point really. Narga has also shown that the BEXP that Rolf takes is miniscule in comparison.

Speaking of Mordy and Lethe, shouldn't they get a bit more of a thumbs up for being so good earlygame that they don't need BEXP to be good immediately, thus freeing up more for guys like your normal team, especially if you don't plan on using Mordy and Lethe forever?

Speaking of Mist, if she heals on every phase from Ch9 to the end of Ch17 and max BEXP is obtained (77 turns involving combat), she gets to level 9. She's gonna need a hell of a lot of BEXP to catch up if Rolf is considered to need a lot.

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Speaking of Mist, if she heals on every phase from Ch9 to the end of Ch17 and max BEXP is obtained (77 turns involving combat), she gets to level 9. She's gonna need a hell of a lot of BEXP to catch up if Rolf is considered to need a lot.

The difference here is that we can get Mist to level 10 and Seal her and she doesn't lost that much, since her main use is healing utility. Of course her combat and defenses suffer a lot, but it's a bit different from a unit like Rolf who only provides combat.

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I don't see why Rolf shouldn't get at least some BEXP. If I'm not mistaken, several characters like Astrid and Mak are assumed to have received some BEXP and the resources are simply put on their tab for them to make up for. As an example, if BEXP was assumed to never be given out, I'm fairly certain Astrid/Mak/some others would lose to Muarim.

That said, Rolf is still pretty garbage. He's locked to player phase and his offense is lolterrible.

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Rolf's also taking away BEXP from Jill, Astrid, Makalov, and Mist.

Boyd takes away BEXP from Jill, Astrid, Makalov and Mist

Ike takes away BEXP from Jill, Astrid, Makalov and Mist

Oscar takes away BEXP from Jill, Astrid, Makalov and Mist

Soren takes way BEXP from Jill, Astrid, Makalov and Mist

...you get the idea

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And thus Boyd > Rolf. I don't see what Reikken was proving at all.

He's basically saying that Rolf won't be getting any BEXP, since it'll be put to better use elsewhere, rendering Rolf shit. I've been trying to state this in the past 2 pages as well.

Edited by Eltoshen
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And thus Boyd > Rolf. I don't see what Reikken was proving at all.

He's basically saying that Rolf won't be getting any BEXP, since it'll be put to better use elsewhere, rendering Rolf shit. I've been trying to state this in the past 2 pages as well.

You do realize that while tiering Rolf he is basically force deployed. I don't think I need to explain to you how much worse the team will be with 6 units getting ~50 extra bexp and the 7th unit being level 2.

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And thus Boyd > Rolf. I don't see what Reikken was proving at all.

He's basically saying that Rolf won't be getting any BEXP, since it'll be put to better use elsewhere, rendering Rolf shit. I've been trying to state this in the past 2 pages as well.

You do realize that while tiering Rolf he is basically force deployed. I don't think I need to explain to you how much worse the team will be with 6 units getting ~50 extra bexp and the 7th unit being level 2.

I'm confused. What does the first part of your post mean? I get the second part, but we don't even have to deploy Rolf since he isn't forced in any chapters besides the one he joins in. And he doesn't join until the chapter starts, meaning he won't have a chance to be given BEXP even if you wanted to.

And to the people who tried twisting the words in my post, it didn't work. I said "getting a Paladin/Sage/Valkyrie earlier". You can pretty much assume Titania isn't included in that list since she's already promoted.

Edited by Eltoshen
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I'm confused. What does the first part of your post mean? I get the second part, but we don't even have to deploy Rolf since he isn't forced in any chapters besides the one he joins in. And he doesn't join until the chapter starts, meaning he won't have a chance to be given BEXP even if you wanted to.

Well, we are placing Rolf on the tier list. If he isn't ever deployed, we can't place him on anything but what he does in chapter 9. To be deployed, he takes spots away from other units that could have been deployed. Assuming that cost has already been accounted for, at this point he might as well receive bexp in the chapter 11 base because otherwise he's going to be a mega detriment. And I'm not sure how many people were trying to give him bexp in chapter 9, but my calculations were assuming the chapter 11 base, since there is no point bexp him in chapter 10 because of stealth.

And to the people who tried twisting the words in my post, it didn't work. I said "getting a Paladin/Sage/Valkyrie earlier". You can pretty much assume Titania isn't included in that list since she's already promoted.

Yeah, that was interesting what happened there. Still, it's really just 50 or so bexp the other units are missing out on, unless you want to give massive dumps to some other unit. But then it's the same problem. Dumping more into Boyd than the 411 or 576 he would normally receive depending on how you look at Titania/Lethe/Mordy means less for Ike/Mist/etc. So while you could take the 500 Rolf has and give it to Boyd, that means Boyd now gets >900 instead of distributing that 500 among 7 other units, dropping back down to the ~70 bexp range. So again, he's just costing everybody else like 50 to 80 bexp depending on how you look at things.

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Or, you know, we could disregard Rolf entirely and distribute his share evenly among the other characters you plan on using.

EDIT: Excuse me, other good characters.

At the same time, let's take Rolf off the tier list entirely.

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Or, you know, we could disregard Rolf entirely and distribute his share evenly among the other characters you plan on using.

Is that ~70 bexp each really going to make the team so much better that they can do without Rolf being able to actually do not-insignificant damage on player phases?

Basically, does 6 units with 70 extra bexp each do better than 6 units with their normal bexp + Rolf at a respectable level? If so, then fine, whatever.

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Or, you know, we could disregard Rolf entirely and distribute his share evenly among the other characters you plan on using.

Is that ~70 bexp each really going to make the team so much better that they can do without Rolf being able to actually do not-insignificant damage on player phases?

Basically, does 6 units with 70 extra bexp each do better than 6 units with their normal bexp + Rolf at a respectable level? If so, then fine, whatever.

Yes, because Rolf is useless from the start. I'd like to hear something significant Rolf can do without a BEXP dump that other characters can't do better.

I would love Red Fox of Fire's idea, but then again, his place on the bottom of the tier list kinda makes me happy inside.

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I would love Red Fox of Fire's idea, but then again, his place on the bottom of the tier list kinda makes me happy inside.

Yeaaaaaahhhh

Let's just ignore Eltoshen, this kid's got issues.

Okay, now that we're done sandbagging Rolf, can he move up to top of low now

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Or, you know, we could disregard Rolf entirely and distribute his share evenly among the other characters you plan on using.

EDIT: Excuse me, other good characters.

The point is flying over your head so much that I'm getting jet lag. Or are you deliberately being obtuse?

No one is saying Rolf is a good unit. Everyone realizes he's pretty bad. However, from the countless pages of posts over the last few weeks, he doesn't quite suck as much as everyone used to think!

If we go by your reasoning, everybody under Upper Mid shouldn't be tiered at all. Because what's the use of giving them BEXP is I could "give" it to people much better than them? Soren? Ilyana? Fuck them, I can give all that to someone like Nephenee or Mist, because they're so much better!

But that doesn't work. Part of tiering characters is to see how well they do not only relative to the army, but with how much use they can get out of the resources given to them. Opportunity costs and all that, and it's why Rolf is so low in the first place.

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Is that ~70 bexp each really going to make the team so much better that they can do without Rolf being able to actually do not-insignificant damage on player phases?

Basically, does 6 units with 70 extra bexp each do better than 6 units with their normal bexp + Rolf at a respectable level? If so, then fine, whatever.

Yes, because Rolf is useless from the start. I'd like to hear something significant Rolf can do without a BEXP dump that other characters can't do better.

I would love Red Fox of Fire's idea, but then again, his place on the bottom of the tier list kinda makes me happy inside.

I don't think you quite get it. Who cares if Rolf is useless in chapter 9, or if he can't do anything significant without a bexp dump. Actually, that's my entire point. If we are going to use him, we'd better give him something. By level 7, I'd say he's a fair bit more useful than a bunch of units getting a small amount of bexp each. And considering that can happen in chapter 11 with just his fair share, and level 8 or 9 with just a little bit more, you can't say "he's useless without bexp so he shouldn't get any". That doesn't make any sense.

My question to you isn't about what Rolf can do without bexp, but that's what you talked about.

My question is if you make him level 8 or 9 for chapter 11, do you really think a Rolf at that level is less useful than a piddlesome amount of bexp going to each of the other units? We aren't even talking a full level each for them, it's like half a level. That's not superior to a unit going around causing damage on player phase and allowing other units to KO stuff they couldn't before.

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Narga, just forget him. He's not going to get it and it's obvious he's wrong. Put him on ignore or something.

but srsly

If we're done sandbagging Rolf now, figures will have to be looked at to calculate how long he sucks and whether or not he's better than lucia instantly being below average.

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lol.

@Sol: Uh...are you sure you're not misunderstanding me? But to answer everybody's question about why I'm bagging on Rolf so much: He only has 2-range, no enemy phase, and he costs you BEXP that can be given to others. Ilyana and Soren have a much easier time gaining experience from enemies since they have 1-2 range, plus staves upon promotion. Rolf doesn't have that, hence he steals BEXP since he can't do much with it. It's not like I'm trying to argue him lower than Lucia or Bastian or something, yet people keep dumping BEXP into him.

And LOL@being wrong in a debate. I'm not throwing out any wrong facts here.

Edited by Eltoshen
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and he costs you BEXP that can be given to others.

So does Boyd

and Ike

and Oscar

and Soren

and Ilyana

and Rhys

and Mist

and Gatrie

and Brom

and Kieran

...You see where I'm going with this?

I'm not throwing out any wrong facts here.

nah

You're just being a stubborn idiot on a certain point and sandbagging Rolf to the extreme [oh it's no issue if Boyd gets 300 BEXP but I'll be damned if Rolf gets entitled to 1!]

see guys this is what I mean

just stop bothering with him

Edited by Joker
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Okay, my mindset on that issue is that the characters you listed, besides Rhys and a couple others, are actually able to take full advantage of the BEXP given to them by helping out more efficiently in the long run.

Joker: Wow, throwing out insults now? And putting words in my mouth (I've never said that I'd be pumping ANY character with BEXP). Cyber-bullying at its best.

Edited by Eltoshen
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Again, simply ignoring him... Top of Low doesn't seem good. I'll give the fact that he can improve over time; however, let's see if he becomes comparable to units that are above him. I'd say Nasir and Ena are definite scratch-outs, so perhpas working from there...

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Narga, just forget him. He's not going to get it and it's obvious he's wrong.

I still wish he'd answer this question:

My question is if you make him level 8 or 9 for chapter 11, do you really think a Rolf at that level is less useful than a piddlesome amount of bexp going to each of the other units?

But I suppose he won't. I still don't see how giving ~70 bexp to a bunch of units that may not even level with it is superior to making a unit actually able to do something.

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