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Soviet/Smash Fire Emblem is Ridiculous


Narga_Rocks
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Not sure if I should be doing this or not, but I want to try my hand at being "funny".

Mist will play the voice of reason this time. () is for when she's mumbling or for actions.

5th playthrough

3-2:

Ilyana: Hi all, I come baring gifts.

Mist: (sigh) Okay, let's see what you brought this time.

Ilyana: Look a blue gem! And a wyrmslayer! And Celerity!

Mist: Okay, how about something more to sell, like a red gem or an arms scroll or a reaper card or other things?

Ilyana: The DB need stuff too, you know! They need to be able to buy stuff like short spears and steel longbows and make steel forges for units that don't really use them in part 3.

Mist: Okay, fine, whatever. Let's pretend they need all that crap. How about the speedwing and a steel axe forge Nolan no longer needs and a fire forge Tormod can't use until much later and a hammer that isn't that important in 3-12?

Ilyana: I wasn't deployed in 1-E.

Mist: (facepalm) Why?

Ilyana: Because I suck.

Mist: You what?

Ilyana: Suck.

Mist: You know you have the most reliable 2 range of any tier 1 DBer not named Micaiah, right?

Ilyana: I do?

Mist: Yep.

Ilyana: Then why do I miss all the time?

Mist: (sigh) You didn't get a thunder forge this game either, did you?

Ilyana: Thunder-wha?

Mist: Thunder forge

Ilyana: Why would I want that?

Mist: So you could hit stuff from 2 range without missing while causing more damage than most can at 2 range?

Ilyana: Oh, wow, a thunder gorge sounds cool.

Mist: Thunder FORGE!

Ilyana: Whatever. Besides, the DB can use the speedwing too, we can't send everything to you guys.

Mist: What do you mean by everything? You've brought over very little, actually. Besides, what can they do with a wing?

Ilyana: Everyone can benefit by a wing.

Mist: Well duh, but that's kinda stupid. Even I'd benefit from the wing but we aren't going to do that. What's important is where can the speedwing be put to best use for the team as a whole.

Ilyana: Look, I didn't bring it, get over it.

Mist: Ashera Icon to sell?

Ilyana: Gave it to Aran.

Mist: Why?

Ilyana: So he's not criticalled in part 3.

Mist: You know, you don't have to let him get attacked, or even use him.

Ilyana: ...

Mist: Fine, fine, how about skills?

Ilyana: The db --

Mist: I know, I know, need stuff too. Did they take it all?

Ilyana: Hey, I brought Celerity, you know, that's enough for you!

Mist: What about pass, or adept, or resolve?

Ilyana: The db --

Mist: Just go away. I'm going to talk to the other new members now.

Mist: (Guess we don't get the brave sword either, and Mordy is going to fail offensively too).

Mist: Hey Haar, how's that speedwing treating you?

Haar: What speedwing?

Mist: The one you used in 2-E so that you can ORKO more things there and here as well.

Haar: But I got it last playthrough.

Mist: And?

Haar: Well I can't get it every playthrough.

Mist: Why not?

Mist: Fine, whatever. I suppose if you don't take it at least we have one for Titania now.

Haar: But I already gave it to Soren.

Mist: You WHAT?

Haar: Soren can benefit from it too you know.

Mist: How? Double one or two things along the way in part 3 on player phase only and then cap speed like he would anyway and then the speedwing is wasted at that point?

Haar: Hey, Titania got it two playthroughs ago and Boyd 3 ago. Soren benefits too.

Mist: (I'm surrounded by idiots.)

Mist: Okay, how about the brave lance and killer weapons?

Haar: The CRK --

Mist: If you finish that sentence I'm going to stab you.

Haar: As if you could hurt me.

Mist: Okay, fine, I'll stab you in PoR with the sonic sword.

Haar: Where's your time machi-- oh, I see it.

Mist: So, what've we got?

Haar: Between me and the others we bring one arms scroll and a horseslayer and a physic and an energy drop and a shield and discipline and nullify and a wo dao and one killer lance and a hammer.

Mist: ...At least it's better than nothing. Okay, so we've got a little money but no forges from part 1 and a lot of people to equip on relatively little. Ugh. Time for supports.

Mist: So, Ike, who are you supporting?

Ike: Boyd.

Mist: Boyd?

Ike: Yes. Why?

Mist: Um, you know he'll slow you down, right?

Ike: And?

Mist: We have two earths, we also have various units with better offence than Boyd who have questionable durability without earth and any one of them would slow you down less than Boyd, and you chose him?

Ike: Your point?

Mist: I hope he at least has Adept and a killer axe and a critforge.

Ike: But that would be too much favouritism! He already has me.

Mist: (Shoot me now).

Ike: What was that?

Mist: Nothing. Okay, so who has Adept?

Ike: Soren.

Mist: (You have got to be kidding me). Okay, so a guy with no enemy phase to speak of and 20% adept thanks to the wing somebody went and gave him now has adept. Great. We can really use the one or two times he activates adept each map. Oh goody.

Ike: Hey, if it makes you feel better it's going to Ranulf when he shows up.

Mist: (I miss my runesword so bad right now) Yippee, make that 4 times in an entire map thanks to his gauge. So, where did the killer axe go?

Ike: Gatrie.

Mist: Um, he has less hit than Haar and Titania and worse bonds than Boyd, and he can take that killer lance Haar brought, why did he get it?

Ike: Well, Haar got it last time, Titania the time before that, and Boyd before that. And Oscar is taking the killer lance.

Mist: Okay, but in two chapters you'll let Boyd have it back once Gatrie gets the crown, right?

Ike: But Gatrie got the crown last time!

Mist: And he did so well with it we should do it again!!!

Ike: But we can't! Oscar can benefit from the crown too.

Mist: (I think a few people won't be getting healed next battle) Okay, fine, whatever. How about a critforge?

Ike: Well that's what I'm giving to Shinon.

Mist: So let me get this straight, thanks to the DB and CRK needing stuff too even though they don't really need it, we can only make one critforge with the money we have, and rather than give it to the guy with more enemy phase exposure, especially now thanks to giving him the Ike support, you are giving a crit forge to someone that won't even need it in two chapters with the silencer and doesn't even use it very often because he can't use it on enemy phase?

Ike: Silen-what?

Mist: His best weapon?

Ike: We can't afford that.

Mist: Why not? You know what, never mind.

Ike: I get the feeling you aren't happy with me.

Mist: (sweetly) Whatever gave you that idea? ((Let's just say not sweetly) Idiot brother, idiot brother....)

Ike: You constantly mumble when I tell you stuff and get this nasty look on your face. Sometimes I'm glad we took away your magic swords.

Mist: That was YOU?

Maybe I should call this topic "why soviet Fire Emblem" is a bad idea.

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I didn't really find that funny, it lacks subtlety. You're obviously trying to vent out frustration against Smash, and I daresay this isn't the most constructive way to do it.

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I didn't really find that funny, it lacks subtlety. You're obviously trying to vent out frustration against Smash, and I daresay this isn't the most constructive way to do it.

Obviously. I had fun typing it, and I was curious to see what kind of responses I'd get.

Oh, I'm curious, though, I know it wasn't particularly funny, nor was it meant to be. It is basically him taking a shot at one way to play and me taking a shot at another way, and that's certainly not subtle or constructive. But to be funny does something have to be subtle?

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It would be funny if it's subtle, otherwise it's just what the furries would call "dramallama". Man, I'm glad that at times I know I'm wrong, else it would seem topics like these would blow up all over the place.

Also, I thought my parts parodies of this game were unsubtle...;;>>

Speaking of which, I still got part 3 and 4 to do. Anyone interested?

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It is basically him taking a shot at one way to play and me taking a shot at another way

No, I'd say it's more comparing optimal resource usage to giving any unit consideration of a resource.

Remember, if Haar gets a benefit of 8 from a speedwing while Boyd gets 6, Haar's net benefit is only 2. A lot of the time people will disregard the cost of pinning a resource onto a single unit.

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It would be funny if it's subtle, otherwise it's just what the furries would call "dramallama". Man, I'm glad that at times I know I'm wrong, else it would seem topics like these would blow up all over the place.

If this were GF, there would already be twelve "XYZ is ridiculous" threads on the first page, and someone would have registered an account called "SovietEmblemIsPeople".

No, I'd say it's more comparing optimal resource usage to giving any unit consideration of a resource.

Remember, if Haar gets a benefit of 8 from a speedwing while Boyd gets 6, Haar's net benefit is only 2. A lot of the time people will disregard the cost of pinning a resource onto a single unit.

Vykan, remember who you are directing that towards. Please click on the linky in my signature and avail yourself of Narga's rant on opportunity cost. Thankee-sai.

EDIT: oh wow, I forgot that he was replying to you with that. haha.

Edited by Interceptor
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Speaking of which, I still got part 3 and 4 to do. Anyone interested?

Interested. I don't actually remember where your other ones are. You can repost them here if you want.

I would...If I could find them. Unfortunately, they're probably all dead topics...

WAIT! Found part 1 at least. Part 2 however seems lost in the folds of time...

Edited by Kuja
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You mean this?

Since her opportunity cost is higher than her benefit, she is a net negative. ie: Caramilk. Heck, if Gatrie is Doritos then I don't think she'd even rank as high as Junior Mints.

That logic has a major problem: Assume unit y uses resource t better than unit x. If x > y and xt > yt but x < yt then by the doritos idea unit y is better. However, when both units are treated equally, x is always better.

It's rare for x > y but xt < yt, and we can usually yield xt > yt anyway by giving x a resource more suited towards his/her needs.

Edited by Vykan12
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Since Narga has graciously allowed me to post my part 1 parody here, I will for lulz. Be warned, this post will be loaded with fail. I mean a LOT of fail. So much fail, it is mindblowing, stunning even! It may not even fit in your monitor, thus making it combust! I have warned you...Also keep in mind this is just a parody of the STORY and not the gameplay (in a way). Also note that I typed this up a long time ago, so in a way it could be out-dated. Also note finally that there might be a...Hint of bias to a certain character ;;>>

We are fans of the series. RD is mechanically a good game, but there were many flaws to go with it. Mainly the character balance, personality, and the story. So I had decided to sum up the story, starting at part 1. This is a comedic view of the story to poke fun is all. So let's not get butt-hurt about this very unserious piece of work.

Part 1: What Could Have Been Great Build-Up

Michaiah: Uh-oh, bandits!

Eddie: I'm here to help!

Leonardo: I am also here as well.

Bandits: WARGH! *dies*

Michaiah: That was close!

Eddie and Leonardo: Yep.

Jarod: CURSES! *stabs subordinate* Foiled again!

Michaiah: When will Nolan and Sothe arrive?

Eddie and Leonardo: Dunno.

Nolan: I'm here.

Michaiah: SOTHE! *spanks his ass* where've you been, bitch!?

Nolan: sleep.gif;;

Sothe: *yipes at the sudden bad touch* Uh...just...scouting for another hideout...

Michaiah: *tugs his leash to choke him* You get back when I say you get back! Goddess help you if you're late again...

The other three: o0;;

Michaiah: They found us!

Everyone else: RUN!

Michaiah: Wait, haven't shown off my hax jesus skills! *heals kid*

Townsfolk: Like, whoa!

Guards: Moldy onions!

Laura: Hey, could you guys help me get medicine to my church?

Sothe: But we're kinda on the run here, we really shouldn't be-

Michaiah: WE'RE HELPING HER! *mind scrambling banshee screams*

Sothe: GODS, fine, we'll help, just make it stop! T.T

Nolan: I count my blessings every day that I have some hint of personality, still rock, and don't have to deal with that. Life is good.

Jarod: Let them pass!

Guards: They'll kill us!

Jarod: I don't care because I'm bad! Now let them pass...*curls snidely whiplash mustache they might as well of given him* They're falling right into my trap, nyahahahahahah!

DB: *pass through without trouble*

Jarod: HAH! My trap has sprung! Now go to jail! Do not pass go! Do not collect $200! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Michaiah: *goes to jail*

Illyana: Hungry...for...script...that...doesn't make me comedy relief...

Michaiah: They didn't have to bust me up before throwing me in a prison...

Kurt: *passes blunt* This olivi grass will take your mind off it...*coughs a lungful of smoke* Just don't exhale.

Sothe: My name's Sothe, I'm here to rescue you!...Are you high?

Michaiah: High as a kite. I think that chick there has the munchies.

Aimee: Nah, she's always like that.

Kurt: *giggling* I'm so fucking baked...

Nolan: Brought the boys to help bust you out.

Eddie and Leo: Hi.

Laura: I'm here too!

Michaiah: How the hell did all of you get this far without being caught by the guards?

Guard: !

*alarm goes off, guards swarm in, radar gets jammed*

Boss of the chapter: This wing sword is the greatest weapon in the world...

*Sothe steals the discipline skill, Michaiah drops a nuke on him*

Boss: *melts like he's seen the ark of the covenant*

Laura: ARAN! *glomps*

Aran: Hi.

Sothe: That was easy.

Michaiah: *reading the discipline manual* Yes it was. *thinking* Yeah, that looks fun...Sothe won't be walking right for weeks!

Nolan: Where do we go now?

Michaiah: The desert!

Sothe: The desert!?! Are you insane!? It's called the desert of DEATH! No one has returned! EVER! It's suicide!

Michaiah: *gives him a dark look* We don't...want...to bring back the duct tape again...

Sothe: Ok, we go ;;>>

Nolan: Such a bitch, the both of them...Fucking desert.

Everyone else: *don't object at all*

Caravan: *follows them into a place with no business prospects whatsoever*

Eddie: Nolan, why do we suck?

Leonardo: I would also like to know as well.

Nolan: Well an apple a day keeps- Oh who am I kidding? Fuck you two, that's why.

Eddie: I can be good! Just let me try!

Nolan: No! It's too dangerous!

Leonardo: I can also be good as well.

Nolan: ....HAAAAAAhahahahahahaaaaa! Don't kid yourself.

Leonardo: ...

Nolan: Now you two do whatever it is when I make you not work because I do both your jobs better at the same time.

Eddie and Leo: ...*start making out furiously*

Sothe: Who the hell are you?

Aran: Aran.

Sothe: ...Ok.

Michaiah: I hear something! Or someone...

Sothe: They followed us?!

Meg: Howdy!

Michaiah: AHH!! Kill it with fire!

Sothe: Michaiah, that's rude...

Meg: I'm looking for someone, can I tag along with-

Michaiah: *smacks her, steals her equipment and fortune* NO FATTIES!

Meg: T.T

Sothe: What the fuck Michaiah! We dont steal!

Michaiah: Says the thief with a small dick...

Sothe: *shuts the fuck up*

Michaiah: Birdie hears noise!

Sothe: We shouldn't be running off every which way, we're in a dangerous situation!

Michaiah: We're following birdy.

Sothe: Ok.

Laguz bandits: WE'RE BADASS! ROAR!

The bosses: *stereotypical music plays* We are Si-A-mee-eese, if you plee-eease-

Michaiah: Everyone, be on defense!

Sothe, Nolan and Aran: Ya think?

Illyana: I'll fry 'em from a distance! *thinking* mmmm, fried tiger meat. *drools like homer simpson*

Leonardo: I'll also attack form a distance as well.

Eddie: I'll...help?

Nolan: You two aren't doing shit!

Eddie and Leo: *boihug and cry in self-pity*

*steals treasure from thieves*

Laguz bandits: WE'RE DEADZORS, ROAR!

Michaiah: Birdy, where are you!?

Sothe: I think it went off to find an actual friend, since you clearly aren't one...

Michaiah: THEN GO BACK TO IKE AND HAVE HIS BABIES YOU BITCH!

Sothe: T.T Maybe I will!

Nailah: This thing your bird?

Volug and Raphael: *passed out around her*

Sothe: Who are you?

Nailah: The only cool person in the entire part 1 besides him. *points at Volug*

Volug: *passed out, but panting like a dog*

Michaiah: We heard singing.

Nailah: Yeah, Raphael never got double teamed before and it turns out he doesn't take it too well in the backside. Damn virgin.

Volug: *grins in his sleep*

Everyone: o0;;

Nailah: Fucking prudes.

Raphael: *wakes up* Don't mind me, I'm a plot device...*shivers* ohh goddess it's wonderful...*passes out*

Nailah: See what I mean?

*later*

Volug: *licking at Nailah's feet, since she doesn't have boots*

Sothe: ...Can you make him stop doing that?

Nailah: Make me. Pfeh! That's funny, you making ME. You couldn't even make him stop yourself.

Sothe: Do you have to talk down to me like that?

Nailah: Bitches should be treated like such. *scritches behind Volug's ear* They're much happier when they know their place...*looks Sothe, head to toe, grinning* course, ya gotta break them in first...

Volug: *tail wags* X3

Sothe: o0;;

Nailah: Anyways, gonna let him be with you. I got other things to do. Found some mad tail back in town.

Sothe: ...Thanks?

Volug: *whimpers, clinging to Nailah:

Nailah: Awww, poor boy...*pets* I'll be back. Be a good boy for them and I'll use the clamps next time.

Volug: *tail wags strongly* OuO

Sothe: ...I'm gonna be sick.

*cash gets thrown at them*

Sothe: Hey, aren't those Zihark, Jill and Tauroneo?

Michaiah: Who?

Tauroneo: YAAAH! Babies! You are all BABIES!

Jill: Maggots!

Zihark: BONK!

Sothe: Nice to see you again!

Zihark: We're protecting the prince of Daien!

Sothe: Prince!?! Finally, someone we can get behind!

Michaiah: He's unimportant, let's just continue without him.

Sothe: FUCK you! We're meeting him.

Pelleas: Hi.

Izuka: Prince! There are people here! You do nothing, I'll talk to them.

Amelda: My baby boy, finally, I see you again, mweheheheh! *giggling ina clearly psychotic fashion*

Michaiah: Told you.

Sothe: Right, let's go. Come on guys.

Tauroneo: Daaaahh, dah dah dah dah dah, come sing with me!

Eddie, Leo, Illyana, Aran: Finally, we get to stick it to Begnion!

Zihark, Tauroneo and Jill: Hi, we're your replacements.

Eddie, Leo, Illyana, Aran: ...T.T

Zihark: Aran, you're cool. Come on.

Aran: ^^

Tauroneo: We make good team!

Fiona: Knights! Continue on! I'll fight them off!

Knights: Are you retarded? We're better than you and we have people rescued!

Fiona: Oh right. Ok.

Michaiah: Who are you?

Fiona: Fiona.

Sothe: ...*takes equipment and skills* You're bad and you should feel bad.

Zihark, Nolan, Tauroneo and Volug: *proceed to slaughter everyone*

Sothe: Sweet! Paragon!

Zihark: *takes it from him* HA! You wish.

Sothe: T.T...

Izuka: Let's rescue the prisoners! Poison the water supply!

Sothe: Yeah, let's kill puppies and skin them while we're at it. Then, we can tie helpless women to railroad tracks. Jackass.

Izuka: No one listens to me!

Kefka: BECAUSE YOU'RE A SUCKIER VERSION OF ME YOU HASBIN!

Sothe: Let's save the prisoners!

Tormod: Hai guys, what's going on in here?

Muarim: Wtfpwn!

Vika: *smoking olivi grass* Don't mind me, I'm on my way to page 10, hur hur hur.

*prisoners rescued quest completed*

Sothe: We got news they're executing prisoners in a swamp!

Izuka: Fuck 'em!

Sothe: for once I agree, this is an obvious trap.

Michaiah: Let's go save them! Tra la la! *skips off*

Sothe: *slits wrists*

Michaiah: We'll rescue you prisoners!

Rafael: It's a trap!

*soldiers appear*

Sothe: WHAT did I tell you!?!

Muarim: Lol, noobs.

Nailah: Oh for fucks sakes, you people are PITIFUL! Come on Volug, let's show these bitches how it's done.

Volug: *humps leg*

Nailah: No no, fighting! We're fighting! ...We'll take care of that later.

Raphael: *licks*

Volug: *licks*

Michaiah: There's so much she can teach us...

Sothe: No there isn't!

*prisoners rescued, gain 10 points*

Pelleas: You guys are the greatest! *everyone ignoring him, the meal more important* Uh...Hello?

Michaiah: Everyone's asleep. I wonder why, as I look up at the NIGHT sky.

Jarod: We drugged them! Now prepare to die!

Black Knight: *appears with plot device powder* Any smart villain would have just poisoned them and be done with it.

Jarod: Dammit! Why didn't I think of that!?

Black Knight: Because you fail. *Eclipse'd*

Jarod: ...I'm alive?

Jarod's anonymous friend: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Senator Hitler looking guy: Quell the rebellion now, or the people who don't already like us in begnion will not like us in begnion!

Jarod: Yeah, why didn't I think of that? You're a fucking genius senator. *grumbles*

Michaiah: We're here to stop you!

Jarod: Stop me? Why? NO ONE LIKES YOU OR YOUR BITCH PRINCE!

Michaiah: We're the hope of the people-

Jarod: WHO DON'T LIKE YOU! I'm two steps away from being a dudley do-right villain and I have 3 authority stars! I am somehow more liked than you will EVER be!

Michaiah: *shuts the fuck up*

Black Knight: I will go and-

Nailah: Too late.

Jarod: HOW DID YOU-

Nailah: *Savage rape*

Jarod: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Michaiah: We saved Daien!

Pelleas: And I am finally king!

Everyone in Daien: WHATEVER! *continues living anyways*

End part 1.

Soon to come...

Part 2: Cool, but Pointless

tl;dr, I'm not funny

No criticism needed for the obvious not trying to write well here.

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You mean this?

No, Vykan, I clearly meant the other quote. The thread where smash says that Nephenee can't visit houses because she gets 3-4HKO'ed, is undoubtedly the greatest opportunity cost analysis of all time. I printed it out, folded it into a tri-corner pirate hat, and am currently wearing it as I type this.

That logic has a major problem: Assume unit y uses resource t better than unit x. If x > y and xt > yt but x < yt then by the doritos idea unit y is better. However, when both units are treated equally, x is always better.

Your example has a major problem, since Boyd's net benefit with a Speedwing is not even on the same planet as Haar's with the same. It would take some seriously tortured logic to have your made-up numbers match a realistic situation with those two.

WRT to the logic as you've portrayed it, see below:

It's rare for x > y but xt < yt, and we can usually yield xt > yt anyway by giving x a resource more suited towards his/her needs.

Funny how this "rare" condition is basically Mia's situation in a nutshell. What a coincidence, that this topic and the other are both about her, eh?

EDIT: forgot to finish my thought. It's also not so easy to do that second thing, aka give "x" something more suited to their needs. Something more suited does not always 1) exist, or 2) have anywhere near the same footprint on efficient completion. Adept is an excellent example of this situation.

Edited by Interceptor
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It is basically him taking a shot at one way to play and me taking a shot at another way

No, I'd say it's more comparing optimal resource usage to giving any unit consideration of a resource.

Remember, if Haar gets a benefit of 8 from a speedwing while Boyd gets 6, Haar's net benefit is only 2. A lot of the time people will disregard the cost of pinning a resource onto a single unit.

So having the speedwing on Haar basically has the cost of not giving it to someone else. Assuming two speedwings from 1-E and 2-3 and given to Haar and Titania, we have their gains vs. the best gains from the next best person. Generally the next best person will only be doubling what Haar already doubles, and neither of them will be doubling additional things. Giving it to Haar means one less unit doubles stuff with ~17 speed but one more unit doubles stuff with up to 19 speed. The impact of the cost is dependent on how much we value an extra unit doubling generals and mages vs. an extra unit doubling paladins and eventually halbs and warriors and snipers as well. If we value the latter significantly more than the former, the cost is negligible. If we value the former equally to the latter, the cost is no longer minor, and if we value the former more than the latter, the cost is too high for Haar to reasonably get it. I just figure we don't need Boyd and Haar to have 20/21 speed and would rather Boyd have his 18/19 and Haar have 22/23.

You mean this?

Since her opportunity cost is higher than her benefit, she is a net negative. ie: Caramilk. Heck, if Gatrie is Doritos then I don't think she'd even rank as high as Junior Mints.

That logic has a major problem: Assume unit y uses resource t better than unit x. If x > y and xt > yt but x < yt then by the doritos idea unit y is better. However, when both units are treated equally, x is always better.

It's rare for x > y but xt < yt, and we can usually yield xt > yt anyway by giving x a resource more suited towards his/her needs.

The main idea behind doritos isn't just who uses something better, but what's best for the team.

It's more

xt + y vs. x + yt.

Which one yields a better team?

Even if

xt < yt

it doesn't always mean xt + y < x + yt.

As for the problem where y gets bumped above x if y gets the resource, obviously we need to find something else x can use to see what happens.

You say: we can usually yield xt > yt anyway by giving x a resource more suited towards his/her needs.

(more like resource u and xu > yt, but whatever)

And I agree we should try. In the Titania v. Mia comparisons, I tried giving her stuff. Give her a speedwing, she loses overall. Sure, she wins for some of part 3, but not against everything and not all the time. Try to give her an earth support (in addition to the wing), suddenly she's either lugging around Oscar and he's getting attacked or she's holding back for Ike in some chapters and holding him back in others. And she's still doing worse against those 20 speed enemies before she gets to 24 and ditto the 21 speed enemies pre 25 and the 22 speed enemies before promotion. Give her adept, and that's only 23% then 24 and 25 whereas Mia is pulling 51%. Give her a killer axe, she does less damage when she doesn't crit and Mia throws a 70% proc against whatever Titania gets, which will be under 50%, especially if the killer axe isn't strong enough to 2HKO. Give her a critforge, she does more damage when she doesn't crit or adept but her proc rate may be even lower. And she'll still do less damage when she doesn't proc than when Mia does.

It is in fact why I argued for Titania > Gatrie, since him with the crown basically loses overall to her with the wing and Oscar support, at least if you can find ways to prevent Oscar getting attacked too often because of his lack of offence. And the cost is that Oscar misses out on a +mt support, and that's a pretty big cost but I still think Titania > Gatrie might be okay, but I'm not sure.

I've also tried giving Janaff an energy drop, multiple times, in fact. He's simply got a higher cost for taking that drop than Mia has for taking what she takes, so this is again back to smash's idea that all "favouritism" is created equal when he made a post about involving giving Janaff a drop simply because we gave Mia a bunch of stuff. He's the one not looking at the opportunity cost of assigning resources. Also, Janaff's still not going to overcome his other issues.

Basically, if you can find some low cost resource to give to another unit, or even a high cost one if the gains are enough, and make unit x > unit y by finding the right combination of resources without hurting the team as a whole, then x > y is valid. Otherwise, y > x, even if when sent to fight with nothing x > y. It's because of what y can do for a playthrough when attempting to optimize the team. Considering we are trying to be efficient, wouldn't the unit that makes most efficient use of something get a lot of consideration for that?

Maybe it wasn't very subtle, but I found it funny.

While I find parts of Kuja's post funny, I hope this comment is about my post, so at least one person would find my post funny. Since your post is almost at the same time as Kuja's post, I have some hope.

Oh, and I'm wondering if Kuja should have posted his thing in a new topic where it might get read by more people, since I think everyone is about done with my topic and may have missed his post anyway since Mekkah's was almost immediately after.

Edited by Narga_Rocks
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Mist: You know you have the most reliable 2 range of any tier 1 DBer not named Micaiah, right?

I was going to make a snarky comment and link to TVtropes, but I've been looking for the trope for an hour and now I'm just pissed that I've wasted an hour looking for the trope.

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Mist: You know you have the most reliable 2 range of any tier 1 DBer not named Micaiah, right?

I was going to make a snarky comment and link to TVtropes, but I've been looking for the trope for an hour and now I'm just pissed that I've wasted an hour looking for the trope.

Can you tell us what the trope was about?

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It's not as if I'm saying that she's great or anything. You have plenty of slots in 1-E, and there are a fair number of potential items to ship over to the GMs. The speedwing is just one of many. The other items are various things that could be helping your other characters during the chapter that they'll no longer need in part 3. It's basically saying there is no good reason not to deploy her, since she can even help out since you still have lots of characters that don't ORKO and she'll chip away enough for them to KO and do it from a safe distance with much more reliable hit% than Nolan or Jill with a hand axe. Even Zihark has bad 2 range thanks to wind edge and low luck and enemy stars. She's got two things going for her here, which should be enough for anyone to see that deploying her will not make 1-E harder than it is with another unit deployed in her place.

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I probably shouldn't do this, but oh well:

No, Vykan, I clearly meant the other quote. The thread where smash says that Nephenee can't visit houses because she gets 3-4HKO'ed, is undoubtedly the greatest opportunity cost analysis of all time. I printed it out, folded it into a tri-corner pirate hat, and am currently wearing it as I type this.

Nappa: "VEGETA! What does the scouter say about his sarcasm level?"

Vegeta: "IT'S OVER --"

Mist: Finish that sentence and I'm not healing you either.

And I can picture insane laughter going along with the pirate hat thing.

uh, what level do you have Ilyana at for 1-E?

It doesn't really matter. At base level she has 12 skill and 6 luck and if you level her she has a 160% hit growth.

12 x 2 + 6 + 105 = 135 hit.

Zihark with a wind edge has:

22 x 2 + 11 + 60 = 115 hit. Also he has a 190% hit growth, but is 11 levels higher than her so if he gets a level or two then she can get even more levels.

Enemies mostly have no more than 40 avo until 1-E. Even in 1-E she's mostly pulling 80 listed at base level (enemies between 50 and 60). 92.2% true hit. She'll miss like once in the entire chapter on average. Compared to your other units' 2 range, that's rather reliable.

Sure, Micky and Leo can achieve similar levels of reliability, in fact micky's should be 15 to 25 hit higher. That's why I always say discounting Micky.

Ilyana also has 20 mt with the thunder forge at base, and a 50% magic growth (and crit, though only ~12/13 if you don't boost the forge, so max 5% after luck, min 0% depending on enemy). A level 15 Leo should have 23 more hit than base Ilyana, but if you leveled Leo you could easily level Ilyana, and even a Level 17 Ilyana has 8 more hit than she had before, so now it's 88 listed for 97.24% true hit. Any idea how many playthroughs you'd need to do before Ilyana is likely to miss? I figure she'll miss once total in 4 playthroughs combined or something silly like that. So the fact Leo has an actual 100% with a max hit steel bow forge and Ilyana doesn't get 100% is kinda minor. Then consider he no longer needs that forge in part 3 thanks to Lugh and since you can send his forge to Shinon to save money now there's even less reason not to deploy Ilyana in 1-E.

And she's doing 12 to 16 damage on most things. Level 15 Leo has 12.4 + 2 + 15 ~= 29 mt assuming A support with someone not Micaiah. 11 to 18 damage on most. Level 17 Ilyana is pulling 22.5 mt, so even going with 22 she now does 14 to 18 damage. In other words, she tops or ties Leo on all non-mage/priest enemies.

So yeah, better hit at 2 range than units like Nolan/Jill/Edward/Zihark/Aran/(Meg/Fiona) and at least as much damage as the only tier 1 non-Micaiah unit that actually tops her in hit, and on some enemies more damage.

I think my point about Ilyana in 1-E is valid.

Edited by Narga_Rocks
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uh, what level do you have Ilyana at for 1-E?

It doesn't really matter. At base level she has 12 skill and 6 luck and if you level her she has a 160% hit growth.

12 x 2 + 6 + 105 = 135 hit.

Zihark with a wind edge has:

22 x 2 + 11 + 60 = 115 hit. Also he has a 190% hit growth, but is 11 levels higher than her so if he gets a level or two then she can get even more levels.

Of course, this ignores that you're giving Ilyana a maxed Hit Thunder Tome, which costs 3080 gold for 40 uses for only 3 might. To get attack on it, you're upping the cost to 5280 gold. Between gold and gems from chests/convos, combined with selling Fortune and Discipline, you get about 39k gold. Additionally, Zihark can use Paragon and Ilyana can't. Ilyana is probably getting 2 levels before we get Paragon, Zihark maybe gets half a level.

You also ignore that Zihark can use Adept and Ilyana can't, that Zihark has higher hit, that Zihark doubles the entire map whereas Ilyana is being doubled by most.

Also, we only have 4 open slots in 1-8. We can't field Jill, but Laura, Zihark, and Nolan are practically a given.

Laura heals.

Zihark is the only DB regular that can double all the bandits 100% of the time, even Volug fails to double a lot of them, Nailah has to stay at her starting area to kill the reinforcements and protect the villagers,

Nolan can OHKO the mages and has lolearth.

which means Ilyana has to compete with Aran, Leo, and Edward for a spot, which isn't very useful since Aran can OHKO the Mages with forged Iron or the Silver, while Edward doubles for the 2HKO (or Brave to avoid a counter). So Ilyana is third string on chapters just to get EXP.

Which means that Ilyana potentially has to sit a chapter out completely.

Enemies mostly have no more than 40 avo until 1-E. Even in 1-E she's mostly pulling 80 listed at base level (enemies between 50 and 60). 92.2% true hit. She'll miss like once in the entire chapter on average. Compared to your other units' 2 range, that's rather reliable.

Ilyana also has 20 mt with the thunder forge at base, and a 50% magic growth (and crit, though only ~12/13 if you don't boost the forge, so max 5% after luck, min 0% depending on enemy). A level 15 Leo should have 23 more hit than base Ilyana, but if you leveled Leo you could easily level Ilyana, and even a Level 17 Ilyana has 8 more hit than she had before, so now it's 88 listed for 97.24% true hit.

Except that other units have 1 range weapons that one round lolpriests and lolmages, which means they only have to worry about archers, but if Ilyana is countering them she's actually being OHKO'd by them at base level (including the ones with a longbow that are attacking from up ledges), in addition to being OHKO'd by armors, 2HKO'd and borderline doubled by Soldiers, meaning the only enemy she can be attacked by ever without running the risk of instantly dying are Mages (which 2HKO anyway), which she 4HKOs. Oh yeah, and did I mention their hit on her is better than her hit on them?

Which means base Ilyana's durability is slightly worse than Fiona in 1-E, since if I screw up I can sacrifice with Rescue, but Ilyana's Con is too weak to even do that.

Forging crit onto the tome ups its costs by 88/352/792/1672/2200 gold, depending on how much you forge, and since we're already paying 5280 to max its attack/hit, this is pretty expensive. This is 231 gold per attack, and Ilyana is 2HKOing at best with a ~16-17% chance to crit.

Any idea how many playthroughs you'd need to do before Ilyana is likely to miss? I figure she'll miss once total in 4 playthroughs combined or something silly like that. So the fact Leo has an actual 100% with a max hit steel bow forge and Ilyana doesn't get 100% is kinda minor. Then consider he no longer needs that forge in part 3 thanks to Lugh and since you can send his forge to Shinon to save money now there's even less reason not to deploy Ilyana in 1-E.

And she's doing 12 to 16 damage on most things. Level 15 Leo has 12.4 + 2 + 15 ~= 29 mt assuming A support with someone not Micaiah. 11 to 18 damage on most. Level 17 Ilyana is pulling 22.5 mt, so even going with 22 she now does 14 to 18 damage. In other words, she tops or ties Leo on all non-mage/priest enemies.

The problem here is that this damage difference is never going to matter. They tie vs. Fighters, Leo wins vs. Myrms (both leave enemy in finish 'im range), Leo wins vs. Soldiers (both should leave them in kill range), Leo wins vs. Archers (slight disadvantage in that Ilyana doesn't take a counter). Leo wins by a large amount vs. Mages and Priests, but this still doesn't matter because Nolan/Aran are still borderline OHKOing, so any amount of damage will be enough to let them finish it, and the rest of the units that will be reasonably used can double them.

This leaves Armors. Ilyana does 15 damage, leaving them with 21-22HP and 17 Defense. Leo does 12 damage, leaving them with 24-25HP.

Micaiah just thanilols, Volug and Zihark double with about 30 attack, which kills both, and doesn't prevent a counter for Ilyana. Jill and Nolan both need a Hammer to kill, and Aran/Edward fall short. Nailah and Burger King still kill.

We then run into the issue that Leo's attack boosts affinity, so a choice unit gets more attack to compensate for any slight loss from Leo's damage, such as boosting Nolan/Aran's attack to OHKOing Mage status.

So yeah, better hit at 2 range than units like Nolan/Jill/Edward/Zihark/Aran/(Meg/Fiona) and at least as much damage as the only tier 1 non-Micaiah unit that actually tops her in hit, and on some enemies more damage.

I think my point about Ilyana in 1-E is valid.

Not really.

But Leo can't attack at melee, you say. Surely this must matter. True, it should. And against most other units it would. Except that Ilyana's durability is so bad that if she's left open to 1 range attacks, there's a very real chance that she will die.

At this point, the fact that Ilyana has 25HP/5 Defense with 15AS (rounding up from 0.5 for the Defense and AS, which means that even if she levels up in the chapter, these stats won't really improve) doesn't help. Fighters have 29-30 attack, Myrms have 19-20AS. Soldiers 2HKO, the one with a Steel Great OHKOs. The Steel Longbow Archer OHKOs, and other Archers leave her with 2HP, meaning if they have Gap advantage, they kill. Armors OHKO at 1 range, 2HKO at 2 range. Jarod OHKOs. Mages 3HKO, meaning they can easily finish her off if she's taken a 2 range hit or barely hung on from a 1 range hit. The Wind Edge Myrm borderline doubles and 2HKOs at 2 range. The poison from the Venin Axe Fighters, should they attack her, if she isn't Restored ASAP, one of those attacks that she barely survives otherwise will leave her low enough to die from poison.

Meaning that Ilyana's enemy phase is effectively as worthless as Leo's.

We then run into the issue that we only have 9 slots open in 1-E, excluding Micaiah/Sothe/Volug.

Laura, Nailah, BK, Nolan, Rafiel, and Zihark are practically given, which leaves us 3 slots.

Tormod is superior to Ilyana in every way, and since Ilyana is garbage in Part 3 and beyond, they effectively do the same thing.

This means Ilyana has to fight Vika, Muarim, Aran, Jill, Edward, and Leonardo for 2 slots.

So like I said.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OverlyNarrowSuperlative

Edited by Paperblade
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